The Machines Are The Slaves 2

I have read in other posts that some people think that the machines are the slaves. this could be true. bear with me, cause this is just an opinion and nothing else, it's up to you to tell me what's wrong with it, etc. Ok, here we go: You see, the real world (zion, etc) is just another matrix created not by the machines this time but by humans. neo, trinity, morpheus and all the other citizens from zion are programs in a program, just like the agents are programs in the matrix. and the machines and sentinels and whatever that's hunting them in the "real world", are machines plugged in a program created by humans in a real real world that we have yet to see. a program to make the machines believe they won the war (i won't go into too much detail since much of this is explained in a recent thread posted somewhere else), to make them believe they are in control and neo and the other zion people are just programs created to carry out the illusion. the problem is, us humans made the program too real and even created the matrix for the human/programs there, filled with its own life, its own rules, its own history and people. that's why neo, morpheus and everybody else, who are just programs, but believed so much in the world that was created by us humans that they started looking for their own way out, their own revolution, their own freedom but in the end, they're just programs created by us to keep the machines at bay. that's why there's been other ones before because the real real humans wanted to control the machines forever and created a neverending cycle that would always repeat itself thus, forever keeping the machines under their control. But, the problem is that this time something changed and neo (a program) fell in love with trinity (another program) and thus broke the cycle for the very first time. the end of the matrix revolutions will be, in my opinion, neo finally seeing zion and the supposed "real world" in codes (a dream so real), revealing to us and him the awful truth. he'll choose not to tell the others because he knows that it's all fake, that they will never be free for real, he'll be unable to save them (tank: "he's like a machine", meaning like a program). we'll feel sorry for him and them not because they're programs but because we see ourselves in them and the wachowski brothers will have created an important morality tale and a tragic one at that, filled with surprises and bringing their message to its ultimate definition that reality is just an illusion. a very real and persistent one at that.

When does it end? This MIAM-theory has been showed wrong each time someone came up with an argument to support it and yet you base another theory on this foolish theory? Sorry pall, but I advice finding yourself an other theory...

Cut the guy a little slack, it's his first post. I forgive him for posing the MiM theory again (although i agree that i'm sick to death of it). There are so many posts in all these forums, i haven't even had the energy to go through them all to make sure what i've said hasn't been posed yet.

But, of course, i have to state a glaring reason for Zion being real. Smith copied himself over Bane inside The Matrix, and then managed to jack out via Bane's body. If Zion was also computer generated, then Smith would have carried over the mental image of his digital self. That's glaring proof that Zion is the real world.

Also, while i think the MiM theory would prove interesting, it is way too foreign a concept to put in the main stream. The storyline we're discussing with a MiM theory is an art film at best, and would take a series of books and/or films to do it any justice whatsoever.

While i think it's an intriguing idea, it's just not doable. Thanks for the opinion, though!

omg, ppl get me started when they say that everything that mim believers say has a counter. cause it just doesnt. i have so many unanswered questions that lead me toward mim, and nobody has said anything at all to change my mind. i dont noe what forum you guys are looking at, i agree with the abundance of mim material, but most things i see are pushing even further toward mim than away from it. and all the arguments against mim, like your statements above, your glaring proof, doesnt make sense to me either. the answers are out there. but your arguments arent them. *my opinion*

im just saying, in my opinion, none of my questions have been "proven wrong when i came up with an argument" but i dont wanna get started up again. ive faced the fact that im on my own (practically) on this theory now, and i dont even bother trying to prove it. ill just wait and see now. only what ? 3 months left? m3's just around the corner.

icedrops ya gotta realize that people believe in their theories as much as you do yours. You see no wrong with it but others do and vice versa...I frankly feel we've all raised quite a few good counters. It's like religion...Islam and Christianity aren't that different or wrong individually. Live n let live, me man....

omg. . . i dont beleive you.

ive said that, but ppl ####ing flame you for even mentioning mim anymore. i agree its been overdiscussed, but ppl are regarding the theory as "impossible", stupid, etc etc etc. i cant believe you acussed me of being unaceptting. ppl dont even give mim a chance anymore when i believe its the most backed up theory ive heard. i need to accept others thoeries? i freakin do. its everyone that wont give mim a chance that needs your speech.

i just blow my top when ppl accuse me of stupid things, im sorry.

Er...s' alright....no harm done.
I frankly didn't know there was such a case against MiM. Maybe I should pay more attention to any such comments and i've nothing to say except boo to all of them flamers...yet for now all i see are "frankly I dun think MiM is valid" or "...which is a theory I'm tired of hearing"...its their views. They aren't angry or agitated about it...definitely not confrontational or sniping at you. You took it a tad seriously...also u were pretty aggressive in your views. If ya dun push, u won't get pushed back in defense; that's the rule in things like forums...heck people in general.
People do support MiM out there...either negative support is quashing their views or they are indeed changing them to take on others...must you look things your way? It's like looking thru a tinted mirror at the world. If you insist on looking thru a red mirror sooner or later u'll insist the world out there is red...
I'm not pushing icedrops! I'm not forcing my idea on you! In fact I'm glad you're around to remind us of that particular point of view...jus...be a little nicer? :o

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z
omg, ppl get me started when they say that everything that mim believers say has a counter. cause it just doesnt. i have so many unanswered questions that lead me toward mim, and nobody has said anything at all to change my mind. i dont noe what forum you guys are looking at, i agree with the abundance of mim material, but most things i see are pushing even further toward mim than away from it. and all the arguments against mim, like your statements above, your glaring proof, doesnt make sense to me either. the answers are out there. but your arguments arent them. *my opinion*

im just saying, in my opinion, none of my questions have been "proven wrong when i came up with an argument" but i dont wanna get started up again. ive faced the fact that im on my own (practically) on this theory now, and i dont even bother trying to prove it. ill just wait and see now. only what ? 3 months left? m3's just around the corner.

