Sadams capture

HomoUniversalis

Osama Bin laden was on a daily dialisys, which means he has to spend about 3 hours aday on an a machine with two needles plugged inside him. I won't mention, though, that Bin Laden had a phone conversation two months before with president Bush and the terrorsits wo commited these attacks were under Bush's protection.

DNA? My ass! It was clear and obvious bull ****. Give me your arm, I'll do a DNA test that shows that you are Bush!

Poverty ratings in the USA are only low compared to northern Africa. Don't start pointing Europe at me, mister. I have seen the statistics. Imagine what would happen if the USA turned those finances from SF diagram into health care (which is VERY bad in the USA, we get almost FREE healthcare in Europe, even if you are not insured!!!).

Bums are better of in the US. OMG! You either need a shrink and a reality test, or you should relook the statistics! You have got to be kidding me. I'm not even goin to argue that one, find that out yourself!

Sadam Hussein is a poor man manipulated by Europe, Russia and the USA. It's too bad seeing a man like that fall for the crimes of Bush sr, and his predecesors.

I leave it to the judge to prove whether he is guilty and what the punishment should be, and unless you are in the international court (if you are, you shouldn't be talking about it!) I think you should stop judgin this man. He has rights too.

Matthew 7:1,

Homo Universalis

PS since no one is looking them up:

Matthew 7:1=Judge not, that ye be not judged

ThereIsNoMatrix

I'm not going to argue with you on the Homeless situation, as I haven't seen statistics on that in years. Also I don't really mind the parody - humor always helps.

Sadam Hussein is a poor man manipulated by Europe, Russia and the USA. It's too bad seeing a man like that fall for the crimes of Bush sr, and his predecesors.

You can honestly call Saddam a "poor man", having sympathy for him? After looking on the net for five minutes, this is an excerpt of some of the things Saddam has done:

- Arrest of hundreds of Iraqi Islamic activists and the execution of five religious leaders in 1974 as chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council.

-The execution of 21 Ba’ath Party leaders in 1979 in Iraq.

-Unprovoked attack on Iran in 1980.

-The arrest, torture, and execution of Ayatollah Mohamad baqir Al Sadr and his sister Amina Al in 1980.

-During the Iran-Iraq war Hussein used chemical weapons and summarily executed thousands of Iranian prisoners of war.

-The arrest of 90 members of the Al Hakim family and the execution of 16 members of that family in 1983.

-During the Anfal campaign Hussein used chemical weapons on Kurdish cities including Halabja in 1988, in which as many as 5,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

-1990 invasion of Kuwait.

-Forced deportation of Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern Iraq displacing of 900,000.

- Entire populations of Marsh Arab and Shi'a Arab villages have been forcibly expelled. Government forces have burned their houses and fields, and demolished houses with bulldozers. Thousands of civilians were summarily executed.

-Assassination of opposition figures outside Iraq such Hardan Al Tikriti, former Defense Minister, in Kuwait in 1973; Haj Sahal Al Salman in UAE in 1981; Sami Mahdi and Ni'ma Mohamad in Pakistan in 1987; Sayed Mahdi Al Hakim in Sudan in 1988; and Shaikh Talib Al Suhail in Lebanon in 1994.

I think this is more than enough to take away any rights he may be entitled to as a human being. Also, have you seen any of the videos of him killing/torturing Iraqi civilians? Talk about inhumane...

Malak

Originally posted by ThereIsNoMatrix
I'm not going to argue with you on the Homeless situation, as I haven't seen statistics on that in years. Also I don't really mind the parody - humor always helps.

You can honestly call Saddam a "poor man", having sympathy for him? After looking on the net for five minutes, this is an excerpt of some of the things Saddam has done:

- Arrest of hundreds of Iraqi Islamic activists and the execution of five religious leaders in 1974 as chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council.

-The execution of 21 Ba’ath Party leaders in 1979 in Iraq.

-Unprovoked attack on Iran in 1980.

-The arrest, torture, and execution of Ayatollah Mohamad baqir Al Sadr and his sister Amina Al in 1980.

-During the Iran-Iraq war Hussein used chemical weapons and summarily executed thousands of Iranian prisoners of war.

-The arrest of 90 members of the Al Hakim family and the execution of 16 members of that family in 1983.

-During the Anfal campaign Hussein used chemical weapons on Kurdish cities including Halabja in 1988, in which as many as 5,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

-1990 invasion of Kuwait.

-Forced deportation of Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern Iraq displacing of 900,000.

- Entire populations of Marsh Arab and Shi'a Arab villages have been forcibly expelled. Government forces have burned their houses and fields, and demolished houses with bulldozers. Thousands of civilians were summarily executed.

-Assassination of opposition figures outside Iraq such Hardan Al Tikriti, former Defense Minister, in Kuwait in 1973; Haj Sahal Al Salman in UAE in 1981; Sami Mahdi and Ni'ma Mohamad in Pakistan in 1987; Sayed Mahdi Al Hakim in Sudan in 1988; and Shaikh Talib Al Suhail in Lebanon in 1994.

I think this is more than enough to take away any rights he may be entitled to as a human being. Also, have you seen any of the videos of him killing/torturing Iraqi civilians? Talk about inhumane... Wow. You hit that on the head with an xtra large sledgehammer, hold the mayo! Poverty is only high in the BIG cities, like NYC, Chicago, Detroit, ect. I think on about every corner in London theres about a family of hobos. I bet if London bridge really did fall down, Londons population would fall about 3 million ppl. Now seriously, Bush is a really good guy, he wouldn't do this kind of thing! And to say he's a Christian man, he would never, and i repeat, NEVER do anything like what Homo Universalis is saying. Please. If you want to make fun of a country, FOR GODS SAKE AT LEAST MAKE FUN OF IRAQ!

Yakov

http://5ms.com/saddam.jpg

Ou Be Low hoo

Originally posted by stalin6025
this is a parody over a serious matter. i dont see why you are laughing, or why you would of posted such a thing.

Smile and the whole world smiles with you.

Wind your neck in and we will ALL be much happier.

What's next from you kids? Ban Dr Strangelove? Nope? Ahh...you probably haven't had time to watch it, what with all the play FInding Nemo has been having on your dvd player!

Parody is the best way of deflating the power of any person...they end up becoming a caricature of themselves.

colourmeblind

Id just like to make note of the fact that stalin6025 was right, this is serious.

Share with us your parody if you must, but atleast make it half intelligent and give us your serious opinion on the matter aswell, this is not funny, i see no humor in war, or in death, or in the fact that saddam bears a vague resemblance to a childs excuse to recieve unnesscessary material gifts.

supaman

Homo....I'll add to what ThereisNoMatrix and Malak posted.

And watch CNN sometimes for at least some kind of proof.
I can't believe this:

"Sadam Hussein is a poor man manipulated by Europe, Russia and the USA. It's too bad seeing a man like that fall for the crimes of Bush sr, and his predecesors. "

That is totally disgusting......cuz u my friend are deranged and need to see a shrink, not me.

Gee.....let's c......he lavishly made 5 freeking huge palaces from the money that should be going back into servicing the country.
Not to mention him and his ******ed family that took everything that they wanted by force.....with no value to human life!!

And no one is making fun of the war here, except the tyrant that deserves it. Not only should he be humiliated, but I hope the Iraqi ppl give him an eye for an eye justice for what's he done through out his ruling over the years.

HomoUniversalis

At least we know one thing for sure, Bush sr does not have stocks in major corporations selling the weapons to the us army. Right? Cause that would make the US president a bit less objective, right?

Supaman, I'm done with you in this discussion. If you think I need a shrink, that's ok. But I'm not even going to argue these facts, I pity you for being one of your governments mindless slaves (please don't even argue that, your arguments tell me enough).

Malak, I'm not saying he is a nice guy, I'm saying he is a poor man I was clearly misunderstood and will therefore elaborate.

This man has been put on his "throne" and kept their by Russia, Europe and the USA. The weapons of mass-destruction he might have had, he bought from France or other European coutries, Russia or the USA.
Than, when he raised the oilprices to build his fifth palace the US had enough and they invaded (gulf war) and invaded (recent war)again.

He was a puppet, and that's why I thought he was a poor man.

Malak don't give me a crime list, or I'll pull up a fat file on the USA so big, I'll need three posts due to the message length.

Matthew 7:12,

HomoUniversalis

Neo Of Matrix

we must be i nthe right way about this topic .....

Saddam Hussin was a gr8 decitator , yes ofcourse , and presedent Bush is a war criminal !!!! yes he is ......

when you accupate a whole country and the hall world is refuse this so u r a real war criminal .....

when u kill almost 5000 iraqi civilians so u r a war criminal ....

when u give food by a plane and the next plane through the mother of bombs over u so u r a war criminal .......

when u through a racemose over the heads of the civilians so u r a real f***** war criminal .....

when u fool ur ppl and give them lies about the no. of the real soliders who died and still dying there so u r a war criminal ........

now i can see that we must litigate Bush and sue him when we want to make a court for Saddam , this is a real straightforwardness .........

Ou Be Low hoo

Originally posted by Jetfire
I want Bin Laden dead more than Saddam. I hate them both, but what Bin Laden done was horrible.

