The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded Questions and Answers!!

System Crash is the name. I know everything about the first movie and i am ready to answer any questions from the first movie. But I just saw the Matrix Reloaded last night and i need to see it a few more times before it all settles in...This thread is designed for anyone who has questions about the movies and would like answers and would like to give their insight about the first two movies...

I have some questions if someone could answer any of these it would be cool...

1. There is a big possibility that a Matrix is within another Matrix.(this is so potential people who escape the original Matrix aren't really freed, but still in the overall Matrix) My question is when Neo stopped the sentinal at the end of the movie, how was he able to use his powers outside of the matrix..? This probably is answered already, but any insight would be nice!

"This paragraph is a little insight on Reloaded"
Everthing happens for a reason. So The Architect meets up with the one they call Neo."The One" The Architect says he has destroyed Zion several times. Also says that Neo is in a control. So again this is a belief that there is a second Matrix. Now the Architect would be part of the Matrix. So eventually we'll find out that it was his place to tell Neo he had a choice. Throughout the first two movies "choice" is brought up several times. (In the first movie Neo had the choice to either save his own life or Morpheus' and in the second had the choice to save Trinity or let her die, and he had the choice to save Zion or Destroy the Marix)...
Now if you go back Morpheus had said that the war would be over if the matrix was destroyed. The reason why the matrix wasn't destroyed was because Neo entered the door to save Trinity and Zion. This was a CHOICE Neo had made. I guess this is reading in too deep, but what i don't understand is the whole scene with The Architect. What was he telling Neo? Was he lying to Neo the whole time about Zion being destroyed or was he telling the truth truth? Also several times in the architect scene Neo is seen in the screen then they fade into one of his emotion screens and there Neo pops back up talking to the Architect? What's that all about??

Any insight would be nice.. I also have to see this movie again!!

Thanks

Originally posted by SystemCrash
I know everything about the first movie...

Ohhhh, this should be good. *sit's back and awaits the coming slaughter*

And pretty much all your ideas on the second movie have already been discussed here. You really should read existing threads before you post.

Uhhh how he uses powers outside the matrix? Because he isnt outside of it. Hes in a matrix inside the matrix.


"Woah What a mind job! What do you say to something like that?"

I totally agree with you that the matrix is in another matrix. I made a post in the spoiler section before i saw this since i didnt want to spoil the movie. Anyway, i think putting a matrix inside another matrix is the idea the oracle came up with, rather than the perfection that the architect wanted and couldnt achieve, she proposed near profection twice, which creates even nearer perfection. He said that 99 percent of the people excepted the original matrix, by having two it allows for the other 1 percent not to think they are in a matrix because they think they escaped, not knowing that there is actually another one. Also the guy that was trying to kill neo had to have been the one in the other matrix, or an agent. These imbedded matrices(i propose this is what they be called) seem to copy a little off the movie The Thirteenth Floor. Where there is a computer program inside a computer program. I hope that there are not imbedded matrices, cause that would be pretty corny, but I see no other logical explanation for the end of reloaded. Now that I see someone else agrees, it makes it seem even more of a reality, if I can call it that.

i guess i was a little cocky when saying that i knew everything about the first movie, but i do know a lot about it. Everyone has there own theory of what the matrix really is... i didn't mean to offend anyone being a newbie at all...

Really that's besides the point...Today at work i got some really good insight about Reloaded... Someone said the if the oracle is really a program inside the matrix she could be a potential agent... And one more thing that i got or i had a question about? Where is cypher, there were rumors he was going t come back...but as i recall he got pretty toasted up in the first movie...
But what is still boggling my mind...

1. Did the architect build both Matrix's? Is he a machine?
is he afraid of Neo?

I have so many questions.

Will someone please point out to me where in the movie they talk about a Matrix inside of a Matrix. They are all in one big Matrix. Not several different ones. Zion is in the Matrix and Neo is in the Matrix not other matrixes. But I could be wrong.

Saying you know EVERYTHING about the first movie, isn't very wise, especially when you have mods and Administrators who have seen the first movie over 80 times, I myself have seen The Matrix, the first one, enough times that I can't remember how many times I've seen it...

The questions that you asked have pretty much already been answered within other threads. :) Take a look around you may find some really interesting responses.

What does it mean..............................I don't know lol

I agree, sit back and read all the posts first before you create the thread.

