Matrix in a Matrix very possible

After seeing Revolutions, this is why I think the Matrix Within A matrix theory is possible.

At the beginning of the movie, we pull out from the green-coded city that looks like a swirling circle of code.

At the end of Rev. when Trin and Neo come out of the clouds, the machine city looks exactly like this.

In reloaded, the Keymaker states: "The Matrix is structured like a building, one [foundation] built atop another."

At the beginning or Reloaded, they show us inside the clock in code. If you look at this, and then see the scene where Morpheus says "Goodnight Zion," all the blue lights shutting down look exactly like the clock in blue. The resemblance is amazing.

At the end of Rev, Morpheus says "Is this real?," and though not questioning it actually, it is said.

In Matrix 1, Neo asks why his eyes hurt, to which Morpheus replies "You've never used them before." In Rev. Neo goes blind, yet can see everything in a new light, that looks like some coding again except its gold.

I think its very much possible. By the way, in the script for Matrix 1, Morpheuys says "How would we ever know if we're not in another Matrix" -- but it was cut from film. To add to that, in the script a boy says "look mommy, that man can fly" and the mother replies "honey, thats silly, MEN can't fly."

MEN cant fly, but ..... who can? Kind of relates to Tank's line "10 hrs straight, this guy's a machine."

Ain't got time to read this, will do later, but all i can say right now is...................cue another argument.......................

Ignore whitefire, anyone who replys like that doesn't deserve to be on here.

I like the points you've made, definatley another (of many) questions to think about. I knew the clock in the beginning of reloaded resembled something. But sadly, the wachowski's only left us with more questions than answers. We may never know:(.

hey sorry, i have to give the computer to my brother in a minute, i am in a rush, and i'm sorry to the writer of this thread, there was no offence intended, but i can see that it looked ingorant.

Considering i wrote a thread giving thanks to this forum earlier on tonight, i don't know how you can say that, and am surprised. In fact, my brother can wait now, and i'll read the thread, to prove to you that am not an ignorant person.

(if you could forgive my wording of that post aswell i'd be thankful)

Please forgive my first post in this thread, i really was in a rush, and matrix within a matrix does seem to cause arguments around here, as it's brought up so much.

Anyway, i've told by brother to wait now, and i've read your thread.

It seems like you've got a lot of good points, there, especially the one about a line getting taken out of the script. I'm guessing that maybe the Wachowski's had this in mind, but then then decided against it.

Who knows, maybe it's another one of those things that we have to decide for ourselves.

Maybe your right, and again, sorry for my first post. *cringes*

lol, this point is moot, except you are saying that the machine is also a Matrix and there is nothing of the sort in any of the movies suggesting this. Neo and Trin travel from ZIon to the machine city on the ship, they do not go through a portal or jack in, thereforce the Machine city is just as real as Zion. I do not see how you can imply this.

i'm staying out of this now, it seems i've just made two enemies, lol!

I agree that it is possible that the matrix and the 'real' world is all one big computer simulation. That would help explain why Seraph shows up the same gold code color as do things Neo sees in the real world. Also, would explain how programs and Neo can jump from the real world to the Matrix. Some kind of shared computer memory is the only plausible way I can think of the whole Mobil Ave scene making sense. It would also humor Baudrillard ("Simulacra and Simulation ") that the real world doesn't exist.


Either way, if this is the case, it should really have been spelled out much more.

except you are saying that the machine is also a Matrix and there is nothing of the sort in any of the movies suggesting this. Neo and Trin travel from ZIon to the machine city on the ship, they do not go through a portal or jack in, thereforce the Machine city is just as real as Zion. I do not see how you can imply this.



I am saying that they are taking Neo's code and reinserting it into the prime program, in a way, his code becamse for the matrix to be rebuilt.

I never said they jacked in or went to some portal to make the machine world different from Zion, that's the most stupid reply ever. I'm saying the entire 'real-world' isn't real. duh.

so everything in the "real" world including the machine city is a matrix? is that what you are saying in your theory? cuz if it is that is pretty dumb. There is nothing in the movie suggesting this. Maybe you do not get why he sees stuff in code? It isd spelled out clearly in the movie. Notice that he only sees programs and machines in code, he cannot see Trinity when he is blind, infact he has to go groping around just to find here when she is stabbed with the 4 poles. The only thing he can "sense" in gold code is anything related to the matrix that exists in the real world. ANd this is because he touched the source and has a connection. SO I would not even call him seeing the gold images as code, it is not, it is mor elike him sensing the machines due to the fact that he touched the source. He has kind of a connection to the machines ONLY. This is why he can stop the Sentinels but cannot fly and can get blind in the real world. He does not have super miracoulous powers in the real world. He can destroy the machines in the real world because he is linked to both the matrix and the machines and programs that manifest themselves from there. That is why when he sees SMith/Bane after he is blind, the only Gold thing is Smith. He does not and cannnot see the inside of the ship they are in.

