Revolutions (no spoilers, just some ideas)

Thanks to mercilesstruth, I have just watched the Revolutions trailer. There are, I think, a few things worthy of note.

Some things that I will not dare hypothesize about:
There is, finally, the guy from the "Truth" restaurant along with what seems to be the long-awaited child the Oracle prophesized about.
Also, if you pause the trailer on 44th second, you will see the "72-hour-guy" guy fighting Neo in the subway.

Other things I noticed:

1. The very first word in the trailer is "apoc". As much as Apoc's name, I think, this is a reference to the coming apocalypse. However, while previously we might have thought that "apocalypse" would refer solely to the matrix, it is clear now that apocalypse concerns the world at large.

2. Neo: "The program Smith has grown beyond your control."
First, note the image that we are presented with while these words are spoken. The dark face surrounded by spikes looks very much like the pagan images of sun-gods (usually a face (of the god proper) surrounded by sun's rays).
But, more importantly, Neo's words seem to confirm my idea that the Architect (I have concluded that it was the architect that was speaking to Neo) has no clue about what's going on in the matrix while presenting Neo with his "choice" of the doors, and is, therefore, in no position to construct algorithms (present Neo with a choice of 2 doors). Everything that the Architect has told Neo about what WOULD happen in the matrix is obsolete because of Smith. The Architect is no longer in control, the matrix itself is no longer what he thinks it is - at this point the Oracle is the only one who has a faintest clue about what's coming.

3. Merovingian: "Bring me the eyes of the Oracle, and I would give you back your savior."
Apparently, the Merovingian is referring to Neo. I find it strange that while the Oracle herself insists that the future is in Neo's hands, the Merovingian is willing to trade this "savior" for the Oracle. He must think that the future is dependant on the Oracle much more than it is so on Neo.

4. The Oracle: "Tonight, the future of both worlds will be in your hands... or in his"
The W bros are very careful with words. I don't think this simply means "you have to win the battle" or "it's up to you how this ends". If the future of both worlds was in Smith's hands, Smith would be (it seems) the ultimate ruler of all. So if the future ended up in Neo's hands, Neo would be... the superior god, the peak of the hierarchy?

I wish I could conclude this with something along the lines of "in less than 2 months all questions will be answered", but I have a strong feeling that Revolutions will leave us with more questions than Reloaded.

1. apoc is not a word. Uncapitalized it's not a name. Are you sure you are quoting it right? I haven't watched this trailer apparently.

2. When the hero in a movie says something like this, what he is doing is negotiating. He is presenting the facts in a persuasive way. I believe that the architect does know to some extent, what is going on. If he didn't, then he would just tell neo to go to hell because he wouldn't know it was true. Also, why would the oracle know what's going on?

3. Why? Mero may just be pissed at the oracle. Not every villain has the same goals in mind.

4. Umm, seems like 'you better win the fight' to me.

I dunno... I might have heard it wrong, but it sounds like "apoc".

Let's forget about the trailer for a second. When Neo met with the Architect, the Architect basically told him "this is how the matrix works; this is what has been done the last 5 times; here are your options." The Architect assumes that the matrix is the same as it was through the 5 previous iterations, and is offering Neo a choice based on that INCOMPLETE information. He has no idea that there is this rogue virus running around in his "world", affecting everything, including his agents! Neo knows about Smith, but he is too slow to put the two and two together.

The only entity that seems to be fully aware of Smith at this point is the Oracle. Why? Because she's the Oracle... lol. She knows that Smith is dropping in, that's why she wraps up the conversation on the bench with Neo. Even now she already knows what the Architect doesn't much later on - the matrix is different from before. And then, of course, she tells Neo that he must stop "him."

As far as Neo making a deal with the Architect - I am not sure. The most apparent deal to me is: Neo rids the matrix of Smith/The Architect calls the sentinels off. But the trailer shows the sentinels invading Zion. So maybe the deal is made later. But then what is the Architect offering Neo? And what would be acceptable terms to Neo?

The Merovingian says "Bring me the EYES of the Oracle." He wants to SEE what the Oracle sees. AND, apparently he thinks that this ability to SEE is more important than Neo himself.

That last one, about Neo and Smith, I am not so sure about myself. I still find it strange, though, that they would choose the wording that they did.

Originally posted by yanka

1. The very first word in the trailer is "apoc". As much as Apoc's name, I think, this is a reference to the coming apocalypse. However, while previously we might have thought that "apocalypse" would refer solely to the matrix, it is clear now that apocalypse concerns the world at large.


