Matrix timeline/date

-- Don't use fake titles to get peoples attention --

[ edited by CraHan on 2003/07/22 ]


now that i have youre attention:

morpheus specifically stated that he doesnt noe, along with the rest of human kind, the actual date. now, assuming that what the architect said as the truth, there is no way that the date could be anywhere near, 2199, which is what morpheus stated as a estimate.

6 versions of the matrix.
the first: version: complete failure.
second: human's flaws added. but, still failure.
3rd, fourth, and fifth: same as neo's matrix.

PLUS, i dont understand when the architect says, "this is the sixth time we've destroyed it, and we've become efficeint at it." the first times, i thought the humans simply died when they woke up from the matrix. cause if zion consisted of EVERYoNe in the matrix, that would mean they destroyed the whole human race. because in the first matrix, almost everyone woke up. zion = entire matrix in first version ? that there dont make sense.

now, lets just throw out the time from 2000 (as it is now, except real) until the second matrix falied. still, it had to be a considerable amount of time nevertheless. from the creation of advanced AI. . . the war. . .fall of humanity. . .lst matrix. . .second matrix. forget about any things about the size of zion or rejection rate of the first two matrix's.

after all this, lets take into acount the time period here. zion takes time to become lethal to the machines. 100 years each, lets say. no use in destroying zion after 10 years. waste of time due to lack of threat, and ppl. after 100 years, a well populated zion is created; at a 1% rejection rate.

100 for 3rd version, 100 for 4th, 100 for 5th, and now 100 for sixth. 400 years, AFTER the fall of humanity and the 1st and 2cnd matrix's.

**** any time before the creation of the 3rd matrix. soo, lets just say that the year is 2400 (although it is much more, most likely). they tourched the sky sometime between 2000-2100. lets say. why are the skys still black? 300+ is plenty of time for the skys to clear. nucular winter, from a asteroid or nukes wouldnt take half that amount of time to clear. and secondly, there is a plaque in the neb saying: created in 2069. NOW THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. that ship is not 400+ years old. it cannot be. because i would think it would be impossible for that ship to survive the previous attacks against zion. and, it simply cant last that long.

now, this timeframe would have to be true, accepting the architect's speech as truth. so. . . because there has been no battles on the surface of earth, or any kind of pollition, there is no reason for the skys to still be scortched. after 300-600 years? no way. unless the machines are keeping it that way, life would go on. i mean, earth got hit with an asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs (killing almost everything on earth and causing the the skys to go black) and life didnt just cease. the sky cleared, the earth started over. and it is no different, because zion is real. supposedly.

ad the plaque in the neb makes no sense as well. cmon now. all of the matrix's and the war between 2000 and 2069? impossible. either the arch. was lying or there's something else we dont noe about. . . . . . .. . . .. . hmmmmm. i wonder what it could be. . . . . .. .......................................................

the year has to be around 2500-2600 after reloaded. estimating. now, with that in mind, answer my questions. AND, after all this time, how are the humans still able to keep zion so advaced and sophisticated. there is nothing left after each version. zion is destroyed. completely. how are these 24 humans, after the reload, able to create such a sophisticated city from practically nothing? where's ther supplies for the ships, houses, streets, weapons? you tell me that.

i hope you've read everything.

wow, i seriously cant answer why they can do it but they just do....thats like saying why does neo fly....because he can

i noe one theory that could answer all my questions .. . .
can anyone guess what it is?

hint: IMI, IAMI.

any other theories that have an answer to this ? anyone ?

wow whoever cant figure out that hint must be phsyco

you absolutely cannot predict that a cycle of the matrix equals 100 years because the last one appeared to have lasted 100 years, there are assumptions.

whatever the year it is, a part of zion is defintively left untouched, or rebuild for the new survivors.or it is a plothole, which i doubt. :)

are you saying there is like a secret spot in zion where the 24people meet, and live, and rebuild?

well, if Zion is completely destructed, such will be the machines that creates the air, and in that case the 24 peeps would not survive much longuer than a few minutes.
the machine probably do not destroy the core and simply kill the habitants, or rebuild another a new Zion for the 24 survivors, with details on their history, etc...

how could someone (morpheus) knows about and when the war between Machines occurs if not ?

what did you mean by that last sentence

in M1, morpheus explains that humans do not live in 1999, but in 2199, then give details about the war that happened between humans and AI, and about the freedom fighters.

he shouldn't know all that if it was the 6th version of the matrix and if all archives were destructed every cycle.