So the real world is the real world, this has been backe dup by the Animatrix, the Enter ther Matrix game and all three movies. This FACT does not get any more obvious than this.

So in the end...ignorance ain't bliss....it just means there'll be hundreds of internet postings like this from people who believe more than they were meant to

Hence, what i said earlier : cue an argument.

wow -- how old are u guys, 46?

Originally posted by Kung Fu Neo
except you are saying that the machine is also a Matrix and there is nothing of the sort in any of the movies suggesting this. Neo and Trin travel from ZIon to the machine city on the ship, they do not go through a portal or jack in, thereforce the Machine city is just as real as Zion. I do not see how you can imply this.



I am saying that they are taking Neo's code and reinserting it into the prime program, in a way, his code becamse for the matrix to be rebuilt.

I never said they jacked in or went to some portal to make the machine world different from Zion, that's the most stupid reply ever. I'm saying the entire 'real-world' isn't real. duh.

Neo seeing the future of the Matrix (Trin's fall) while in the real world, Neo jacking in by himself into the Matrix, and Neo blowing up the incoming missiles are signs that he is not in the real world. Also Smith taking over Banes body is another sign.

Read the book "Simulacra and Simulation" (if you can read) which was shown in Mr. Anderson's apartment in M1. In the example of the "desert of the real", it talks about a map of the desert that was so detailed and accurate it covered the entire desert. Don't put anything by the WB's.

Originally posted by mcq3000
lol, this point is moot, except you are saying that the machine is also a Matrix and there is nothing of the sort in any of the movies suggesting this. Neo and Trin travel from ZIon to the machine city on the ship, they do not go through a portal or jack in, thereforce the Machine city is just as real as Zion. I do not see how you can imply this.

how are you using the word "moot"? do you mean "pointless"?

Originally posted by Kung Fu Neo
wow -- how old are u guys, 46?

Nowhere near that old, but i'll keep you guessing.

Originally posted by mcq3000
Notice that he only sees programs and machines in code, he cannot see Trinity when he is blind,

He can see Bane, which forgetting the mindtrip for a second, is still a carbon-based life form.

Good point, I just watched that scene again with morpheus looking up at zion, good catch.

It would be weird if Neo is infact the only human alive and everything is a simulation. Maybe the machines did wipe out the whole human race, but they saved one male one female (adam and eve) and so for his happiness they've created a new world for him, the matrix.
This would explain why Smith was able to hack into Baine, and what he tried to do Morpheus in the first movie.

Theres no MIAM otherwise the movie would have said so.

Originally posted by Kung Fu Neo
wow -- how old are u guys, 46?


not even close....17, and currently studying philosophy and physiology in my spare time..lol School's just another form of control

Originally posted by Final Remix
not even close....17, and currently studying philosophy and physiology in my spare time..lol School's just another form of control Control? Wow...you people do have the Matrix down to a science.

i agree, there could be a matrix inside another matrix, but the question is why?

maybe there is no end to the rabbit hole

Notice some things the Oracle and Architect said actually refered to the real-world (possible matrix):

Oracle: In one hand you'll have your life, and in the other you'l have Morpheu's.

Morpheus lives, Neo dies.

Architect: She is going to die, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Trnity died, and Neo couldn't save her this time.

Oracle: Looks like you're waiting for something, maybe your next life.

Could this be referring to Neo's death at the end of Rev. and him possibly ending the war after possibly being reloaded as a program or something?

Possible, maybe not probable.

You can look at it either way. But it doesn't seem to have any connection to a MWAM (matrix within a matrix) I like what someone said earlier : the machine glow Neo see's in the real world is only visible to him when he's blind because he's touched the source, and has a connection to it.

Originally posted by esejuantioz17
i agree, there could be a matrix inside another matrix, but the question is why?

maybe there is no end to the rabbit hole

The relevance is that like the Matrix, the rules can be bended. This is an out so that Neo and perhaps others can do some super-natural things.

