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Freddy Krueger
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:31 AM #16

i agree with reddfoxx

choising the red pill to believe in god is a stupid thing to say

i am catholic. but i don't realy believe there is a god or satan, i do think there is something. but not 1 all powerfull being that made everything.
why doesn't he show himself them ?

well on-topic again

you don't got evidence to say that when you pick the red pil that you choise for god.
in away your saying then, if people would choise the blue pill. they would choise for the devil.

the machine's in the movie where never intended to reflect satan. the machine's are just programs to stop people from hacking into the matrix and freeing people

have you watched the Animatrix ? watch the second renaisance part 1 and 2 again. the humans made the machine to do there dirty work (were they where too lazy to do them selfs)
but after a wile the human started miss treating the machine's. making them look like slave's

and when 1 finaly dared to protect himself and stand up for himself (oke he killed his master, because he wanted to live himself) and they destroyed him

when others wanted that humans and machines live and worked together. the goverment trew it out of the window.
they founded that the machine's aren't anything else then slave's for there use

so the machine's made there own city, and tryed to be friends with the humans but again they refused
then when the economy of the humans whent down. and the machine's whent up. they attacked the machine's

the humans started the war.
but the machine's had evolved way beyond that of what humans could make. and won

the machine's angry of what the humans did to them, made them there slave's and because the humans blocked the sun. they where used as a power suply

--------------

so in a way the humans were the bad one's. the machine's only wanted a place for them self. and to be not used as slave's.
but as we all know. humans can't accept living with a life form as smart or smarter then them
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toymachine970
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Old 09-20-2004, 07:24 PM #17

see, if the directors really were trying to say this then why did they put the devil as blue as god as red?
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:58 AM #18

Very good post, Mouse. Very good post. I agree. I am not exactly a Christian. I follow the Ten Commandments, do things that I know are right, and believe in a heaven and a hell. Also, that Jesus died for me.

"That makes you a Christian." You may say.

Not quite, I cuss. I have premarital sex. I believe in killing someone if the cause is just, i.e. eye for an eye.

As for the red pill..

It can lead you to other things.

Just as everyone has their own God, it may not necessarily be the same for the next person.

But.. The red pill, is what you make it.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:53 PM #19

:eek: my head... i think im sick.. I read what StirThePot sais and... are you sure... why do you think that books are the key of the freedom... this is my opinion: the movie is a signal... we have to discover the true... we are really slaves... but... i dont know... slaves of what... or who...
Im looking for answers... im studing Des Cartes,Socrates, Platon... and... day to day i feel i can see new wrong things...
When I was a child i have unanswered questions... like: its red what i see.. or just i imagine that...
Then... my point is... i dont know what is my point ... just... if somebody know something ... a piece of the true please... help my cause...
we have to free our mine, may be reading that two books... may be in other ways... the important is... lets make contact together... lets find the true...
·If you wish it... it wont be a dream.·
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neoizcool
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:09 PM #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppenwolfe
Very good post, Mouse. Very good post. I agree. I am not exactly a Christian. I follow the Ten Commandments, do things that I know are right, and believe in a heaven and a hell. Also, that Jesus died for me.

"That makes you a Christian." You may say.

Not quite, I cuss. I have premarital sex. I believe in killing someone if the cause is just, i.e. eye for an eye.

As for the red pill..

It can lead you to other things.

Just as everyone has their own God, it may not necessarily be the same for the next person.

But.. The red pill, is what you make it.

If this doesn't seem like it relates to Matrix, bear with me. It'll get there.