You never know everythimg about a movie, that makes me think your mind is closed to everything but 2 dimensions.

Advice:watch it in the 3rd or possibly 4th dimensions and get back to us.

I will start off by saying that this is the greatest movie of all time.

lol.

The overall movie is hard to comprehend.. there is so much info coming at you at once and then more right after, its to hard to think i all through, it can give you a migrane.

I would think the matrix is within another matrix but, considering the things hes done, he cant just be somethiogn that wasnt meant to be... This movie is philosophical lol.
All about choice...
The whole prophecy thing and knowing what Neo will do anyway, but then hearing what they say before that...
It leads back to the Oracle where she tells him a lie and Neo has to figure out everything for himself and prove them wrong and he did in the first, and I think he will do the same in the third.
Morpheus at the end seemed to all of a sudden lose hope but something happened with Neo and he had powers he had in the matrix that he shouldnt have in real life, but does..

So, it all kinda goes back to the oracle and Neos first discussion like Neo with the architect..
He is told one thing, but its really the opposite and he will soon later prove to himself and it will all come together.

There is a difference between knowing the path, and taking it.
We can only show you the door, you are the one that has to walk through it.

:-)

Just my opinions and theories..

I have to go see it again tonight. lol

Originally posted by Psycho69

It leads back to the Oracle where she tells him a lie and Neo has to figure out everything for himself and prove them wrong
[..]
He is told one thing, but its really the opposite and he will soon later prove to himself and it will all come together.


There were a few things in the first movie that bothered the hell out of me - at first. It seemed to me that every scene had purpose, but a few didn't quite fit that theme. One was how the 'squeegie' guys seemed to unnerve Neo while being beraded by his boss. Someone later pointed out that what unnerved him was the way the soap ran down the window. (that it looked like the encrypted numbers of the matrix on the Neb screens)

Similarly, the scene with the oracle bothered me. Someone commented that some moderators have seen the movie 80 times? LIGHTWEIGHTS! I am hardly OCD about it but when bored, I will sometimes pull up a scene or two - or review something I heard about. I rewatched the oracle scene a number of times to analyze what I also perceived as a 'lie'.

But, in fact, she does not lie. "One of you is going to do die - which one is up to you!" In fact, Neo did die - and agent Smith re-affirmed that point in their first meeting in Reloaded. "When you died, something you did set me free." (I will comment on this in a second) Her words were accurate and what he needed to hear. Even when she commented about whether he was the one, she let him answer and simply did not contradict him. "you have the gift, but it's like you are waiting for something - your next life perhaps"

As Morphius pointed out later, she told him what he needed to hear. This of course could play either way into her involvement with the redundant creations of Zion. It assumes that she plays a role in directing Neo to the same conclusions, but does not necessarily point to her motives for participating. If each program within the Matrix 'has it's purpose' does she simply serve the purpose of pointing him on the path? Or does she supercede that framework as the so-dubbed 'mother' of the Matrix?

Smith creates an interesting aside - he is yet another program within the matrix - governed by rules. Yet, to all his knowledge - so is Neo. He shoots him - "I watched you die!" he says. But then Neo breaks the rules, comes back to life and 'infects' agent Smith who then learns that he does not necessarily need to follow the rules either and becomes a rogue.
Of course, now you have to ask - why still chase Neo? So I went back to M1 for the answers - when he speaks to Morphius in the government building. He very emphatically tells Morphius:

"I must get out of here, I must get free! And in this mind," squeezing Morphius's temples harder, "is the key .... my key! Once Zion is destroyed, there is no need for me to be here!"

Of course it could all just be part of his programming, but he also despises the humans. Upon describing it, his first words are "I hate this Zoo," going on to say "this prison, this reality - whatever you want to call it." Interesting choice of words that he would say 'zoo' before 'prison'. But the point is that he despises the humans for stranding him there.

Another interesting aside is that just prior to this he also suggests he was one of the minds behind the nature of the current matrix and even seemed to gloat with pride at it's 'perfection' and 'beauty'. Speaking of the previous version(s) of the matrix, he said:

"It was a disaster! No one would except the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But... I believed that human beings as a species define their reality through misery and suffering."

I carefully listened to the Architects lecture to Neo due to my recollection of these statements and he did at least suggest that although he designed the first Matrix, he eluded to others cooperating in the conception of the current one. I will have to parse these scene better when I see it again. Any insights?

