what do the characters' names-hacker aliases mean?

freeyourmind

very interesting link there, Jebulum. It also supports the theory a guy called fiatlux put forward a coupla weeks ago, that the matrix is based on the gnostic worldview - we live in a world controlled by an evil demon, but if we acquire certain knowledge or understanding we can escape this world and enter another, controlled by a merciful and good god. According to this theory, maybe Zion is a matrix in a matrix, only this second matrix was created and is ruled over by a good god...
I want to correct a mistake I made with my first post. Nebuchadnezzar was not a Persian ruler - I was thinking of Ahashverosh - he was a ruler of the Babylonian empire. He also appears in the Jewish scriptures. I know he appears in the book of Daniel and he might also appear in other books. However, I can't remember any specific details about him and his personality. Can anyone help me out here?

Also, Tank and Dozer were born in the real world. They didn't pick their own names - Their parents did. So we shouldn't really expect them to have any meaning symbplic to the matrix.
By the way, Mouse is probably called that because he's the smallest.
Does anyone know what was the function of the Gnostic aeon Trinity?

freeyourmind

Neo: New(?), anagram of the word ONE

Trinity: Holy Trinity, Gnostic aeon

Morpheus: Gnostic (or Greek) god of dreams, contains the word morph - change

Cypher: Decyphers the Matrix, Zero in Arabic, can hide his true intentions? (I might elaborate on this later. As soon as I figure out what I'm meaning)

Tank, Dozer: were named by their parents so names probably don't have special meanings

Link: Same as above.

Switch: ?

Apoc: ?

Mouse: Maybe small?

Nebuchadnezzar: Ruler of Babylonian Empire - Does it have a symbolic meaning?

Jebulum

Apoc: Apocalypse.

freeyourmind

yeah, so...
the names are usually symbolic of something

Jebulum

Haven't you heard about the apocalypse or the judgement day in your religion ?

and since when Morpheus is gnostic god?

Cyqu

Yeah, could be right... apocalypse... but what does Apoc do to deserve that name?

yanka

Tank, Locke, and Hamman probably refer to the three respective philosophers (although the councilor could be the biblical Haman - probably more likely).

Apoc did not have to mean anything himself - his name is just a reference. Take Niobe, for example. The myth has to do with human arrogance (Noibe dares to claim herself to be better than a goddess) - that theme, I think, is one of the main ones in the movie; but Niobe herself is not the embodiment of that arrogance.

Cyqu

oke, I believe you are right.

freeyourmind

Originally posted by Jebulum
Haven't you heard about the apocalypse or the judgement day in your religion ?

and since when Morpheus is gnostic god?

Okay, I accepted that Apoc could refer to Apocalypse, but the names of the other characters referred in some way to their personalities:
Neo: anagram of The one,
Morpheus: God of dreams.
What does Apoc have to do with apocalypse?

As for Morpheus being a Gnostic god, check your link a coupla posts up. This is my source.

freeyourmind

Originally posted by yanka
Tank, Locke, and Hamman probably refer to the three respective philosophers (although the councilor could be the biblical Haman - probably more likely).

Apoc did not have to mean anything himself - his name is just a reference. Take Niobe, for example. The myth has to do with human arrogance (Noibe dares to claim herself to be better than a goddess) - that theme, I think, is one of the main ones in the movie; but Niobe herself is not the embodiment of that arrogance.

Why would the councilor be the biblical Haman? He actually seemed a nice guy. Or maybe it's a different Haman we're talking about?

As for your example with Niobe, she named herself. She decided to fight the machines and - this is basically saying she is better than her rulers and creators - in other words she is better than the gods.
Why would Apoc call himself by that name?
Could it be expressing his despairation - due to a meaningless life?

freeyourmind

Strike Anywhere

Neo: It's an anagram of the number one, not "the one". Personally, I'd relate it to the greek word of "New", since he's kind of the new presence in the world. That's just a preference though.

Morpheus: God of Dreams. His name had much more signifigance in the first movie, as he showed Neo that his world was a dream, and he introduced him to the real world.

Trinity: The holy trinity, God, Mary, Jesus, Holy Spirit.. yadda yadda yadda.

Apoc: Well, he's a hacker, and he probably thought he was a really good one. Bringing the "apocalypse" maybe? That's a total out of the blue guess, though. I doubt it has any real meaning, kind of like...

Switch: Switching over the computer networkes, and yadda bo badda. Probably no real deep meaning there, either.

Niobe: Mythological girl who said she was better than her oppressers. Probably could be related to the Matrix's Niobe fighting against the machines.

Locke: Most likely a reference to John Locke, 18th century philosopher. Although I see no similar character traits between these two people.

Captain Saurn (the other guy who's looking for Morpheus. He dies at the end): Saurn Kiekeggard, old school philosopher. Again, no similar character traits, but we never really got to know Captain Saurn, did we? :P

Ghost: I got nothing. Probably just some thing he made up 'cause he was sneaky and stealthy or something.

Cypher: He could decypher the Matrix? I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.

Zion: A holy city or place in Hebrew. Much like how the Matrix's zion is a very sacred haven or city.

Nebuchadnezzar: Ruler of the Babylonian empire. I can't think of a big signifigance to the ship.

That's it for me.

Jebulum

i don't think that names refers always to the personnality.

Nebuchadnezzar was a king who had a dream inspired by god which showed him a giant which was composed in 4 different metals (feet were in argile). gold for the head, etc. then, the giant exploded, and a mountain grow up from it,taking all over the world.

that dream was supposedly an indication of the 4 kindoms that ruled the world (last one was romans) .it is said that there won't be anymore kingdom trying to take over the world before the apocalypse.that's about what i remember.oh yeah, it's christian.

