good talk.

I believe wat jimmerb83 said cos its was a mistake for humanbeings to create machines.But wat could we do without them?They r ur source of power and without them we cant live.But over mistake one makes there tends to be a solution.we shouldnt be blaming urselfs but look for a solution.

Making machines might not be a mistake. But making Artificial intelligence... That is different.

For example, if you make a coffee blender, there's nothing wrong with that. But making an Intelligent blender, if might decide not to work on some days or demand you use better coffee or something like that....

In short, its messy business...

I think that man can make AI, but its his problem with abusing the power of it. For instance, if you watched the Animatrix episode The Rennisance Pt.1&2, you see that the humans don't do strenuous work like construction work and stuff like that they make robots do that kind of work, they make robots waiters, they make them live in the lower city, and they mess with the robots.......until one couldn't take it any more and started killing humans which led to a war. We always abuse our power and we pay for it in the end. But then again we need to be a liitle bit of slave drivers because robots would mistake our kindness for a weakness. Forget I even said AI is good cause it ain't.

A.I. is good in and of itself. It is the possible applications that we may find for it that could be the problem. As long as we set clear parameters, there should be no problem. But, who knows? I want to see that advent of A.I.

There are so many possibilities. Some weird **** just happened. I'm listening to a sampler CD and there's a song called "It's Okay" by Postaboy and a lyric goes "...I'm gonna show how to make, to live like The Matrix..." just thought I'd put that out there. Whatever.

i think its more of a matter or setting fool proof parameters that are impossible to hack, i kno this can't happen because there is always another way round, and if AI decides its going to hack the parameters/barriers, and it can find a way inside its own system then i believe thats where the problem will lie
!!

Like other people were saying earlier A.I. in and of itself isn't bad it's that over time we have become too dependent on computers. Once A.I. is perfected it might realize that and see it as a weakness because it doesn't need us, but we completely rely on it. And if it thinks like we do at all it will get rid of what it doesn't need. I'm not saying it will go rambo on us, but it might just choose to disobey.

What some scientists are working on now is a way to make us indispensable to the computers so that there is a mutual sense of importance between man and machine.

once ai is perfected... once ai is perfected.

hmmm, for some reason that sounds like utter bull****. perfection, you see, is impossible. Unless an ai is told to kill, and how to kill it shall never kill. Unless it knows how to rebel it will never rebel.

AI is just as experimental as we are, and one of those experiments could be to see at what points our brain splash out to form a smiley on a screen 2 meters away.

However, we, the creators determine the boundaries of the AI, we determine, like we do with our children, what is right and what is wrong. If they do not know the difference between right and wrong they are unpredictable and insane.

No....
If it is truly A.I. it would have a developed vocabulary, meaning it would know what murder and rebelion are and therefore be able to participate in these actions. I know what you're going to say "Just because it knows the definition doesn't mean it knows how to kill or rebel..." Once again if it is truly A.I. it will be able to learn about these things and have the free will to chose whether it wants to participate in these actions or not.

As for perfection you kinda got me there. Perfection is kind of a bull**** idea, but what I meant by "perfected" was that we make it so that it is what it was meant to be. No limitations other than moral ones that MOST of us follow.

Originally posted by flare_star
Making machines might not be a mistake. But making Artificial intelligence... That is different.

i understand where your coming from with that, but i dont think its the matter of people creating AI or machines, but the fact that AI can control these machines maybe the problem that we could be faced with in the future...

Originally posted by HomoUniversalis
once ai is perfected... once ai is perfected.

hmmm, for some reason that sounds like utter bull****. perfection, you see, is impossible. Unless an ai is told to kill, and how to kill it shall never kill. Unless it knows how to rebel it will never rebel.

AI is just as experimental as we are, and one of those experiments could be to see at what points our brain splash out to form a smiley on a screen 2 meters away.

However, we, the creators determine the boundaries of the AI, we determine, like we do with our children, what is right and what is wrong. If they do not know the difference between right and wrong they are unpredictable and insane.

good point, and i thoroughly understand what your saying but, AI is taught to kill by world leaders when they bomb other countries with nuke's etc...

its all computer done, all through a program.. and therefore controlled by AI, in turn, controlled by us.. thus if it is programmed to kill it will, and if AI learns this for itself, then we could be in trouble, or do i stand at a loss with my point?

Also true about the rebellion factor, but it only takes one person, to hack and control these cruise missile weilding computers, and if someone is clever enough to control robotic track arms such as that in car building plants.. they are actually used to create car parts, but these track arms can be used to peice things together..(i know this because my dad used to be part of a team that manned such an arm in the Rover car plant)

so if we get 1 person able to control these robotic arms and nuke stations through the use of trojans (it can easily be done i have been informed, but not through personal use), i understand that such computers would be extremely highly protected, but for every block that stands in the way, there is a clever enough person to tackle it...