Now, there is one thing - besides the redundancy of the 13th Floor - that bothers me about a Matrix within a Matrix theory. The Wachowski brothers have been exceedingly careful IMHO to make the Matrix a believeable concept. I think this also extends - although fantastic in nature - to making it at least seem like a plausible possibility.

The level of 'perceived perspective' inside the matrix would have to be considerably different than perceiving real world stimulus. In M1 Morphius speaks to Neo in person for the first time:

"Let me tell you why you are here. You are here because you 'know something'. What you know, you can't explain - but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. There's something wrong with the world - you don't know what it is - but it's there... like a splinter in your mind... driving you mad."

This is fine if you have been connected since birth, as you would have no concept what 'real perception' feels like, looks like, sounds like, etc. But some - like Neo and others - would just realize that it's wrong - or perhaps feel the bars of their cage if they stretch their imaginations too far outside of the pre-defined parameters of the 'system'.

Thus if there was a broader scope Matrix outside of the Matrix, than technically it would have to be a 'better' one - with hightened perception. With less restraints. With at least a slightly different nature to the perceptions.

Of course, this said - if you never perceived real sensation - they could purposely limit the 'inner matrix' to weed out the 'anomolies' that would cause it to fail. To allow Neo to see the true nature of the 'inner' matrix while in it, but somehow not on the outer - it's all too confusing to ponder.

I won't speculate too much on the possible ramifications of a teired system like this - but it could have some interesting end results. Just one example is - if as the Architect said, that matrix has been around longer than they perceived - if it has been 'reseeded' from just a couple dozen people and was already to 250,000 citizens - if the people of Zion perceive waging a 100 year war - and if 'anomolies' such as neo have existed at least 5 times before - that would assume that more than (and assuming 3 dozen people cannot wage war until their population grows significantly - perhaps far more than) 500 years have passed just since the creation of the 'new' form of the Matrix.
Then there is no telling how many years passed with the versions that failed or in the years of human society before the machines struck out against man and man in turn 'scorched the skies'.

I still keep hearkening back to other possible 'needs' for the humans. The battery concept seemed a little too cut-and-dried. Perhaps using the brain capacity (they say we only use some 15% of our brain) for memory, or depending on us for true 'creativity' for the inspiration of new ideas and concepts to add to the matrix.
If there is in fact a Matrix in a Matrix - the entire story could have different twists. Perhaps if there is a (thermal) power need, that very need could have been superceded through other means long ago - thus is why the Architect is not afraid to let the Matrix fail again, or to have Neo choose the other path to cause it all to be destroyed and purportedly have the humans doomed to extinction.

A recurring theme in many Dystopian dramas is that the structure exists not only for control, but some 'need' for the sense of control beyond just keeping order. That in fact, it continues to exist because the designers or founders themselves strive the power of that control. It could be that the Matrix was to keep the people complacent but now lives on to feed that hunger or the curiousity to perfect the nature of that control.

I still don't think it will turn out to be the 'Matrix in a Matrix' concept - there are too many potential rats nests to be run into combing out that concept - but imagine perhaps, that beyond the outer matrix, the skies have long since cleared and the need for humans is long since redundant - that just a few rogue, obsoleted programs have kept the power plants alive. Upon escaping the 'outer matrix' they might walk out on forested landscapes. Just a few thoughts...

By the way - I stumbled on the 'MAINFRAME' section of www.whatisthematrix.com - there are some great stories in the 'comix' section and some excellent essays on the various philosophical ramifications of the matrix. If you really enjoy the genre due to the socio-philosophical implications, I really suggest watching those sections of the official site.

KL

Originally posted by Psycho69
There is a difference between knowing the path, and taking it.

If ur gonna quote...you gotta do it right...
"There's a BIG difference between knowing the path, and WALKING the path." Morpheus

I dont need to be exact with the quotes.

Post edited for use of language.

Anyone here seen lawnmover man? If anyone has seen lawnmower man you will remember that origionally he could do anythign inside the computer world. Then suddenly, unexplained, he started being able to do things outside in the real world. Maybe Neo is so powerful he can do things outside the matrix too. Like morpheus said, reality is just electrons going to our brains and the interpretation of them. Maybe Neo can even change things enough to alter the REAL reality.