...and this is coming from an ex-mod! Genius! Very insightful! May your deep-thinking and profound world-view long influence all who come into contact with you!

~SF~

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
...and this is coming from an ex-mod! Genius! Very insightful! May your deep-thinking and profound world-view long influence all who come into contact with you!

hey, Ou Be... I didn't like the attitude you have... but this time I agree. That was nonsense...

Freddy Krueger

Originally posted by Yakov
http://5ms.com/saddam.jpg

lol hahahaha thats a good one

Malak

Originally posted by Neo Of Matrix
we must be i nthe right way about this topic .....

Saddam Hussin was a gr8 decitator , yes ofcourse , and presedent Bush is a war criminal !!!! yes he is ......

when you accupate a whole country and the hall world is refuse this so u r a real war criminal .....

when u kill almost 5000 iraqi civilians so u r a war criminal ....

when u give food by a plane and the next plane through the mother of bombs over u so u r a war criminal .......

when u through a racemose over the heads of the civilians so u r a real f***** war criminal .....

when u fool ur ppl and give them lies about the no. of the real soliders who died and still dying there so u r a war criminal ........

now i can see that we must litigate Bush and sue him when we want to make a court for Saddam , this is a real straightforwardness ......... Good God guys, this moron thinks Bush Jr. is a war criminal and Saddam a good dictator... lats tell tell this weirdo a bit about dictatorship. I know i havent been around the block for a while, but i know enough about dictatorship (seeing that i have been studying it for about 2 years) and Bush hasnt had his army kill even half of that 5000 iraqi civilians! Saddam killed more than 5 times that amount! Please... if you knew anything about dictators you'd know that they are ALL, yes ALL evil! My goodness...

in memory of funky_horror, smith_fan, and CraHan

Neo Of Matrix

Originally posted by Malak
Good God guys, this moron thinks Bush Jr. is a war criminal and Saddam a good dictator.

behave your words littel dude , i didnt say that Saddam is good dictator , i didnt say it at all , may be you r blind to see what i wrote or you dont know how to read english words !!!!

and why you trying to compare between Bush and Saddam by who is killed more ??? they both killed an innocent ppl , and they both did a war crimes againest civilians , so judgement day must be for both of them .......

thats my opinion with all do respect for other opinions ( not for unbehavior opinions ofcourse )

Jetfire

Originally posted by ~SF~
hey, Ou Be... I didn't like the attitude you have... but this time I agree. That was nonsense...

I don't think my post was nonsense....

Malak

ok you said he was a 'gr8 dictator' and Bush has killed no innocent people, the armed forces there has, and they have probably killed about 5 innocents, most of them were those iraqis dedecated to Saddam. and you would only say that Bush is a war criminal if you are anti-American like Osama! i wouldnt be surprised if you WERE osama!

in memory of funky_horror, smith_fan, and CraHan

Ou Be Low hoo

Originally posted by Malak
ok you said he was a 'gr8 dictator' and Bush has killed no innocent people, the armed forces there has, and they have probably killed about 5 innocents, most of them were those iraqis dedecated to Saddam. and you would only say that Bush is a war criminal if you are anti-American like Osama! i wouldnt be surprised if you WERE osama!

in memory of funky_horror, smith_fan, and CraHan

HOW OLD ARE YOU? 12? 11?

The level of your understanding is beyond amusement...I pity the future fate of your country when this is an example of the youth that is rising!

'BUSH HAS KILLED NO INNOCENT PEOPLE, THE ARMED FORCES THERE HAS' - ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

You're obviously not a chess player!

Bush ILLEGALLY invaded Iraq! The international community(The UN) was against it...I'm sorry, I can't do this...you are too stupid, too stupid by far.

Please hurry up and leave.

Yakov

Please don't flame :)

stalin6025

we should calm down a little. let people believe whatever they please (even if they think that saddam was a "g8 dictator" grrr.) bush is no better than saddam, and no dictator is good, or "g8"..
bush is a ignorant pig, that needs to go back to school, instead of following in his own ignorant fathers footsteps.

if no one has read the book "STUPID WHITE MEN AND OTHER SORRY EXCUSES FOR THE NATION, by MICHEAL MOORE" then i suggest you all do, extremly interesting and humerous book.

(a pole should be created over who hates bush, but then again that would only create more flaming...)

Reason

homouniversalis im glad you see the light as i do..

Lieutenant_Ryan

Ace is down, Joker to follow.

Freddy Krueger

hehehhehee bush sucks. i hate him, i'm glad he isn't my president

bush may not killed people himself. but he order others to kill

Lieutenant_Ryan

Want to see one of these crimes?

View next link:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

A wounded Iraqi being executed by brave U.S. Marines.

Ou Be Low hoo

Stupid White Men is fun, but Moore has his own agenda just as Bush does.

Obviously, I like Moore 'moore', but the moogle of the book, entitled 'Bowling for Columbine' showed that he is easily tempted into sensationalists rants to please the crowd.

Neo Of Matrix

Originally posted by Malak
ok you said he was a 'gr8 dictator' and Bush has killed no innocent people

if you realy understand my words like everyone here understand it ( except stalin ) you will see that i mean with this 2 words ( gr8 dictator ) that Saddam with a BIG , BLOODY , CRUEL DICTATOR = GR8 DICTATOR .........

so plz dont misunderstand me again and try have my point of view , is that clear for ypu now ???????

HomoUniversalis

Well, so much for ancient egyptian society...

Anyway, it seems to me like this is becoming a shout forum about whether or not Bush is evil or not. I am aware that I played a part in this, but I would appreciate it if we got back on-topic:

Sadam Hussein.

Did they capture Santa Clause, one of Sadam's "backups" or was it really sadam?

And please if you do post, do not use c u, gr8. Or anything similar. It's not English, just lazy and very annoying to read, and is more appropriate in a chatroom, not in a board where we discuss ethical, philosofical and political issues.

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

supaman

Homo....well in that case I'll have the last words since you can't put up w/ somone else's views!!

I'd rather be a FREE government mindless slave here in US than get shot point blank for speaking my mind or even against the government/president/ruler in Iraq or similar other countries.
Please get a better arguement.

Neo Of Matrix,
THIS is after all a forum in ENGISH and maybe one day u'll make sense out of your posts!! And ppl will therefore interepret your thoughts differently!

Lt Ryan,
That video is obviously edited to make it seem more futile than it possibly maybe. How do u know that "civilian" wasn't a rebel fighting back and got what he deserved. On the other hand.....I do acknowledge the arrogance of that US solider.

HomoUniversalis

Supaman you have just confirmed your ignorance, yet again I will let it slip and explain the error of your ways, hoping you will better yourself.

If that person (who got shot) just shot every comrade, but than got shot in the leg and was disabled from combat, the soldier in question must treat him as one of his own soldiers and treat him with medical supplies.

If he does otherwise he is disobeying the laws made by the UN. This soldier is not only arrogant, he is not obeying international laws, he is a war-criminal!

The people of Iraq want the USA to leave. The military of Sadam Hussein (who is still leader of Iraq, as the US attacked the souvereignity of Iraq, and is therefore illegal) is attacking the USA's forces. Their response is slaughter of entire villages. More and more iraqi kids die each day, because the US soldiers thought it was funny to shoot at a wall.

I was never trying to convince you, supaman, since you are clearly a product of an ongoing-campaign against the US citizens, I pity you for that, even for your illusion of freedom.

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

PS. Your English isn't very clear to read either, so please don't comment on that of others. At least I try to make as little spelling errors as possible.

Freddy Krueger

man that sucked. stupid american soldiers. thinking it's cool too kill a wounded (un)armed men.

the soldiers of america are just the same as the iraqi soldiers, ANIMALS !!! shoot first, shoot some more, shoot again, and mabey if you don't forget ask a few quistion later.

i'm not sure if it is the real saddam they captured, it could well be a dubbel-in of the real saddam. and the DNA stuff well the investigators could of just used some old dna of saddam to say he is the real one.

so the can bring the MORAL up, so that the american soldiers think there the best.

oke now some people may think i'm anti-america, no i'm not
i'm anti-bush and against the war. oke it's good that saddam is gone. but bush said as soon as we got saddam, we leave iraq but there still there !

bLindsAge

[i] the soldiers of america are just the same as the iraqi soldiers, ANIMALS !!! shoot first, shoot some more, shoot again, and mabey if you don't forget ask a few quistion later.]

[QOUTE]oke now some people may think i'm anti-america, no i'm not
i'm anti-bush and against the war. oke it's good that saddam is gone. but bush said as soon as we got saddam, we leave iraq but there still there ! [/B]

....That's a pretty bold assessment for someone who has not been in a combat situation. What are you basing this description on? Have you ever been threatened by soldiers? Ever been in combat? Pretty hard to look down on someone who has opted to serve a cause and lay down their life if necessary to prottect people they don't even know...regardless of the side they are on.

And if the soldiers truly had a "shoot first" mentality....for better or for worse...the occupation would be over....long over.

...he did NOT state that at any time....

Lieutenant_Ryan

(...That video is obviously edited to make it seem more futile than it possibly maybe...)