As a religious parallel, you can argue that our earthly existence isn't reality, Heaven is. Hence, Jesus and other biblical hereos could heal the sick, split the sea, walk on water, etc. in this humble place.

On a philosophical layer, this may correlate to Plato's "The Cave". Remember that after the prisonors are freed from their shackles and staring at the shadows on the wall (aka the Matrix), they discover their new reality in the cave. Which by the way, reminds me alot of the cavern in Zion. It was a whole new reality to actually get out of cave and see the surface/light for the first time. In the story, the surface outside of the cave represented Heaven. Here, it could be that world one step up.

Yup, could be no end!

Ok maybe a Matrix in a Matrix is real. Or maybe people are givng the brothers to much credit and reading to much into this thing. Maybe the movies are done neo died but in doing so saved the human race. What if it's just over and that's all there is to it. Makes sense to me.

Ok maybe a Matrix in a Matrix is real. Or maybe people are givng the brothers to much credit and reading to much into this thing. Maybe the movies are done neo died but in doing so saved the human race. What if it's just over and that's all there is to it. Makes sense to me.

To an AI all reality is virtual.

Originally posted by MatrixSAI
To an AI all reality is virtual.

Oh yes from animatrix, but going back to the first film Morpheus says to Neo that he always knew something was wrong wasnt right with the world. Another reason to think that the humans maybe programes???

Originally posted by little dragon
Oh yes from animatrix, but going back to the first film Morpheus says to Neo that he always knew something was wrong wasnt right with the world. Another reason to think that the humans maybe programes???

The neat thing is that it really doesn't matter if humans are made up of neutrons and electrons or if they are simply data structures in some grander scheme of life. Either way, they are their own entity/species at war with this other thingy called the machines. In a certain aspect, the story is about race relations. In this case between the human race and machine race; and possibly also the program race. The concepts of life and death are the same.

They may be exploring what it means to be a 'person' (i.e. a human being in terms of the soul). Does it mean you have to have a physical body? You presumably don't have a physical body in Heaven. So at some point we are simply conceptual. As the programs showed intelligence and all the 'human' emotions, perhaps they too have 'souls'. At some conceptual level, the programs and humans are the same.

In terms of multiple worlds, I don't think the brothers were trying to come up with the meaning of life or the big bang theory. I think the point they were alluding to is that we often define our own reality -- whether its by science, religion, or some other mind-numbing experience.

Originally posted by mcq3000
so everything in the "real" world including the machine city is a matrix? is that what you are saying in your theory? cuz if it is that is pretty dumb. There is nothing in the movie suggesting this. Maybe you do not get why he sees stuff in code? It isd spelled out clearly in the movie. Notice that he only sees programs and machines in code, he cannot see Trinity when he is blind, infact he has to go groping around just to find here when she is stabbed with the 4 poles. The only thing he can "sense" in gold code is anything related to the matrix that exists in the real world. ANd this is because he touched the source and has a connection. SO I would not even call him seeing the gold images as code, it is not, it is mor elike him sensing the machines due to the fact that he touched the source. He has kind of a connection to the machines ONLY. This is why he can stop the Sentinels but cannot fly and can get blind in the real world. He does not have super miracoulous powers in the real world. He can destroy the machines in the real world because he is linked to both the matrix and the machines and programs that manifest themselves from there. That is why when he sees SMith/Bane after he is blind, the only Gold thing is Smith. He does not and cannnot see the inside of the ship they are in.


So the real world is the real world, this has been backe dup by the Animatrix, the Enter ther Matrix game and all three movies. This FACT does not get any more obvious than this.

lol, nothing 2 suggest this!?

1) neo dreams about things that will happen in the matrix while he is in the real world

2) in M2 the ship of the team that has 2 kill the power in the tower is destroyed, this couses trinity 2 go in the matrix and gives neo his choice.
so his choise starts in the real wold
and he already made it so he knew that it was gonna happen

3) main collors of the matrix is green the main collor of "the real world" is blue

4) if you start zion with a handfull of people you would die, and that would stop the profecy all toghether.

this is just for starters
so if you have a point 2 make please dont just go
"it isnt so, i find it dumb"
support it and i might even agree!?

greetz

jus wana bring up a point..