Steppenwolfe, you said that you are not quite a Christian because you have premarital sex, you cuss, and you believe in killing someone if the cause is just.
First of all, God believes in killing someone if the cause is just. In the old testament it says cursed is the man who is not willing to defend his family.
In war, if you are in that war to protect your family and your homeland, then you are justified in killing people. You are not justified if someone kills a loved one, and you kill them just to take revenge. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.
And please don't anyone mention the Iraq war and whether or not it is just. I don't want to get into a political debate here.
Anyways, secondly, you are still a Christian if you have premarital sex and cuss. You are still a Christian if you murder. If you kill. If you rape or incest.
In Romans it says "that if you confess with your mouth jesus is lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Those are the basic criteria for salvation, and it says nothing about sinning certain sins cancelling that out. so, even though premarital sex and cussing are sins, they do not cancel your being a christian.
I sometimes cuss. I have impure thoughts about women. I lie. I take the name of the lord in vain.
But I am a Christian anyways.
All this to say, you said, the red pill is what you make it.
In a way this is true.
But in a way it is not.
God, or the red pill, is the same for everybody. Morpheus probably gives that choice to everybody whose mind he frees, and they all must choose between red and blue.
Red=God
Blue=No God.
Notice I didn't say devil. Just a lack of god.
But, what, really, is lack of light?
Darkness.
The machines may not have started out bad guys, but maybe they became bad guys. After all, when humans and machines went into all-out war against one another, did the machines even try to make peace?
No.
You could say that they are logical, and can't feel.
But 001 felt. That is his name, right?
You could also argue that the machines thought the humans would never change their minds.
It is a possiblity, but like I was saying....
Red pill=God
Blue pill=No God
Red pill=Light
Blue pill=lack of light?
And what is lack of light if not darkness?
What is darkness if not the opposite of light?
And if god is light......

Free your minds.

-neoizcool
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:19 PM #21

lol... that what I think.. the oposite of every thing is the reason for by alive, ying-yang... the good exist because the bad is trying to be the one...
it cant exist slaves if nobody is free... then... if we are slaves...somebody have to be free... if somebody is free... why we cannot be free?... we have to find the answer... we have to get free...
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:48 PM #22

Hi Fellas!!
Chill Guys..... What if the rabbit hole is much deeper than it seems or doesnt seems to be. Maybe the seperation created by the the "Red Pill... " is just a layer of an entier system.
What I mean is we are living in this so called MATRIX. Now assumably we are so called "governed" by the so called "Machines"[cause everythin that happens, just happens, as the choices have already been made]. What if those "Machines" are are actually Humans like us, satisfying there needs or maybe testing us or maybe playing with us who knows.
Another debatable point can be what if the Machines[Humans] governing us are themselves governed by another MATRIX. What I am trying to say is MATRIX inside a MATRIX.
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Old 10-21-2004, 07:58 PM #23

... The first time I sew matrix 2 I was the same idea... twe matrix, one inside of other matrix, but... I dont think soo... dont go soo deeper... just... think this: we are governed by machines or humans, i dont care who is my master just... I WANT TO BE FREE!!!...
then... who knows some way for free our mines?
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Old 10-22-2004, 04:35 AM #24

This sounds rather similar to the principle of many East Asian religions, particularly Daoism. You cannot have "good" without "evil" there to define what isn't good. You cannot have a door without a doorway. You cannot have a bowl without the empty space inside the bowl that allows it to be filled. You cannot have the light without the dark. You cannot have law without lawlessness, or order without chaos. You cannot have peace without war there to define what peace is not. You cannot have existence without inexistence. You cannot have freedom without slavery. There cannot be a question without an answer (or lack of an answer, if you really wanna stay true to the Dao principle).

I suppose what I'm trying to do is just give some more food for thought, as well as give such mind-stimulating meals of information that are relevant to the current flow of the discussion.

Either that, or I have clearly gone even MORE insane than I already am/was. (You can't have sanity without insanity!)

Whatever the case, I hope I offered something useful or, at least, thought-provoking.
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Teen: I am the Two.
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Teen: I am the Two.
Neo: Goddammit, you moron; you're NOT affiliated with me! There is NO 'Two'! Just 'The One', get it?!
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Teen: I am the Two...?
Neo: GAH...!!!
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:46 PM #25

still, no one has answered my question, if the red and blue pill have to do with the devil and jesus, then why is it that the blue pill is the devil and the red pill is jesus, wouldnt it be the other way around, this is why i dsagree with this theory because i am one of those people ho look at the evidence and follow that.,...
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:25 PM #26

WOW... whait men... Im not agree with that theory... ist just be a christian who want to be a good christian men and study the matrix... we cannot mix the religion and the filosophy of the matrix... im jew but I get away of my religion for search the true... if we are talking of the true, slaves, dogmathism... we canīt be a slaves of a religion... somebody tell to you what is good and what is bad... and... may be ... he or its is who are deceiting us...
My filosophy teacher gift me a cuple of books of Des Cartes : Methodic speech and Metaphysical meditations (metodologia del discurso / meditaciones