I am beginning to think that the matrix within a matrix idea is kinda stupid. If it was...why would they need to destroy Zion. However, if you really think about it, the real world IS a matrix. It has laws, it has a maker (that would be God, shaddup atheists, just pretend for a minute), and we can make choices here to. There has to be some sort of "code" or something for this world. Animals and plants and such would be like programs. Maybe if you are great enough, you can change this world to. Explaining the end of the movie. Also if it was just another matrix, why did doing that have that effect on him?

The Matrix is the best movie ever made.
I just want to tell you people something, there is no doubt that the matrix is great, and very controversial, but it is just a movie..... you can only see things as far as the creators of that movie wants you to. So dont fret about whether it is a "matrix in a matrix" just enjoy the movie

BTW moderator man, I have seen the original matrix 143 times...

Just for clarification K-lynn said that {The battery concept seemed a little too cut-and-dried. Perhaps using the brain capacity (they say we only use some 15% of our brain) for memory, or depending on us for true 'creativity' for the inspiration of new ideas and concepts to add to the matrix. }. This idea that humans only use a portion of the brain is based on very old data and is a popular myth. Based on all current research humans use all their brains. Though the myth is so common the W brothers might not realize this.

on one of the emotion monitors, bc that is the emotion neo chose to answer the questions with. The monitors showed all of neo's possible reactions and the ones the monitor zoomed in on was the one he chose to give....

Blurr

If anyone has seen lawnmower man you will remember that origionally he could do anythign inside the computer world. Then suddenly, unexplained, he started being able to do things outside in the real world.

Jacob developed those skills because of the chemical treatments that Pierce Brosnan's character was giving him which increased his brain's ability.

You don't think being The One might have the same reaction....BTW, just to nitpick, how would increasing you brains abilty make you telekentic or give you other tele-powers?

NILation,

We are discussing 2 movies now.

LawnMower Man: It has been theorized by scientists that ESP and telekinesis is just a matter of learning how to use more of your brain. This was part of the experiment on Jacob.

Matrix 2: The W brothers have followed a pattern of the bliss of the Matrix which is not real and the harsh brutality of the real world that is the truth, I find it harder to believe they would give Neo superman skills in this harsh reality. One, it is my opinion that this idea would be stupid, but two, it does not follow the pattern of the 1st movie.

Just my opinion. Love this bulletin board. Thanks

Hello,
Well as most of you I have still a few (alot) questions and unclarities about the movie. So ofcourse I could be wrong about many things I'm writing down; nevertheless let's give it a shot. At the end of Matrix Reloaded Neo realises (after his much debated talk with The Architect) that being the one is like a controlling program. --> So being the One would be part of TheMatrix and everything he does has somehow been foreseen (calculated) by it. Yet Neo got unplugged from the Matrix thanks to Morpheus, so how can TheMatrix read Neo's mind? And also because the Architect states that Zion has already been destroyed multiple times; why would the machines still need a the one to rebuild Zion (together with the people he gets to unplug in order to rebuild the city)? --> Would the Architect have been bluffing? Perhaps the Oracle just is what she said she is, which would mean that she's not a computerprogram. This would also mean that The Oracle did show Neo the path, which gave him powers in the real world. I think that Neo being able to stop the Sentinels at the end caused a lot of speculation. -->Would there be another Matrix or not? I don't really think this would be the case. It somehow seems too easy. I think more or less the same as klinn (I think it was); That By knowing the Matrix Neo also gets to know the real world (following more or less the same rules as The Matrix).
Another unclarity appears to be Agent Smith. How he was able to survive and how he's able to turn people into his copies. Since Smith is (was) a program how did the copied human get out The Matrix? (the one that turns into Smith and goes to Zion--> the traitor who tried to kill Neo in Zion)? Another reason to believe in a second Matrix (which I don't!)
When Neo has to make the choice in the maneframe with the architect between Trinity and destruction of The Matrix //and to get 23 people out of the matrix with the code, I think Zion had not yet been destroyed; some people say otherwise, but I think the loss was the one of the ships involved in a preemptive strike on strategic points.
In Revolutions much of my questions will be filled in ofcourse or who knows it'll already be done when I watch the movie again.;) :p ;)

Originally posted by NILation
However, if you really think about it, the real world IS a matrix. It has laws, it has a maker (that would be God, shaddup atheists, just pretend for a minute), and we can make choices here to. There has to be some sort of "code" or something for this world. Animals and plants and such would be like programs. Maybe if you are great enough, you can change this world to. Explaining the end of the movie.

