Are you a left wing or a right wing kinda guy/garl?

After seeing the speech Michael Moore from Vancouver (picked it off KAZAA) I started wondering which political ideals everyone REALLY supports.. well, I'm voting left...

Well, Left and Right mean different things in Israel than in the rest of the world.
I'm all for social-democracy and liberalism but I don't agree with negotiating with the Palestinians until they get a proper leadership devoid of terrorists and here I guess that makes me right...

I'm a neo-marxist nihilistic anarchist with socialist aspirations.

Is there anyone here who is a communist or lives under a communist government.(Or someone who believes in Marxism)

I'm a liberal...let be and let live...welfare state and all that jazz...

I live in Taiwan, which - according to China - is under their rule, but the reality is so, so, so different, no matter how many missiles they line-up against us...

Isn't Taiwan considered the REAL China, and China is considered RED China? I was led to believe that Taiwan was where the actual Chinese government fled to, when Communism arose in China. Correct me if I am worng.

I would happily correct you if you were worng, but in this instance you are right.

However, that period of time was many moons ago and there is now a Taiwanese president and a growing feeling amongst the people of being 'Taiwanese' and not 'Chinese'.

I was wondering, is Cuba still a communist state?

Yes it indeed is. As for my political ideal/view/wing...I march to the beat of a different drum

HU and smith_fan, I know going along with Moore is fun and all, but the guy has his own agenda. Most of which I agree with, however please remember that much was edited out of his upcoming movie Farenheit 911 and only what he wants you to know is left in. The parts left in do make you think, though.

Overall, I agree with left wing ideas, but I hate to see people taking advantage of welfare like they do now. I think that you should have a limited period for being on welfare or disability, because I've seen some people on disablity that are not really disabled, unless you notice that they are morbidly obese and can't stand up, that's pretty much the extent of their disablity. Were their food stamps to run out, they could starve themselves back to being 'abled'. This is just an example of people who don't need to be on disability. Everyone thinks they deserve something for nothing, that they deserve 15 dollars an hour to sit on their ass and pretend to be working. I'd rather have a job where I do a lot and make nothing, just out of boredom, but that's just me. And I'm rambling. So... GO LEFT!

i am a middle extremist.

im only 14 so im central, hence i cant vote, so there is no point for me to be worried about that right now, maybe wen i get a little bit older i will start swaying 2 one side or another

HU, you might want to explain what left and right actually mean.

hi im new but my sis is an administrator so yea anyways hi everyone

Welcome to MM Valasher's Bro. I hope you enjoy it here. Make sure you post in the Introductions thread down in the Lounge and don't forget to have fun.:)

there are ideas I agree with from left wing and iddeas I agree with from right wing, Im just a tad bit more liberal but for the sake of it Ill say central for the moment..

"left wing" are liberals "right wing" are conservatives, or maybe I have it turned around.

whats the biggest diference between left and right. in america/english politics ?


i voted RIGHT

Right-wing politicians are liberal, while left-wing politicians are 'socialistic'.

What this means is that Right-wing politicians believe in reducing taxes for entrepreneurs and corporations so that trade fares well. They also believe in mingling as little as possible in the lifes of the citizens.

Left-wing politicians believe in protecting the poor and taxing the rich and taxing corporations to supply the lower classes with basic needs.

Republican and Democratic in political terms has little to do with right/left, but rather with the foundation of government. I won't go into details on this, but stating that in the US replublicans are right-wing, and democrats are left-wing.

Conservatists are people who like things to stay the way they are, and it is generally an insult, since many people feel that change often means progress.

Mr U

If I may corrrect you, HU.

Here, and you were right about this, the Republicans are right wing and the Democrats are left wing.

But the Democrats are liberal and the Republicans are conservative.

And the connotation of liberal in this case is the leaning towards a more socialistic view, or more involvment by the goverment.

The conservative view in this is less government involvment, and a laissez-faire attitude towards the economy.

Hence the Republicans are called conservatives, and the Democrats are called liberals.