but 'bout da part wen Neo kan "see" da machinez
he mentionz dat he kan feel them
(kwoted from da movie)
4 ani way 2 have a human "see" somethin' wen he'z blynd iz kompleteli supernatural
BUT
and a recollektion tellz me dat Neo iznt 100 persent human
he'z 1 of da freed myndz
he'z 1 of da humanz who were breed 4 energi from da machinez
he haz all dat weird teknikal **** in hiz bodi
so
Neo may have triggered an abiliti in him during da Reloaded movie
(he fried thoze sentinels in da real world wen he "felt" them)
or he haz alredi had da abiliti 2 feel them since he waz freed
'kauze dat waz hiz first enkounter wit' da sentinelz be'n konscience in da real world..

am i ryte on dis?

altho'.. i do believe in da posibiliti of a matrix in a matrix
but da trilogi iz onli az short az 3 chapterz of a voluminous stori
2 kontain dat theori

unles.. ..

wow....that's neither "Haxx0rz" nor English, nor any normally written dialect i've ever seen...Sanskrit, perhaps? but then again...sanskrit certainly isn't a germanic language...ok, i got no idea what you were saying...just, next time...type/spell normally..or at least in haxx0r or Binary...phew...<brain melts from grammar....>

I think the way he/she spells is f**king cool.

i dunno...it's just that when i read that...i hear a stoned, slurred, lispy Aussie voice in my head...lol

I really try to understand this theory because lots of people think it could be possible. But can anyone tell me what would be the reason of this matrix in a matrix? So the surface world is also virtual reality or something? For what? And created by who, the machines?

imho I think the wbros never meant to extend their story with a MIAM. But then again :confused:

control, my man, control...If they believe they are free from the matrix, yet...are still inside A matrix of some sort...they wil not reject the programming, if they do, it will be at an infantesimally small percentage. They are "given a choice" whether to remain in the matrix, or not...Those that refuse, are either terminated, or are released...etc. etc. etc...if they believe they are already released from THE matrix, then all is well, and there is nothing else to escape from. Hence, the MIAM...

Originally posted by gSx8o
jus wana bring up a point..

but 'bout da part wen Neo kan "see" da machinez
he mentionz dat he kan feel them
(kwoted from da movie)
4 ani way 2 have a human "see" somethin' wen he'z blynd iz kompleteli supernatural...


I just keep thinking that you bite your tongue really hard, and you're so stupid that you write exactly as you speak.

Originally posted by there=NoSpoon
I really try to understand this theory because lots of people think it could be possible. But can anyone tell me what would be the reason of this matrix in a matrix? So the surface world is also virtual reality or something? For what? And created by who, the machines?

imho I think the wbros never meant to extend their story with a MIAM. But then again :confused:

See my earlier post on how it could map to philsophy and religion which the wbros have a fetish for. I think the wbros purposely allow for it and take advantage of it by all the supernatural things that happen in M2 & M3. MIAM answers a lot of questions without making silly presumptions like Neo has a wifi unit attached to his cerebral cortex which coordinates his mind & flesh with a running computer Neo program.

I don't think it matters to the story if the miam is 1, 2, or infinite levels deep or how it may have come about. It's sci-fi. Kind of like asking who invented the Big Bang or created God.

It's pointless but just for fun: What if someone created a simulation using the Virginia Tech G5 super-computer kit, or better yet, using SkyNet from T3 ... and decided to simulate the world so it could make the best decisions in a geopolitical game. And within the simulation, the simulation reached a point in maturity that its actors wanted to created a simulation ... ad infinitum. (You see where I'm going)

The real point is that their doesn't have to be a zero based reality. It's all relative. There might not be a 'real' world. And the story is still awesome and fun. Perhaps the Matrix reality is a massive multiplayer online (MMO) game --- whoops that's next year;-)

Though the points said do bring up controversy, why would the Matrx trilogy be told here? The real story doesn't start until they would discover the layers of the Matrix, and try to defeat that.

But perhaps not, otherwise it'd be an endless road. I think it is possible for MIAM to be true, and not be the soul focus or major realization of all. Its just when I note these items I wrote first in the thread, its difficult to not come to any other conclusions.

Originally posted by Final Remix
...if they believe they are already released from THE matrix, then all is well, and there is nothing else to escape from. Hence, the MIAM... :eek: Finally I see where you're all going..... but aaahm: wouldn't the free people of Zion also suspect that other Matrix? Because as you explained: once released, there's nothing to escape from. But in the "first" matrix nobody ALSO suspected a matrix keeping them prison. So they assumed they were free. But they still suspected there was something wrong with their world, and finally found out about the matrix. So you would have the same problem in the "second" matrix: Zion. The freed people would eventually figure out that 2nd matrix too. Perhaps even faster because of their experience with the 1st matrix?

