This is an extension of the "Is there a God thread"

To all christians I say I am utterly ashamed of what your religion has become. Evangelicals using the religion as a political tool for the ideals made by their pastors and uptight snobs thinking they're high and mighty because they're christian. To that I say BULLSHIT! Was Jesus a conservative jerk who told people how to live their lives like many christians now are? NO! He was the ultimate liberal, he broke down the walls of society to make people see the error of their ways. If Jesus were to live here today, you know what he would be? He'd be one of those radical muslims, but he'd destroy the pentagon with a raised hand and a thought rather than an airplane! He'd bring down the leaders who put up things like the patriot act by giving the wealth accumulated by the government to everyone, not as a communist act, but as a way of getting the government out of their collective thrones to be able to tell them how hypocritical they are. And such may be in apocolypse because we, the people of the world, can't get up off our butts to do anything about things that are unjust.

The Bhuddists had the right idea about being at peace with nature, but their religious higher-ups did nothing but teach and sit in fields while communism gripped their country.

And don't get me started on Muslims, these people are in an extension of the state that Christianity is in right now, these people converge and destroy lives because of a GODDAMN CARTOON!

Whatever happened to WWJD?

Think about what the dude would actually have done in your situation before you start wars and kill people in the name of God. Do you think God wants you to kill people? Hey Muslims, do you think that Allah WANTS you to kill people? NO! HE DOESN'T! It's you Allah's ashamed of when you do something like blow up a building with a plane full of people. It's you God's ashamed of when you kill innocent civilians for no reason other than "they looked dangerous". Don't worry about me though, I'm ashamed of you all.

*panting slows down* Sorry about the yelling... any questions class?

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No, Jesus would not be a radical Muslim. He didn't kill innocent people, He forgave them, even when they nailed Him to the Cross! Jesus only got angry at the Temple because it had become something it was not supposed to be. The Temple was to be a holy place, not a den of thieves. He did radically change society (Christianity radically changed the whole world), I'll grant you that. I don't know what He would do with the Pentagon, though. Countries have a right to defend themselves, but I do not know what top-secret projects might be going on there and so do not know how the Pentagon would be treated by Him. Jesus would not act like Allah or Mohammad (sp?) would by wiping out His (His being Jesus') enemies (including the Pentagon, maybe); instead, He would open His arms wide, say "You are forgiven. Come to Me," and try to bring that person to Him. That's the difference between the radical (not whole body of--some Muslims are among the kindest people on the Earth [trust me on this]) Islam and Christianity.



We Christians do not have the right to command anyone how to live his or her life, only suggest how to do so in accordance with the teachings of Jesus.





No, Jesus was not the ultimate liberal. You cannot put on Him a label, be it liberal or conservative. In a sense He was both.

I am a Christian and, as my father is, a conservative. I prefer to base my ideals on politics (though I am not yet old enough to vote) in my religion.
Jesus would have taught a man to fish, instead of treating him like a dog by giving him a fish everyday and making him a prisoner of His generosity. He gave the man dignity by teaching him how to fish, and avoid having to have everything given to him in his life. Yes, Jesus also preached charity and taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, but as recent history has shown, political organizations have seen how they can "imprison" (for lack of a better word) people by promising them the world through higher taxes, etc., just to gain power for themselves. The so-called "high and mighty" conservatives (note I did not say, Republicans because there are many Republicans who feel it's a good idea to buy votes the same way Democrats do, and vice versa) are trying to restore the virtue of taking responsibility for one's life and are running into obstacles from those who have been feeding from the trough of the government.



I concur.

The biggest failures in practicing the faith, yes, are Christians. God still forgives them. God is a God of love, not hatred.

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... boy are you in blind faith. Can't you take logic as well as the philosophical teachings of the Bible?

Well, when Jesus was nailed to the cross, don't you think that God might've been a bit P.O.ed about it? Don't you think that, even though he forgives those who kills, he is at the same time ashamed of the action and the result of the action? Sure, God may forgive people for their responsibility in sinful actions, but that doesn't change the fact that that action still happened.

