Free your mind

It doesn't matter in the end whether Neo made that phonecall at the end of M1 or after M3, all that matters is that you believe that no matter what the chronological order was, Neo could leave his physical body behind and have a MIND BODY.

As much as i hate to go into philosophical beliefs, the idea of an enlightened being also having a mind body, or even various mind bodies aswell as a physical body is very well known in Buddhist belief, and also in Shamanism. (and also Christianity, and other belief systems : Spirit)

Like someone pointed out, the time of the first trace call was 13:24 but it was pitch black. Now i also believe that the Wachowski's put these things in for a reason, but with this, i'm going with the IDEA that the brothers are deliberately pointing out to us that there is no use in getting caught up in times and dates, the rules, borders and boundaries of the matrix.

We are using our thinking way too much and over examing things to the point of madness, people here are going crazy about phonecall threads, saying "It's not true" "It is true" and going around in circles.

"Is he dead?" "Isn't he dead"

How can anyone be dead, if death is just a transitional phase between this life and the next? Of course Neo's not dead! He only passed through that phase for a very short time, even if he did leave his physical body.

Neo was enlightened. The lyrics to the song that was being played during the final battle between him and Smith only further this point, and with that being obvious, he has no need for the physical body that he had, to move around in either the matrix, or the real world.

Neo is mind as well as body, we even saw this when he was in mobil ave, so if he had to give up his physical body at the end of Revolutions he would then have been even stronger in mind for not being attached to that body.

Even if nobody believes in the phonecall theory, it doesn't matter because Neo could of done this anyway, at the end of what we decide to call life, just because we can't fully grasp what is supposed to happen after life.

It's way more important to imagine and believe.

Neo was free.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

One thing....the first phone call in M1 we did not see...we only heard it...so it inclines me to believe there is importance to each phone call.

What are the lyrics to Neodammarung?

whitefire, I totally agree with you. Even though Neo's physical body has died, his mind will continue to dwell within the Matrix.

But, I guess Neo doesn't apply to the comment Morpheus makes about the mind not being able to live without the body.

I think i'm trying to say that if Neo ended up being enlightened, his mind IS his body.

Originally posted by Anonymous
whitefire, I totally agree with you. Even though Neo's physical body has died, his mind will continue to dwell within the Matrix.

But, I guess Neo doesn't apply to the comment Morpheus makes about the mind not being able to live without the body.

Correction.....he said, "The BODY cannot live without the MIND", NOT that the MIND cannot live without the BODY.

This we all know. Because as Whitefire so eloquently put it above, we live beyond our bodies. The whole point being is that everyone here probably does not want these movies to end. So they don't want Neo to die and therefore end the story line. But I believe that eventually they will continue the story, (not unlike the star wars movies) and Neo will be back but perhaps in a different form, like the Oracle did.

Only time will tell..........

Originally posted by little dragon
What are the lyrics to Neodammarung?
go to http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/project_detail.html?id=matrix_revolutions
the lyrics are at the bottom w/translations from the original Sanskrit text...

Originally posted by Tetsujin
go to http://dondavis.filmmusic.com/project_detail.html?id=matrix_revolutions
the lyrics are at the bottom w/translations from the original Sanskrit text...

Thanks didnt realise he'd put the lyrics up for it, thought it was one of those songs with a invented language.

what does this part mean

....And when he is seen in his immanence and transcendence, then the ties that have bound the heart are unloosened, the doubts of the mind vanish, and the law of Karma works no more.

It's a desription of being enlightened.

Originally posted by whitefire
It's a desription of being enlightened.

Whats the law of karma?

That's a deep one...............

I think we're leaving the subject matter of this forum now, maybe it would be easier to have this explained in the 'matrix is all around you' forum, but what it basically is is a law that states that whatever you do thats wrong, will come back around to you in the form of 'bad' karma. Whatever you do thats good, will come back around to you in the form of 'good' karma.

Enlightenment is said to be transcending both good and bad karma, by meritorious achievment, and the ultimate realization that we are living in an illusory world, this cancels out the opposites.

Check out anything to do with Buddhism on the net or karma.

will do, thanks for that!

Glad i could help.

Excelent, the first non- Christ related, yet still religon based thread I've read so far (As small an amount as that might be) and well stated and proven to, but my only question is then: Why?
Why does the threaten the Machines with the words "A world...without you."? Why does he threaten those he has just made peace with, when both programs and people are free to go as they please? Why would Neo have to threaten them?

Simple. I've been of the opinion that he was talking to the Architect. "A world without you." Neo is telling the Architect that he's going to show the humans AND the machines a world without the failed equation of the Architect.

Originally posted by whitefire
... Neo could leave his physical body behind and have a MIND BODY.