Read the whole story of that video, you'll see that wounded Iraqi form no danger of any kind on the soldiers.

(...On the other hand.....I do acknowledge the arrogance of that US solider...)

To execute a wounded "even for a combatant" is not an arrogance, but it's called a war crime.

Freddy Krueger

Originally posted by bLindsAge
....That's a pretty bold assessment for someone who has not been in a combat situation. What are you basing this description on? Have you ever been threatened by soldiers? Ever been in combat? Pretty hard to look down on someone who has opted to serve a cause and lay down their life if necessary to prottect people they don't even know...regardless of the side they are on.

And if the soldiers truly had a "shoot first" mentality....for better or for worse...the occupation would be over....long over.

...he did NOT state that at any time....

i'm not talkling about only that movie.
i haven't been in a war time yes. but the soldiers on both sides are doing horrible things !

Lieutenant_Ryan

Originally posted by HomoUniversalis

If that person (who got shot) just shot every comrade, but than got shot in the leg and was disabled from combat, the soldier in question must treat him as one of his own soldiers and treat him with medical supplies.

If he does otherwise he is disobeying the laws made by the UN. This soldier is not only arrogant, he is not obeying international laws, he is a war-criminal!

Perfect

supaman

Homo,

I'm far from being ignorant!!
Not sure if I mentioned this before earlier, but I didn't support the way Bush entered the war, although I do support our troops!

Secondly, there are victims on both sides and each of them think they are doing the right thing. I don't blame Iraqi's for fighting for their land, but US is NOT trying to take over and rather helping them. These are again Sadam's pets and not so much he overall citizens of Iraq. (True....there's always innocent getting caught in the middle)

I understand the UN laws, but frankly most of us arguing here have never been in a war, and I think would respond totally differently if put in a deadly situation.

(P.S. And I make little or no spelling errors either, but I do tend to write shorthand....i.e u =you)

NeoOfMatrix,
I understand your situation, and so no further comments!
(BTW....HOMO is agreeing with you!)

Freddy,
News Flash!!!
WAR IS HORRIBLE no matter which side you're on.......period!!

And all you siting examples and agreeing on all these UN laws......here's the reality....war is never fair!!
When in combat, soldiers sometimes become totally disillusioned and the first insticnt would be to survive....then...kill, be killed, or surrender.

"The choice is yours".

stalin6025

Originally posted by Neo Of Matrix
if you realy understand my words like everyone here understand it ( except stalin ) you will see that i mean with this 2 words ( gr8 dictator ) that Saddam with a BIG , BLOODY , CRUEL DICTATOR = GR8 DICTATOR .........

so plz dont misunderstand me again and try have my point of view , is that clear for ypu now ???????

excuse me!? understand you... let me get this straight.
gr = grr
8= eight
gr+8= great
great= good, fantastic.

great dictator... i understood perfectly f**king well thank you neo of the matrix. to make sure that you understand yourself, and complications do not occur, how about you write in normal english. no numbers mixed with letters. show some intelligence.

Ou Be Low hoo

the general connotation of the word 'great' or 'g3'(whatever it is..) is very good. Eg. The Big Lebowski is a GREAT movie.

Great Dictator still makes sense but it is a little ambiguous and also slightly oxymoronic in this useage.

If you need anymore help simply start a thread called 'Ask Ou Be'...I'm a kind man, and will happily oblige.

You are welcome.

Ps. Bush is a war mongerer and THE single greatest threat to the world community. HE is the biggest terrorist of them all. Not only is he stewpid, but also a puppet to the greater hand of father, Cheney, Rumblesfeld, et al. It is quite ironic that Powell is a former army general, but the least trigger happy of all of them...he's a moderate by comparison! God bless the US!

John 12:16 - your bible references ARE a joke, aren't they!????????!??!?

HomoUniversalis

....That's a pretty bold assessment for someone who has not been in a combat situation. What are you basing this description on? Have you ever been threatened by soldiers? Ever been in combat? Pretty hard to look down on someone who has opted to serve a cause and lay down their life if necessary to prottect people they don't even know...regardless of the side they are on.

And if the soldiers truly had a "shoot first" mentality....for better or for worse...the occupation would be over....long over.

Whether he has been in the war or not is irrelevant. It is still a warcrime and I hope this man will be severly punished for this first degree murder (don't they give the death punishment for that in the USA?)

My bible quotes were never intended as a joke. But than again, I am an atheïst, so give me a break.

Supaman

Whether or not war is fair or not is totally besides the point this man has violated the law and must pay for that. That person was no longer a threat, and should therefor not be treated as one.
Your failure to understand and comprehend that is not my problem, seek an attourney, and ask them.

Disillusioned? Sounds like incapable of war to me. If you can't distinguish foe from friend, you shouldn't be out there! And the minute that man was no longer an aggresor, he became a friend!

That, supaman, is the law.

Matthew 7:1,

Homo Universalis

Ou Be Low hoo

Aha...you just appreciate great works of fiction then...

I too admire Plato and Socrates...they conned many people in wonderful ways, that they probably couldn't even fathom.

The Real Woman In Red's Mamma 6:9

HomoUniversalis

Fiction? Yes, I guess you could describe it like that. I too greatly admire "the republic", but I guess I am too young to understand it's purpose, and meaning. Right?

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

Ou Be Low hoo

Yeah, you're right...give it a few more years, then you'll begin to understand it a bit more...time is on your side, don't worry...

Freddy Krueger

Originally posted by supaman

Freddy,
News Flash!!!
WAR IS HORRIBLE no matter which side you're on.......period!!

i Know that, you think i would love a war ? no way !!!
i'm just glad it isn't in my country :)

http://www.lachnu.nl/grog/content//plaatjes/office_xp_assistant_bush.jpg

bLindsAge

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HomoUniversalis
[B]Whether he has been in the war or not is irrelevant. It is still a warcrime and I hope this man will be severly punished for this first degree murder (don't they give the death punishment for that in the USA?)[QOUTE]

True...but the statement he made was a blanket for "soldiers". The actions of one do not reflect the meaning of the whole.

And yes...he should be severely punished if that is in fact exactly what happened as we see it. There are significant scenarios occuring in the M. E. to perhaps explain (not justify) certain actions (aka...women suicide bombers). But you are correct...if the scenario occured as we saw, the punishment should be severe.

Question for you HU...you are so ready to believe in conspiracy theories (I don't know enough to believe or disbelieve) when they hint at the animosity and vileness of the US...could not conspiracy theories exist for other groups?

HomoUniversalis

I'm a conspiracy theorist, yes. But I'm not sure what you mean with other groups, but I did dedicate a thread in the Matrix Reloaded thread. But it is now hidden under a large pile of double threads. It's called the Illuminati.

Looking at the footage, and the comment of the CNN reporter, I think it was indeed a violation of the law. But that is up to the court to decide.

Matthew 7:1,

Homo Universalis

Freddy Krueger

knowing bush he would of course on tv disprove the killing of a wounded man, but off-tv he would be praising that young soldier

bLindsAge

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HomoUniversalis
[B]I'm a conspiracy theorist, yes. But I'm not sure what you mean with other groups, but I did dedicate a thread in the Matrix Reloaded thread. But it is now hidden under a large pile of double threads. It's called the Illuminati.[Quote]

Thanks. Just read through a portion of the thread (I will read more later). Extremely interesting....While I do not agree with what I have read, I can better accept your posts knowing that it is not simply a matter of the US being behind everything bad that happens. ]

supaman

Homo,

"Looking at the footage, and the comment of the CNN reporter, I think it was indeed a violation of the law. But that is up to the court to decide"

bLindsAge...put it nicely.
Just as you at first accused me of watching CNN or other mainstream media to draw conclusions........you do just that here!

We don't know how the situation was exactly and can say what I already did before that this news cast was 'edited' to show the US soldier coming out bad (although....yes...highly unlikely).

The point is.......you cannot judge all of US military based on this one soldier's action. How many other stories are out there of US helping the Iraqi's and vice versa!

And its so easy to say:
"Disillusioned? Sounds like incapable of war to me. If you can't distinguish foe from friend, you shouldn't be out there!"

....in the safety of your home and able to think straight. I'd like to see if a person can make similar judgements when bombs are going off around you and one of your limbs is separated from your body. (Of course there are exceptions).

"And the minute that man was no longer an aggresor, he became a friend! "

---uhh....NO! I wouldn't start going on a killing spree but I wouldn't consider the agressor in question my friend either!! The first thing I would do is to make sure the "friend" doesn't have any weapons on him and then tie him up.

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Whether he has been in the war or not is irrelevant. It is still a warcrime and I hope this man will be severly punished for this first degree murder..)

Zero chance my dear, zero chance.

In March 16, 1968 and during Vietnam war, a bloody massacre done by frustrated American soldiers of Charlie company, first battalion, 20th infantry, 11th brigade against unarmed, noncombatant civilians of My Lai village.

Result was horrifying.

More than 300 villagers were murdered, with their families.
Lt. William Calley the command of the troops admitted the carnage in Nov. 1969, and he stood before the court and sentenced to life in prison.

He was released from prison just after 5 years, and later he worked in life insurance company.

