Who sold out the Oracle?

During Enter the Matrix, the following conversation occurs between the Oracle and Ghost:

Ghost - Can you tell me what happened to you? [Referring to why the Oracle now looks different]

The Oracle - Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.

Ghost - Why did they do that?

The Oracle - For love... For the life of their child.

Ghost - You knew about it, and yet you let it happened?

The Oracle - I had to...

Ghost - Why?

The Oracle - Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe that one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.

WHO are the two programs that sold out the Oracle?

I have read this forum at least 30 times and yet i still cant figure it out i was trying to think of sets of two



The Twins-,But they don`t have a child,or at least i hope not

Agent Smith And His co-partner-,But they don`t have a child either,or at least i hope not,either that or every freaking bad guy is homosexual

having a bad headache write back later

Another question: Presumably, why does the Merovingian want to destroy the Oracle?

My answer to both questions:

1-I believe the parents of that Popper kid in Animatrix (See oracle's apartment)

2-The oracle is an exile, also search for that post by me.


NIghTHawk WaS HeRe

NightHawk, who do you think the parents of Popper are? Are they programs that have appeared in M1 or M2? Is Popper a program or a human, why or why not? If Popper is a human, how can programs be the parents of a human.

Wow - thanks so much for the info!

Can't say much until I play as Ghost; but so far I think the parents are the M's creators - the Architect and the "mother". Their "child" is the matrix itself.

Hmm... I wonder what the price that the Merovingian paid was.

Playing through ETM as Niobe, I seem to remember the Oracle explaining that it was Merovingian that betrayed her...maybe I interpreted what she said to mean that...it's been a few months...but if that were true, it would mean that Merovingian and Persephone would be the TWO and their child could be...whom?

Yanka hit it right on the head. The Oracle says that she was betrayed by two programs whom she thought she could trust. She goes on to say that the two programs were protecting their child. There is no need to delve more deeply into it than that. We were told by the Architect that he is the father of the Matrix and that an intuitive program was it's mother (Persephone, presumably).

The child, I deduce and hope, is the Matrix. I just hope it is not a previously unknown character. That would make Neo less of the One. The One would be that child (if it is not the Matrix) because the Oracle says that one day that child will change your world and mine.

As far as why the Merovingian wants the Oracle (this cycle around), I can only guess. Perhaps the Merovingian is aware that this Neo is "the" One and will finally choose the left door. In doing so, Neo will put into motion the undoing all of the Merovingian's power. So, maybe the Merovingian is trying to prevent Neo from reaching the Architect. Think about it...whose help does Neo need to reach the Architect? The Oracle and the Keymaker. And, who does the Merovingain hold captive...the Keymaker. And, furthermore, of whom is the Merovingian in hot pursuit...the Oracle. He does terminate the Oracle's ol shell. Why? Easy...to cast doubt on whether or not the Oracle is the Oracle...whether or not she can be trusted.

Am I off base here, Yanka?

If the Matrix itself is the child, then how is this child any different than the last three versions of the Matrix? And if the Arc and Persephone are the parents, why who she give Neo the Keymaker?

Good question. I don't know why this Matrix is different if, in fact, it is the child of which the Oracle spoke. No clue.

Persephone gives the Keymaker to the Merovingian because she is tired of all of this. She wants out. She knows she can never be human...she wants to experience love. Maybe she simply wants everything to be over. Neo, after he kisses her, proves and validates his true love for Trinity. At that point, Persephone shows Neo the way to the Keymaker. Why? Neo's kiss has solidified the fact that he will choose the left door...pretty much guaranteeing (sp) that the Matrix will not be reloaded and Persepone's escape from the Merovingian and the Matrix in her present form. What do you think?

Good thinking Neo's cousin....I hadn't thought about Persephone's kiss as a test of Neo's love. I guess being apart of Neo's family has its advantages.

It has its perks...lol.

Yeah...I have another theory about why Neo chose the left door and his kiss with Persephone. I will let you hear if you like.

Tell that too.. :)
By the way, I think it was a test too..

Originally posted by Neo's Cousin


The child, I deduce and hope, is the Matrix.

yeah, i made the same assumption in the Animatrix forum. i agree this is quite puzzling indeed. i guess there a lot a puzzling things in the FMVS that are in the game.they are suppsed to help you understand the movie, but it just makes things worse :Q

i can access to that game at work, i could probably do a trnascript of all the scenes if someone is interested into that.

get on with your ideas...just post, don't ask :D

Jebulum, dearest, if you have the scripts - please just post them. I'm sure we're all interested.

Neo's Cousin
Well, talking about not delving deep! I think you have hit just about every nagging question.

Why does the Merovingian want the Oracle?

First, who is the Merovingian? He is some sort of a Gnostic anti-Christ figure, and he is Persephone's husband (the real Persephone's husband was the ruler of the underworld). I will assume (among other things) that the Merovingian is the Architect's (Creator's) nemesis.

