*spoiler* - about the notorious phone call

From a lot of spoilers and screener reports, the phone booth scene from m1 is no where to be found in m3, however, I'd like to say that while it may not be included in revolutions, I believe it is entirely possible that the phone call actually takes place after revolutions anyhow.

Instead of letting us in on the answers, it seems that we are going to have to figure out most of this movie ourselves, and I would like to take the first step in doing so by saying that the 'phone call' is an event which, while appearing in m1, happens on the timeline after the events in m3. The neo at the end of m1 is not the same as the neo at the beginning of m2. It's just not him. It can't happen before m2, and obviously not between m2 and m3.

Earlier today i did some math... the first phone call we see at the beginning of m1 is about 1 year 5 months before the phonecall at the end of m1. Considering that there is a 6 month peroid between m1 and m2, and m2 is basicly the same time as m3, the phone call at the end of m1 is about 10 months too late to be at the end of m3 unless of course it jumps forward in time. I was reading some gaming magizine and it said that they were making a matrix game that took place in the matrix, after revolutions. Which definatley implys that the matrix is not destroyed.

oh yeah and hi im new here...

yes, according 2 your math, orryk, it would be 10 months too late, but i think that it took about 10 months of training for Neo inbetween the time he 'woke up' and when morpheus first took him to the oracle

Just to clarify the dates...

Beginning of The Matrix:
Call trans opt: received 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:log>
End of The Matrix:
Call trans opt: received 9-18-99 14:32:21 REC:log>

That is one year and 7 months if I'm not mistaken.

ok first of all all phone calls are in order. about 5 or 6 days after neo is freed and he as is training and sees the oracle. he becomes the 1 then 1 year and 7 months later after he makes the call explaining to the machines he is going to free more people then he as done in the past 1 yr 7 mnts. then 6 months later is reloaded.
u see there is no loop in time. what happened happened in order. the is only 1 neo trough out the whole of the films.

i dont get this bit of the film
trinity: were going to kill him.
voice (maybe cypher): i know. do u belive morpeheurs.
trinty: i dont know

or it goes somehting like that anyway. why would they want to kill him when really they are trying to find the 1. plz explain

This is just my take on that phonecall: Cypher says, "We're going to kill him you know". I wondered why he would say that. I know that we never actualy see Trinity talk to the Oracle, but she says at the phone booth in the subway, "Everything has come true, everything but this..." and she never says what it is. Then when he dies, she says, "The Oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one, so you see, you can't be dead, because I love you". I think maybe the Oracle told Trinity that he would die and that her love would ressurect him. Or maybe she just figured it out, but that wouldn't explain why Cypher said they were going to kill him, because it seemed to me like Trinity's lips were sealed in regards to what the Oracle told her.

The only other possibility is that Cypher said "We're going to kill him" because he thought that their intervention was going to get Neo killed by agents.

Originally posted by Valasher
This is just my take on that phonecall: Cypher says, "We're going to kill him you know". I wondered why he would say that. I know that we never actualy see Trinity talk to the Oracle, but she says at the phone booth in the subway, "Everything has come true, everything but this..." and she never says what it is. Then when he dies, she says, "The Oracle said I would fall in love with a man, and that man would be the one, so you see, you can't be dead, because I love you". I think maybe the Oracle told Trinity that he would die and that her love would ressurect him. Or maybe she just figured it out, but that wouldn't explain why Cypher said they were going to kill him, because it seemed to me like Trinity's lips were sealed in regards to what the Oracle told her.

The only other possibility is that Cypher said "We're going to kill him" because he thought that their intervention was going to get Neo killed by agents.

Morpheus said they usually don't unplug some one after a certain age. It's unlikely, but Cypher could have been talking about that. Maybe the risk is higher when the person is older.

about 5 or 6 days after neo is freed and he as is training and sees the oracle. he becomes the 1 then 1 year and 7 months later after he makes the call explaining to the machines he is going to free more people then he as done in the past 1 yr 7 mnts. then 6 months later is reloaded.

Uhh no, don't think so. Reloaded happens 6 months after the scene with neo jumping into smith, not 6 months after a year and a half. don't think so. Just look at neo at the end of m1, and then look at him in the beginning of m2. TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

Terikan, maybe the reason he is so doubtful is because he thinks there's something more important to do than just freeing people one at a time. I mean, Morpheus has been freeing people and the role of the One should be to do more than that.

However, I'm having a hard time following the timeline of events. Did they deliver the package to the leaders of Zion with the footage of sentinels drilling into Zion before Neo says "I wish I knew what I was supposed to do..." Because if those machines drilling are making him wonder what he can do right now that would help his fellow men, then wouldn't that make more sense?