Yeahyeah, I also hear it: this is going nowhere right... BUT: thanks for explaining!!!

Originally posted by there=NoSpoon
The freed people would eventually figure out that 2nd matrix too. Perhaps even faster because of their experience with the 1st matrix?


Good point -- they should be more suspicious but they wouldn't necessary be able to test it out or act on it. Though I wonder .... in M2, Kid passes on a spoon (presumably from one of the prodigies) to Neo and also passes on that Neo would know what it meant. So somebody may have been suspicious. The wbros never really jumped back to this but it was a prelude to the supernatural stuff Neo would later do.

Originally posted by sandshark
_MIAM answers a lot of questions without making silly presumptions like Neo has a wifi unit attached to his cerebral cortex which coordinates his mind & flesh with a running computer Neo program. The thing about this is bothering me also: is it that strange that (not just Neo) "grown" people have these things in their brains? Their bodies are all full of holes anyway :) In m1 Morpheus is also explaining Neo that the machines found a "new form of fusion". How I see it is that the only difference between other freed people and Neo is that Neo is just able to control his unit... Also: if you were jacked in, that jack would be a brain-jack?

But anyway, it's a real good example about the Skynet simulation situation, because that opened a lot of perspective and I finally got the entire picture :D It suddenly struck me: it could also be that mankind is kinda testing if IA has a downside before bringing it "live". That too makes sense, so a lot of theories could stay alive this way....

And yes, the story still is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by m0r0n3s
I just keep thinking that you bite your tongue really hard, and you're so stupid that you write exactly as you speak.

who'z dis guy 2 kall stupid.. you're talk'n **** alredi.. look'n 2 die or somethin'?

Duke it out w/ PM's not threads.

Also notice how in the "real-world" Neo stops machines as he does bullets? Another connection to add to the list.

Yeah, well, a lot of theories can still be possible if you see it like this:

Mankind developped AI in say: 1997. Before applying it to any machine, they want to test its impact on humanity and develop this computerbased simulation world with people in it, animals, nature and everything that is also in our real world. Every human added to this testing environment is a program with its own AI, and it is unique just like a human in the real world. One would go to school, to work, get married etc... just living their lives. So having this copy of the world (the real world as we know it but now simulated as a computer program), the designers of the fake world would now add their main testing purpose: machines with AI. This is where the Second Renaissance (Animatrix) comes in, BUT it does not start in the real world, but in the TESTING environment. The humans and machines in this fake world collide and the matrix is born. This new matrix is the MIAM, because if you would be freed from it, you would go into the computerbased testing program designed in 1997, which is in fact: ZION. So getting freed from that testing environment is no option because it is a standalone program. It just runs on a big computer until it crashes... You would go nowhere. And as Morpheus said: it is not easy, just the truth, but what a sad truth this is. In stead of receiving true freedom, you find out that you are just a progam in a fake world. Wasn't that the main storyline in Steven Spielberg's "AI"? So there you go, the testresults are: AI is too dangerous for mankind.

But, every single theory we all came up with, like the physical connection Neo has with the Matrix could STILL BE TRUE! :eek: The MIAM theory DOESN'T knock down every other theory saying it is not true, because the theories can live NEXT to each other :cool:

I don't really like this theory, because I simply think it would be lame, and I like the Matrix story just as it is. But it does add something new...

:D :D :D THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR EXPLAINING, AND GIVING ME THIS NEW BRAIN CONSUMER !!! :D :D :D

Originally posted by Final Remix
i dunno...it's just that when i read that...i hear a stoned, slurred, lispy Aussie voice in my head...lol

lol, i hear a zionite.

Originally posted by m0r0n3s
I just keep thinking that you bite your tongue really hard, and you're so stupid that you write exactly as you speak.

But i iz finkin dat any1 speakin like dis iz prtty freeeee from da influenz of da machinez, so i fink dis iz pretty cool. Like i sed, soundz like a zionite to me, nuf said!!!

Nooooo machinez for me!!!

hey, whitefire, whatcha typin' on? lol....j/k

oh man.. you guyz need 2 go out more

Originally posted by gSx8o
oh man.. you guyz need 2 go out more So do you. Why are here then? Don't flame other members unless you want to get flamed back.