If you're refering to the theatrical trailer, the first word is

Machines mainframe: "SPEAK"
Neo: The program smith has grown beyond your control...

Originally posted by m0r0n3s
If you're refering to the theatrical trailer, the first word is

Machines mainframe: "SPEAK"
Neo: The program smith has grown beyond your control...

I think you're right. It makes more sense, too.

yeah this is could be it ... but i think the mero has a big role in this movie .. and persiphone too .. i read in another thread that she is the mother of the matrix ?!! what do u think ? and what did she gave neo by the kiss ?

As far as Persephone - I am certain she is not the "mother". I have no clue as to who this mother may be, but (like I said before) I do wonder who that golden-haired girl in The Second Renaissance is.
And why would she GIVE something to Neo through the kiss? She explicitly stated she wants to GET something; she said the same thing to Ghost and Niobe. In each of the 3 cases of her kissing someone, she told them who they love. Maybe it has something to do with the "master plan", or maybe she knows something nobody else does.
It cracks me up, too, that they all act like it's such an arduous task - to kiss Persephone; omg, I would think people would be lining up for that, kinda like with Cleopatra.

Undoubtedly, Merovingian has a big role. I see him as the Architect's arch nemesis - he who rose against the Creator, the ruler of the 'under'world. The main obstacle on his course is lack of information.

Like I said before, the only entity that has sufficient information (besides, perhaps, Smith himself) is the Oracle. She knows that Neo is different from the previous Ones (Merovingian didn't), and she knows about Smith. That is why the Merovingian wants her "eyes" - he thinks that will enable him to not only see what's happening, but also what MIGHT happen.

I don't think I am really in the position to be guessing about what might happen in Revolutions, because I don't fully understand what happened in Reloaded. There are too many questions left: Why did Persephone want Neo to get caught while he was getting the Keymaker? How did the previous Ones get past the Merovingian? Why didn't he know that Neo was unlike those previous Ones? Why doesn't the Architect know about Smith? What does Smith mean when he says to Neo "Still using all the muscles except the one that matters?" What is Seraph protecting? Why does the Architect let Neo have a choice? What is Hamann's role? Why is Ghost named 'Ghost'? Who is the Oracle? Most importantly, the Architect's explanations about how the matrix works just don't make sense.

What about what the architect says doesn't make sense? Made perfect sense to me after watching it about 4 times lol.

Why did Persephone want Neo to get caught while he was getting the Keymaker? How did the previous Ones get past the Merovingian? Why didn't he know that Neo was unlike those previous Ones? Why doesn't the Architect know about Smith? What does Smith mean when he says to Neo "Still using all the muscles except the one that matters?" What is Seraph protecting? Why does the Architect let Neo have a choice? What is Hamann's role? Why is Ghost named 'Ghost'? Who is the Oracle?

1. Because she wanted mero to know her betrayal because she was pissed off that he was getting a hummer.

2. Doesn't matter really. Each one probably got to the source a different way.

3. Why would he? No reason that I can discern.

4. Because when neo destroyed smith, it was neo's ability to defy fate that copied over to smith, and that's why he was able to come back, and that has thrown a monkey wrench into the usual cycle. Remember at the beginning, when smith says 'it is all happening exactly as before' and then the other smith says 'not exactly'. He's referring to himself coming back.

5. Smith is either just trying to insult neo by saying he's not using his brain (even though the brain isn't a muscle). Or, and more likely, smith is implying to neo that he isn't following his heart. Heart is a symbol for 'gut feelings'. Maybe smith knows what neo is feeling. Maybe neo feels that he really shouldn't go to the source at all. Or that he's doing something, anything, wrong.

6. "What matters most" of course hehe. I don't really know what that is, but the obvious answer is the oracle. I really don't know what else. Maybe he's the real father of the matrix *snicker*.

7. Well, the architect said that the subjects will accept the programming if givin a choice. Maybe neo is nothing more than a subject being given a choice. As I theorized many moons ago at this very board, I believe that he must give neo a choice. If his only choice was to go to the source, but he only went there grudgingly, then it may pose a risk to the entire system. But instead, the architect explains to him what will happen when he goes to the source. For neo to make a choice to go to the door, is to accept this fate and the matrix is safe.

This is really a question that has been pondered a lot, and hopefully the last movie will answer it.

8. To tell neo that we can't just destroy the machines.

9. Because ghost is one of many hacker terms givin to the hackers as names. I don't see any significance in it.

10. She is the one, the only, mother of the matrix. A program brought in to solve the problems the matrix was having. After she was done, they gave her the boot and she started the resistance with the humans, hoping that someday man and machine could co-exist peacefully.