Strike Anywhere

Oh you should kill me for not remembering the exact lines, but when Morpheus watches the Nebuchadnezzar explode at the end of Reloaded, he whispers something along the lines of "I had a dream, and now the dream is gone". It could relate to the dream the Babylonian king had.

Jebulum

mmm. i think you might have got a point here...:D

Could M3 be the day of the judgement ?

ORACLE: Niobe.....

NIOBE: Do I know you?

ORACLE: You know me, though you just may not recognize me.

NIOBE: Are you telling me that you are the Oracle?

ORACLE: I know this may not be easy for any of you, change never is. I wish the face you remember was the face I was still wearing, but that face is gone.

NIOBE: If you are the Oracle, tell me if I believe you are.

ORACLE: You don't right now, but you will.

NIOBE: Are you going to tell me something to make me believe you?

ORACLE: Come on Niobe, you know I can't do that.

N: Why not?

O: Because I cannot make you do anything.

N: At least you sound the same.

O: As I said, you may not recognize the face, but who and what I am underneath remains the same.

N: Can I ask what happened?

O: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.

N: What was the choice?

O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.

this is the introduction of the new oracle.Gloria foster repllaced, and that fits into the story.sad.

N: Then Neo is still alive?

O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.

N: Can we free him?

O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.

N: Can I help?

O: That's why I called you. I cannot tell you what is going to happen. All I can do is hope that if given the chance, you will find the courage to do what you can.

N: You once told me you knew everything you needed to.

O: I do. I knew everything from the begining of this path to the end.

N: I don't understand.

O: Even I can't see beyond the end.

N: The end? Are you trying to tell me the world is going to end?

O: Yes. If we cannot save it, it will end.

N: You mean Neo.

O: I mean we. The path of the one is made by the many. I have a role to play just as you have yours.

i c 3 d r p z

judement day, is a very dangerous day.

yanka

Originally posted by freeyourmind
Why would the councilor be the biblical Haman? He actually seemed a nice guy. Or maybe it's a different Haman we're talking about?

Haman - I am very vaguely familiar with the subject, but wasn't he an enemy of the Jewish people? Of the people who were opressed and restrained, and seeking salvation? People whose Messiah led them to a promised land?
The Haman in the Matrix is a very shady character. Why is he pushing for co-existence (machine and human)? He is the one who clears the way for Morpheus when hardly anybody else in Zion believes the prophecy. Does he know where the prophecy leads; how much DOES he know? That's why I don't see him as a nice guy.

As for your example with Niobe, she named herself. She decided to fight the machines and - this is basically saying she is better than her rulers and creators - in other words she is better than the gods.?
I have to disagree. The hackers don't name themselves - the movie creators do. They have packed so many little hints everywhere - from graffiti on the walls to license plates - that it is beyond any doubt that the characters' names are just there to add to the story, not to reveal anything about the characters themselves (except for, maybe, Neo and The Oracle). Take Trinity - surely she did not think she was God personified when she "picked" her nick. The Brothers gave her that name because it adds a twist to the story. And, omg, I can only imagine what alias Neo would have picked if left to his own devices (lol... LonelyTom303... FreedomSeeker...)

As far as Niobe - she did not fight gods, she was not a rebel; she was just an arrogant, mean, hmmm... perhaps somewhat nimpho... sorry - can't resist calling her a biatch. Had she known the extent to which Leto would go in response to her ill-spirited remark, she would have probably never made it. I doubt anybody in their right mind would want to name themselves after her.

Why would Apoc call himself by that name?
Could it be expressing his despair - due to a meaningless life?

Why would only Apoc have a meaningless life? I'd say, if nothing else, a life sacrificed in the pursuit of a goal is not so meaningless. His name - again - is just a hint "Apocalips is coming." Or maybe it's not coming (because he dies)...

StrikeAnywhere
Good catch about Saurn!

Nebuchadnezzar and the dream.
The license plate of the Cadillac that Trinity drives is DA203. In Daniel 2:03, King Neb says: "I had a dream, and my spirit is troubled to know the dream." Morpheus says something similar when he witnesses the destruction of the Neb.

All the agents are named Smith, Brown, etc.; I think such common names are just to emphasize that an agent, as Morpheus said, is potentially anyone. Smith's name gains new meaning when he turns into universal evil spreading itself onto anything it touches.

I don't want to be credited with any creativity; all of this stuff has been discussed here in May; anybody interested should do a search - you'd be surprised how many answers to your questions you can find.

Hitman

As for other characters having meaningful names...

Smith: Smith is one of the most generic names possible...next to John Doe. Smith, as an agent, was to be everywhere and nowhere...to be an "everyman" if you will. Agents were designed as generic...to appear human but not to stand out...

Trinity: Plenty of threads exist on what Trinity's name and purpose are, so I won't touch that one.

Morpheus: I'm not sure, but I think Morpheus was a Greek character...someone will have to look that one up, but I know that he's definitely taken from either mythology or psychology...i think he had something to do with dreams.

Switch, Mouse: both of these characters are named for computer parts...I'd say they probably represent lesser aspects of the Matrix and also, since they too were hackers, their names come from that aspect.

Tank, Dozer: two characters from outside the matrix...these two are named more for their size, and obvious strength.

Link: My guess would be he's the link between the first operator in M1 and his girl (Zee) and her family...he promised Tank he'd take over operating on the Neb and Zee is Tank's sister.

Merovingian: I know there's a thread on this one too...have to go find it.

Persephone: Greek mythology; Daughter of Demeter (I think), grabbed by Hades and forced to live in the underworld...Kind of how the Merovingian has a hold over her until she defies him in Reloaded to help Neo and crew...