This is definitely going to be a long one, so if you don't want to be bored, just skip this and go to the next post.

What I interpreted the first Matrix to be was this: we all live in a Matrix. I'll even accommodate the atheists: the rules are not God(s)'s - they are ours. When Morpheus tells Neo of the "bondage", that we are all born slaves, the "wool over our eyes" - come on, it is so obvious that it is us (or, at least, most people I know)! We are all born thinking that we have to live a certain way - graduate, get a job, have babies, save for retirement. On a smaller scale we wake up, go to work, go to sleep... then the weekend comes... an occasional vacation. I know I would like to change my Matrix, but I have too much stuff weighing me down: what would people think of me?.. I've worked so hard for this... all of my stuff is here, and if I go where I want to go, maybe I will never have this kind of stuff... I am afraid! What if what is behind the door I think I want to open sucks?!

Society has all of these standards, all of these norms for us, all of the ways we are supposed to live our lives; I mean, it is very clear-cut - what is socially acceptable, and what is not. Ever heard anyone say "He thinks he is an artist? He should really keep his day job." I personally have a friend who is getting the Masters from one of the most respectable programs in the country, and her parents say to her "It's all nice and fine, but when are you going to get married and have children?" To not want to do that is some sort of heresy.

Paulo Coelho in the "Alchemist" tells the story of a guy who was a shepherd in Spain, and had a dream of finding a treasure in the Pyramids. He wants to realize his dream, but his life is so comfortable, so NORMAL, so predictable!!! Coincidentally, this is Lawrence Fishbourne's next movie.

Some people have exited (Bruno), re-made (Soviet Revolution), or even deleted (Jesus) the Matrix. Most attempts failed (Socrates, Utopians, etc.).

This was my understanding of M1 - people trying to break free of THEMSELVES - the machines are just a metaphor for society's controls.
And it took me - what - like 70 viewing times to fit all the pieces into the puzzle. The concept of choice and fate also agreed with my understanding perfectly.

And now M2! And it is so different! And it seems like I put together a wrong puzzle!

I have read so many threads here, but do not yet find answers. Instead, most of what I read only rises more questions (which is always welcomed, but still frustrating).

But I know that it is too much for one post, and so I will save my questions for other times.

Thanks if you read through all my rambling.

Originally posted by TheDrakemaster
Another unclarity appears to be Agent Smith. ;) :p ;)

If you think about it, Smith - an agent of the machines (one intelligent race) who separates himself from his Masters - is not unlike the Devil - an angent (angel) of God who separated himself from his Master. Devil, embodying a concept of Evil, spreads (copies), and creates his own race. Here you have the three intelligent races - the God(s), the humans, and the Fallen Angel.

Well, I saw Reloaded again and things became much clearer. The Oracle has made a matrix in which humans believe they have a "choice". This matrix seems to be very succesful and almost all people accept it. Still, some (a few) people don't and that's why she created a the one to make the matrix also acceptable for them (and thus control them). The machines are sure they can every time again destroy Zion and make the one make the same decision over and over again (the decision of opting for the rebuildining of Zion).
Yet if the one gets to rebuild the matrix how does it come noone from Zion knows that this isn't the first time they build the city? Do the machines plant an artificial memory in as well the one as the other (set-free) humans?
How can they expect to control the one if he is capable of getting out of the matrix? They can't control him when he's outside the matrix. -->So is there a matrix outside the matrix? I don't think so. Let's watch Revolutions and then we'll know for sure and be able to sleep on two ears.

I've never seen a movie that inspires such deep thought.

and brilliant action:D

Ok so you want to know how he can stop setinels at the end in the "real" world outside the Matrix.... WELL! HEres the scoop. There is no second matrix. If you may recal this was a very small thing in The Matrix, remember when Tank, Dozers Younger brother Killed Sypher? I remember! and what was the reason for this "miracle"? It was because of Neo. Yes Miracles can happen and prophecies can come true in the real world!! so now you all have the answer!!!!!!!!
"I can't Pull this plug... I mean if he really is the One then there would have to be some kind of miracle to stop me..."