Besides, 5, 6, 7, and 9, I'm fairly certain of my answers.

Originally posted by Terikan
1. Because she wanted mero to know her betrayal because she was pissed off that he was getting a hummer.
Well, if that was her only goal, she could have just killed both Cain and Abel, given the Keymaker to Neo, and then later that night, as her and the Merovingian were getting ready to go to bed, said "By the way, mon cher, I gave the Keymaker to Neo."
Instead, for some reason, Neo had to fight for the Keymaker - and she ensured it.

2,3. It does kinda matter a lot. Merovingian: "You'll handle us? You know, your predecessors had much more respect..." These words are actually very significant - aside from this being the first time that WE are informed that Neo had predecessors, they mean that the previous Ones had some sort of similar encounters with the Merovingian. Did the Merovingian release the Keymaker(s) to them because "they had more respect"?
Merovingian: "Okay, you have some skill... I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you." It's at least strange that while the Merovingian recognizes that Neo is different from his predecessors, he is certain that he will "survive" Neo. Why is that? Just an act of arrogance typical of a man "with power"? I mean, I'd be alarmed at this point, but he is not (much like the Architect).

4. Yeah, so why doesn't the Architect know about Smith? At the end of M1, when Neo "destroyed" Smith, didn't the other agents report to the Architect that something VERY unusual happened? One of his agents is missing (Smith himself), the other one is out of his control (the one that Smith copied over), there are all of those infected people in the matrix, and he is just oblivious to that?

5. That's what I was driving at. But it still doesn't jive. I keep thinking of the scene in the beginning of M2, when Neo is complaining "oh, poor me, I just don't know what I'm supposed to do, I wish somebody would tell me..." I'd say if there is anything Neo isn't using enough of, it's definitely his brain. But Smith suggests he should use a muscle... dunno... Lol, maybe he means the muscle that controls the sentinels.
6. "What matters most" of course hehe. I don't really know what that is, but the obvious answer is the oracle.From what I remember, Seraphims protect the Truth - God's word. Quite literally, that would mean that the Oracle is The Truth (or at least she speaks it). That, in turn, means that the Oracle has to exist - so that the truth could be known. Whether she is "destroyable" or not (by Merovingian, mainly) is the question.

7. Lol, I'm glad you can make sense out of what the Architect said. Neither his speech, nor what you say is logical (imo). Neo ends up at the source, so we can just pretty much cross out how he gets there. Now, there is this Architect, and the only thing he wants out of Neo is "code" (lol, what code? genetic code?), and pretty much the Architect's survival depends on whether he obtains this code, and he tells Neo "listen, either you give me this code, or you can just walk out of here." Lol. It'd be like if some robber came up to me on the street and told me "either you let me rob you, or you can just run away. The only thing that matters to me is that you give up your wallet willingly. Remember, my survival depends on your decision, but I have to leave it up to you." Lol.
Almost everything the Architect says about choice is nonsense - to me, and so far. It would really take too long to explain why; maybe after I gather my thoughts, I'll start a new thread.

8. Ok, I find it curious that the official leader of the people whose existence amounts to "fighting the machines" is pushing THAT hard for co-existence, without bothering to explain to his people WHY or THAT it might be necessary. I think he knows something, and he can't disclose it.9. Because ghost is one of many hacker terms givin to the hackers as names. I don't see any significance in it.significance: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

10.She is the one, the only, mother of the matrix.Lol, she is as likely to be the mother of matrix as I am. I can't believe I have to spell it out again, but here we go:
The Oracle's prototypes are obviously the Greek Oracles. The Greeks believed that the threads of destiny are weaved by these three divinities, called moirae, and nobody - no humans, no gods, not even Zeus - could change the fate they "planned". The Oracle could read the "thread of destiny", but never write it, or change it. The Oracles do not write that which will be; they do not create anything; they are not even divine.
To say that the Oracle is the mother of the matrix is to obliterate entirely whatever Greek reference the W bros might have intended for the Ms, and to distort the Hellenik concept of destiny altogether.

I'm sorry that you were unable to comprehend my answers...

Originally posted by Terikan
I'm sorry that you were unable to comprehend my answers...
Yeah, me too... Unfortunately, given the unattainable heights your mind resides at, my full comprehension of this^^ one-liner response is also unlikely.

good ideas but i think that terikan has hit the nail on the head with most of his answer\s