Please correct/add as you all see fit...

freeyourmind

originally posted by yanka
Haman - I am very vaguely familiar with the subject, but wasn't he an enemy of the Jewish people? Of the people who were opressed and restrained, and seeking salvation? People whose Messiah led them to a promised land?
The Haman in the Matrix is a very shady character. Why is he pushing for co-existence (machine and human)? He is the one who clears the way for Morpheus when hardly anybody else in Zion believes the prophecy. Does he know where the prophecy leads; how much DOES he know? That's why I don't see him as a nice guy.

Haman was the second in command to the Persian ruler Ahashverosh (see my first posts). He wanted to exterminate the Jewish population of the Persian Empire but failed in the end. This was a holocaust of mass proportions (probably very similar to the one in the 1930s), narrowly avoided. We Jews celebrate this every year on the festival of PURIM.
Councilor Haman was not the only one who clears the way for Morpheus. The whole council decides to send two ships to protect the Nebuchadnezzar. And since when is pushing towards co-existence a shady attribute? I have a funny feeling this trilogy and war could end with co-existence and compromise.
But even if Haman doesn't mean well, his evil is by no means resembling of the biblical Haman, and besides, the only people who'd know about this Haman would be Jews and people who study Judaism (which isn't a lot of people).
No, I think it makes much more sense that the name refers to the philosopher Hamann. So if you or anybody else knows anything about the philospher's main beliefs, it would be very helpful if they shared it with us.

I have to disagree. The hackers don't name themselves - the movie creators do. They have packed so many little hints everywhere - from graffiti on the walls to license plates - that it is beyond any doubt that the characters' names are just there to add to the story, not to reveal anything about the characters themselves (except for, maybe, Neo and The Oracle). Take Trinity - surely she did not think she was God personified when she "picked" her nick. The Brothers gave her that name because it adds a twist to the story. And, omg, I can only imagine what alias Neo would have picked if left to his own devices (lol... LonelyTom303... FreedomSeeker...)

As far as Niobe - she did not fight gods, she was not a rebel; she was just an arrogant, mean, hmmm... perhaps somewhat nimpho... sorry - can't resist calling her a biatch. Had she known the extent to which Leto would go in response to her ill-spirited remark, she would have probably never made it. I doubt anybody in their right mind would want to name themselves after her.

We might have to agree to disagree here, but I think that part of the idea of The Matrix, is that the internet and DOS worlds are the real ones and the life in the Matrix is fake. An important part of living in the real world is having real choice. I think this expresses itself, among other things, by being being able to choose your name yourself, so as to have it reflect your personality, even if it's only on the subconscious level.
By the way, apparantely Trinity is also the name of a Gnostic aeon. I don't know what it did though and therefore am not sure of its symbolic meaning.
I don't know what you're talking about with Niobe and Leto. Is that from the game? Again, on the subconscious level, maybe she wanted to fight her rulers.

Why would only Apoc have a meaningless life? I'd say, if nothing else, a life sacrificed in the pursuit of a goal is not so meaningless. His name - again - is just a hint "Apocalips is coming." Or maybe it's not coming (because he dies)...

StrikeAnywhere
Good catch about Saurn!

Nebuchadnezzar and the dream.
The license plate of the Cadillac that Trinity drives is DA203. In Daniel 2:03, King Neb says: "I had a dream, and my spirit is troubled to know the dream." Morpheus says something similar when he witnesses the destruction of the Neb.

When Apoc named himself, he wasn't a freedom fighter yet. He was a bored hacker that felt something was wrong with this world but couldn't pinpoint exactly what. That would drive anyone crazy.
Morpheus's exact line is: "I dreamed a dream, and now that dream has gone from me."
That sounds like it was quoted from somewhere, but it's not from that particular verse.

freeyourmind

I tried to sum up here all of your opinions and all of the names.
Please point out to me if I missed anything.

Neo - new (hope, beginning?), anagram of the one

Trinity - holy trinity, Gnostic aeon (what did it do?).

Morpheus - God of dreams, contains the word Morph.

Cypher - Decyphers the Matrix (his job), true intentions are cyphered (hidden), Zero in Arabic (Together with Neo - completes binary system)

Tank, Dozer, Link - Named by their parents therefore no special meaning, named for their size and function (Tank and Dozer are big men, Link links between Tank and Dozer and Zee (doesn't Zee link them to him?)

Switch - refers to hacking (isn't an important character so name isn't symbolic)

Mouse - desktop mouse, small.

Apoc - apocalypse (but why is he named that?)

Smith, Jones, Brown - Very Common names (every person is a potential agent)

Nebuchadnezzar - Babylonian Empire's ruler (what were his personality traits?)

Niobe - claimed to be better than Greek gods (Fight against her creators - gods)

Zee - ? (was not a main character)

Commander Locke - Philosopher (what were his beliefs

Councilor Hamann - Philosopher (same as above), Biblical character who tried to exterminate Persian empire's Jews (does that fit in with the councilor's character?)

Captain Saurn - Saurn Kierkegard (founder of existencialism. Does the Matrix represent conformity?)

Merovingian - ?

Persephone - was taken by the Greek god Hades (In need of more details here)

Cain and Abel - Sons of Adam and Eve (first agents used)

Seraph - ?

Ghost - ?