More at: (+ photos)

http://www.asiapac.org.fj/cafepacific/resources/aspac/viet.html

---

HomoUniversalis

Well, Supaman, replying to your last statement. The law tells you to do that. The only thing you made clear by this, is that you shouldn't be in the military. Of course, it is wise to keep that man away from weapons, but he needs medical treatment, and that is your first priority as a soldier!

These men are being trained to think during a combat situation. If they are unable to think at that time, and consider their actions, either the training isn't good, or the men aren't smart enough to do so.

This is not about the easy thing to say. It's about the law here, and if you refuse to follow it, you get punished. It's called justice and it has nothing to do with the easy thing to do!

I was suprised to see that footage from CNN, as I had expected BBC (they keep an open mind). And since the CNN is government-controlled, it was probably even worse.

And Supaman, again you prove to me that you know nothing of the matter.

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

bLindsAge

So Lieutenant_Ryan..what is your point???

That attrocities have been committed and the past and justice not served??? Earthshattering news!!!!

Cambodia, Ethiopa, Poland, Vietnam, Civil War, Revoltionary War, World War I, World War II, The Crusades, Korean Conflict, War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Stalin's regime, Pearl Harbor....go back to the Spaniards and the Aztecs....this list could be endless.

Type anyone of those in yahoo along with a work like "massacre" or "slaughter"...see what you find.

HomoUniversalis

He was trying to prove that the USA will not bring justice to it's soldiers (like the popular series JAG implies) but instead just let's them do what they want.

Plus this example was very related to that shooting, so I did get his point, and I thank him for making it. Thanx!

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

bLindsAge

No...the reality of the situation is that there is a different code of law for military and political crimes. It is simply held under a different light. It is WRONG...but it is not limited to the United States.

Give me an example of another country bringing justice to it's soldiers...again, take the Cambodia Batdambang Massacre...(The Killing Fields)

Government enacted massacre...I am not aware of any justice being handed out.

HomoUniversalis

I never said injustice was restricted to the US, nor did I imply that injustice was most found in the US. However as this discussion was going about the US and Iraq, other US or Iraqi examples seemed more appropriate than "the killing fields", wouldn't you agree?

And, let's please get back to the point.. Sadam's capture...

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

bLindsAge

No. As the thread has brought up military injustice as a focus, any example of said injustice could be brought up, national origin notwhithstanding.

but I agree...we have moved off topic...

HomoUniversalis

Nothing like a bit of controversy to get this engine started:

Who thinks Sadam Hussein should be released, given command over the entire Middle-East, and get all the Biological, Chemical and Nuclear weapons the USA "doesn't" have?

:D

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

bLindsAge

yes...but only after Mao Tse Tung is resurrected and he is given a copy of "Nuclear Weapons for Dummies".

supaman

Homo,

Yes....I agree on the fact that soldiers are trained for combat, but I like to think practically as well and base my opinions on what I've seen (at least the sources that we belive to be somewhat relevant) and not on what "should" be!

"The only thing you made clear by this, is that you shouldn't be in the military."

---And how am I not in accordance with the law to what I suggested. Don't assume things! Of course I would treat the wounded, but at the same time, the person is still the enemy. Otherwise what is stopping the "friend" from killing me. You might be moral, but how about your "friend" who might have no reason to be.
I proved to you that I would probably survive longer perhaps, than you would in a war!

Anyway........moving on!!!

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Cambodia, Ethiopa, Poland, Vietnam, Civil War, Revoltionary War, World War I, World War II, The Crusades, Korean Conflict, War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Stalin's regime, Pearl Harbor....go back to the Spaniards and the Aztecs....this list could be endless..)

The actions made by most of those you mention were described in history as atrocities, no twisting facts in here.

But in our case "talking about the American empire" where history is end with the triumph of it's civilization, massacring people is an action of liberation.

(..Type anyone of those in yahoo along with a work like "massacre" or "slaughter"...see what you find..)

Type "American Terrorism" and tell me what you'll find.
Facts, pure and flat.

(..Give me an example of another country bringing justice to it's soldiers..)

And this justify denying justice?
I can run with my crime since everybody do, right?
No, wrong!

Let me reminds you again that we are talking about US and not Guine-Bissau, where there are American troops in more than 30 bases around the world, and where US bombed 23 times foreigne countries since WWII.

Regarding soldiers and applied justice, at the moment I can remember this case, the Jordanian soldier who fired on school bus to kill seven Israeli girls in 1996, he was detained and sent behind bars till the day by the Jordanian govt.

In last, I'd love to mention you that USA refused to approve war crimes tribunal.

Why?

To give American servicemen immunity of facing prosecution at the International Court in The Hague.

---

HomoUniversalis...

Capturing Saddam isn't correct description of the event.
As I see it, it can't be anything but abduction.

Saddam is the president of Iraq, and the American invasion of Iraq dosen't change facts.

Whether he is a war criminal or not, this is not proven yet.
And until he's convicted by fair trial, everything US is doing is a war crime!

Picturing him and airing those pictures is a war crime.
Delivering him to the Iraqi council is a war crime.
Holding him in the occupation custody is a war crime.
Transfering him to out of Iraq "even to The Hague" is a war crime.
(Which reminds me... transfering Afghani captives to Guantanamo was a war crime by the way)

About Bush and coming election, he dosn't need Saddam too much to improve his chances of winning it.
Planning to win the election he can do one of two things, to lower the taxes or to allow another plot.

And since he can't lower taxes anymore, Bin Laden will be let to work.

Wait and see.

Neo Of Matrix

Originally posted by stalin6025
excuse me!? understand you... let me get this straight.
gr = grr
8= eight
gr+8= great
great= good, fantastic.

great dictator... i understood perfectly f**king well thank you neo of the matrix. to make sure that you understand yourself, and complications do not occur, how about you write in normal english. no numbers mixed with letters. show some intelligence.

yes i mean that he is a great dictator , great here ( in my opinion ) shows that he is realy bloody and desserve to have a great place with Hitler and SHawshesko of Romania and Stalin ofcourse , so you just understand it in the way that he's a great = wounderful , perfect , amazing dictator so i would say to you : sorry , you need to read my post again and carefuly to understand what i mean .....

PS : English is not my basic language in my country , so from now im sorry if i did use a wrong expressions or make errors in my spelling , and i promise you all that i will never use the shortcut words again .........

thanks all ..........

hugonut

Lieutenant_Ryan

Hugonut, have we meet before?

Any way....

Here's a great site talkin' in detail about those crime all over the world.

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/

And this one full of pictures about the last invasion of Iraq:

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/iraqgenocide/Genocide2.html

This section about Cuba and comrade Fidel Castro:

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/usgenocide/CrbnCnSthAmrc.html#Cuba59

hugonut

Originally posted by Lieutenant_Ryan
Hugonut, have we meet before?

Any way....

Here's a great site talkin' in detail about those crime all over the world.

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/

This section about Cuba and comrade Fidel Castro:

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/usgenocide/CrbnCnSthAmrc.html#Cuba59

yes we have Ryan ;) Anyway, in fact the USA did many war crimes but how can you punish a global power???? The U.N should send weapon inspectors to the USA...

Matrix_Fan_0.2

----OFF TOPIC------

Are you the ultimate Hugonut, the one with the hugoness thing?? the one that left, back again? Im not going to say the name you used to have, cause i dont think you want to divulge it. But, are you???

//\\// E ()

I HATE THE FRIKKIN' NEWS DUDES!

HomoUniversalis

Originally posted by Lieutenant_Ryan
(..Cambodia, Ethiopa, Poland, Vietnam, Civil War, Revoltionary War, World War I, World War II, The Crusades, Korean Conflict, War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Stalin's regime, Pearl Harbor....go back to the Spaniards and the Aztecs....this list could be endless..)

The actions made by most of those you mention were described in history as atrocities, no twisting facts in here.

But in our case "talking about the American empire" where history is end with the triumph of it's civilization, massacring people is an action of liberation.

(..Type anyone of those in yahoo along with a work like "massacre" or "slaughter"...see what you find..)

Type "American Terrorism" and tell me what you'll find.
Facts, pure and flat.

(..Give me an example of another country bringing justice to it's soldiers..)

And this justify denying justice?
I can run with my crime since everybody do, right?
No, wrong!

Let me reminds you again that we are talking about US and not Guine-Bissau, where there are American troops in more than 30 bases around the world, and where US bombed 23 times foreigne countries since WWII.

Regarding soldiers and applied justice, at the moment I can remember this case, the Jordanian soldier who fired on school bus to kill seven Israeli girls in 1996, he was detained and sent behind bars till the day by the Jordanian govt.

In last, I'd love to mention you that USA refused to approve war crimes tribunal.

Why?

To give American servicemen immunity of facing prosecution at the International Court in The Hague.

---

HomoUniversalis...

Capturing Saddam isn't correct description of the event.
As I see it, it can't be anything but abduction.

Saddam is the president of Iraq, and the American invasion of Iraq dosen't change facts.

Whether he is a war criminal or not, this is not proven yet.
And until he's convicted by fair trial, everything US is doing is a war crime!

