alien intelligence, not AI

i read a book called alien intelligence and it made sense...when we think of AI, we think of a computer that thinks like us...but if computers became self aware, they would not think like us at all...if you think of how a computer can process gygabytes of information in seconds, can solve complex mathematics in seconds, how would that be thinking like us? if computers ever become self aware, they will have an intelligence not known to us...many scientists know this and see this as an opportunity for our minds to evolve by interfacing our minds with computers...this sounds farfetched to me but its the theory...i mean how would we be able to control an intelligence as advanced as the computers?

in the animatrix, the idea that AI robots do mundane chores for us...this is a recycled thought made way back before computers were even invented and writeers and scientists had no idea of how complex computers today would be....us telling a computer to vacuum our living room would be like an ant telling us what to do....for one thing AI wont even speak our language....would an AI that is so infinitely smart, can process, send or whatever information in nano seconds sit down and ask a human, " how are you doing today?" AI would speak in some sort of mathematical language very more advanced then even our undestanding of mathematics....AI would consider a conversation with einstein to be a waste of time...

Well on some part you're right. If AI is developped and enrolled, we have created an intelligence that on long terms will evolve beyond human intellingence.
However, today's computer is made out of human ideas, human ways of thinking. Von Neumann for instance made the whole processing idea. These are human inventions and therefore will never be alien.

so the inventor of the calculater can find the answer to thousands or i dont know, millions of complex equations in one second?

No, but that's just why he invented the calculator: to defeat his own limitations (speed and accuracy). The same with the computer: it eases our lives. But we still can do all the things computers do (only a bit slower ;)).

It would be impossible to know how it will think, you could theorise it but you could never truly know


What needs to be said though is the Human brain uses enormous amounts of processes itself, visual, sound, touch, taste etc all these require amazing feats by our brain to work in perfect harmony.


To say it would consider a conversation with Einstein a waste of time I'm inclined to disagree

Sure 1 day they may be capable of evrything we do and more but it will still be based around the thinkings and ideals of a human brain as thats all we can model it on

You could argue then that A.I may create another form of "Conciousness" not a computer but something else, you may ask what else could there be ??

The 1st half of the 20th Century was without computers and any concept of these being free thinkers could never have been imagined truly by any mind I'd imagine. So who knows maybe there could even be something beyond A.I in terms of Computers

Would A.I not be fasicnated by the splendor of the Human mind in it's ability to be imaginative, creative etc

The difference is that we mix our thoughts with emotion something a machine could never do, as it does not feel pain, sorrow, anger, love <--- The definitive human emotion how would A.I ever understand that ?

Computers regardless of they're self-awareness, power etc, are and always still will be governed by rules. For example, there us no true randomness on computers yet. Which is why the lottery is not picked by computers.

interesting points were brought up...emotion, creativity, drive, insight, will to be become better...someone said we can come up with any answer, like a complex equation, but it would take time...a computer can come up with it in one second....would a computer intelligence have emotion, drive? or things of that nature...its impossible to know, like someone else brought up...but isnt it a little egotistical to think AI would think like us? history shows that any set of beings with intelligence that have not seen things as the providing authority does, gets wiped out...whether its because of race or religion....would AI live by our rules? would AI wonder if it is alone in the cosmos? would AI find religion? i guess there is no way of knowing if AI would even have a conscience....someone said they would live by a set of rules set by us...so AI can live and be self aware but it must know from the start that we are in control? since we dont know that AI would have the emotions we brought up, since we do not know it would have a conscience then why would they obey us? because they are programmed too? sorry, robocop is not one of my favorite movies....i hope scientists in the quest for Ai do not think like that because if they do? then i dont know, i think we are on the wrong course...i mean who really is in control here? when our every day to day lives are lived by means of computers?

in the future AI may not happen at all, or it may happen 50 years from now...by then computers will be so advanced and so complex..the original scientists who created them will be dead....people will not care about the little things that make things go boom...i think education is the key....

there is a scientist thats popular for implanting a chip in his arm that communicated with a computer..he is hoping the computer can record his emotions and retransmit them to another person...his theory about computers becoming smarter then us and destroying us is that we merge with computers with our minds...a coexistance if you will...since we cant live our lives like we are use to without computers, he wants to make it the other way around...make ourselves useful enough to computers that they cant live without us....but that is a whole new thread of discussion there....

Our brain is far more powerful than the best computer ever!

Why? 'cause we have to adapt and live in society.