Zion - In the Jewish scriptures Jerusalem is referred to as Zion, sometimes generally means the land of Israel, to which Jews have been dreaming to return for 2000 years.
The arrival and Independence is regarded in many religious circles to be the beginning of salvation.

freeyourmind

When the Nebbuchadnezzar ship

WARNING: M2 SPOILER - although you shouldn't be on this site if you haven't seen M2

was destroyed, Morpheus says:
I dreamed a dream, and now that dream has gone from me

The source for this line is the Book of Daniel, 2, 3-5 (translated from Hebrew and Aramaic):

"And the king (Nebuchadnezzar) said to them (the sorcerers and Kasdians), I dreamed a dream and my spirit is troubled to know the dream.
Then the Kasdians spoke to the king in Aramaic and said, O our king, live forever, say your dream to your servants and we will interpret its meaning for you.
the king answered the Kasdians and said, That dream has gone from me . If you will not make the dream and its interpretation known to me, you will be cut in pieces and your houses will be made dunghills."

He had a nasty temper, that guy.
By the way, Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream a creature made of Gold, silver, brass, iron and clay, and a stone came out of nowhere and smashed it to little pieces which flew away to where they will never be found again. And the stone became a giant mountain that filled the entire earth.
The meaning of it, interpreted by Daniel, was that every metal represented an empire, and that the stone represented the last everlasting empire of god that will rule over the entire earth and leave no memory of the past great kingdoms.
I don't know if this means anything. I just thought you'd find this interesting.

Neo_45422

Well if u were some high respectable hacker u wouldnt want to just be known as BOB would u??

freeyourmind

That's what I thought but apparantely all names have significant metaphorical meaning.

Paladin

Originally posted by freeyourmind
I tried to sum up here all of your opinions and all of the names.
Please point out to me if I missed anything.

Merovingian - ?
There are two possible interpretations of this name. One meaning is literal and historic: this term merely refers to an early European dynasty under which the Romans and the Gauls were first united, under an emperor or leader named Clovis, to create the Germanic race of peoples. The other meaning is mythological and mystical: this term refers to a supernatural race of red-haired quasi-angelic nigh-immortal kings whose gifts to humanity (including the mingling of the bloodlines) resulted in the origin of every mythical creature and creature mythos, from the Minotaur to the nephelheim.

My theory is that it is correct to take the mystical interpretation. Mainly because the historical interpretation yields nothing. What does the historical meaning give us? That the name refers to the medieval forefathers of the Germans? Being responsible for the Germans gets us nowhere, story-wise. If the writers had wanted to imply that The Merovingian's empire was evil (as in Nazi), or that he was responsible for creating the most evil empire in human history, they would have chosen a better name for that. Another clue that the historical approach doesn't apply is the fact that the name Clovis -- the true creator of the Merovingians -- does not appear anywhere in the films. And besides, the character is so obviously French that the purely historical interpretation cannot possibly apply; part of the reason he's so egregiously French may be to point attention away from the proto-German era of the same name. So we must therefore assume that the mythological interpretation of this name is correct.

If the mystical/mythological interpretation applies, then it must first be tested by taking it literally. The Merovingian kings of yore were responsible for the creation of every fantastical creature known to man. Considering that programs such as The Twins are in his service, there is no reason to suppose why this definition should not also apply to this character. He is a master program or meta-program, still a program AI himself but also capable of creating other program entities within the Matrix, and capable of endowing all of them with some sort of superhuman (paranormal) traits. This interpretation is confirmed in two places. One is in the scene involving the dessert cake. "I wrote it myself," The Merovingian boasts. The second is the conversation that Neo has with The Oracle in M2. She tells him that all instances of vampires, werewolves, ghosts, UFOs, etc. are all manifestations of programs within the Matrix. Aha, so supernatural creatures are really just programs...well, somebody still had to write them. I believe The Merovingian is their coder.

yanka

Originally posted by freeyourmind
And since when is pushing towards co-existence a shady attribute? I have a funny feeling this trilogy and war could end with co-existence and compromise.
I find it peculiar that Haman would be pushing for CO-existence when the sole goal of resistance in Zion is EXCLUSIVE existence. That's what the Zionites seem to strive for; it is not what you or I may find desirable, moral, likely, etc. Thus, Haman's active support of the prophecy is at least dubious. In that sense, if he is "pro-AI", he is "anti-Zionite".

Here is a link for you about Hamann http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/h/Hamann.htm

I don't know what you're talking about with Niobe and Leto. Is that from the game? Again, on the subconscious level, maybe she wanted to fight her rulers.
Leto is a Greek goddess. She "only" had 2 children (I think, Artemis and Apollo, but you can do a search on that as well). Niobe was a nobody (an unimportant human), but she bragged about having 16 (or something like that) children. Once Niobe bragged that she is better than Leto (those were times when large numbers of children were highly desirable; that remark was not only arrogant, but also extremely mean). Outraged, Leto (or was it Artemis?) killed all of Niobe's children. Niobe is not a fighter, she is not a rebel - she is just a spiteful, extremely fertile, self-important... lol... biatch... who should think before she opens her mouth. Do you now understand why I say that nobody in their right mind should want to name themselves after Niobe?

As far as hackers naming themselves - lol... look around this site... how many well-thought out, meaningful nicks do you see?

Seriously, though, why would Saurn name himself after Keirkegaard? He was a fan? I think it is more logical to suppose that the brothers wanted to throw around links to various schools of thought.

T A N K = K A N T

I think that the most crucial piece of information about Persephone is that she was forever stuck between this world and the underworld - she is both here and there, she is unhappy, she cannot escape.

Trinity (this was also posted somewhere here in May)
M1, when Neo first meets Trinity:
-----------------------------------------
Neo: Trinity. The Trinity? That cracked the IRS d-base?
Trinity: That was a long time ago.
Neo: Jesus.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I just thought, um...you were a guy.
Trinity: Most guys do.
------------------------------------------
Trinity responds to "Jesus"; most guys think God is a guy.

En route to meet the Oracle:
------------------------------------
Neo: God.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I used to eat there. Really good noodles.
-------------------------------------
Trinity again responds to "God".