Originally posted by Furious B
No....
If it is truly A.I. it would have a developed vocabulary, meaning it would know what murder and rebelion are and therefore be able to participate in these actions. I know what you're going to say "Just because it knows the definition doesn't mean it knows how to kill or rebel..." Once again if it is truly A.I. it will be able to learn about these things and have the free will to chose whether it wants to participate in these actions or not.

As for perfection you kinda got me there. Perfection is kind of a bull**** idea, but what I meant by "perfected" was that we make it so that it is what it was meant to be. No limitations other than moral ones that MOST of us follow.

This is the kind of stuff that people need to be thinking about! Yes, perfection in and of itself is a self-refuting term, but it is the looser meaning that we are using here. It is creating A.I. so that it can learn on its own without human intervention. It is being able to take a machine and give it life and have that life have meaning and be practical.

It is about being able to play God and enjoy the intelligence and challenge. I know that there comes a point when enough is enough, but if we can do it, why not try it at least once? Who knows what applications there can really be for A.I.

Think of the learning potential that A.I. will exhibit. Can you imagine a world where machines are not really subordinate, but actually equal to us? I don't know that they can ever be truly superior because, we after all created them. But there is the opportunity for A.I. to become just as integral part of human existence as we are.

Already machines are a priority and a key factor in daily human lives, why not A.I.? Why stop where we are now? We don't have new frontiers to explore on land (yes, I know about the oceans being the last frontier/space), so why not create an artificial frontier? Science is rapidly expanding. At times it grows beyond our capacity and knowlegde, but change and progress are good.

The future holds many riddles and areas of intrigue. I can't wait to see what is in store for us. I might be sadly disappointed because nothing happens, I might become agitated and upset because A.I. becomes superior to us, or I might be pleasantly pleased with what happens. I'm not willing to say stop development because of the possibility for failure or the possibility of making mistakes. That's not how things are done. The risk is half the rush, half the fun....

Mork, u really sum this stuff up deep here man!

but i understand what you mean, but with everyone who has tried to play God, they have had to pay a price, i believe that if humans don't know whwere to stop with AI it will become our downfall, we will become too greedy with it and keep pushing it to be cleverer and stronger etc and we could have a real situation!!

does anyone follow with my point? it is a bit confusing, but it kinda makes sense to me...

Mork keep it coming man, you give me something new to think about everyday

It is my intense intrigue in the matter that enables me to think about A.I. so intensely and deeply. I find that there are a number of things that can stimulate the human mind, but none is a great as challenge.

Humans need to feel challenged; that is what drives us. For example, taking a test (yes, I know not exactly an enjoyable task). Our minds are stimulated because of the task before us because of the challenge that the test represents. I do not advocate science for science's sake, but advancement is necessary.

The concept and possibilities of A.I. need to be fully explored. All of the people that preach against the advancement are either ill-informed or have some strong moral argument against A.I. I don't see how one can hold such opinions, although I do respect them.

I believe that there is enormous potential for A.I. A lot of this is repition of either me or others. But that is all I really have to say.

fair comment there...

it is true about mental stimulation, if you have nothing to drive you then you become lazy, if you always try to present yourself with a challenge of some form i believe it keeps you and yourmind active...

thus enabling you to learn more...

with regards to AI i believe (as with everything) it has a good side and a bad, this is just the way of things, i believe people have become to dependant on AI (which i see as a draw back) but the for the good side it is much much more efficient for hospital wards (e-mail), factory (e-mail)...

i believe such things as music, media, video etc also stimulate the mind in other ways. critical situations also stimulate the mind, and your adrenaline...

there are millions of ways to stimulate the mind some giving harm, some saving it...

well throughout this post i think i have moanaged to cover nothing of relevance or use to anyone...

I don't know if I've already said this, but there is no harm in repeating myself.

Somebody said that nothing bad can come of A.I. and that the only people who oppose it are either ill-informed or have a moral agenda with it. This is primarily true, but I think that where the problems lies is in the fact that we are too dependent on A.I. I think it is interesting that in the Matrix it is just the opposite and that A.I. depends on us for energy. Anyways to put it in simple words if your dog told you to go get his food and you had no emotional attachment to it would you do it? I mean if A.I. doesn't value us than how can we be sure that it will obey us.

Everybody is going to say that we can control it so it will, but (I must've said this a thousand times) if it is truly what it was meant to be than it wouldn't have any limitations or control over it other than moral ones, which it can still choose to disobey because it would think for itself.

I just realized something. If any of you have ever read the book 1984 than you've come to realize that all of us have been brainwashed in some way or another. For example: if you live in America you probably never thought that saying the National Anthem every morning in kindergarten was wierd, but it was kind of brainwashing us it to patriotism and loyalty. I think that some brainwashing like this is somewhat necessary to help hold things together. Anyways my point was that maybe if we kind of brainwashed A.I. into likeing us than it wouldn't necessarily be putting limitations upon it it would just be reinforcing our moral beliefs into it.

I'm having trouble thinking clearly for some reason so there is probably some big flaw in this (I don't even remember how I started this post) so please don't rag on me to bad.