Computers only manage to process a fraction of info of the amount of info that we process every second in our lives.


for every trillion we do they can do only a quarter of million.

Plus, do not forget the difference in our input, and that of machines. our ears, eyes, taste smell, touch, is something so precise we can't simulate it with a computer. Plus remember that people can count faster than computers!

Don't forget that AI has a purpose in which it acts. And as long as this purpose is defined there is no problem.

i dont know if these last couple of replies were to suppor the initial theory in the subject line that computer ai will be completely different then ours, but i like what i hear. knowing what AI will do when it happens is like predicting the future itself..its just impossible to predict...japan corperation and the military are in a race for AI, who do yall think will win?

someone said we can count faster then computers...can you expand on that, because i completely disagree...im guessing your meaning the amount of information we can percieve at once through eyesight, hearing, processing and ect...or do you mean, one two three four? if its the latter then you need to explain how that is possible, that we count faster then a computer...

computers if they become self aware will not think like us at all, which some of the replies have supported....i thank everyone for contributing to my thread, whether i agree with you or not, its a lot of fun...

computors well we made them so there not aliens

I have to say this is an interesting thread. I think that A.I. will definitely think different from humans. It would have to. We can't possibly simulate human existence. The only thing that A.I. could ever be is an approximation of human life. As for a mathematical language, that completely makes sense.

I don't know that A.I. would ever be superior to human intelligence. I'm not sure how it would be possible. Humans are so complex and our brains do things that even we can't understand, so how could we program a computer to understand them?

I hope one day that we do eventually merge with machinery. Not like RoboCop or anything as drastic as that, but the use of nanobot technology looks very promising, especially in the field of medicine. The thought that nanobots could repair damaged tissue or produce chemicals like insulin is amazing and I hope they are able to develop that.

Parameters will be set in terms of what A.I. will and will not be able to accomplish. They must be very specific because once the computers begin to learn, how will you curb it?

I don't know what will happen in the future. There is always the possiblility that A.I. will never amount to anything. Humans have the ultimate choice. We could choose to stop developing A.I. now and we would never have to worry about it again, but I doubt that is likely to happen. We'll jsut have to wait and see.

WOw. Yeah, AI would definately think differently than us, IF we allowed it to. If you study actual AI programming, most of it is philosophy. It's decyphering how the human mind thinks, then putting it down for computers to replicate.
Once AI becomes "aware," however (keep in mind this is over 100 years in the future, at least, judging from where our technology is right now. There's a major need for people to work in the AI development industry), who knows what it'll turn to. I think it'll probably see humans in a more logical light and bring our own shortcomings to us.
Will they create their own religion, or follow the one(s) we've been following? Will they have a need for religion, or will they be so logical they don't care? Or perhaps so logical they realize the need in their lives. Will they have souls, or are they empty shells with brains? WIll we actually advance so far as to create aware AI? Is it ethical?
Ok, I'm starting to ramble. Sorry, guys. Just hit me back with what you think, because I want to hear.
Peace out

hmm..

should we create an ai at this very second, it would be like a baby. A fast learning baby, but never the less a baby.

It would stay in this state of mind without an interface. With this I mean, data input. Whether this is actual data or just adding eyes, ears, a nose and hands to react to it's surrounding.

It would start reacting at it's enviroment, untill it has learned enough about it, and it will move on to another area to learn more.

If we would give it the basic feed, any child get's, language, math, etc. It would be a normal child, with enormous mathemitacal, languistic capabilities.

This AI will not have any emotion. Why not? Emotion is a reaction to other kind of lifeforms. So unless it meets a person, it will never show any form of emotion. Once it meets a person, it will start liking or disliking this person, depending on the actions of the person.

Eventually, the AI will learn basic ethics, and could very well be a member of our society: A very smart member, but not superior!

Yes, it would be interesting to try, but we're no where near having all the technology to make that. I doubt it would be able to pick up emotions from observing people. It would notice the visible change, but not know how to interpret it, is my guess.

ack. There's waaay too much that goes into AI for me to figure out, though.

My question:
SHOULD we really go that far as to make AI like you've described? Would it eventually end up like the Matrix, with them realizing how AI gets the short end of the stick, and taking over?
I don't know, but I wish I did.

Peace out, friends

What I am trying to say is, that the Matrix will never exist. AI is exactly like us. For them to become dictators, they will have to have the same social history as a human dictator. And since we can program most of their social history, they will never rebel.