I'm fairly certain zion is being informed by at least one of the ships of the drilling sentinels a few days/weeks before the meeting where morpheus and the rest discover it. remember niobe says 'a plan is still under development' or something along those lines, so they must have known. but not for that long since it doesn't take the sentinels long to drill.

and how is neo going to stop the drilling sentinels? so no, he didn't know what he was supposed to do, but here are some things you need to consider about that last phone call in m1.

1. the outfit he wears is the same one he wears in m3, he wears this outfit at no other points in the trilogy.

2. neo does not say he's going to free a bunch of minds, he basically says that he is going to change the matrix in some way, show them a world 'without you, without controls, limitations, etc'. this is obviously a new tactic, one he has not thought of in m2.

3. The dates. The dates on those trace calls don't lie. And a ship like the neb doesn't stay away for 2 years. Six months is believable, since the neb visits zion a lot less often due to how dedicated to the cause morpheus is. You can tell it's the first time neo's been there. So no, there's nothing left to interpretation about the dates, it's a full year after the conclusion of revolutions that the phone call takes place.

Listen guys, I'm 99.99999% certain about this. Neo comes back to the matrix to change it once and for all. Some people may walk out of revolutions feeling like everything was for nothing, but not if you realize the truth that I'm trying to expose you all to now.

Watch the end of m1 a few times, just the scene with him making the call. If you don't own m1, well shame on you anyways. After reading up on revolutions, the reviews, the spoilers, the way neo acts and the way the scene at the end of m1 is staged just makes so much more sense now.

Originally posted by Terikan
1. the outfit he wears is the same one he wears in m3, he wears this outfit at no other points in the trilogy.

Do you have a picture of this? I haven't really paid attention as to what he wears in the trailers.

Oh, and Morpheus says that they have freed more minds in the last 6 months than the last 6 years. Does that really mean it was only 6 months later where we pick up?

I'm not arguing. I actually hope you're right. I just have those Q's.

Well Terikan, I believe you. About the only way your theory can be disproven is if Neo were to die at the end of Revolutions.

I didn't pay attention to such detail. It's not like the same clues were given in the Reload. However, is it not suspicious that the main goal of the agents in the Reload was to erase the Keymaker while the sentinels drilled to Zion? So why all of the sudden are they tracing a call made by Neo at the end of Revolutions? The battle is to be won at Zion/the real world not in an illusion. There is no way to know how long it has been. Also, that wasn't the first time Neo was in Zion so it's not like the Neb never got recharged. If you look at the ship, you will notice alot of changes including how the ship was piloted (by two) and the main guns located at the rear of the ship.

I don't understand why so many people put so much stock in the
ending phone call in M1. More than likely the ending scene was
left in without a strong expectation of (a NOD from WB) making
the sequels. If you look at the original M1 script on the DVD, you'll
notice a lot was removed in the hope of making the sequels.

Besides, Neo's first jack into the Matrix in M2 has him in the same
gear as at the end of M1, and for 6 months he did as he promised
in the phone call. I think it was a fitting ending to M1.

We won't see this scene again in M3.

Neo's first jack into the Matrix in M2 has him in the same
gear as at the end of M1, and for 6 months he did as he promised
in the phone call.

bzzzt!!! wrong. the only thing they've been doing is freeing minds, not changing the matrix, showing the people INSIDE the matrix a world 'without you, without controls'. Also wrong in gear, the gear at the end of m1 is NOT the same as in m2 at the beginning. althroughout m2 neo wears that exact same outfit.

No, the scene is not at the end of m3. You know why? because the wb's aren't giving us all the answers on a silver platter. we have to put this together ourselves, as I FOOKING said on the first post.

Originally posted by Terikan
bzzzt!!! wrong. the only thing they've been doing is freeing minds, not changing the matrix, showing the people INSIDE the matrix a world 'without you, without controls'. Also wrong in gear, the gear at the end of m1 is NOT the same as in m2 at the beginning. althroughout m2 neo wears that exact same outfit.

No, the scene is not at the end of m3. You know why? because the wb's aren't giving us all the answers on a silver platter. we have to put this together ourselves, as I FOOKING said on the first post.
Whatever Teri, you can live that trip as long as you want. The fact
is, Neo's representation at the end of M1 is not inconsistent with
the happenings of M2, therefore, not 'special' at the end of M1 :)

Terikan, I've been doing some thinking. The Wachowskis originally meant for the Matrix to be a Trilogy, but weren't sure if they would ever make more movies after the first one. So perhaps they put this ending which ties the first movie up quite nicely, but also fits in after Revolutions, just in case. However, what you said about them wanting us to figure that out ourselves is also the truth. What do you think?

neo at end of m1: I know what to do now.

neo at end of m2: I just wish I knew what to do....

makes it fairly obvious to me, but hey, there are actually some people who thought one of mero's goons was a chick, so go figure.