oh, that does make some sence

okay, he beleives that the origional one, is the very first one and released the first ppl in the matrix. this isnt true, he is just simply the 5th one, restarting the matrix into the 6th version; neo's version. that one, knowing that there would be another one(neo), prophecized about the return of the one. he told them the truth, about how the machines had enslaved the humans. and a war was born again. the previous one gave the humans the necessary information about what was happening, but never told them everything, previous matrix's, pervious zions, etc. why he didnt i dont noe. tank, link, and anyone without pluggs, would have to be direct desendends of the origional 24, that the 5th one picked out.

and, i threw out a lot of time in my timeframe. the time from 2000, after the creation of AI, the war, the fall of humanity, the creation and fall of the 1st and 2nd matrix's, is quite a bit.

and a lot more time has passed since 2069, which is what a plaque reads in morhpeus' ship stating when the neb was created. cmon now. the year is between 2500-2600. given the rejection rate of only the 3-5 matrix's and the size of zion. why would they destroy zion when there's a small population of ppl? they'd wait for it to grow to a thread b4 they used energy to destroy it. 100 years, the amount of time that morpheus' states, is a reasonable amount of time. at a 1% rejection rate, 100 = approx. 250,000 zionites. take into account that the pop. of the matrix grows as time goes on also.

now, no one noes about the previous matrix except neo. and the neb could not have been built in 2069. its impossible. the date is no where near 2069, and the ship would have been destroyed in the previous fallings of zion. its illusion created by the machines to elude ppl from the evidence of precious matrix's. cause i dont believe morpheus built the neb himself. how could he? it was there for him. 2069 is an illusion.

"You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated."

ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE ERADICATED. i think that means that zion is going to be completely wiped out. eveything destroyed. nothing left. soo, how is it that they are able to rebuild zion from nothing? unless the machines GIVE them back there things and rebuild their machines that give them water, air, and heat, life cannot go on in zion. if the machines are going to rebuild it for them, which i highly doubt, it would be completely pointless for them. they need zion to release the 1% of rejecting humans. and nothing makes sense in this except for mim. its easy, zion is simply reloaded, they can live there again. after its been destroyed. my bad for mentioning mim, i noe some of you are really hostile about it. damn.

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z
okay, he beleives that the origional one, is the very first one and released the first ppl in the matrix. this isnt true, he is just simply the 5th one, restarting the matrix into the 6th version; neo's version. that one, knowing that there would be another one(neo), prophecized about the return of the one. he told them the truth, about how the machines had enslaved the humans. and a war was born again. the previous one gave the humans the necessary information about what was happening, but never told them everything, previous matrix's, pervious zions, etc. why he didnt i dont noe. tank, link, and anyone without pluggs, would have to be direct desendends of the origional 24, that the 5th one picked out.



that doesn't make a lot of sense.why saying some infos and keep the ohers ? why not warning the new generation about waht will happen again ?
the one never comes back, the matrix is reloaded and he re enter the source.


and, i threw out a lot of time in my timeframe. the time from 2000, after the creation of AI, the war, the fall of humanity, the creation and fall of the 1st and 2nd matrix's, is quite a bit.

[/B]

proof? i mean, quote from the movie ?




and a lot more time has passed since 2069, which is what a plaque reads in morhpeus' ship stating when the neb was created. cmon now. the year is between 2500-2600. given the rejection rate of only the 3-5 matrix's and the size of zion. why would they destroy zion when there's a small population of ppl? they'd wait for it to grow to a thread b4 they used energy to destroy it. 100 years, the amount of time that morpheus' states, is a reasonable amount of time. at a 1% rejection rate, 100 = approx. 250,000 zionites. take into account that the pop. of the matrix grows as time goes on also.

[/B]

you are assuming the anomaly occrued everytime at that state of population and time.

Matrix 1 and 2 have been showed to be a lot shorter that the others, why the rest would follow the same timeline when the architect annouce that time doesn't matter to him ?



now, no one noes about the previous matrix except neo. and the neb could not have been built in 2069. its impossible. the date is no where near 2069, and the ship would have been destroyed in the previous fallings of zion. its illusion created by the machines to elude ppl from the evidence of precious matrix's. cause i dont believe morpheus built the neb himself. how could he? it was there for him. 2069 is an illusion.

"You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated."

ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE ERADICATED.

[/B]

AND ??


i think that means that zion is going to be completely wiped out. eveything destroyed. nothing left. soo, how is it that they are able to rebuild zion from nothing? unless the machines GIVE them back there things and rebuild their machines that give them water, air, and heat, life cannot go on in zion. if the machines are going to rebuild it for them, which i highly doubt, it would be completely pointless for them. they need zion to release the 1% of rejecting humans. and nothing makes sense in this except for mim. its easy, zion is simply reloaded, they can live there again. after its been destroyed. my bad for mentioning mim, i noe some of you are really hostile about it. damn. [/B]

it's not pointless, they need humans to free others from the matrix.it's logical to offer them help so they can do so.

you seems convinced about the MIM, but it's all wind that can be contradicted by any other explanation until revolutions.And will be sowed wrong by revolutions.i take the bets.