I do wonder what "Bane" means.

yanka

Seraph is short for "seraphim".
Here is a very poorly-based, far-fetching theory of mine.

Why is there so much reference to Greek mythology, and no mention of Prometheus? I mean, if you want a myth with a battle of intelligent races, a prophecy, co-existence, sacrifice, promise of a better future, justice, human victory, etc. - then Prometheus' story should be at the top of the list.

As far as I understand, biblical seraphim are the bearers of God's truth, and "fire" or "burning" is often mentioned in connection to seraphim.
The M's Seraph is the protector of The Oracle. More to the point, he is the protector of the prophecy - because without the prophecy The Oracle herself is quite irrelevant. Seraph has a golden, firey glow around him.

Prometheus is the bearer and protector of fire; eventually (and not without considerable difficulty and sacrifice) he delivers the fire to humans. Fire --> light --> truth.

Seraph-Prometheus then would betray his own kind for the sake of humankind, deliver the truth (prophecy) to humans, and fight alongside humans to preserve it. If I am anywhere near correct, Seraph would have been severely punished by AI. Subsequently, he should be rescued by a noble and benevolent neither-program-nor-human.

Or else Seraph is just short for "seraphim".

freeyourmind

originally posted by yanka
I find it peculiar that Haman would be pushing for CO-existence when the sole goal of resistance in Zion is EXCLUSIVE existence. That's what the Zionites seem to strive for; it is not what you or I may find desirable, moral, likely, etc. Thus, Haman's active support of the prophecy is at least dubious. In that sense, if he is "pro-AI", he is "anti-Zionite".

Even if that's true, he doesn't want to exterminate the human population of Zion, does he?

"...This change in world-views coincided with his reading of the British empiricist philosophers George Berkeley and David Hume. Hamann saw the idealism of the former and the skepticism of the latter as constituting a reductio ad absurdum of Enlightenment thought: Scientific reason leads us inevitably either to doubt or to deny the reality of the world around us..."

This is from your link. It's not as exciting as we might have liked, but it seems a much more likely reason for the councilor's name.

Leto is a Greek goddess. She "only" had 2 children (I think, Artemis and Apollo, but you can do a search on that as well). Niobe was a nobody (an unimportant human), but she bragged about having 16 (or something like that) children. Once Niobe bragged that she is better than Leto (those were times when large numbers of children were highly desirable; that remark was not only arrogant, but also extremely mean). Outraged, Leto (or was it Artemis?) killed all of Niobe's children. Niobe is not a fighter, she is not a rebel - she is just a spiteful, extremely fertile, self-important... lol... biatch... who should think before she opens her mouth. Do you now understand why I say that nobody in their right mind should want to name themselves after Niobe?

I can't really answer this, as I don't know much about M2's Niobe's personality. I think she's supposed to be a good fighter - Link said something about that - but I probably need to play the game before I can tell you what I think.
By the way, you spelt ***** wrong twice. I'm not making fun of you. Just pointing out.

Seriously, though, why would Saurn name himself after Keirkegaard? He was a fan? I think it is more logical to suppose that the brothers wanted to throw around links to various schools of thought.

Wouldn't an existencialist be bothered by the fact that his life is meaningless and that he is in essence a coppertop?
I doubt the brothers just threw around names of random philospophers - they seem to be serious about these movies.

I think that the most crucial piece of information about Persephone is that she was forever stuck between this world and the underworld - she is both here and there, she is unhappy, she cannot escape.

Trinity (this was also posted somewhere here in May)
M1, when Neo first meets Trinity:
-----------------------------------------
Neo: Trinity. The Trinity? That cracked the IRS d-base?
Trinity: That was a long time ago.
Neo: Jesus.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I just thought, um...you were a guy.
Trinity: Most guys do.
------------------------------------------
Trinity responds to "Jesus"; most guys think God is a guy.

En route to meet the Oracle:
------------------------------------
Neo: God.
Trinity: What?
Neo: I used to eat there. Really good noodles.
-------------------------------------
Trinity again responds to "God".

If I remember correctly Persephone was kidnapped and kept in the underworld, not torn between the two worlds. This isn't based on anything, but I reckon Persephone is more powerful than she at first seems.
I know about the holy Trinity theory. I'm more interested in the one about Trinity being a Gnostic aeon. But nobody seems to be able to elaborate on that.

As for Seraph, I think that name appears somewhere in Judaism. I'll check it out.

freeyourmind

Seraphs are angels in ancient Hebrew. This might explain his golden encoding.

freeyourmind

Bane means the cause of someone's death (or so I'm lead to believe - I'm not sure of it's exact meaning and definition) - If George got ran over by a truck, the truck was George's Bane.
This theory was put forward by Fiatlux, by the way.

Strike Anywhere

Well, I had previously thought about the Tank/Kant relationship, and I can't believe it took me this long, but it has finally hit me.

If you're familiar with Kantian Ethics, you'd know that an ethical decision is not based on the result or the action, but the intentions in which that decision was made on.

For example, if I see a boy picking up a ball in front of a car, the car's about to hit him. I jump to push him out of harm's way and am successful, however, the boy's head slammed against the sidewalk and he died on impact. I killed a boy, but my intention was to save him. Therefore, though a Kantian form of thinking, it was an ethical decision.

Now for another example, let's say I'm a lawyer at a law firm. I see a bum in front of my office every single day, and I never pay attention to him. One day, the head partner takes me out to lunch and tells me he's thinking of promoting someone to his new project, a help the homeless kind of thing. I really want this job. When we return to the office, I through a 5$ bill into the bum's hat. Ethical thing to do, right? Wrong. My intention was to impress my boss to get this promotion, not to help this bum.

You are now familiar with Kantian ethics. Now, back to the Matrix.