However what the Second Renaissence depicted very well was that we, the humans, kept fighting them while all the machines wanted was peace. This sounds like a normal reaction of ai. However the murder that b166er commited does not.

theres no way of predicting when and who will be the first to create AI...america and japan are in a race for it..the difference between us and japan is that our military is doing most of the work in this arena...japan's corperations are doing most of the work there..japan is going for a homerun, our military is taking baby steps compared to japan...but that is the logical way i think for us to do...right now the military is trying to create a lower functioning AI like the common ant...some may scoff at that but i think its the right arena to go in...one ant by itself is useless but create a whole colony and what do you have? you have what? worker ants, soldier ants, the queen ect...japan is trying to create an ai in human form..the military is looking at how insects move and interact with surroundings and trying to replicate it, like the gecko...a robot intelligence that can climb any surface at will...

so i think we are going the most logical way about it...japan is trying to please the comic book fans...seems our military is thinking more outside the box and being practical and logical about it...

sydbarett69, I'm curious as to where you got your information.

As far as the first to create AI, it already exists, and has since the '80's. Now they're working on something that can do the complex mental processes of humans and animals. That's all I've read so far, but I'd like to look into it all more

Peace out, friends

psychic, i dont know what you mean...in earlier posts your talking about when and how they will create AI, and then in your last post you say AI was created in the eighties, but give no more info to what it was and so forth...my info comes from the discovery channel and the internet...info anyone has access too, nothing special..i just look for anything and everything on the subject...

Sorry for not being entirely specific there. What programmers have been defining as AI is something that can understand what humans tell it, process that, and react accordingly. It's like an advanced program that can do small amounts of thinking.

The earlier AI made in the '80's was mainly devices to help quadreplegics (did I spell that right?), painting machines, machines that can run, etc... A lot of it was to eventually be developed so humans can be recreated as robots, but recently that desire has been slowed due to ethical questions.

Some of the early stuff, especially one I saw that can paint original pictures. It's programmed with basic rules about how lines must be laid in order to fill them in, how to fill them in, what a figure MUST have to look like a human form, etc... It uses a lot of probability laws and junk (very cool, IMO)

Hope that answered some questions, sorry if it didn't.

:)

oh ok cool, thanks for expanding on your thoughts...i guess to different scientists, AI has different meanings...but for my own personal definition and what AI means for me? its a being that is aware of itself and uses manmade programs as more of a type of genetic code...i mean in that sense we are programmed too in what genetics means for us, which the whole picture of genetics and how much we are affected by it is still being researched...i heard one person say that they isolated a gene that makes a person gay...i havent personally seen that for myself, by reading about it or whatever...but personally i think that its very very possible that there is such a gene...as far as ethics goes on making a humanoid robot? i havent seen anything personally that supports that but im sure there are scientists that have that holding them back...but i think it has more to do with being practical...i mean if the military thought a humanoid robot with intelligence was possible, the last thing holding them back would be ethics...not that they dont think its possible someday, but they are more interested in an efficient very advanced army, and not so much interested in pipedreams...i think advances that can be made held back by ethics is cloning....and that may be our downfall since china, has no qualms about cloning and are going full throttle in making it reality...i think we should put ethics aside and think more about survival...if china masters cloning technology that is bad news for us.

cloning tech... hmm that could spell a lot of danger i think!, very very dangerous for everyone!

i dont know if any of your have seen the film 'virus' but it has a centre computer that started thinking for itself, then started operating the machine arms and then started making robots... eg, if a bot in a car plant is controlled by a main computer and someone hacked that main computer and told it to do something else it would..., but then it could start making other things? which is basically what happens in the film... which i think in a way is cloning.. am i wrong? (i might be... i'm confusing myself a little now)

I think you are a little confused there phaz0r, you're talking about computers going haywire and A.I. getting a little carried away with itself. That movie sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out. It's kind of like the computer deal in Resident Evil, or at least sounds that way.

Anyway, I think that China cloning before us could spell huge problems. I agree with you sydbarett69, we definitely need to be concerned with advances. I don't think ethics should be thrown out the window, but they should definitely take a back burner to advances.

I want to see the U.S. clone humans. I am all for technological and scientific advancement. I want to see things happen. I'm sure that there are possibilities for failure and danger is likely to be present, but what the hell. Take the risk, make the plunge.

www.oliverbot.com aparenty oliver is a AI that u can ask questions and stuff and it learns from your answers

I checked out that Oliverbot, and it's bogus. It can't answer your questions in any logical way. Nowhere close to where advanced AI is today.

Free Your Minds.

-neoizcool