BTW, how come a population can grow from 24 to 250 000 peeps within in 100 years ? with 10 Ships ? do you see that often ? that 4 generations !

i dont see how any explainations of my writtings that you just did make any sense.

okay, the one from the previous matrix definently comes to zion after the reload. how is anyone going to know anything? they're just gonna be in zion, happy, not knowing whats going on. of course the one returns to zion after the reload. he provides the information. how else would anyone know whats going on? he chooses 23 ppl. 16 female, 7 male. 16:8 banging ratio with the one. they start freeing minds immediatly after they are chosen. they have to take care of the 1% of rejected humans. ONLY THE PPL WITHOUT PLUGS ARE FROM THE ORIGIONAL 24. THERE ARE VERY FREW, AS YOU SEE. THE ONES WITH PLUGGS HAVE BEEN FREED BY THE PREVIOUS 24.

of course there's gonna be a considerable amount of time between those two points. i was simply stating that. I ALREADY THREW OUT THAT TIME, BECAUSE I SAID I DIDNT HAVE PROOF. EVEN WITH OUT THAT TIME, IT HAS TO BE AROUND 2400. AND THATS WITH PROOF. 2400 WITHOUT THE TIME FROM 2000 UNTIL THE END OF THE SECOND MATRIX. okay. damn. read everything plz. plz plz plz plz plz !

and are you saying that the time is close to 2069, which is on a plaque in the neb? if you are you're crazy. taking into consideration the time for zion to grow in the previous matrix's, 100 years each, at a .1% rejection rate. the 3rd version of the matrix was the same as neo's version. read up on the arch's speech. 100 years for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th matrix's. 400 years alone. 2400, w/o the time between 2000 and teh second matrix's fall. thats throwing out the creation of AI, the war, the fall of humanity, creation of the 1st matrix, creation of the second matrix. throwing out all the time that, "i dont have enough proof for", the date is still around 2400. the neb could not have been built in 2069. it is impossible. it would have been destroyed in previous falls of zion, and it isnt 300+ years old. answer me how the neb could have been built in 2069. its impossible. the matrix is older than you noe.

omg, you piss me off. zion is completely eradicated after each cycle. EVERYTHING IS GONE. how can the 24 new ppl rebuild it by themselves? they dont have the supplies to create all thse ships, streets, homes, etc. that we saw in zion. its impossible. mim.

you are absolutely not reading my posts, so i don't think i can bother replying.

i've never stated that the year was 2069, i said it is not possible to state any date with the info given,

gimme fact. a good text explanation, and i'll consider your theory.

there's a plaque, in m1, in the neb that say "built in 2069". which is impossible. i swear to you that there is a plaque that reads as above. with the given info ive provided, that is impossible.

and how does that proove it is beetween 2400 and 2700 ? or that is a MIM ?

this can be simply left out by the machines so people in zion believe it is the first cycle.

okay, throw out the time between 2000-end of second matrix.

now the 3-6 matrix are the same. like neo's matrix. each with a .1% rejection rate. in order for zion to reach a population of 250,000, 100 years for each. cause, why would the machines bother destroying it after. . .10 years lets say. there's barely any ppl there. the matrix doesnt need to be reloaded. the one hasnt returned yet. so, 100 years per matrix except for 1 and 2. so its at least 2400. the neb would have been destroyed in previous falls of zion, so it being created in 2069 can not be true. an illusion by the machines to elude ppl from the evidence of previous matrix's. cause morpheus didnt build the neb himself. how could he? how could anyone? they dont have that kind of technology after everything's been destroyed.

so 400 years for 3-6. 2400 right there. without the first 2 matrix's and the war.

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z
[okay, throw out the time between 2000-end of second matrix.




ok


now the 3-6 matrix are the same. like neo's matrix. each with a .1% rejection rate. in order for zion to reach a population of 250,000, 100 years for each. cause, why would the machines bother destroying it after. . .10 years lets say. there's barely any ppl there. the matrix doesnt need to be reloaded


that is assuming that the matrix needs to be reloaded when there is too many people out, and this is based on your interpretation of the movie, or that the anomaly occurs everytime at the same state of the cycle.assuming free will, time might vary to reach the population of 250 000. the olders ones were not as good as neo. Smith was not unplugged. trinity wasn't there, and possibly not thomas anderson, at least not as his actual self.

over 100, that's saving 6.8 persons a day.over 13 ships.how long did neo stayed in the ship to recover muscles after having being saved ? they would need about 100 beds if they had to save a person every 2 days per ship.you can reduce that to 60% if you consider people that are born in Zion. you can asume a mother will have between 2 and 4 children, over 4 generations. that still does not cope with the numbers to me.