At the end of the Matrix, after Trinity and Neo have escaped, Cypher is dead, and Morpheus is still captive in the military building, Tank wants to unplug Morpheus to protect Zion. He is going to KILL Morpheus. Murder. End his life. Whatever you want to call it. HOWEVER... He is doing it with the intention of saving 250 000 lives in the real world. A very Kantian way of thinking.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've found our first big real connection between a character having a philosopher's name, and their personality.

yanka

Yep. Categorical Imperative - Morpheus should have been unplugged. You get the thumbs up from me, Strike.

Strike Anywhere

Well I try :)

Seriously though, I can't remember much of Kiekegard's stuff, so I'm gonna go read Sophie's World's chapter on him and see any resemblence between what we know of Captain Saurn and the philosopher.

freeyourmind

originally posted by strike anywhere
If you're familiar with Kantian Ethics, you'd know that an ethical decision is not based on the result or the action, but the intentions in which that decision was made on.

You're talking about a scenario where the intentions was moral, but the result would be wrong. In this case, Tank's decision was both "well intended" and would have had the "positive" result of saving 250,000 lives. It wasn't the ideal solution, but it wasn't morally wrong.
There must be some other connection to Kant. Or maybe it's just a coincidence that Tank's name is Kant's anagram. Maybe he has nothing to do with that philosopher at all.

freeyourmind

Saurn Kierkergard was the father of existencialism.
I dont think an existencialist would be too thrilled to find that the he's been leading is meaningless.
I'm not sure about this, either, though. There were probably many another important characters in our history whose first names were Saurn.

Strike Anywhere

I must correct you, though. Kantian ethics are not concerned with the result of an action. Therefore, Tank's action to unplug Morpheus and save Zion was a totally ethical decision, from a Kantian point of view.

Only Egoism and Utilitarianism are really concerned with the results of an action.

iamatwin

binary is from etm, and its a type of code

freeyourmind

Strike Anywhere
I must correct you, though. Kantian ethics are not concerned with the result of an action. Therefore, Tank's action to unplug Morpheus and save Zion was a totally ethical decision, from a Kantian point of view.

I think you misunderstood me.
Kant says that when the intention was good, but the result was bad, the decision is ethical anyway.
In this situation, the decision was both well intended, and, if actualised, would have had a positive result - saving a quarter of a million people's life.

freeyourmind

Originally posted by iamatwin
binary is from etm, and its a type of code

Yeah, but what does that have to do with character names?

iamatwin

binary was a character from enter the matrix

Strike Anywhere

Oh, well, then I apoogize. I merely intended to say that Tank's decision making skills were based on Kantian Ethics.

freeyourmind

The Israelites started their lives as a race of slaves in Egypt. They always longed and prayed to be freed from their prison and to be taken to Zion - Israel, where they will be independent and able to properly protect themselves against their enemies.

Most of today's population of Israel is comprised of immigrants third-generationed or less.

Also, Morpheus's This-Is-Zion-And-We-Are-Not-Afraid speech reminded me a lot of Ariel Sharon's speeches to the Israeli people, during some of our most difficult times.
They weren't as dramatic as Morpheus's, though. Looked like he was gonna fall asleep any second.
I don't know if that proves anything, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. All the Israeli movie reviewers did.

johnstanp2

I thought that everyone in this forum knew the real meaning of all the names of the character of this movie.
It isn't hard to find their real meanings on internet(a so usefull tool).
Here I go:

Neo:
among all the things that have already been said in this forum about this name,it is also a medical appellation for "cancer".

Anderson:
Composed of "Ander"(root ander-andros:man) and "son".
So Neo is the "Son of the Man",that is the Christ.

And Anderson is also the name of the co-founder of the English Freemasonry in the eighteenth century and the writer of the "Constitutions",the famous "Anderson's Constitutions".
This is with "the Architect",an obvious reference to Freemasonry.

Also in the first movie in the Nebuchadnetzar,there's a plaque with the inscription MARK III,11(a reference of one the Synoptic Gospels):so look for a Bible.(I can't translate it properly)

Thomas: "Thomas' Gospel" :a Gospel of Gnostic Origin found in Egypt in 1945(one among many references to Gnosticism,remember there's a woman asking Neo to take care of her children(Jacob) in a ship called Gnosis when he's received like a Savior in Zion).

Also the name of one Jesus' disciple who doubted his resurrection and insisted to see Jesus with his eyes to believe it.
He's the one who doubts par excellence in the New Testament.

Morpheus: in Greek's Mythology,the name of the God of Sleep and Dreams.

Persephoné:daughter of the Godess Demeter and Zeus,who stopped fertilizing the Earth after being kidnapped by Hades, the God of Hell.(Greek Mythology)
she used to stay 6 months in the Hell(Autumn,Winter) and to come back on Spring,which released the natural cycle of harvesting.

Merovingian:(for knowing the history of France)
name coming from "Mérovée",a barbaric franc King,father of "Clovis",the first King of France.
His descendant are called "the Merovingians" and constitute the first Dynasty of France.
According to some "Specialists",Mérovée was a descendant of the Christ and the famous Nostradamus has prophesied the return of a "Merovingian Prince".

"Merovingian" is related to the origin of many occult sects,since the 11th century.(the period of the "Croisades" to deliver Jerusalem from Muslims)

Concerning the character of the movie,it is easy to see him as Hades(the God of Hell,in Greek Mythology) who takes Persephone in Prisoner,just like in the Greek Mythology.
And Trinity would have to go to the Club Hell(held by the Merovingian) to help Neo,according to rumours on Revolutions' story.

The Architect: the supreme entity venerated by the Freemasons.