I think you are dead on valasher, I think they put the true ending as the last scene to m1, just 'in case' something happened and m2 and 3 didn't materialize. It's the final closure to the trilogy, and I think when people see how revolutions plays out, they will have to admit that it's the ONLY way the trilogy has closure.

WHAT?! The Mero's goon wasn't female?

awww. man!!

Originally posted by Terikan
I think you are dead on valasher, I think they put the true ending as the last scene to m1, just 'in case' something happened and m2 and 3 didn't materialize.
No sh* Sherlock! That's more or less what I said but in response
to your thread title. There is no spoiler, the scene won't appear in M3.

Originally posted by Terikan
It's the final closure to the trilogy, and I think when people see how revolutions plays out, they will have to admit that it's the ONLY way the trilogy has closure.
It may have been at one time but not anymore. They used the
scene already and won't pull a cheesy replay in M3.

I really wouldn't mind seeing a "cheesy replay" of the phone booth scene at some point in Revolutions© I think it would be awesome to see that scene again and hear that speech just as everything starts hitting the fan©

It may have been at one time but not anymore. They used the
scene already and won't pull a cheesy replay in M3.

This ENTIRE thread has been about how the phone call is NOT in revolutions, but that it doesn't have to be. It's the final scene in the matrix trilogy, but it's ONLY SHOWN in m1. But that is HOW IT ENDS. IT, being the trilogy itself.

Bumping because I believe people need to see this, especially people who weren't satisfied with the 'open' ending of m3.

Valasher, at the end of M! when trinity says "Everything has come true...everything but this" she means that Neo was going to die, just as you said. The oracle told her he was going to die, and she thought he was going to get out of the matrix after saving morphous, because he was right next to the phone booth and she was nervous because she knew they werent home free. Thats when you cue in smith, who Neo decides to fight.

Originally posted by Terikan
This ENTIRE thread has been about how the phone call is NOT in revolutions, but that it doesn't have to be. It's the final scene in the matrix trilogy, but it's ONLY SHOWN in m1. But that is HOW IT ENDS. IT, being the trilogy itself.


I still believe...

The uniform argument is the strongest one to support this... IM not sure about the rest tho... Im buying the comics tonight I was wondering if there was other good books on the matrix that seek answers (tho im pretty sure no authorized book exists Id check out some unauthorized stuff...)

Ok, I just want to clear something up. Somebody asked why Cypher said they were going to kill Neo in the beggining of M1. This is because alot of times when runners are freeing people they have to kill them because of agents. If an agent finds out the person is with the runners, obviously the agent is going to take over that person's body (because they're still connected to the Matrix).

Why do you think when Neo met them at the bridge and got in the car that Switch pointed a gun at his head. Isn't that very illogical? Well, yes it is... unless you consider she had to. If you notice, they said "It's for our own protection". Because at that point Neo could have become an Agent at any second.

This also happens in the Animatrix. When Trinity is about to help the detective, she has to kill him in the end, because an Agent was taking over his body.

Anyway, just to let you guys know. They weren't like plotting Neo's death or anything, Cypher was just being negative like he is and saying they were probably going to end up having to kill Neo anyway. (plus he was jealous because he was in love with Trinity).

Ok, Laurence Fishburne (sp?) said in an interview that Reloaded takes place 6 months from the ending of the first movie, so kill these theories cause they are getting annoying, neo is dead, trinity is dead, smith is dead, and there is peace between zion and the machines. Trilogy is over now leave it that way.

kthxbye.

-Redman

Originally posted by Braska
Ok, I just want to clear something up. Somebody asked why Cypher said they were going to kill Neo in the beggining of M1. This is because alot of times when runners are freeing people they have to kill them because of agents. If an agent finds out the person is with the runners, obviously the agent is going to take over that person's body (because they're still connected to the Matrix).

Why do you think when Neo met them at the bridge and got in the car that Switch pointed a gun at his head. Isn't that very illogical? Well, yes it is... unless you consider she had to. If you notice, they said "It's for our own protection". Because at that point Neo could have become an Agent at any second.

This also happens in the Animatrix. When Trinity is about to help the detective, she has to kill him in the end, because an Agent was taking over his body.

Anyway, just to let you guys know. They weren't like plotting Neo's death or anything, Cypher was just being negative like he is and saying they were probably going to end up having to kill Neo anyway. (plus he was jealous because he was in love with Trinity).


I've been around for a long time and it never occurred to me. That's the best 1st post by anyone yet. Welcome to MatrixMania! :)

uhm, i think that what had been said before is true, maybe the scene of the phone at the end of matrix 1 was meant to be the end, maybe they didn't had hope for a sequel, and so they ended it that way, as i recall, before the news about a sequel nobody (here in my city) complained about the end, it just seemed logical at the time.