Just out of curiousity, is anyone actually going to go out and blow money on a game they'll have to pay a monthly fee for, or are they just going to wait for the evercrack equivalent? I understand how neat it would be to play with all your friends, but if you have to pay for friends, maybe those friends aren't worth having.
I guess I kinda respected the work and business ethic of blizzard, having a continuously high price for a game (the neglect in price drop for such games like diablo II), but in the same breath, having free online servers to meet up with your friends.
I dunno? Any nay sayers with me?

__________________

Sheesh, Most MMORPGs are 10-15 sollars a month. How cheap can ya' get? I think it'll be well worth it.

__________________

I don't, but then again that's my opinion. I think that blizzard software did a fine job of proving that free online play is more than well worth it. Which I made prior in my first post.

And pardon me, but let's look at the breakdown of this. I'm going to presume you have a lot of money to play with. Now, let's imagine for a minute you're paying your own way for a secondary education at a private institute that costs, oh let's say $30,000 US dollars every year for tuition and expenses. Let's just put our imaginations beyond a coded screen and look at some data on the national minimum wage for all workers

"According to Current Population Survery estimates for 2002, some 72.7 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.6 percent of all wage and salary workers. Of those paid by the hour, about 570,000 were reported earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage, and another 1.6 million were reported with wages below the minimum. Together, these 2.2 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 3.0 percent of all hourly-paid workers. The following are some highlights from the 2002 data.

-Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and slightly more than one-fourth were age 16-19. Among teenagers, 10 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. However, among those age 65 and over, the proportion was about 5 percent" (U.S. Department of Labor).

Now this being said, I'm going to maybe fathom at some point that these software companies, who's target audience is between early teens to the threshold of mid twenties.

Now let's delve a little deeper, here's an awesome concept called "expenses." These things can range from car insurance payments, to car payments, medical bills, and cost of utilities. Plus your basic hygene supplies (especialy for those years between 18 - 25 where you're paying for those things for college or whatever secondary education you should choose).

Ah yes, isn't it supposed to be every student's full time job to be just that? A student? So, a forty hour work week doing studies plus 35 hours to make some money to pay off those expenses.
Let's try some simple math here...
35 Hours a week x $5.15 an hour = $180.25 weekly pay (before taxes, S.S. etc.)
So maybe ....
180.25 x 4 weeks pay = $721.00 (still without taking what the govt. wants)
I'm pretty sure anyone holding a job in the U.S. or otherwise realizes a governmental institution funds itself based on a number of liens called taxes...now we take this off here in the States every april 15th.
Now you want to tell me taking a $180.00 less the yearly average untaxed pay of which, minus that equals to: $8472.00
With that, you're not living from paycheck to paycheck, you're existing, and all because some company wants to ca$h in on the matrix experience?
I guess my point in all this if that makes me cheap based on my principles and how I look at the value of a dollar, then call me cheap all you want, tool.

__________________

Snake,

I liked how you introduced an economical discussion into this thread, so I figured I'd pose my own question.

First off, would you work for free? I know I wouldn't. In case you know nothing about MMP's, I'll explain a little about the level of involvement the developers take when they release a new title. Massilve Multiplayer games regularly receive additional gameplay content in the form of patches. This content doesn't make itself. A team of programers must write the code for whatever it is they plan to implement into the game. While this is happening, another team in the art department works on creating what the player will see (e.g. guns, buildings, clothing). It takes time to do all of this, and time is money.

Now, the online games you've probably played (you mentioned DII) have user-hosted servers. At best, these servers can only host around a dozen players. In Massive Multiplayer games, thousands of people can login to the same place and play. I don't know what you pay for your monthly ISP, but you should multiply that by 1,000 (rough estimate, probably more) because that's how much it would cost to consume all of the bandwith you would need per month. I don't understand your comments about Blizzard's "work ethic". Obviously you haven't heard of their new Massive Multiplayer title coming out, World of Warcraft. They're planning on having a subscription fee for this game.

There are many MMP's out now. Guess what? Each one has it's following and communitiy, made entirely of people who gladly pay their $12.95 a month to play. Use the college education you say you're earning and research things a little more before you come up with an opinion.

ghost

If the Wachowski's asked me to work with them on creating such an playing experience? I'd say yes anytime. Pay or no pay. But that's beyond the point here. Personally I feel very little for paying the monthly subscription. I feel very little for paying the monthly subscription. But maybe eventually they'll stop making new chronicles, and it'll be free to play...

__________________

As long as we'll be able to login to the game servers we'll have to pay.

ghost

You're kinda stuck on Blizzard having free servers for their games...well guess what bro...hate to burst your bubble..but Blizzard is releasing World of Warcraft...an MMORPG...and get this....*gasp Its gonna have a monthly fee to play...

Well praise jesus, our savior...
In response to ghost's question: yes, I would, and yes I have. If you'd really like to see a few copies of my latest times slips, I can certainly give them to you. It's called having an intrinsic value on your job. However you are right, but answer me this question, how did software companies get by in the past? I'm sure half-life, quake II, and other numerous titles not under some pay to play server had to have all those things (concept, planning, commercializing, pre-production, post-production, shipping, product cost, production cost). Hate to burst your bubble, but that's all done in figuring out the price of the game itself. Software companies aren't stupid, they want to make sure they get their money's worth, becasue if that were indeed true, then I'm guessing everyone would be completely broke and there'd be a board for all the game designers to cry there. I think your argument of saying monthly payments justify a person's job is invalidated. If you want to act like your better than some "college educated fool" then try to make your argument a little clearer, stop begging the question, and oh yeah, stop making appeals to someone's emotion, they're cheaper versions arguments. Yeah, truly I'm glad you applauded the economical factor, but I've also noticed no one stands against it.