Niobé:(Greek Mythology) she was the Queen of "Thèbes",who saw all her 7 sons and 7 daughters killed by "Apollon" and "Artémis",respectively son and daughter of the Godess "Léto".
Niobe,who had a life full of happiness and blessings ,was jealous of the cult made to Léto because as Niobé was thinking,Léto couldn't compare her happiness to hers and couldn't compare the beauty of her only two children to hers(Niobe) and thus didn't deserved the cult that she was given.
Léto offensed,sent Apollon to kill all Niobe's sons and Artémis,all Niobe's daughters and Niobe was changed in a stone.
this is the story,en résumé.

I will add more when I get more time(Hamann,Cypher,Malacchi,Apoc,...).

But all those names make reference to Greek and Egyptian(Osiris) Mythologies and to Gnosticism,Freemasonry,and Buddhism.

Strike Anywhere

I realize a lot of people have said Cypher may be his name because he can decypher the Matrix, including myself. However, haha, I laugh at this, because it's made painfully obvious that Cypher CAN'T decypher the Matrix in the original movie. "I don't know what to make of it. All I see is blonde, brunette, red head..." Bleh.

**** THE MODS...

johnstanp2

Well,before going.I've just seen that there's a little(?) discussion about Councilor Hamann.
HamaN(only one "N" in the Bible):he was the "Vizir" of the Persian King "Assuérus".
He resolved to exterminate the hebraic people.
But Esther(a jewess) foiled Haman's plan with the help of her cousin,Mardochée,on getting married with Assuérus.
She obtained the salvation of her people and had her cousin placed at Haman's place.

P.S:I kept all the French names 'cause I got no time to look for the corresponding translations in English.So,sorry

johnstanp2

Well,there are mistakes on my previous posts:
Mérovée was the GRAND-father of Clovis,Clovis being the first king of France and by the same time the first "christian" King of France and the first king of the Merovingian Dynasty.
I've forgotten the legend of his baptism(on a Christmas day at Reims,a French town, in 496) by the Archbishop Rémi:

the holy oil used for the baptism had been brought by a white dove which disapeared once the Archbishop recieved it.

This legend was used to show the divine origin of the Kingdom of France and the divine link between the Merovingians with God/Christ.

Now make your own conclusions...

Hitman

VERY interesting...and since Neo is a Christ-like figure........the Merovingian will probably have some sort of major effect on Neo...or maybe the other way around...nice research.

fiatlux

Originally posted by freeyourmind

Cypher: Decyphers the Matrix, Zero in Arabic, can hide his true intentions? (I might elaborate on this later. As soon as I figure out what I'm meaning)

According to the original Matrix website (the one that went up before Matrix Reloaded was released, I don't know if it can still be accessed or not), Cypher is short for Lucifer.

Apoc: ?

Apoc was a mis-spelling of epoch - an age of man.

Paladin

Originally posted by fiatlux
According to the original Matrix website (the one that went up before Matrix Reloaded was released, I don't know if it can still be accessed or not), Cypher is short for Lucifer.
Cypher = short for Lucifer. Okay...

I can see where the derivation of the name comes from, but is it not something of a stretch to say that Cypher's character truly represents the Antichrist? Dude just got tired of the ship and wanted back into the power plant, that's all. So he's gotta kill some Zionistas, so what. A brother gotta do what a brother gotta do cuz ain't nobody else looking out for number one, dig?

TheWindMinstrel

Morpheus was the Greek god of dreams, but he was only a sub-god ( a minor god ) and so, like many Greek gods, he was given two affinities, with deliverance, the showing of new things, being his second affinity. This adds to the relevance of his name methinks.

fiatlux

Originally posted by Paladin
Cypher = short for Lucifer. Okay...

I can see where the derivation of the name comes from, but is it not something of a stretch to say that Cypher's character truly represents the Antichrist? Dude just got tired of the ship and wanted back into the power plant, that's all. So he's gotta kill some Zionistas, so what. A brother gotta do what a brother gotta do cuz ain't nobody else looking out for number one, dig?

I agree. Who's calling Cypher the Antichrist?

The anti-Christ denies that Christ came in the flesh, which doesn't correspond well to anyone in the Matrix. The idea of the anti-Christ doesn't fit into Gnostic philosophy very well either, since the flesh is an illusion, like the rest of the physical world.

Oracle2.0

Cypher didn't really believe Neo was the one, so maybe that's the connection?

Paladin

Very possible, O2. That's a good one.

However, I think it's to draw attention to the Fall from heaven. If we accept that the world of Zion, hovercrafts, and perpetually darkened skies is somehow heaven (everyone is fighting to bring everyone else into it, even though it's all about suffering)...

...then Cypher = Lucifer makes sense, because he's the only one in all the movies that's rejecting heaven. Ergo and concordantly, a Fall for this character, vis-a-vis death by electrocution.

SullenGiRLaFa

-the priestess (person who the kids ask a question about the gathering)

Ajax:

Noun
Greek Mythology 1. The son of Telamon of Salamis and a warrior of great stature and prowess who fought against Troy. 2. The son of Ileus of Locris and a warrior of small stature and arrogant character who fought against Troy.
**************************************************************************

Kali:

Noun
Hinduism One of the manifestations and cult titles of the wife of Shiva and mother goddess Devi, especially in her malevolent role as a goddess of death and destruction, depicted as black, red-eyed, blood-stained, and wearing a necklace of skulls.
Etymology
Sanskrit K*l*, from k*l*, feminine of k*la-, dark, of Dravidian origin; akin to Kannada k**u, black, blackness.
****************************************************

Vector:

Noun
1. Mathematics a. A quantity, such as velocity, completely specified by a magnitude and a direction. b. A one-dimensional array. c. An element of a vector space. 2. Pathology An organism, such as a mosquito or tick, that carries disease-causing microorganisms from one host to another. 3. Genetics A bacteriophage, plasmid, or other agent that transfers genetic material from one cell to another. 4. A force or influence. 5. A course or direction, as of an airplane.
Transitive verb
Inflected forms: vec·tored, vec·tor·ing, vec·tors To guide (a pilot or aircraft, for example) by means of radio communication according to vectors.
Etymology
Latin, carrier, from vehere, vect-, to carry; see wegh- in Indo-European roots.
****************************************************

Priestess:

Noun
A woman who presides over religious rites, especially in pagan (One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion) religions.
****************************************************
hehe i was bored...i looked it up

freeyourmind

Fiatlux.
Who is Lucifer?
What happened on the age epoch?