A more conservative party would be the Libertarian Party and a more liberal party would be perhaps the Green Party.

I voted left a while ago.

I am for Right Wing, Republicans and/or conservatives, and saying that I have nothing further left to say.

P.S. Thanks NMN for that post you just gave because it gave me a better idea of the whole Left, Right Wing thing.

If I may corrrect you, HU.

Here, and you were right about this, the Republicans are right wing and the Democrats are left wing.

But the Democrats are liberal and the Republicans are conservative.

And the connotation of liberal in this case is the leaning towards a more socialistic view, or more involvment by the goverment.

The conservative view in this is less government involvment, and a laissez-faire attitude towards the economy.

Hence the Republicans are called conservatives, and the Democrats are called liberals.

A more conservative party would be the Libertarian Party and a more liberal party would be perhaps the Green Party.

I voted left a while ago.

Bah. First of all, in political therms that's not what liberal means. Second, I do believe that you know your politics and that you are correct when it comes to American politics. From my personal experience however, liberals are people who strive for little involvement in the Government.

I copied this from a dictionary:
---
Liberal

[n] a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets

Conservatism:

[n] a political orientation advocating the preservation of the best in society and opposing radical changes
---

Now, I'm not trying to prove to you that I am right and that you are wrong, but rather that we are both right and that the American system is just twisted :D.

Oh, if you hadn't read it yet, I probably go into the left category if I am not looking for Utopia ;).

Mr U

I am aware of the denotations of liberal and conservative. I said connotation, however.

But, alas, I hate discussing polotics and political science, so I will say that America has no idea what the hell it is doing and that we are all better off killing ourselves.

and lol what about the extreem left and extreem right thing in american politics ?

They are hardly worth mentioning. Sure, you have extreme left and extreme right, but these are mostly just rednecks who want to change the name of the USA to 'Third Reich' and want to force the president to grow a mustache.

Mr U

Wouldn't that be Fourth Reich?

I may have mentioned something about this earlier, but in Israel, Left and Right oppose on two main subjects (and they are simply called "left" and "right" not all those confusing names) - the economy, and the relationship with the Palestinians. The right wants a liberal economy and is harsher on the Palestinians, willing to give less away and demanding that they take the main first steps, while the left wants more of a social economy and is softer on the Palestinians, willing to take more initiatives and give more away on the assumption that the Palestinians will follow suit.
In Israel, since the Palestinian issue was always the major one, the economic issue has very often been overlooked, that is until last year when the treasury minister implemented a Thatcherian policy, or however you say it, which means that the country will go extra-capitalist, helping the middle and upper classes up and leaving the lower class behind. It's kind of complicated, and according to his claim it's so that the money will come back to Israel after its low recession - so that will actually be money to support the lower class in the long term, but the lower class, single mothers, pensioners, disabled etc. are not impressed, and will probably be voting left next elections due to the economic issue rather than the Palestinian issue.

But that's kind of a problem in Israel, since if you're in favour of the right's policy regarding the Palestinians, and of the left's regarding economy like a lot of people are, it creates a bit of a problem.

Anyway, that's our screwed up system, if you've read this far.

Social Democracy means n e g o t i a t i o n s before wars.
Social Democracy means p e o p l e before power.
Social Democracy means e q u a l i t y before freedom.

sadly, you do not believe in any of these. no matter what excuse or justifcation you may have.

Brezhnev took afghanistan
and Begin took beirut
Galtieri took the union jack

and maggie over lunch one day
took a cruiser with all hands
apparently to make him give it back...

we can add to this:

Assad took beirut
and Bush took iraq
Moshe Dayan took Jordan's west bank

and Sharon, over lunch one day
took the Gaza Strip as real estate
apparantly, he plans to give it back...

I'll leave you to stutter out an excuse, i'm sure you have one...

sadly, you do not believe in any of these. no matter what excuse or justifcation you may have.

