Please Help

I was a huge matrix fan, i have my advanced tickets, and come hell or high water im seein it tomorow... but i read a reiview by roger ebert which raised serious questions in my mind. Why cant the machines just make all the people comatose...they would generate just as much energy....and it would illiminate the problem of neo and the rest of the resistance too...in my mind this is a major plothole...i am hoping there is a logical answer to this question and i know matrix fanatics such as yourselves will be able to answer my question.

thanks

(yes i recognize the possibility that this question may have been already asked several times but seeing as my search yielded no results here we are)

I think the answer is: it's just a movie, it's not real.

so thats it? major plothole? that sucks! there must be an answer

-T-I-M-

I'm not here to answer your question, but I am here to tell you that your signature is too big... please make it a standard banner size, no more, no less, if you have any problems on wondering what a standard banner size is please IM me on aim, or pm me on here..

Thank you for your cooperation.

:confused: :confused:

i think its because people are a more "efficient" energy source
the way they are now.

i think i know the answer to your question, but i dont want to
spoil the movie for you by answering it.

Tim, we have talked about this a few times. Tell Ebert to call me.

Many of us think that it may be that they also use our brains, thought processes as an additional value of having us around. Note that computers aren't creative by nature. Maybe they use humans' cumulative creativity to improve themselves?

I don't expect any person that watches movies for a living, like they are on an assembly line to understand the instricasies (sp?) of this series.

Even in M2, the Architect said that he uses Neo to debug the Matrix and make it better. Assuming he's not lying about that, that is exactly one good reason why they don't keep humans comatose.

-WC-

I think the people that are plugged into the matrix are comatose, or pretty close to it. Also it might keep them alive longer if they think they are actually living a lie. And the whole thing about rejecting the initial matrix, maybe they could not keep the humans comatose that long without them rejecting it. People who are kept alive today on life support need a lot of energy consumed to keep them alive, maybe not as much energy is needed if the person thinks they are living a life. Regardless, having not tried to harness energy from millions of semi-comatose humans, I can't, and Roger Ebert can't discuss the details of the operation. It takes place in the future, you can't expect the future's technology to be explained today, why does he not ask why the AI does not just unscorch the sky? These questions are meaningless, and don't put a hole in the plotline.

I did not see wildcard's post before I just posted but now i have a question for it. Is not the definition of AI that it is creative. I think this is central in how the AI's became a race. They created themselves. The difference betwwen computers today and of AI is the creativity and thought process, AI does not have to be told to think.

thanks a lot wildcard...but mermel...the life support systems required to keep someone whose comatose alive are precisely what is within the pods from the matrix

one more question...will seeing reloaded answer my question( and thus enhance the whole movie experience) a simple solid yes or no will do

in further reply to wildcard....yes i have heard that the brain itself hold an impressive electric charge..and im sure if active the energy harvested would be far greater

Originally posted by WildCard
Even in M2, the Architect said that he uses Neo to debug the Matrix and make it better. Assuming he's not lying about that, that is exactly one good reason why they don't keep humans comatose.

Not that I agree with Ebert, but this argument is self-defeting. If the humans were kept comatose, the machines wouldn't need the matrix at all, hence nothing to improve.

nope, law of thermodynamics actually states that you can only get as much energy out MAX as what you put into it. So, you feed the humans, you'll get out of it only whatever you put in. That's assuming 100% efficiency.

-WC-

Originally posted by WildCard
nope, law of thermodynamics actually states that you can only get as much energy out MAX as what you put into it. So, you feed the humans, you'll get out of it only whatever you put in. That's assuming 100% efficiency.

What is this in response to? Sounds like a whole other argument (why use humams at all).

because they are like the most abundant thing on the planet that produces energy besides insects..and all the worlds natural resources were wiped out .... so the machines had the energy problem...and they had the human problem..they killed two birds with one stone simple as that

Someone sort of mentioned this, that the humans are comatose. The basic question then becomes does the brain work while a human is comatose. I'm a medical student and as far as I know we have very limited info on what truly goes on in a coma. So my guess is that the machines had to have something to occupy the minds of individuals becuase they are comatose and if there was nothing to occupy their minds they would wake up.


As for the entropy (power in=power out) this was answered in M1 where Morpheus says that the machines use humans ALONG WITH A FORM OF FUSION. This sidesteps the entropy question. So the machines can get more power out than is put in. Mathematically this might not work but remember this is a movie.

Obviously in any movie one can riddle the plot with holes if they disect it enough. One thing that occured to me is that if the agents can suddenly take the place of people in the matrix that are near disruptive events (ie. Neo wreaking havoc) why dont they just take the place of thousands of people and make it impossible for anyone but Neo to escape? Instead only enough appear to make it interesting and for Morpheus and others to just barely escape. Also I dont think the AI could just "unscorch the sky"

I think what Wildcard said pertaining to this question is a very good answer. The machines are constantly improving their programs and the matrix as a whole, and they therefore need the endless creativity and inspiration of humans to do so no matter how advanced they are.

The programs that are agents can only inhabit one body. In the first movie, there were 3 agents. They were the only ones. They never replicated at all. I dont think they could have. Only in the second film Agent Smith can it and its only because he is not an agent he is some kind of virus.

OK - all these discussions in this forum lead me to another question - perhaps worthy of a new thread, but since this one inspired it, here goes....

If the machines need the matrix for their power now that the humans 'scorched the sky' - what do they use the power for? What do the computer do besides maintaining the power plants, the matrix and fighting the humans?

Agent Smith in M1, when letting Morphius in on a little secret, tells him he can't stand the Matrix and wants out. He also claims that key is destroying Zion and then he can be free of 'this zoo, this prison, this reality'

Free to do what? where?

just another thought to boil your noodle later...

KL

Yeah, I mean, Smith is a computer program, so where would he go? Is there some kind of agenty type heaven or summat? By the way k-lynn, love your avatar, where'd you find it?

Warning spoiler








just a thought, in reloaded it is sugested that the "real world" is a second matrix. Thus the images of all those human energy plants are not real. Maby the Machines energy problem isn't the main reason why they created the matrix? Maby the created it for researching the human. A sort of testing ground. I feel that this is backed up by what the Archtect sead.

So you think humans are like ginuea pigs? That is possible, maybe the machines want to know why humans created them in the first place.

yes something along those lines. That would be an answer to a lot of questions

I think the Machines enjoy watching us be controlled. If we were simply comatose. I doubt the Machines would revel in their utter
complete control, :-}.

So basically, we've created a race of sadists. Great...

Originally posted by -T-I-M-
one more question...will seeing reloaded answer my question( and thus enhance the whole movie experience) a simple solid yes or no will do

I can't give you a solid yes or no, all I can tell you is it's going to make you question things even more lol.

yea it did lol