Picturing him and airing those pictures is a war crime.
Delivering him to the Iraqi council is a war crime.
Holding him in the occupation custody is a war crime.
Transfering him to out of Iraq "even to The Hague" is a war crime.
(Which reminds me... transfering Afghani captives to Guantanamo was a war crime by the way)

About Bush and coming election, he dosn't need Saddam too much to improve his chances of winning it.
Planning to win the election he can do one of two things, to lower the taxes or to allow another plot.

And since he can't lower taxes anymore, Bin Laden will be let to work.

Wait and see.

Sorry for taking so long.

I said in a previous reply that indeed, the invasion of Iraq was against the wishes of the UN, and therefore a warcrime. Sadam Hussein is (I think I said that, but I'm too lazy to search) is still the leader of Iraq, and it's soldiers. The SCUD's they had (short-missile ones) were legal in defence of their own country.

Even though they have broken the law, their reason (that was suppose to sanction the means) is nowhere to be found. (reason=weapons of massdestruction (btw: America HAS womd!!!Dear HugoNut (Déja vu :p))).

Osama Bin Laden was by the USA in the '80's identified as a freedom warrior. The USA trained him so he could kill the people (I think it was either Iran or Kuweit) that opposed the US.

Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA in guerilla warfare (the stuff Iraqi soldiers are doing now: Hit and run stuff) and terrorist attacks (9/11 anyone?).

Short before 9/11 Bush made a long-distance phonecall with the "former" puppet: Osama Bin Laden. The palestinians on the planes (Osama always found that the land belonged to the palestinians, even in the 80's (and wasn't afraid to say it on international TV)) were under the direct protection of Mr, President, jerkoff, Bush.

This man (Bush) wrote a letter to the FBI agents after these terrorists to lay back, and not arrest them.

BTW. Den Haag, or as you call it The Hague, is actually a pretty nice city..

Matthew 7:12,

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Osama Bin Laden was by the USA in the '80's identified as a freedom warrior. The USA trained him so he could kill the people (I think it was either Iran or Kuweit) that opposed the US..)

USSR in Afghanistan.

(..Den Haag, or as you call it The Hague, is actually a pretty nice city..)

Never been to Netherlands.
All I know about the city that it is the site of the royal residence and seat of the International Court of Justice.

No wonder it's beautiful.

(..America HAS womd!..)

Here's one of them...

hugonut

Originally posted by Matrix_Fan_0.2
----OFF TOPIC------

Are you the ultimate Hugonut, the one with the hugoness thing?? the one that left, back again? Im not going to say the name you used to have, cause i dont think you want to divulge it. But, are you???

yes, but you can't expect much from me here. *This* was made for pming the mods in certain things... Look at my sig, he has no clue at all.

I like that pic Ryan. Sums pretty well up what I think about Mr. Bush... ;)

Ou Be Low hoo

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

Oscar Wilde

supaman

Sure....Bush is not the greatest leader!

But what country has not in one form or another (with the exception of India I believe) tried imposing on others since the age of civilization. And every country with a foreing policy takes self interest. US just happens to do it at a bigger level.

Bush might have had his own agenda for this war, but in the end hopefully its better for the Iraqi ppl. Its a mess that Bush Sr. made before that will be cleaned up now.

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

--Riiiight!! And other countries still need to evolve out of barbarism!

Jebulum

i'm sorry matey, but other countries usually have more than 200 years history (and made the same mistakes 100 times, heard about crusades ?).

supaman

Fine......matey!!
And what does that say about those countries making the same mistakes??

Then US is just young and naive and learning from its mistakes.
Not to mention it has made more advancements than any other country in its brief history than most which are still dwelling in their own mistakes!!

Neo Of Matrix

country with no soul or routs , country built its civilization ( if she had civilization ) on the blood of the others .....

country built its technology on the shoulders of the german and russian scientists , country through the wheat in the sea to keep his price and make the third world more starved to obey them orders ......

country try to broke the record of the war crimes everyday and every moment , once againest the palestinians by aidng the israelian army of diffence and once again by occupaying a free country ( iraq ) , and we have endless black list .....

a country without history , have no future .......

Jebulum

Originally posted by supaman
Fine......matey!!
And what does that say about those countries making the same mistakes??

Then US is just young and naive and learning from its mistakes.
Not to mention it has made more advancements than any other country in its brief history than most which are still dwelling in their own mistakes!!

same, as blindfolded as 2000 years ago.We are just primal beings, that's all.
i don't consider technology the final step to grade evolution of a civilisation. Pogress just works with exponents. it's because someone realised one day how to produce fire that Zippo and Phillip Morris are powerful company nowadays. All the basics of physics, geometry, maths etc have been produced long time ago.Zero, nor decimal were created by yanks. American companies stlll use binary for any computed product.

supaman

Ever heard the term "melting pot"?

That's what US is referred to....as in it honors all religions and traditions. Can't say the same about half as such countries!!

"i don't consider technology the final step to grade evolution of a civilisation. Pogress just works with exponents. it's because someone realised one day how to produce fire that Zippo and Phillip Morris are powerful company"

One can invent all they want, but it is nothing until it is put to some kind of use!!

Neo Of Matrix,

Should I start citing examples how much blood shedding your country has done in its history?
Ya....I guess you can say US has more crimes than Egypt. At least we're tried fairly and don't get our body parts cut off for something so trivial! And I'm not even going to start with freedom of speech.

Jebulum

question is, will any of our progress be helpulf someday in stopping a degraded earth melting down because of the toxic atmosphear we are producing. i very much hope so.

Jebulum

Originally posted by supaman
Ever heard the term "melting pot"?

That's what US is referred to....as in it honors all religions and traditions. Can't say the same about half as such countries!!

Wars have melted everything and several ethnies have lived on the very same before our countries of nowadays that you believe beings 'pure'. For english, it's celts and dan, besides other tribes. In africa, we even created countries with over ten ethnies that keeps slaughtering each other nowadays. the melting pot is everywhere, just less obvious because it happened hell of a long time ago.Besides, i wouldn't be really proud of this, seeing how minorities are treated.

supaman

"question is, will any of our progress be helpulf someday in stopping a degraded earth melting down because of the toxic atmosphear we are producing. i very much hope so."

--Very well put!!
I hope so too!

Maybe you can understand what an important role techology plays and how it goes hand in hand with progress!
There are still countries where getting clean water is a big problem.

"Wars have melted everything and several ethnies have lived on the very same before our countries of nowadays that you believe beings 'pure'. For english, it's celts and dan, besides other tribes. In africa, we even created countries with over ten ethnies that keeps slaughtering each other nowadays. the melting pot is everywhere, just less obvious because it happened hell of a long time ago."

--Just goes to show you. Without a decent role of government that all can just as easily fade away. US has at least still managed to keep its own.

Jebulum

if that technology hadn't occured and the population limited, eartch wouldn't be crying for help right now.

supaman

The evolution and advancement of technology is "inevitable".

Let's just hope we're smart enough to use it wisely and undo some of the damages!

And the population can be limited with proper education on sex and such, although people are living longer due to advancement in medicinal technology!!

This is whole another thread though!!

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Sure....Bush is not the greatest leader!..)

I can't think of Bush but as a vampire.
Vampires needed blood to survive, and that what Bush is doing.

But unlike the old Romanian lamia, Bush suck hundreds of innocent people blood everyday to keep his chair.

(..Bush might have had his own agenda for this war..)

And the war before.
And again the war to come.
With Bush wars would never end, and their are lots of pretexts.

(..in the end hopefully its better for the Iraqi ppl..)

Bombing Iraqi with 88,000 tons of bombs in 6 weeks "equal to 7 atomic bombs like that of Hiroshima" during Desert Storm massacre.

Sanction them for 12 years and killing 1.6 million poor citizens, half of them are children.

Then again repeating Desert Storm scenario but with more sophisticated bombs, including all prohibited weapons like cluster bombs, never gas, napalm and DU shells.

I don't have guts to call it "better for them"!

(..Its a mess that Bush Sr. made before that will be cleaned up now..)

Could you just listen to yourself!

Do me a favor and visit next site, please....

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/iraqgenocide/Genocide2.html

Still believing in Pentagon rubbish?
----

(...other countries usually have more than 200 years history and made the same mistakes 100 times, heard about crusades ?..)

But nobody call crusades "War of Freedom" anymore.
Calling things with their correct names. That's the difference.

----

(..And what does that say about those countries making the same mistakes?..)

America is repeating it's OWN mistakes, remember Vietnam?
Unfortunately, same mistakes will end up with same results.

Once I read a saying _sadly can't remember it well_ but anyway it says: "Those who don't learn from history, will be doomed to repeat it again".

Jebulum

“We had a great day. We killed a lot of people. We dropped a few civilians, but what do you do? I’m sorry but the chick was in the way.”

— Sgt. Eric Schrumpf
cowardly sniper
with the Fifth Marine Regiment
March 29, 2003

that's the best one i read in ages.

supaman

Lieutenant_Ryan,

I don't condone Bush's actions, and telling like it is!
Truth hurts as they say!

I'm acknowleding the fact that they have gone the wrong way about the war.......as many of the opinions see it that way as well.