The Oracle says that the Merovingian wants more power. He already has all power over the Matrix's "underworld" (he is the ruler/creator of all exile/hack programs). Could it be that he now wants power over ALL of the Matrix? But if he is to rule the Matrix, he must: a) overthrow its current ruler (apocalypse coming?); b) terminate the Oracle - it is her prophecies that ensure the reboot every time. That is probably why he captured the Keymaker - to prevent the fulfillment of the prophecy this time. He also tells Neo to warn the Oracle that "her time is almost up".

His plans must be based on the premise that the Matrix is no different than the previous 5 times. But this Matrix is ALREADY different! Smith is in it, and - apparently - Smith wants to change it as well. Oops, getting off track... sorry...

So, my guess is that the Merovingian wants the Oracle (or, rather, wants her "dead") because she is in his way - as well as pretty much everybody else, including Neo.

But now we get to the question of "how is this Matrix different"?

Let's start here - when did it become different?
When Neo "destroyed" Smith at the end of M1. No other Ones were capable of doing this.
The difference presently is dual: a) a different One; b) a virus in the system.

So the Architect's "child" is in double jeopardy now - from Smith, and from the Merovingian. AND, whereas before, there were two opposing forces - AI and... HI, now there are 4 - Architect, humans, Merovingian, and Smith.
The Architect wants the Matrix as is. The Merovingian wants the Matrix for himself. Smith wants to infect it, and, given his M1's speech, to destroy it.

What do the humans want? They think they KNOW, but, as Merovingian points out to Neo, they DON'T.

What does the Oracle want? She is supposed to be (according to legend) a disinterested party - the Greek oracles are merely a mouthpiece of the gods; it is not their job to ensure that the future happens as it is related. But now the Oracle says that the only thing she is interested in is the future, and that the only way to get there is together. OK, together with... who? Apparently not with Smith - unless her "you must stop him tonight" was in reference to the Merovingian. It's not the Architect either - if he did sell her out. And it is most certainly not Merovingian - he wants her dead. So, if the Matrix itself is the child in question, I would guess that this is where it becomes important, and this is where it would change the worlds ("your" world being, obviously, human, and "our" world being... whose?) forever. I admit, though, that I have no clue how...

Neo's cousin....Please post your theory about Neo choosing the left door and his kiss with Persephone.

Jebulum....Like Yanka said, we're all interested. That's why we're here on this forum! Please post any matrix related transcripts !

And what is LOL...is it Lots of love or lots of laughs or something else? Please explain.

LOL stands for Laughing Out Loud, my friend, Jaded.

It is weird that machines and humans really want the same thing:

A positively symbiotic relationship. If the machines wouldn't mind aout their creators, would just kill them all and utilise another kind of mammals, like cows, donkeys or others.

Their eventual come up will probably be like

"We have the power to destroy all of you but we will do what we are originally designed to do, serve you.

How do you think you could possibly exist in a world of a dark sky?
Where no food would grow, where tons of radiation spoil the atmosphere, something done by you, not us?

We will keep your species alive, just because we find it moral. Just to show you our gratitude for creating us.

But not in a way that would render you able to do again what your erratic understanding and egocentric behaviour has done before - try to destroy us just because you don't recognise we can be equals."




...by the way, the machines might just be waiting for the sky to clear, who knows....... ...but not for killing all humans, but releasing them.

And I bet that was the exact text of the agreement signed by the machine in the second part of the second renaissance, an the UN scene, right before the Child scene.

I hope you understand my point.

I posted this before...here goes. Please respond!!!

For Yanka, Jaded, Jebulum et. al.

These questions may have been answered before but none to my satisfaction. So, here goes...

1. Does the One look like Neo every single cycle?

2. Is Morpheus the person who unplugs the One every cycle?

3. Was Trinity present in every single prior Matrix?

Think before you answer...I had to. Let me have your input.

I know, I know. You may claim that it doesn't matter what the One looks like. You may be right. However, I believe it does matter and is both a very relevant and pertintent point to the movie. Here's why.... If the One is always Neo then can one assume that Morpheus and Trinity are always present in the cycle unplugging, training, guiding, and loving Neo along his way to the Architect? Or are the players always different? For example...(not a fact, just a theory)...maybe for the first cycle, the One was the Merovingian (Neo, this cycle) and his sidekick was Persephone (Trinity, this cycle).

If we assume that all the players are the same every cycle then what makes it different this time around? Remember, Morpheus states in the Matrix that he was unplugged by a man who could manipulate the Matrix the way he saw fit. To me, that reads loud and clear that Morpheus tells us that he was unplugged by the previous One. If that is true, then it must be a fact that the previous One needed Morpheus...that's why Morpheus gets unplugged. Every cycle, the previous One unplugs him. Why else would he unplug Morpheus? It is not a coincidence. The One needs Morpheus.