Also, you're wrong about Jesus not being the ultimate liberal, think about what the man did through out his lifetime, he broke down social barriers by continuing work done by God in the old testament i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah, and all the events relating to the eventual freedom of the Hebrews from slavery by the Egyptians. Look what God did, he left society in ruins in order to make the point that no one being or group of beings is any kind of ultimate power. Jesus did the same, he showed the common man that the Roman empire was not almighty; through his actions of healing and miracles he gained a following which the Roman empire saw as a threat and it could've been had Jesus lived, but he didn't, he was killed. But the message still remained that the Romans didn't have the power to hold control over such a large amount of people forever.

encyclopedia.com defines liberalism as: philosophy or movement that has as its aim the development of individual freedom.

Is that not what Jesus did? Repeatedly?

encyclopedia.com also defines conservatism as: the desire to maintain, or conserve, the existing order.

If Jesus had both liberal and conservative views it would be to conserve the existing order that God made man and that they must show thanks for that action without petty distractions such as control or war to gain it.

I guess that my message in this is, just because someone forgives you for something doesn't mean it's okay to do it again later on and then be forgiven for it again.

Do you think God likes to come down here to teach us a lesson every time we forget that we're here on his time? No, I don't think he does, and forgiving every sin over and over is just like giving a dog a treat. God is expected to forgive everything because he said he would in hopes that sin would eventually go away, but it actually continues its existence. I know, I've foresworn mainstream religions in favor of my own individual beliefs, and believe me, I'm a better person because of it.

BTW, I never said that I care between republicans and democrats, hypocrits are hypocrits no matter if they're republican, democrat, green, or independant.

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However God felt about Jesus being nailed to the Cross, it was in His great master plan. Jesus, Who was sinless, had to take on all of our sins and have His blood shed to be our sacrifice.


Ah, but in human terms this will be corrupted by sin. This will lead to anarchy. Unless you talk about freedom from sin, in which case it's a whole different ball park.


Yes. The action happens. But you are forgiven for it.


Jesus had to die on the Cross and be resurrected three days later (Easter). If Jesus hadn't been crucified, Christianity would be meaningless. But, since he was crucified, it is not meaningless.


If He were to come down to Earth today, He would not side with any political party. He wanted us to be free; that's why we have free will (call it what you will). However, with this freedom comes responsibility. For instance:
You are not free to walk into a crowded theater and yell "fire" (unless there really is one). Here's the difference:
-A liberal would say: "Yeah, music videos are great. There should be no limits, aired all the day, regardless of content. They don't hurt anyone."
-A conservative would say: "You have the freedom to make whatever kind of video you want, but bear in mind that what you make has the potential to hurt someone."
Yes, it's an example. You surely can see the relevance. Which one do you think Jesus would agree with?

We're going to sin. It's a given. War and greed are results of that sinfulness that we're ingrained with. Jesus wanted to conserve the House of God and His forgiveness. He wanted to conserve our fellowship with Him and our places in Heaven. But we have to believe in order to get that.


That's right. The Bible says that (see below). Faith without actions is dead.


I'm sorry, but no. The reason sin exists is because of our sinful nature, which comes from the original sin in the Garden of Eden. God forgives us because He loves us. The Bible says that it God's forgiveness is not an excuse to continue on sinning. Look it up.

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I give up, you obviously like to be ignorant of any belief but your own. Such is the Christian/Catholic way.

If you're wondering why I'm giving up on this debate, it's because you defaced anarchy to a demonic religion when in fact it is an extension of human freedoms. I suggest you watch the movie "The Anarchist Cookbook" to see that Anarchy, just as religion and society has its own good and bad sides.

With that I take my leave of you.

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Not true, Skitto. I am not ignorant. I have examined other belief systems. However, being a Christian, one must realize that you can't have it both (or however many) ways. You must follow the teachings of God.


Wiktionary defines anarchy as:


Anarchy is a total absence of order. If anarchists have a societal structure, then that would be some sort of hierarchy, common standard and/or cohesive principle, no? There is no law. Therefore, according to the laws (rather, the lack thereof) murder and other sins are all right. If anyone knows the Bible, Satan introduced evil. Satan tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and sin was brought into the world. It will be human nature (not to mention the Law of Entropy) that the anarchist state will deteriorate into total chaos and a moral wasteland.

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As I have mentionned before, I was raised Catholic. Through personal experience and research this has changed. I believe in God, however I do not believe in organized religion. For too many reasons to list here, however one lies in the preceding quote. "you MUST follow the teachings of God".