War is never pretty and there are innocent caught in the middle as well.

I can site just as many links to atrocities of Saddam in his own country and Iraqi citizens praising the US soldiers.
Of course nothing justifies such actions as depicted in those links but it does not reflect the whole US military in its entirety.

You're looking at only one side of the coin!!

alkazapper

There should not been any war. As a civilised human being, we should've use all these technologies for better purpose. Not using it as a tool for killing other human!

Ther are better way of solving world class criminals. The only problem is.....NOBODY WANTS TO REACH ANY AGREEMENT.

HomoUniversalis

They call it a melting-pot. Yet they still discriminate the black people, the latin-american people, and the indians (who lived their in the first place), Bush publicly said he would find a way to ban gay marriages.

Melting pot, my ass!

War is never good. Oh boohoo. This war was against the UN, so it was "extra" wrong. I hope the UN sue's Bush in "The Hague".

Ther shouldn't be any war. Indeed, we are at an agreement, however unfotunately, Bush sr is making billions out of the war, so war is at hand.

Should Bush stay another 4 years, I expect another terrorist strike against a highly populated area followed by retrobution against some anti-American nation.

BTW did you remember that Bush said he would make no difference between the terrorists who commited these vile acts and the countries that harbour them?

There is a terrorist living in Florida wanted in various countries for Terrorism, but the US does not deliver him to the proper authorities.

Very righteous!

The history of the European people stretches back more than two thousand years. In this time we have seen many wars. Two of the largest nations of Europe, France and Germany, both opposed the war, yet Bush (and Bush represents the USA) ignored them, only telling him they couldn't have a share in the spoils of war.

I would almost think the spoils of war was what this whole thing was about. But we all know the real meaning was the "weapons of Mass-Destruction"... So where are they?

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

Kaneda

Ha, i know how you feel HU especially living in the only country that supported America in the Iraq war, it tires me watching the amount of propaganda that gets continually spread around when often the reality of the situation is about as far away as a quick and easy explanation of the matrix trilogy. As far as WOMD are concerned, who knows? Maybe they're being delivered as we speak.

Sorry if this offends anyone, i say this because i know it will, but it's my honest opinion and i feel it's worth giving when i know that one or more people agree.

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..I'm acknowleding the fact that they have gone the wrong way about the war..)

They have gone the wrong way about the Iraqi issue as a whole.
My opinion that war is a mistake by itself, and not only the atrocities committed in it.

(..I can site just as many links to atrocities of Saddam in his own country and Iraqi citizens praising the US soldiers..)

Few fatcs:
1) US is not the world cop.
2) US is not UN either.
3) US armed, helped, supported and trained Saddam's regime, before, during and after massacring his people.
4) US targeted Iraqi people through out the damn war.
5) US eyed the Iraqi oil, nothing else.

-----

(..."We had a great day. We killed a lot of people. We dropped a few civilians, but what do you do? I’m sorry but the chick was in the way.” wardly sniper with the Fifth Marine Regiment March 29, 2003 ... that's the best one i read in ages...)

My favorite is....

"Get some new lawyers"

- US Secretary of State Madeline Albright to British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook when he told her he was informed that the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was illegal under international law.

-----

(...Ther are better way of solving world class criminals. The only problem is.....NOBODY WANTS TO REACH ANY AGREEMENT...)

In our case in here, Iraq tried hard to reach any kind of agreements with UN.
That's why UN refused to give orders to attack Iraq.

We can't say the same about United States.
-----

(..This war was against the UN, so it was "extra" wrong. I hope the UN sue's Bush in "The Hague"..)

Bush just did what Saddam done in 1990 when he invaded Kuwait.

If war crimes charges are to be brought in relation to Iraq, the most serious one of all would be leveled against the Bush administration for plotting and prosecuting an unprovoked war of aggression against the Republic of Iraq.

(..Should Bush stay another 4 years, I expect another terrorist strike against a highly populated area followed by retrobution against some anti-American nation..)

Bullseye!

You know what?
At 14 Sept. 2001 I wrote an article to a local newspaper stating my fear that USA will use the towers fall as a pretext to finish old bills against some nations, including Afghanistan, Iraq, N. Korea, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Cuba.

That exactly what happened, and will happen.

Another plot is highly needed to continue the agenda of war.

(..BTW did you remember that Bush said he would make no difference between the terrorists who commited these vile acts and the countries that harbour them? ...There is a terrorist living in Florida wanted in various countries for Terrorism, but the US does not deliver him to the proper authorities..)

There 're many schools to train terrorists located in US, in Washington DC and Georgia.

"Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation" or "WHISC", which was known previously as "School of the Americas" trained and graduated more than 60,000 dictators, generals, army soldiers and security guards who terrorized, terrified, tortured, excruciated, assassinated, murdered, executed hundrad thousends of Latin America poor civilians.

Yet, I saw no B-52 bombarding Fort Benning!

(.. I would almost think the spoils of war was what this whole thing was about..)

Correct, again.

alkazapper

Despite all this I'm glad that I am living in one of the most Peaceful country in the world. (NOT BOASTING!!).

Malaysia....

stalin6025

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
Smile and the whole world smiles with you.

Wind your neck in and we will ALL be much happier.

What's next from you kids? Ban Dr Strangelove? Nope? Ahh...you probably haven't had time to watch it, what with all the play FInding Nemo has been having on your dvd player!

Parody is the best way of deflating the power of any person...they end up becoming a caricature of themselves.

i was REFERRING to all these stupid ****ing pictures as saddam dressed up as santa clause and **** like that. if people are going to use paraody at least make it intelligent, and the parody used in this thread is not funny, because its simplistic.

and yes i have seen the masterpiece, Dr. Strangelove (How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the bomb)

Lieutenant_Ryan

TIME magazine's "Person of The Year" was the American soldier!

A link to the cover image:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/031221/photos_ts_afp/031221164912_cct1yphq_photo0

I made a cover for the TIME, in fact I made two!

Here we go:

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Despite all this I'm glad that I am living in one of the most Peaceful country in the world..)

Do you have oil?

If NO, then that's the reason.
If YES, don't say, Bush may hear you!

Ou Be Low hoo

Got Oil?

We wants it, we does...we wants my precious...precioussssssss.

HomoUniversalis

Too bad my country isn't that peacefull, I would very much like to say that my coutry stood up to president Bush and made a stance for all that is good in the world. Unfortunately the foolish conservative catholics that are currently ripping my country into small tiny shreds agreed with Bush when they were kissing his ass, and sent troops to Iraq to aid him in these warcrimes. It is disgusting.

The American soldier, person of the year? Micheal Moore, he is the person of the year. At least he has some principles. To all of you American soldiers/warveterans out there: You are killing and dying for the wrong reasons! Give up the war and go home, and build a better country.

At least it seems they aren't discriminating black people anymore, although he is the only one where the gun is not visible, guess they were afraid to shock some Texan rednecks.

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

hugonut

Originally posted by HomoUniversalis
Too bad my country isn't that peacefull, I would very much like to say that my coutry stood up to president Bush and made a stance for all that is good in the world. Unfortunately the foolish conservative catholics that are currently ripping my country into small tiny shreds agreed with Bush when they were kissing his ass, and sent troops to Iraq to aid him in these warcrimes. It is disgusting.

The only right thing that my government did was saying "NO" to Iraq war and "NO" to sending troops to Iraq :)

HomoUniversalis

Shouldn't you be in bed, Hugonut? :p

Anyway, get better soon.
------------
Germany and France did a great thing not supporting the war, and I wish the Netherlands had had the spine to do the same. I guess you can't have it all.. Maybe I should move to Belgium or Germany. The cars are less expensive there, so are the houses. Suddenly moving doesn't sound so bad at all... :D

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Universalis

alkazapper

Originally posted by Lieutenant_Ryan
(..Despite all this I'm glad that I am living in one of the most Peaceful country in the world..)

Do you have oil?

If NO, then that's the reason.
If YES, don't say, Bush may hear you!

Yes we Do have oil. Infact we have the third largest gas processing plant in the world. Don't just believe me. Come down here and see it for your self. It's located at Bintulu,Sarawak, M'sia.

And scrue Bush. And his Daddy!

alkazapper

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
Got Oil?

We wants it, we does...we wants my precious...precioussssssss.

Ou Be,..Lord of the Bling Bling. Hey that's nice! You're funny! :D

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..The American soldier, person of the year? Micheal Moore, he is the person of the year. At least he has some principles..)

The Associated press commented the news and said:

[..The selection echoes 1950, the year the Korean War began, when editors picked the American GI for the cover, writing that "it was not a role the American had sought, either as an individual or as a nation. The U.S. fighting-man was not civilization's crusader, but destiny's draftee"..]

In here you can see the thing I hate the most, twisting facts.
Not civilization's crusader, but destiny's draftee!

In Sinchon city alone, and during the Korean war, US army killed more than 35,000 Korean in 3 months "Sept. to Dec. 1950"!

Regarding "Person Of The Year" and if it was up to me, I'd pick human rights lawyer "Shirin Ebadi" and Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Though she fought for democracy within a society like Iran, but also she slammed USA on it's human record, for using Sept. 11 as excuse to breach civil rights and a pretext to violate international law.

