People often talk about Jesus making a great sacrifice for humanity by letting himself be killed (or perhaps God allowing his son to be killed) so that all of humanity would be free from sin and be allowed into heaven. Now of course this is a good consequence of Jesus' sacrifice, perhaps the greatest consequence of any action in human history (assuming the Bible is true). However, this did not require a great sacrifice on Jesus' part. Anyone would have done the same thing had they been in Jesus' sandals. Here are the elements of this sacrifice:

1. Jesus knows that through his death all those who accept him as the savior and ask for forgiveness for their sins will be accepted into heaven and be given eternal bliss. One main reason that this is not a large sacrifice is because Jesus knows the consequences of his actions. There is no faith or risk invovled for Jesus because he has direct knowledge of God and no need for faith. He knows there is a heaven and that people will go there should he allow himself to die. Compare this sacrifice to that of Martin Luther King Jr who sacrificed his time, effort, and put his life at risk in order to improve the lives of his race. He didn't know whether or now he'd be successful or what the consequences of his actions were so it required a great degree of faith to make such a stand against racism. While he believed in an afterlife which could compensate him for his acts, he again had to have faith that there was an afterlife as opposed to Jesus who knew that he would rule in heaven for all eternity. Which brings me to my next point...

2. Jesus realizes that the few days he spends suffering on the Cross are infintesimal compared to the eternal bliss of heaven and the satisfaction of being the savior of humanity. How much of a sacrifice can dieing be when the reward is so great? Again, because Jesus knows that there is a God (and that he is his son) and because Jesus has performed miracles, it is not a matter of faith or belief but that of knowledge. Jesus knows that he will go to heaven upon his death and therefore this life takes little meaning when compared with the prospect of infinite hapiness in the presence of God. Therefore, when Jesus weighs the infinite hapiness of human souls against his own mortal discomfort for a period of days, he comes to the obvious conclusion that it is better to die than to live. Anyone would make this dicision if they had direct knowledge of God and understood the ramifications of their actions. Again, lets compare this to the sacrifice of Abraham (to borrow a page from Kierkegaard's philosophy). Abraham's actions were in direct contrast with the promise given to him by God that through Issac he would be the Patriach of many nations. Abraham had faith enough to decide that his action was the right one even though every ounce of reason and love in him would have fought this feeling tooth and nail. Jesus had no such conflict as he knew what would occur when he died and he knew that it was worth his small sacrifice.

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That's a pretty interesting read there, Helios. I don't get in on the Godtalks much, though, so all I'm gonna say is, "Hmmmmm...." That, and:

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Jesus' sacrifice went far beyond mortal pain. I agree, anyone would probably die so that everyone could have eternal life, but Jesus' death was much more painful than anyone else dying. The night he was captured, he even asked the Father if there was any other way.
Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. This is the only reason the sacrifice worked. If he was only man, he could only have died for one person- one life for another. But because he was divine, he could die for all men. He chose to use his divinity in this way, even though he didn't have to. He was mocked while hanging on the cross; they said that if he really was the son of God, he would prove it by getting himself down. And although he could have, he chose not to.
The other reason this was so painful is because Jesus was perfect and sinless. This is the only way for such a sacrifice to work. Also, when he died, he bore the sins of the entire world. This perfect man took the blame for so much sin that his own father turned his face away from him. This is why his death was so terrible, and why it is no big deal for him to ask for us to simply accept this gift he has given and to give him our lives.

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Ah, connotations and value claims are fun!

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Are you fucking kidding me with this thread?

No, I'm not....JC really did have dreads....SO SHAKE 'EM! I ain't got none but I'm plannin on growin some, imagine all the Hebrews goin' dumb, dancin on toppa chariots and turnin tight ones, tell me when to go....duuuuuuuuuumb!!!!

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I just wanted to put out that Jesus was human. He faced his death with the fear that you and i would face our's. He didn't just die of starvation like they say. New evidence suggest that they nailed him right below the hands and whever he let himself hang, he was not able to breath. So eventually he lost the strength to hold himself up and he died of strangulation. Oh an Clapapotamus...wtf is up with that. It has virtually nothing to do with this thread.

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One thing that has always been on my mind as I'm sure has everybodys is Whats Real? What I mean is I can't truely believe anything because there is more then one belief.

Some Scientists believe man started with ape. Therefore evolving over time into what we are today. Others believe the bible and think God created man along with the earth and everything in it. However I'm one who is slowly turning toward the evolution belief because its got more solid evidance behind it and it all makes sense.

I mean if God did create the earth then where did the other planets come from? Did he create those too or are there other Gods creating planets all over space? Why didn't he just make a planet with nothing else surrounding it? These are all questions that have come to mind when I think of God creating man. Plus the only evidance we have of God being real is the Bible... a book. Science however has proven that man might have if not did evolve from apes millions of years ago. Theres rock hard evidance like bones that show similiar features in the skull like what we have today. Plus a whole lot more that truely has me believing that man wasn't created by God but evolution.

Try watching the Discovery channel you'll understand a lot more of what I'm talking about. (maybe God created ape which in turn lead to man. lmao)

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That's not strangulation, dude. That's when someone physically holds your neck with something to cut blood to your brain. Most of the time, the windpipe holds its shape, and it all depends on how you hold the throat. Nobody was on the cross hanging onto his neck saying "You fuckin eat it, Jesus!!"

What you're referring to is suffocation, and death by asphyxiation, which is deprivation of oxygen.

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I know Clappapotamus has virtually nothing to do with this thread, but it'll be there every time until I change it, which will be soon, because it is my custom user title.

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