I also forgot to factor in something else here, time management. I'd like to think it'd have a lot to do with how people spend their time and/or money. I know there's going to be some creepy little bastard that goes "0MG BRO WHAT ABOUT CELL PH0NES! I KNOW I HAVE ONE AND DON'T USE IT LOL!!!1!!11" Right, cell phones seem to be in everybody's pocket, we pay a set ammount every month, but then again it just doesn't sit on my computer, it servers more than one purpose, kind of like a necessity. I argue from the standpoint that it seems almost impossible to get anywhere in an MMORPG or any RPG that requires a lot of time should one be consumed by making ends meet or studies or even both. If your'e hammering out 55+ hours a week on other things, are you really gonna take time out of your sleep schedule or other things that may be pertinent to your time to make sure you justify 12 - 20 bucks a month? I have a slight feeling in the pit of my stomach that the game industry wins this one, the players don't. Not to mention the slight fact that some of the younger audiences that can't even hold a job, yet are given allowances (if that), beg mommy and daddy to pay this every month (but then again if they're established and the kid is spoiled, so be it right?).

Now, understandably so, there are some of those out there that have a good job and are established financially, so yes, if they can pay it, all the more applaus to them, but since no one touched the fact that most (not all mind you) adolescants hold sucky low end paying jobs and probably are holding one in the first place so they can go to their high school dances and pay bills they have coming in.

As far as my admiring qualities toward blizzard, I openly stated the fact that they hold a higher price for a game longer than anyone else probably pays for the costs of the "maintenencing." You can't honestly tell me some online thing like SOE, a division of the multi-billion dollar corporation Sony Entertainment, ltd., can't afford to pay a handful of techs to do their job on occaision. Because if they charged a higher price and kept it there, but if it was free. I personally be more enticed to that option than paying every month. And sure, you can say its cheap for 10 bucks a month or even up to 20, but add that to your bills, and start playing some others, like "puckman187" so coherently illustrated "World of Warcraft." There's another set ammount, and how long before everything is pay to play that we end up spending the cost of a console to play? Or maybe...perhaps they'll subsidize that cost into one big online server company (Xbox Live!, SOE, take your pick) and offer cheaper rates to play it? Perhaps we should just jump from subscription subscription.

I keep pondering how long I'm going to stand alone on this...what happened to the users that showed some discontent to it, like DonutDude (or seemed to...), and Remix (these people get honorable mention because I didnt' see any others yet that agree.

Well d00d, puckman187, that's a cute name, I'd hate to burst your bubble, but the days of "bro" (because I ain't your's) and the affiliation with 187 died out with the 90's and the movie that had Samuel L. Jackson in it, if you'd like to go back to making sure my pizza is hot and on time, please do so, and when you want to add a more coherent argument like say someone like HomoUniversalis did, try it, your text fodder does no good here, as obviously the clarity in your vision lacked the understanding perspective of what was going on, tool.

__________________

To be honest, I don't have a mobile phone! There are three reasons why I don't:

1. I need it*
2. It may cause braincancer
3. Echelon can track the phone

*It's only for people who don't need it.

I'm the only one in my class if not the school who doesn't own a mobile phone. They don't seem to realise the problem with these things. Not only can I hack into them with a laptop another phone and sofware avaible through Kazaa, so can the FBI NSA CIA etc.. All agencies who would die for this information.

Not to mention it costs you money, lots of it. I'm one of the only kids who doesn't have a job. And I'm fine with it. I don't need no boss telling me what to do, yet.

The fact is that the youth is being exploited by the software companies, by the hardware companies, etc. They are making money when wallstreet is down. They will continue to make money because it's "normal" to pay monthly subscriptions. I for one am not sure whether I want to sacrifice the time for a job to those ends, while I could be playing other, in the long run, much less expensive games. I will probably buy the game and play through the trial.. But I'm not sure after that. Not unless someone starts a fundraiser...

__________________

Snake, you aren't understanding me. Mods and hot-fix patches are completely different than content additions players receive in MMP games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a one time buy only receives drastic changes to it's gameplay when you buy an expansion. Take Planetside, a game I often bring up, for example. Since the game was released, we've gotten six new vehicles, three new guns, and numerous new continents to wage war over. This new content wasn't in the process of being created until after the game was released, with the exception of the concept art.

There are two completely different online gaming worlds nowdays. I think this thread is a great example of those who understand Massive Multiplay and those who don't. I don't like to quote myself, but do some research before you make yourself look like a fool to those of us who're familiar with MMP titles. Basically, the entire arguement comes down to a simple question. Are you going to pay or not? Nobody is going to put a gun to your head and take the money out of your wallet. I personally could care less either way, but I abhore people who feel it's their duty to slam something because they don't like the way it is, even though many many other people do. If you chose not to buy it, then move along.....this isn't the message board you're looking for.

ghost