She gave Kofi Annan some bad time too, when she pointed out the double-standard dealing with UN members.

She was referring to Israel and dozen of resolutions were ignored, but in the same time Iraq was subjected to heavy enforcment to obey SC resolutions.

What a brave woman!
I like her:)

(...The only right thing that my government did was saying "NO" to Iraq war and "NO" to sending troops to Iraq...)

But allowing US to use the military base in Landstuhl!
Not to forget about Fox tanks in Kuwait, which were used during the war.

(..Too bad my country isn't that peacefull, I would very much like to say that my coutry stood up to president Bush and made a stance for all that is good in the world..)

Guys, it's not about what your "or my" govt. did, it's about what we did.

92% of Spaniards were against the war, but yet Spain joined US in it's invasion.
Same can be said about UK.
Even among Americans, a lot of them opposite the war for the oil, and demanded a total pull-back of troops from the Gulf.

It's about what we did.

(..Yes we Do have oil...And scrue Bush. And his Daddy!..)

Wait your turn dear, until Bush is done with Middle East.

One more thing, this is the second time someone is happy because he lives in a place located away from the crises area.

I say "in my modest opinion" that standing with Iraq against the invasion was a stand of every human having righteous conscience, or having moral sense within his chest.

Agreeing on the American aggression is just against the basic moral ethics.

And allowing it, would only means that I'm accepting the same to be done against my country or my nation.

I'm not accusing any of you guys, I'm just thinking out loud:)

hugonut

Originally posted by Lieutenant_Ryan
[B(...The only right thing that my government did was saying "NO" to Iraq war and "NO" to sending troops to Iraq...)

But allowing US to use the military base in Landstuhl!
Not to forget about Fox tanks in Kuwait, which were used during the war.

[/B]

yeah, you're right. But I think it would have been worse if german troops were sent to Iraq e.t.c
And you're right about that:

Guys, it's not about what your "or my" govt. did, it's about what we did.

but though we can be against the war, in fact the government decides and there is nothing we can do against it. Example, as you pointed out, spain.

and Homo,

we sometimes drive to the Netherlands to buy some cheap things. Most things are cheaper there ;)

btw, how do you guys know that I'm german? :p

HomoUniversalis

btw, how do you guys know that I'm german?

You remind me of this really great moderator that used to be around here. She got banned, though, for reasons unknown. But we will never forget her!
She came from Germany, and since you reminded me of her, I guess I just thought you were from there too.

Everything is cheaper here, except for the things we have to pay for to import. Darn Balkenende...

Matthew 7:12,

Homo Univeralis

hugonut

Originally posted by HomoUniversalis
Shouldn't you be in bed, Hugonut? :p

Anyway, get better soon.

nah... it's forbidden to read the GIRL thread :p

ThereIsNoMatrix

From what I have read, it seems a lot of you do not recognize the individual amongst the crowd. You obviously haven't when you have said "The people of Iraq want the USA to leave." (notice he did not put "some of" in front of "The people" making his statement seem concrete based). You can say that the Iraqis would MUCH RATHER live in fear of a dictator who deals with critisism by wiping them off the face of the earth, rather than being liberated by a free country. I'm sure the Iraqis would much rather continue to live under this dictator, as they have for the past what? 30 years at the least, I believe. I'm sure they are ecstatic that everyone who's tried to run against Saddam was assassinated. I'm also sure they didn't want all that money Saddam took for himself. Sure, tose millions of dollars should have went to improve the lives of the Iraqi people, but hell, if Saddam needs a new palace and a statue of himself for them to worship in fear... Why not? Of course, we could reflect in the same manner on Afghanistan. Perhaps we shouldn't have gone in there either... After all, women don't deserve to have their faces seen in public. And let's not get started on education for women... What woman would want to be able to read and write? (Seriously though, these people are a century or two in the past). Go ahead and say my opinion of freedom is distorted, it's the only argument you can make which is farther fetched than saying it's sad seeing a man like that (referring to Saddam Hussein) fall for the crimes of George Bush senior and his predecessors.

You have no right to pity anyone. You probably assume that being from another nation makes your opinion more important, by saying "I pity you for being one of your governments mindless slaves" - Do you say that to everyone who questions YOUR argument's basis? You want to talk about being a "mindless slave" of a government? How about when the Iraqi television stations were reporting that "Iraq was winning the war."?

We went to war to ensure our freedom. How much money would it have cost if we let the terrorists attack us without reciprocating anything? How many more people would have died? What if that was your brother, mother, significant other, in the building, in that tower, in that office, in the cabin in that plane? If you're in this country, you should be thinking free for yourself, not letting others tell you ****. That's what is great about this country, it tries to define itself around free thinking individuals, and if you are not one then you contribute to the ignorance of society in this country and other's views from other countries. You can argue forever what we went to war for - you may never find out.

If you are going to exercise your creativity, tell us something that isn't useless, examine it from both sides, and don't group people into a catagory and type (Anyone can do this. If you think it's new and true then you are either -10 years old or a dumbass, however I oftentimes use it as humor). Make sure you examine what people say in the context they say it, never take it out of context for it looses its meaning. Ex: Have you ever said anything when you were pissed off that you regret saying, I have, though I do not do it much, I appologize later for it. Let's say the appology was never heard..you would think I was a jerk, wouldn't you? There is too much bull**** in the world, here is a typical example of not telling the whole story/lying your ass off bull****:

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/iraqgenocide/Genocide2.html

Yeah, I love that site, it makes americans look like we are brain dead. Let me think for a second here... Scroll a little down and you will see a soldier by a truck, the camera is in the truck and there is a picture of a girl in a skimpy outfit, let me ask you how you would deal with being away from your girlfriend/wife for months on end? They have no right to judge a person's sexual habits, and if you believe what they say, DON'T YOU EVER SHOW ANY HUMAN DESIRES FOR YOU WILL BE THE BIGGEST HYPOCRIT I KNOW. I don't look at porno because I am not into that, I have better things to do with my time and I would never pass judgment on someone if they did, judge Michael Jackson instead (f***** deserves it). They make the US military to look like a bunch of inhuman baby killers (their exact words), that's again...putting people into a type. You know what truly is the funny part? They don't realize a few people can ruin it for everyone. Why isn't there more videos of the US Soldiers murdering iraqis cold bloodedly? Perhaps because they were the military officials in iraq, who were targets of assasination, or maybe they just edited it. Just because one moron said something completely stupid doesn't mean everyone from that country is as unintelligible as him.

As for Germany and France being actively opposed to this war... What did you really expect? These countries aren't necessarily best friends with us. After all, if we hadn't entered World War II, things may have turned out a lot better for Germany. And France - I don't necessarily like them. The country (not necessarily the people, as that would be placing them into a category) is a coward. The country would cease to exist if it wasn't for us - not once, but twice in the past century.

War is innevitible - The human race is too stupid to live in harmony and solve EVERYTHING peacefully. War is never a good thing, but we must deal with it. In an ideal world there would be no war... There would be no prejudice... There would be no greed, and no one would go hungry. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world.

And yet again, I see you guys are looking at this from one perspective:

I say "in my modest opinion" that standing with Iraq against the invasion was a stand of every human having righteous conscience, or having moral sense within his chest.

Agreeing on the American aggression is just against the basic moral ethics.

And allowing it, would only means that I'm accepting the same to be done against my country or my nation.

Let us turn the situation around, once more. You live in Iraq. Your "leader" has been in office for the past 30+ years. He's burnt your houses and fields, and executed your friends, who are Iraqi civilians like you. Meanwhile, he takes the money that should be going to you, improving living conditions for you, and spends it on himself. You know if you stand against him, you'll be assassinated. Agreeing to accept this, to let another innocent human being live like this is against the basic moral ethics. Allowing it only means that you're hypocritical - against war, yet for the inhumane situations these innocent people live through.

A saying that has been recited time and time again goes something like, "Standing by and doing nothing, is just as bad as commiting the foul deed." If we were to stand by and let these people suffer, it would be no better than what Saddam himself was doing.

I'm sorry for the length of this... Hope I covered everything :D. Can't wait to hear the replies!

Lieutenant_Ryan

(..You can say that the Iraqis would MUCH RATHER live in fear of a dictator who deals with critisism by wiping them off the face of the earth, rather than being liberated by a free country..)

First of all, how many Iraqi Saddam "whipped off" since he took control of iraq?

Lately I read a report made by American institue estimated the number to reach 60,000.

US killed 1,6 million Iraqi by sanctions, half of them were children!

If we gonna compare, Saddam would be much better than any American adminstration.

Secondly, America was the country that help, backed and supported Saddam with atrocities.
Just now they discovered how bad he is?

Last, whom you are fooling in here?
Bush went to war for oil "real reason", and for weapons of mass destruction "as pretext", liberating Iraqi people was never on agenda.

(..Of course, we could reflect in the same manner on Afghanistan. Perhaps we shouldn't have gone in there either..)

Don't tell me that you believe US invade Afghanistan to liberate the Afghani people!

Heard of Caspian Sea?
The oil beneth?
This was the reason.