Just because someone fits into a category, doesn't mean they entirely agree with the ideals presented by that category. Also, the USSR did not negotiate with Afghanistan when they invaded there.

Actually Freeyourmind, that's exactly the same way we have it. The US system just calls it different, but still has the same ideals. Our left (Holland) is also socialist and our right is also liberal. It's exactly the same, but the US just has the names mixed up :D. Either that or the rest of the world ;).

Mr U

Hmmm. An interesting thread, though I'm still lost. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to economics and democracy, but I do believe that democracy or autocracy is more suited to the country's current state than an ideal. One need not be dominant forever, too.
For the most part, I'll also admit that I'm quite a conservative, in at least as much as being afraid of too many drastic or risky changes.
Now Taiwan, though...that's quite a prickly subject. What do you consider China's true government? In a history that favours the winners, Taiwan's government (and Chiang Kai Shek-sp?) lost the battle for power and got virtually exiled. China's government is no more untrue and false than Taiwan's, though the current separatist headaches arise from more reasons than just nationalism or ideals. Communists aren't always the bad guys, and China has gone a long way from that state.

HU, I think your argument with NMN was based on a misunderstanding. I'm not sure about this, but I think that in English (as opposed maybe to Dutch) the right isn't called a liberal party, but it is said that they are in favour of a liberal economy, which like you said is in favour of less governemntal involvement in businesses and a strengthening of the private sector. However, I think that the right, at least in America, is also conservative (as like Mac said, conserving things the way they are) in matters of religion, sexual freedom, and whatever, I'm running out of subjects, while the democrats would be more liberal about this and allow more freedom. For instance I heard that Bush was fighting the moves to make homosexual marriage legal - that's a conservative move, and liberals would probably allow it.
As for the economy, and Americans connect me if I'm wrong, I think that capitalism being pretty much what America stands for, both parties are pretty strongly liberal. Maybe the democrats are slightly less so.

Mac, I don't even know that much about Iraq so I'm completely clueless about Chine... sorry, can't help there...

HU, I think your argument with NMN was based on a misunderstanding. I'm not sure about this, but I think that in English (as opposed maybe to Dutch) the right isn't called a liberal party, but it is said that they are in favour of a liberal economy, which like you said is in favour of less governemntal involvement in businesses and a strengthening of the private sector.


This doesn't explain why liberal party is not in favor for liberal economics, or liberal government for that matter. Opposed to Math, I have learned most history and politics in English, and the US governmental system makes no sense. NMN's last explanation, however does. George Orwell said that the government would slowly abolish language by making freedom/independence, and other such subjects vague, making it impossible to fight for them. In my vision, they have succeeded in that. Freedom fighters have turned to terrorists and socialists have turned into liberals. It is simply a tactic to draw people away from the goverment program and lull them into the idea that they don't understand politics and should just vote for a pretty face.

However, I think that the right, at least in America, is also conservative (as like Mac said, conserving things the way they are) in matters of religion, sexual freedom, and whatever, I'm running out of subjects, while the democrats would be more liberal about this and allow more freedom. For instance I heard that Bush was fighting the moves to make homosexual marriage legal - that's a conservative move, and liberals would probably allow it.
As for the economy, and Americans connect me if I'm wrong, I think that capitalism being pretty much what America stands for, both parties are pretty strongly liberal. Maybe the democrats are slightly less so.


Being liberal about issues does not make one a liberal, but again, this is what NMN and I discussed, and we came to the agreement that the terms should not be taken to literal.


Mac, I don't even know that much about Iraq so I'm completely clueless about Chine... sorry, can't help there...

China scares me. That's all I'm going to say about it. The idea of them engaging in a full-scale war without anyone stopping them frightenes me. Who knows what the spirit that is Mao will drive them to. We have a dark future ahead of us, if it is not already here.

Mr U

China scares me. That's all I'm going to say about it. The idea of them engaging in a full-scale war without anyone stopping them frightenes me. Who knows what the spirit that is Mao will drive them to. We have a dark future ahead of us, if it is not already here.