Ask me some questions.

This MIAM-theory has been showed wrong each time someone came up with an argument to support it and yet you base another theory on this foolish theory? Sorry pall, but I advice finding yourself an other theory...

MiM has never been shown as wrong, people just think it is. You can't prove it wrong unless you hand over the screenplay for m3. Gonna do that? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by JMS
Ask me some questions.

oooooooooooh child, dont get me started. hahaha, for realz now tho. time to break out into mim mode. this is for you jms. and i better get some good answers. dont get lazy. read everything and gimme some answers that will explain everything for me. you asked for it dude:

lets start off with the basics here. whats been discussed over and over. now, many completely disgard these facts now, becuz they have come up with some weird, im my opinion, dumb explainations of how it really happened.

- stopped sentinels?
no emp. flashlights of the other crew members still worked.
no power from the source/smith. he was never actually IN the source. he may have touched the source (i still dont unerstand how tho) but that some how magically gives him a connection to what? the matrix? alright, ill believe it gives him a special connection with the matrix. and the sentinels are somehow always connected to the matrix? impossible. even if the source/smith did give him a special connection with the matrix, it wont have an effect on the sentinels. they couldnt have had a connection with the matrix at that time....unless they've developed infared sensors between them and the matrix...
and if you say that the source/smith gave him a connection directly with the machines, explain to me how. cause i really want to noe....

prove me wrong on that point if you may.

some small details, nevertheless very important:
-a plaque in the neb, during m1, reads as follows:
-------------------------------
NEBECANEZAR

made in the USA
built 2069
-------------------------------

now, there is completely no way that the neb could have been built in 2069. the beginning of the war was well after 2000. take into consideration all the matrix's the year will be as follows:

just taking into consideration the 4 matrix's, that were identical to neo's:
1st matrix: failure
2nd matrix: failure.
3rd: same as neo's, 100 years
4th: 100 years
5th: 100 years
neo's: 100 years.

now, with only those four matrix's that we noe the timeframe to, the year is 2400. thats w/o the time from 2000, after the war and 1st and 2nd matrix's. the neb, first of all, couldnt survive the previous falls of zion. everything in zion is destroyed. all ships, everything. so, the neb some how survived the previous attacks against zion? impossible. the date in the neb is an illusion created by the machines to destroy the evidence of previous zions and previous matrix's. even if you dont agree with my timeline, agree that it is no where near 2069. no debates about that.

that brings me to my next point. after each fall of zion, and the 24 origional zionites are choosen, how is zion rebuilt? becuz the 24 obviously dont have the technology to build the elaborate city that we saw in reloaded. now, the machines would have to build it for the humans. face it, there is absolutely no way that the 24 could create a city like that. 1 million ppl couldnt do that. today, yes. in the destroyed earth in reloadeD? no way in hell. so, why go threw all the trouble of rebuilding a huge city for zion, which the machines need to regulate the matrix (the 1% rejection rate)? zion is necessary to keep the matrix stable. soo, rebuilt that whole city for the humans? reboot the system for the humans? which seems more practical?

next point:
-smith inside zion via bane.

now, acordding to many, zion is real. if it is real, then it is like our world. and in our world, can a program, IN ANY WAY, take over a human body? we lack the program necessary for even the most symplistic programs, let alone a program such as smith- which needs a complicated program such as a matrix to exist. the rules of the matrix are what allow smith to exist. w/o the matrix he is simply code. unless there is another program, ie another matrix, with the adequate programming for smith to run on, he is nothing. bane, although part machine (plugs, ect.) lacks the programming for smith to exist. its like me trying to play counter-strike on a calculator. its impossible.

many say because smith took over bane, there is no MIM. that is one of the silliest things ive ever heard... hehe.

next point:
-quotes:

smith: becuz of you, mr. anderson, im no longer an agent of this system. becuz of you, im a new man. like you, APPARENTLY free.

apparently:
-Readily seen; visible.
-Readily understood; clear or obvious.
-APPEARING AS SUCH BUT NOT NECESSARILY TRUE; seeming: an apparent advantage.

neo believes he is free. apparently free? appears to be free, but not necessary true. smith, in m1, wanted nothing more than to "get free." now, if there was multiple matrix's smith could not truly "get free." maybe neo's attack at the end of m1 made him aware of that, and thats why hes so pissed- he cant get free. he had purpose: to get free. now, his purpose is gone.

"we are here to take away what you took from us- purpose!"

seems like smith noes something neo doesnt...

quote;
hamann: when i see these machines, and think about all the ppl still plugged into the matrix, i cant help but think that, we're somehow plugged into them...

he regarded this thought as "pure nonsense" but maybe its not..... this whole conversation in the engineering room between neo and hamann seems to have really deep meaning. now, the quote above seems to be a step of forshadowing MIM by the W. Brothers. its just a thought.

well, thats it for now. i have 172 more questions if you answer these for me. and plz, b4 you answer, put some thought into it.