(..Seriously though, these people are a century or two in the past..)

B-52 sent them directly to stone age.

(..We went to war to ensure our freedom..)

For oil my friend, for oil.

(..How much money would it have cost if we let the terrorists attack us without reciprocating anything?..)

How much money would it have cost if you let the other nations without terrorizing them?

A lot.

(..What if that was your brother, mother, significant other, in the building, in that tower, in that office, in the cabin in that plane?..)

You know, most of Americans think that history started in Sept. 11, 2001.
They don't go back further to know what their Govt. did to the people everywhere in this world, and what kind of terrorism they subjected the other nations to during decades of injustice.

For example, in Sept. 11, 1973, a butcher called "Pinochet" lead a military coup in Chile, rammed down the democracy in Chile for 30 years to come.
Coup was designed and performed with full support of CIA.

I haven't heard of any Chilean bombers targeted Americans!

(..If you're in this country, you should be thinking free for yourself, not letting others tell you ****..)

Hmmm.... actually, this is the thing you need in there:)

To make it short, Albert Einstein once said: "I came to America because of the great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake in selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the balance of my lifetime."

(..Yeah, I love that site, it makes americans look like we are brain dead..)

It just telling the words written between the lines, which nobody read.

(..They make the US military to look like a bunch of inhuman baby killers...their exact words..)

They are baby killers.

(..Why isn't there more videos of the US Soldiers murdering iraqis cold bloodedly?..)

Tune to Al Jazeera, you would enjoy it.

(..Perhaps because they were the military officials in iraq, who were targets of assasination..)

Americans are occupiers "UN resolution", what you expect from Iraqi?
US built up enmity in every corner in Iraq, after participating in massacring Iraqi people for 13 years.
No single Iraqi haven't lost a member of his family on the bloody hands of US.

(..The country would cease to exist if it wasn't for us - not once, but twice in the past century..)

I don't care much for France "their opposition of war was very weak" but history says, the French helped you to exist as a free nation.

(..Let us turn the situation around, once more. You live in Iraq. Your "leader" has been in office for the past 30+ years. He's burnt your houses and fields, and executed your friends, who are Iraqi civilians like you. Meanwhile, he takes the money that should be going to you, improving living conditions for you, and spends it on himself. You know if you stand against him, you'll be assassinated. Agreeing to accept this, to let another innocent human being live like this is against the basic moral ethics. Allowing it only means that you're hypocritical - against war, yet for the inhumane situations these innocent people live through..)

Again you are repeating the same nonsense stereotypes.
The last thing USA would sacrifice thier sons for is the Iraqi freedom.
And yes, I'm against all the American terrorizing wars.

(..A saying that has been recited time and time again goes something like, "Standing by and doing nothing, is just as bad as commiting the foul deed." If we were to stand by and let these people suffer, it would be no better than what Saddam himself was doing..)

Actually US was helping, arming, supporting and covering him.

(..I'm sorry for the length of this... Hope I covered everything..)

No wonder it's long, you were repeating yourself!

Lieutenant_Ryan

(...btw, how do you guys know that I'm german? ...)

The Oracle told me:)

No, really, how many guys in the forum would care much for Castro assassination attempts?

Till now, I met one person:)

(..Everything is cheaper here, except for the things we have to pay for to import...)

Once I had Dutch friend who told me that German cross borders to buy beer!

Strange...!

alkazapper

Originally posted by Lieutenant_Ryan

(..Yes we Do have oil...And scrue Bush. And his Daddy!..)

Wait your turn dear, until Bush is done with Middle East.

One more thing, this is the second time someone is happy because he lives in a place located away from the crises area.

I say "in my modest opinion" that standing with Iraq against the invasion was a stand of every human having righteous conscience, or having moral sense within his chest.

Agreeing on the American aggression is just against the basic moral ethics.

And allowing it, would only means that I'm accepting the same to be done against my country or my nation.

I'm not accusing any of you guys, I'm just thinking out loud:)

If that turns ever come i'll be ready. In fact honestly i will boast that my whole country will be ready. I'm Happy? yes I'm happy. Infact i'm damn glad too. Bush can squandrel all that he wants with Middle East- coz he's daddy was there before. Iraq fall that day because almost half of their people never really like Saddam. That ain't their peoples faults. He was never a good leader.

There's a different being a good leader and a bad one.

And Dr. Mahathir was and will always be a Legendary leader. Why you ask? While most of other countries leader's keep on changing Dr. Mahathir still sit in his office administering his country. He has been acknowledged as the Longest running leader in any country in the world. And i am DAMN proud of it. Because whilst in his leadership for 22 years and 10 months he has brought my country from scraps of war to acknowledgeable country not just in ASIA but to rest of the world.

So Bush think he can drop his a$$ in our tiny land with his "big guns"? Go ahead. Just go right in sir. See if you can last.
The Spanish was here. None left alive to Spain. The Portuguese and the Dutch colonized our land with their big cannon, we chase them away with just kris's and spears.

The British ? So the bought a land and named it The North British Colony - what happen to James Brooke? He had to leave. His predeccesor was much better. Gave us Locomotives but then what? The guy had to pack up his things because He couldn't stand the heat and the local natives.

The Japs? Well they stayed lot longer though, but they can never stay in equatorial jungle that long. They got freak out. My great grandfather was there when that happen. He lost his Head but our people keep fighting together. Be it a Muslims, Buddists, Sikhs, Christians or Pagan. And it goes down the list. By Blood, i am a fighter. but its a different war now.

Now it's, "Economics War". But Hell thats old news already! Soros was here. He rip off the rest of Asian countries and the effect has tremendously crippled Indonesia until now! But Lt. Ryan guess what? Malaysia was the first country survived the "attack" by Soros. And you know what else? Even without seeking Loan from the IMF!

And that's how great our leader is!

So, Bush still wants to attack us? He may want to re-consider thoroughly. 0.2% of the business here runs by major company from US. Including the second Head Office of Microsoft Corp. They were one of the major share holder of Cyber Valley in KL. They even join in the grand opening of the Multi Media Super Corridor ( MSC) launching. They are more British and Americans living here over the years. Even the Japanese now are moving technologies here.

Attack as he will, He doesn't know who is our allies yet. I maybe sounding like boasting, but you will not understand how i feel about my country until YOU live here for a couple of years. Ask any body from your country that ever lived and work here.

So don't give me the crap about " just wait your turn dear" and ask me to sit my a$$ worried. You Know nothing of what our country went through to get this far!

Bush, eat you heart out!

Lieutenant_Ryan

Alkazapper, I'm sure you misunderstood me totally!

I have nothing against your country, nor anyone else countries.

But since you mentioned few points, I'd love to discuss them with you.

(..Iraq fall that day because almost half of their people never really like Saddam..)

Saddam was toppled since eight months, why Iraqi are still resisting then?

Baghadad the capital fall because of some fifth column in Rep. Gurds were bought by Americans.
They played the role of trojan horse, leting the Greeks in to the Troy of Iraq.

(..And Dr. Mahathir was and will always be a Legendary leader. Why you ask? While most of other countries leader's keep on changing Dr. Mahathir still sit in his office administering his country. He has been acknowledged as the Longest running leader in any country in the world. And i am DAMN proud of it..)

Actually this was his Achilles' heel "why Greeks keep crop up in my post?:)".

(..Because whilst in his leadership for 22 years and 10 months he has brought my country from scraps of war to acknowledgeable country not just in ASIA but to rest of the world..)

I was never of worshiping persons.
I believe malaysian would build their country with or without Mahathir Mohammed.

(..So Bush think he can drop his a$$ in our tiny land with his "big guns"?..)

No he didn't thought yet, I was just kidding.
If you felt offended by my words, I want to apology then.

(..The Spanish was here. None left alive to Spain. The Portuguese and the Dutch colonized our land with their big cannon, we chase them away with just kris's and spears..)

Proud of your country resistance is something and manipulating history is something else.

Portuguese occupied Malaysia for 200 years.
Then came Spaniard and again occupied the country, and only left after Great Britain arrived, who occupied the country for another 240 years!

Brits left Malaysia only after Malaysian agreed in signing a treaty with England, stating that they would not follow other Asian countries "e.g. India or Singapore" and raise a resistance to England's supremacy in East Asia.

Malaysia kept thier word to English by contributing large amounts of money to the Royal Air Forces during World War I.

(..The Japs? Well they stayed lot longer though, but they can never stay in equatorial jungle that long. They got freak out..)

Japanes occupied Malaysia without facing any resistance.
And stayed only for three and one-half years!

I loved "A Town Like Alice" :)

Any way, they left not because the jungles heat or any of such things, Japanese left because Americans were chasing them all through the Indian Ocean, and because thier empire came near collapsing.

When Japanese left, British again arrived!

Malaysia knew independency only in 1961, after they "peacfully" marched and kept submitting appeals to the English Parliament.

This is history my dear, you can't change, not even with enthusiastic speechs about kris, spears and your great grandfather.

-----

Hugonut...

Thank you very much, you are a kind person.

Personally, HomoUniversalis' posts are my favorite, I like most of "and not all:)" his opinions.

Hoping to read more from you both guys.