That's what I've been trying to say to many guys outside asia, HU. China is way past Mao now. In fact, its the most rapidly growing and evolving superpower, especially economically. It's why they're now called the world's waking dragon. The speed of the rapid and long-awaited modernization and industrialization is what is most scary, though 'amazing' should be the word. It is still conservative, and very government-centred, but given time that may also change. Their competitive spirit - until you're face-to-face with one of their expats, you'll probably never truly understand their drive to succeed; progress. Amazing folk...and undeniably a large part of the future. Nothing like stereotypical media images depict. War is not on their agenda either, but then again like any superpower its not something you'd ask for as well.

I don't know about Mao but most of the criticism I've heard about China has to do with human-rights abuses. The economical expansion and general improvement are all well and good, but if what I hear about the treatment of the citizens there is true, then that is a more important fact for the world media to depict than China's ecomomic success...

I'm definately a liberal. I can't stand the republican tyranny that the United States is facing.

i can see how you all can be liberal? in australia the liberal government is fucked in the ass... our PM has lied to the australian public several times, he has fabricated and protrayed false information to the australian public in two elections he has been lying to australian and defending the interests of the ultrarich and america for eight years now, maybe liberalism is different here, but if you all support this modus of government, you all have the combined intelligence of doorknobs

i CANT see how you can all be liberal, sorry for the spelling... macleod is right about china aswell, that nation is growing so rapidly its causing a whole host of world enviromental issues, pollution, overpopulation, rampart consumerism, the list goes on

Asteron, please use the edit button.

I personally don't like our prime minister, Howard is a short ass little fuckwit in my opinion, however, he has managed to keep our economy pretty damn stable even though the banks have been predicting massive interest rate rises for 7 years.
He has lied his way around these past years and its anyones guess how he's managed to be our longest serving PM (possibly the fact we've been in wars the past 2 elections). I'd love to see Labour in, but under Beazley, not Latham.

sorry bro... nah... lathams okay i guess, beazly was better, sometimes i miss big kim.
i think it wouldve been the shizzle under whitlam. ahhhhh better days... oh well i hope in 3 years were treated with someone who is a little bit less warhungry. its the wars that have kept him in, hes playing the people like you wouldnt beleive dude, lied to us about the tampa incident, lied to us about iraq, now he sits in kirrabilli and drinks tea out of a mug shaped like george bush's head

In the United States, the Liberal parties support the average labor worker. They are for reform and helping the under privileged.

obviously liberals are different there, here liberals are more corrupt than the nation lotto draw... plus, this world has many different definitions of the same words... here liberal means something else, and here freedom means something else too, what does freedom mean in the good old US of A?

Freedom means to be able to do what you want, when you want to (within reason of course) and not have anyone bother you about it. That's what freedom is in my opinion.
I tend to be more right wing than left, but I consider myself to be an independent in political terms. I do not support abortion or gay marraige but I do think gays should have rights except for adopting children. Gay marriage and gay rights are two different things, but I won't go into any of that in this thread.
Most politicians (at least in the US) seem to be money-hungry, power-hungry thieves who only want your money. Most of the time, that is correct. I tend not to watch the news because there's always something stupid happening because of a politician, such as the Dept. of Education paying a political commentator to support Bush's NCLB act on taxpayer money. Ridiculous.
Like I said, I'm an independent.

extreme right

i am extreme right - even more so than Bush who is becoming a liberal more and more all the time.

in American terms anyway. In Europe and Canada the debate is between liberals and socialists, but in America it's between conservatives and liberals.

I think the Great Worldwide Debate is really between Relativists and Absolutists like me.

hmm...I joined the SPD (Social-Democrats) in February. It's traditionally a left party but it has a huge conservative wing by now. And I think I rather call myself conservative.

I'm now assistant chairman of "Jusos" (the young organisation of the Social Democrats) in my district.

Wait just a few years, and I'll become chancellor of this country :D

Left and Proud. Extremes will never accomplish anything good, just incite more hate.