WindMinstrel.
What do you mean by "the showing of new things"?
Revealing to mankind secret information, perhaps?

SullenGiRLaFa

Lucifer is the devil...I guess you dont read the bible much

fiatlux

Originally posted by freeyourmind
Fiatlux.
Who is Lucifer?
What happened on the age epoch?

The Latin word "Lucifer" actually means "bringer of light".
Is is hypothesized that he was the greatest of all the angels.
Since Jesus is often called, "Light of the World", part of the hypothesis runs that Lucifer was originally slated to announce the Incarnation of God. He supposedly refused it because he found the whole idea of God taking on flesh to be... well.. icky.

As a result, he fell and a third of the angels fell with him.

None of this is in Scripture - it's just a conglomeration of different speculations from about 2000 years of thought on the subject. NO guarantees that the details are right (i.e., we don't know for sure anything except that he fell).

In short, as has been pointed out, Lucifer is one of the devils.

SullenGiRLaFa

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by freeyourmind
Fiatlux.
Who is Lucifer?
What happened on the age epoch?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Latin word "Lucifer" actually means "bringer of light".
Is is hypothesized that he was the greatest of all the angels.
Since Jesus is often called, "Light of the World", part of the hypothesis runs that Lucifer was originally slated to announce the Incarnation of God. He supposedly refused it because he found the whole idea of God taking on flesh to be... well.. icky.

As a result, he fell and a third of the angels fell with him.

None of this is in Scripture - it's just a conglomeration of different speculations from about 2000 years of thought on the subject. NO guarantees that the details are right (i.e., we don't know for sure anything except that he fell).

In short, as has been pointed out, Lucifer is one of the devils.
____________________________________________________

Didnt want to be the reancarnated God? I'm sure it wasnt that i was taught differntly... that lucifer was near perfect untill he was jealous of God's powers and wanted more than God already gave him so God condemned him to his own world in Hell thought and 1/3 of the angels left w/ him.

freeyourmind

Originally posted by SullenGiRLaFa
Lucifer is the devil...I guess you dont read the bible much

Actually I read it quite a lot. Only in hebrew...
What about the age epoch? When was that? How long did it take? What interesting things happened then?

fiatlux

Originally posted by SullenGiRLaFa
quote:
Didnt want to be the reancarnated God? I'm sure it wasnt that i was taught differntly... that lucifer was near perfect untill he was jealous of God's powers and wanted more than God already gave him so God condemned him to his own world in Hell thought and 1/3 of the angels left w/ him.

I'm sorry, I may have been misunderstood.
I didn't mean to say that Lucifer was going to be God in the flesh, it was that he was supposed to announce God's intention to take flesh at the Annunciation (instead of Gabriel).

He turned down the opportunity, which meant he fell. In this rendition, the archangel Gabriel then becomes the stand-in.

The theory you put forward is another one some people favor.

Like I said, these are all theories, none of it is based in Scripture (I am not even sure the word "Lucifer" appears in Scripture, to be honest). It's pretty much the case that you take whatever theory you like and drive through.

fiatlux

Originally posted by freeyourmind
Actually I read it quite a lot. Only in hebrew...
What about the age epoch? When was that? How long did it take? What interesting things happened then?

The word "epoch" just means "age of man". It doesn't refer to a specific time in history.

Depending on who you read, there are three or six or seven or eight different epochs since the world began. It's just a way of divvying up recorded history. Sort of like saying "the atomic age", only if you wanted to use the word "epoch" you would say "the atomic epoch" instead. Like that.

SullenGiRLaFa

its okay misunderstanding happens alot

Paladin

Maybe Apoc is another spelling of epoch? They sound very similar.

Jebulum

well, how many names are mispelled in that movie ? perseplane ? niobea ? nebochyzanoer ? marphuyes ?

apoc and epoch are completely different if you check their respective ethymologies.but why not ?

SullenGiRLaFa

just because they sound similar doesnt mean they have the same meaning

psy

i know i read this tooooo late ... coz i was just wondering about Apoc... i donno if u found its meaning yet ... but do u think it's related to AIPAC ?!

icy toast

Originally posted by freeyourmind
Trinity is the holy trinity God-Jesus-Mary, yeah I know.
Cypher decyphers the Matrix.
Neo means New, I think, but it's also an anagram of one.
What do the names Morpheus, Switch, Apoc, Tank, and Dozer mean?
Are they supposed to mean anything?
Nebbuchadnezzar was a ruler of the Persian empire. He appears in the Jewish scriptures and gives the impression of a pretty naive and innocent person. He was being manipulated by his second-in-command in order to destroy the Jewish population of the Persian Empire (the Jews won in the end, by the way).
Could that have anything to do with the Matrix, or was that just a cool name for a hovercraft?

I read somewhere that all the names and characters had to do with Alice in Wonderland. Trinity is the Red Queen (I think thats the name, its in the Animatrix) and shes this because she influences Neo's decisions to reflect her and not the freed minds.