If you aren't ignorant Snoopy, then you would know that there are many teachings of God...by many different religions. Pray tell, why is yours right while others are wrong? I have no problem with you practicing your faith...I am a firm believer in freedom of choice, religion, speech...I just think it's ignorant to say christianity is the be all end all, the right way...

I personally think everyone must choose their own path. I don't believe your beliefs are wrong, I do believe they are wrong for me. I keep it simple. I say live and let live. Or if you prefer "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

I was raised with what I consider to be a high standard of morals. I follow my heart and my instincts. I am happy and at peace...I don't need to go to church to do that. If you would consider all of the above and still think I am going to hell because I don't worship your god, your way, then I would have to call you a fool.



Here's a definition from Wikipedia that I prefer:
* In Anarchism, Anarchy refers to

1. a desired form of human interrelationship based upon voluntary cooperation without coercion or control of others
2. a social organization modelled to accomplish this dynamic (see anarchist communities)

Anarchy does not necessitate a complete lack or order. It's more so a state of natural law. Why is this desirable?

Lord (John Emerich Edward Dalberg) Acton said it best:

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Peace, Snoopy.

There are many ideas and theories on theology, and I believe that everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. I also believe that the majority of the Christian faith is bullshit. I am no expert theologian, but one must ask how is it that so many "different" faiths can have so many identical ideas. Christianity and its extensions, Islam and its derivitaves, etc etc. Look at the Christian Church, it has one of the highest profit margins in the world. How can anyone claim that is fair? Taking money away from those who need it, to put goose feathers in the popes pillow. Every human is unique, we all have a contribution to make to the world, whether it is locolised to our friends and family, or extended out to reach across international borders. Why do we fight wars? When all one must do is watch a rose bloom to understand that there is not one good outcome from a war, there is no victory, lives will be lost, animals killed, bulding destroyed and for what? More money to fill Bush's back pocket? More buying power for America's military? So that we humans can research and invent better, faster ways to kill each other? Love those around you, farm the land so that our children may have food to eat. Save water so that life can be sustained on our planet. What is the greatest achievement for mankind? We invented fighter jets that are sold for $2b US dollars. $2b dollars would feed around 66.6 million families in Africa for 3 months. Imagine what an entire airforce could feed? Shame on your Religion, and your Ideals, if they do not actively help those who need it... And do not even dare to suggest that the Church does this!

Skitto, I ask you to get off your soap box for a moment and look around you. That was an extreme generalization, so extreme it's painful. Yes, some parts of the church are corrupt; some churches are greedy, some preach tolerance and then bash gays. However, in no way, are all churches corrupt.

That would be like saying every forum you come to is full of idiotic spammers that roam freely, gnawing on the board's resource. That would be like saying every school is poor, overcrowded, and full of violence. That would be like saying every person you meet has a knife in their belt and they want to stab you with it.

Many churches and many Catholics and Christians are morale, genorous people. Many Muslims want peace and friendliness between neighbors. Many Jews do not mind the other denominations that stem from its past because they all worship the most important thing of all: God.

Problem is, our lovely media likes to only really show off the negative things. Sex scandal? Ooh, let's show the people! Some church raised $120,000 for its fellow parishes. Eh... who cares? Let's put the sex scandal up! And while we're at it, let's ditch that piece about the daily life of a Muslim and show the riots! It's all negative; the people will love it!



God doesn't get "P.O.ed", Skitto. He is not a violent god. He loves us all; THAT is why Jesus died on the cross. He knew it was coming, but He loved His children so much that He gave His only Son for us, that we might go to heaven and be with Him.

Please, if you're going to try and bring up something biblical, first make sure you've actually read it, or at least know the story. It saves everyone a little time, and it makes you look more knowledgeable when you're saying how you feel.

On the aspect of money... many churches do contribute to food kitchens, to coat drives, to missions, to programs that help the homeless, and so on. Yes, there is the Annual Catholic Appeal, but that money goes to helping churches who need the money for things like repairs and their own programs.

In any religion, in any government, even in any school you are going to find people who divert the cash flow for their own benefit. It's the corruption of the individuals in power, though, not the corruption of the common citizen. The majority of people, when they think the cause is sufficient and good, will help. It's the minority that doesn't, and that is where problems occur.

Again, not all churches, synagogues, mosques and other religious institutions are corrupt. So please don’t generalize, because there are good people out there, and there are good churches that are willing to help the needy with no pay in return.