As much as i hate to go into philosophical beliefs, the idea of an enlightened being also having a mind body, or even various mind bodies aswell as a physical body is very well known in Buddhist belief, and also in Shamanism. (and also Christianity, and other belief systems : Spirit) ...

How can anyone be dead, if death is just a transitional phase between this life and the next? Of course Neo's not dead! He only passed through that phase for a very short time, even if he did leave his physical body.

Neo was enlightened. The lyrics to the song that was being played during the final battle between him and Smith only further this point, and with that being obvious, he has no need for the physical body that he had, to move around in either the matrix, or the real world.

Neo is mind as well as body, we even saw this when he was in mobil ave, so if he had to give up his physical body at the end of Revolutions he would then have been even stronger in mind for not being attached to that body.

...

Neo was free.

So the whole Matrix thing about freeing ppl bound to the Matrix, etc was all a lie. In the end it was all about NEO. NEO. NEO.

How sad! :-)

If what u say is true [I am inclined to think so] then Neo was the only one to "leave his physical body" i.e. no more duracell for the machines. I thought that was the original purpose of The One - to show the ppl the path to TRUE freedom. Neo was just a puppet like the Merv said - following profesies, being told what to do, where to go. Do you think that the Arc did not compute what would happen if Neo chose the other door, even tho no other One did it before? Trin fulfilled her task of misleading the One - because Neo's BLIND love for her in the end ment that only NEO was really free. Only NEO was enlightened. So whichever door Neo chose, the end result would be the same - slavery.

What about the other humans? The ppl in Zion? I've said this B4 - Smith was the only one to see thro the charade : To set evryone (machine, pgm, human) truly free ["We are free, but we are not free..."], death is the ONLY solution.

Originally posted by tpfkanep
So the whole Matrix thing about freeing ppl bound to the Matrix, etc was all a lie. In the end it was all about NEO. NEO. NEO.

How sad! :-)

If what u say is true [I am inclined to think so] then Neo was the only one to "leave his physical body" i.e. no more duracell for the machines. I thought that was the original purpose of The One - to show the ppl the path to TRUE freedom. Neo was just a puppet like the Merv said - following profesies, being told what to do, where to go. Do you think that the Arc did not compute what would happen if Neo chose the other door, even tho no other One did it before? Trin fulfilled her task of misleading the One - because Neo's BLIND love for her in the end ment that only NEO was really free. Only NEO was enlightened. So whichever door Neo chose, the end result would be the same - slavery.

What about the other humans? The ppl in Zion? I've said this B4 - Smith was the only one to see thro the charade : To set evryone (machine, pgm, human) truly free ["We are free, but we are not free..."], death is the ONLY solution.

I don't know how you assume that i thought the matrix was just about NEO NEO NEO. (!?) This thread was though, you n00b, and that's why i was only talking about him.

tpfkanep : the other thread here that likens the story to a christian myth might have answers for you. If Neo is represented as the Christ figure, then everyone will be freed along with Neo himself, when he returns.

Originally posted by whitefire
I don't know how you assume that i thought the matrix was just about NEO NEO NEO. (!?) This thread was though, you n00b, and that's why i was only talking about him.

Did I say YOU said the matrix was only about NEO.
EYE said that.

Why do you have to defend yourself so? I was not even attacking ur post whitefire. Did you not see my [:-)]?

Lighten up! Live and let live. There is no need for this discussion to turn sour.

Yes, I am a noob, and PROUD of it. And I am not AFRAID/TERRIFIED/PETRIFIED of any of you so called matrix vets!
Like Trin said in M3: "I'm sick of this ****!"

Instead of calling ppl noobs in a very condescending way, why not share ur enlightened views on the movies with all of us, so that we can all benefit from it.

Originally posted by tpfkanep
Did I say YOU said the matrix was only about NEO.
EYE said that.

Why do you have to defend yourself so? I was not even attacking ur post whitefire. Did you not see my [:-)]?

Lighten up! Live and let live. There is no need for this discussion to turn sour.

Yes, I am a noob, and PROUD of it. And I am not AFRAID/TERRIFIED/PETRIFIED of any of you so called matrix vets!
Like Trin said in M3: "I'm sick of this ****!"

Instead of calling ppl noobs in a very condescending way, why not share ur enlightened views on the movies with all of us, so that we can all benefit from it.

Yeah sorry about that. I'm no vet either. If your percieving me as one of those geeks that thinks his postcount gives him some type of power to look down on newbies then your wrong.

I think n00b is quite a funny word though, it's the first time i've called anyone a n00b and i just wanted to do it.

Don't get so offended, i didn't mean it. Thanks for caring about 'this discussion' aswell. It shows your geniunely looking for answers.

(oh, and as for an 'enlightened view' i don't have one. I'm just like you : trying to work this riddle out.)

Great!

For every end, there is a new beginning.
Cheers.

Ha, that's okay. Check out the first thread by Spyder on this page, it should help.