Now...what about Trinity? Does Morpheus always unplug her? I would say he does...every time every cycle...in his search for the One. Whoever he unplugs Morpheus brings them to the Oracle to see if they are the One. Why does Morpheus do this? Why is he so into the prophecy? Remember...the computers who run Matrix want the One to reach the source and reload. They want that to happen. So whatever Morpheus is told or whatever choices he makes is his life (choices, beliefs, etc.) are always going to end up assisting the One in reaching the source. Same with Trinity. She is always there...every cycle. However, something different happened this time.

Love is the difference. But not how you think. The machines welcome the reload every time because with every reload they refine the Matrix...make it better...learn more about what it is to be human. All the heuristic concepts that can be experienced by humans (the abstract...love, hate, hope, anger, etc.) are learned more about by the computers every 100 year cycle of each Matrix. Here's where love comes into play. To borrow from Asimov and a few posts out here...the machines/computers are not capable of choice. That is, they cannot make the choice to destroy the human race...they were programmed by man to serve us not kill us. Therefore, they need a human to make that choice to destroy us.

Love is used against Neo to choose the left door. The Architect informs Neo that he can either reload the Matrix by choosing the right door or he can choose the left door and cause the destruction of the human race and Zion, etc.. There is the choice the machines could never make...to destroy us. Neo is coerced by love to choose the left door. The love is for Trinity. This love is tested by Persephone with a kiss. He passes and Persephone relays the information to the Architect to let him know that Neo is in love and will probably act illogically and choose the left door. It is illogical because logic dictates that a whole species is more important than a single being.

So...was Trinity present for every cycle? Again...I say yes. But what has been missing from the previous cycles was the love factor. See, the machines/computers, through the four/five previous cycles, have become hip to the power of love. That is, they know how powerful love can be and how irrational the feeling of love is. They know that love with make a human disregard all reason and force humans into illogical choices/decisions. Finally, the machines have figured out how to make the One make the decision they have always wanted the One to make...the one that the machines/computers never could make...to destroy their makers. This is accomplished by making the One choose the left door...which is what the machines always wanted the One to do. I would argue that they never really wanted the One to reload.

They needed a human to make that choice. They employed love as a means to their desired end. Neo "chose" the left door out of love. (But was it really his choice? Or is choice just an illusion as the Merovingian said? Save that for another post.)

We'll have to see what happens.... Yanka, Jaded, Jebulum, et. al...I am waiting for your thoughts.

I don't really have time right now to go into details, and I'm going away for 4 days.

Briefly, however - why do you think that Morpheus was freed by a One? Here is what Morhpeus said to Neo:
---------------------------
When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth. As long as the Matrix exists the human race will never be free. After he died the Oracle prophesied his return and that his coming would hail the destruction of the Matrix and the war, bring freedom to our people.
----------------------------
That One freed "first of US" - most likely, the first inhabitants of Zion, one of whom - later - unplugged Morpheus. That does not, however - to me - negate the fact that the One "needs" Morpheus.

As for your theory - please check out this thread http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4269
It would seem that Azimov's law has already been broken. More importantly, your theory supposes that AI does not possess what seems to be a crucial attribute of "intelligence" - free will. Robots don't have "free will"; AI (and any other true "Intelligence", for that matter) must, and, as evedenced by Animatrix, does have free will.

I'll get back to you in a few days.

Originally posted by Neo's Cousin
I posted this before...here goes. Please respond!!!

For Yanka, Jaded, Jebulum et. al.

These questions may have been answered before but none to my satisfaction. So, here goes...

1. Does the One look like Neo every single cycle?

2. Is Morpheus the person who unplugs the One every cycle?

3. Was Trinity present in every single prior Matrix?



1/ don't know

2/ not sure

3/ maybe

i've read the transcript several times and the movie keeps sending you to different interpretations, so i will keep my judgement until i have all the informations required to fully understand the movie, and the missing piece of infos is called revolutions.

when the merovingian talks about cause and effect, he's talking about the role of the anomaly in the matrix.
the Achitect offers a choice to neo (the 2 doors),that demonstrates that choices are possible in the matrix.

the discussion between Niobe and the oracle in the Game tends to express same idea.or not.:D

your theory seems a possibility, but i do not understand why machines would need a human to destroy humanity.i'm not even sure that neo is fully human.
that decision was taken by the machines when they declared war after their rights were denied by humans in the animatrix.

imagine you are a program for 2 seconds, how would you see humanity ? the cancer of earth, as smith stated. cancer must be eradicated. humanity wasn't , for the simple reason that the machines needed them as a source of energy, like before that humans needed machines.

everything, from the oracle to the merovingian and smith, shows programs as entities, with free will.Machines are programs with a physical body.


Now, was neo always here ? did all ones choose the left door ? is neo the reincarnation of the previous one ? who is the merovingian ? who is the guy with long hair that's in the merovingian scene and that say to niobe that Zion lasted 72 hours last time it was attacked, and that he's just a watcher ?

dunno.it's hard to guess without interpreting and so deforming the facts.


btw, i will do a transcript of the game, will probably begin on monday, and do one scene a day or sommat.