. the one hasnt returned yet. so, 100 years per matrix except for 1 and 2. so its at least 2400. the neb would have been destroyed in previous falls of zion, so it being created in 2069 can not be true. an illusion by the machines to elude ppl from the evidence of previous matrix's. cause morpheus didnt build the neb himself. how could he? how could anyone? they dont have that kind of technology after everything's been destroyed.

so 400 years for 3-6. 2400 right there. without the first 2 matrix's and the war.

er, yes, that's all i have said and repeated in the thread, same goes with the machines that creates air.

i put the rejection rate as 1% in some of my first posts when it is actually .1%. 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program. so thats the flaw in the numbers. sorry for that.

the plaque in the neb is as follows:
-------------------------------

NEBECANEZAR

made in the u.s.a
built 2069.

--------------------------------

agree with me that it is impossible for the neb have been built then. it is way past 2069, lets agree at that. it cant survive the fall of previous zions. my take on this is that it is an illusion created by the machines to hide the evidence of previous zions, and previous matrix's. it also makes sense if MIM is put into this situation.

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z

agree with me that it is impossible for the neb have been built then. it is way past 2069, lets agree at that.

Yes


it cant survive the fall of previous zions.

Sure


my take on this is that it is an illusion created by the machines to hide the evidence of previous zions, and previous matrix's.

i agree


it also makes sense if MIM is put into this situation.

i don't :D.
Zion IS a physical world. ok, the matrix is as real as another world as your brain receive same informations that could be retrieved by the body in a 'real' world. let's not enter that discusion.Both world are controlled by the machines, one is physical, the other not.

It is an assumption to think that there were only 8 versions of the Matrix. (Six iterations of The One + the first 2 failures.) The Architect tells us that he "prefer[s] to count from the emergence of one integral anomaly to emergence of the next, in which case, this is the 6th version."

That means HE IS NOT COUNTING MATRICIES THAT FAILED BY ANY OTHER MEANS, WITHOUT THE ONE HAVING TO EMERGE.

The Architect seems like a conceited enough lil' biatch (nod of the head to Terikan) that he would intentionally ignore all versions of the Matrix that did not end as he calculated they would.

o rii o rii. so its even later than i stated is what your saying. i was only making a general estimate of the time. i threw out the first two because i didnt have any idea of how much time was put into them. i really wanted to just make the statment that it

and about throwing mim into this situation. lets just say its a possibility. it does fit, and by fitting i mean it makes sense. just like zion being a physical, but controled, city. they're both only possibilities now because we really dont noe for sure. lets not rule out mim tho, because in this situation it does make sense. lets leave the mim issue at that.

Actually i thought the MIM idea was correct, but 2 points completely changed my mind:

1/Matrix 1 would become pointless, such as the complete trilogy .what's the point of showing someone awaking in another matrix ?

2/i saw the animatrix.Once again, that DVD becomes untruthful and so pointless in regard of the MIM.especially the second Renaissance 1 & 2.

can't say it ain't gonna happen at 100 % sure. but what i'm 100% sure is that it would be an easy way to terminate the trilogy, and Watchos don't like easy things, or they would have removed all references to philo and religion in the movie and made a full action movie a la T3. :0

Originally posted by Paladin
It is an assumption to think that there were only 8 versions of the Matrix. (Six iterations of The One + the first 2 failures.) The Architect tells us that he "prefer[s] to count from the emergence of one integral anomaly to emergence of the next, in which case, this is the 6th version."

That means HE IS NOT COUNTING MATRICIES THAT FAILED BY ANY OTHER MEANS, WITHOUT THE ONE HAVING TO EMERGE.

The Architect seems like a conceited enough lil' biatch (nod of the head to Terikan) that he would intentionally ignore all versions of the Matrix that did not end as he calculated they would.

good extra point :D

Thanks Jebulum. I agree that MIM is toast.
Originally posted by Jebulum
can't say it ain't gonna happen at 100 % sure. but what i'm 100% sure is that it would be an easy way to terminate the trilogy, and Watchos don't like easy things, or they would have removed all references to philo and religion in the movie and made a full action movie a la T3. :0
LOL!!!!! Now wouldn't that make some great fan fiction!

(Neo opens the door to the prison. The Keymaker looks up.)
Neo: Come with me if you want to live.

ppl say that MIM will make it pointless, but m2 made m1 pointless. think about it. the whole movie was about neo becoming the one. now, the one is nothing special. m2 made m1 pointless, in a lot of ways.