The Predecessor to Neo

Has anyone noticed there are no old people in Zion, EXCEPT the members of the council. If everything the Architect says is true, the former one needed to take 16 females and 7 males to rebuild Zion. The One's purpose was then to rebuild Zion and to stay in Zion. This leads me to believe that the Councilor that spoke to Neo about the interdependency between man and machines is the most former One. Also, if you notice at the council table, when Zion is discussing the military strategy, the majority of the council members are females. This suggests they are the 16 females (or the remainder of the 16).

This means that neither the Merovingian nor Seraph are the former One.

Ok take into account that the former one entered the source about 100 years ago. And the 23 people he took out would have to be no younger than 20. That would make them 120 years old, i highly doubt that.

My guess is they use it as a symbol of the first to escape the matrix.

I believe that 100 years is the time that passed since the last "Neo" re-built Zion.

Because the first Neo of them all, must have happened thausands of years earlier. The arquitect says that they are so many...

I think that there is a high possibility that Councilor is the last "Neo", not the first.

Ok neos like what 30 ish give or take 5 years

Do you really believe the councilor could be 130 years old?

I'll have to ask him...

:D

You are all assuming that Morpheous was correct when he said they had been battling the machines for 100 years. Obviously, somone told Morpheous about the prophecy. However, if the predecessor to Neo chose the door on the left, he would not tell those that have been unplugged that he made a choice that previously destroyed Zion. Instead, it is more likely that the predecessor would proclaim that the Matrix was created with a human that had the ability to change the Matrix as he/she saw fit and that those that have been unplugged have been battling the machines for 100 years. Moreover, if there is a predecessor to Neo and that predecessor is human, I believe it would be the Councilor. I would guess that the Councilor is in his mid to late 60s and Neo is in his early to mid 30s. This would also make this theory consistent with some of the Christianity parallels (Jesus 33 when crucified).

First, remember that the Councilor said he had slept the first 11 years of his life. So he was 11 years old when he was freed, not 20.

Also, who says you LOOK 100 years old if you live underground away from UV waves ?

I've got to give the idea of the Councilor being the last Neo some more thought.

Yes, maybe that snot that they eat is the secret to youth :)

The age at which the former Anomoly was unplugged does not seem important to me. Also, I don't think the humans have been battling the machines in Zion for 100 years as Morpheous believes. I believe that Morpheous has been provided with false information. Basically, if anyone is the former Anomoly, it is probably the Councilor (who I believe is mid to late 60s). After all, the former Anomoly would have helped rebuild Zion and would not have been able to permanently replug.

Anyone backing me up on that "snot is source to eternal youth" theory?

1. its the snot everyone outside of matrix eat. like a white porridge. (but the i wonder, if there's no food left outside the matrix, where did those fruit which people sent to neo's cabin in zion. if niobe wants to eat something that requires teeth, she can ask for it from neo)
2. every door leads to zion's destruction. right, it'll be rebuild. left, it wont.--see the architects line, please....i mean, PLEASE
3. i agree the councillors are the 23 inhabitants chosen by the previous the one who is look younger than they should becouse of non-uv environment (or becouse of the snot). that's why they so concern to the fate of the one.

I would like to clarify a few points after reading posts within this thread and outside of this thread.

First, many have wondered if the wild-eyed "homeless guy" that utters "72 hours" in ETM is a former one, or whether the Merovingian is a former one. It wouldn't make sense if they were. Remember, the former Ones chose to reboot the Matrix and to rebuild Zion. Therefore, the former Ones would be unplugged from "Reality" and in Zion. If a former One chose to re-enter "Reality," the former One would need to re-enter just as everyone else did in M1 and M2. This means the re-entry would be temporary, and not long term, because the Sentinels would be trying to hunt down those entering "Reality." Moreover, even if a good hiding place was found where the Sentinels could not reach the former One, there would be the concern of sustaining one's life (one would need to eat - as he/she is no longer being fed intravenously by the machines). The Homeless guy and the Merovingian cannot be the former One because they are permanently in "Reality." I think the Homeless guy, being an exiled program that has witnessed the destruction of Zion in the past and who knows how long it will take, is indifferent (unlike all the other programs we have seen thus far who are vested in the outcome), and this is why he volunteers the information of 72 hours.

I know I got a little off track, but another way to put it is - if you don't see them in Zion, they're not a former one. Who does this leave us with? The only old people in Zion - the council members. Therefore, I believe that the Councilor that speaks to Neo in the machine room is the immediate predecessor to Neo and that the other council members are the 23 others that helped to rebuild Zion. I feel this might be substantiated by the Councilors omission that he has no answers - after all, if he was the former One, as I presume, he knows he doesn't have the answers, as he was unable to figure out how to defeat the machines.

The question that then arises is - yeah, but wouldn't he be too old to be the immediate predecessor of Neo? Wouldn't that make the Councilor about 125 years old? No. The Councilor says he was unplugged when he was 11. I believe that - no reason not to. On the other hand, Morpheous says Zion has been battling the machines for one hundred years. If what I am saying is true, and you assume the Councilor was about Neo's age when the Matrix was rebooted, and you assume that Morpheous' knowledge is true, then that would make the Councilor about 125 years. Considering the Councilor's looks and physical condition, this would be impossible.

However, I do not believe that Morpheous has been provided with adequate information. I believe Morpheous has been supplied with a fiction that was passed down to him by the members of the Council. After all, if you were the former One, would you say that X number years ago, I chose to destroy Zion and rebuild it, rather than destroy the human race completely? No. It is more likely that you would create a fiction as to how long Zion has battled the machines and that the conflict has not yet come to climax (even though the climax had already taken place). As the former One, you would ponder what you could have done, hope that you figure it out by the time it becomes relevant again and/or hope that someone else figures it out. I believe the Councilor has given up hope in himself in finding the answer and is hoping that Neo, his successor, will find the answer.

You may not believe that the Councilor is the immediate predecessor to Neo, and I would understand that if it is based upon age. But, if it is not Councilor, it cannot be anyone else. Otherwise, you would see this individual in Zion.

I still think it's the snot.

No it'snot.

That just dosn't mack sence to me.

Let me start this other theory with a quote from the movie (script downloadable from the fan fiction section):

"Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.
TVNeo's: 5 `One's before me? 4 3 2 What are you talking about?
Neo: There are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations."

There are only two possible explanations, either no one told me or no one knows.
Nobody knows that there were former Matrices, former Zions and former TheOnes. Nobody in Zion is aware of the fact that they are living in a loop, they believe that there version of Zion is the first, the one and only version. Morpheus especially, it is obvious that he believes that hundred years ago the machines won the war and mankind was enslaved in TheMatrix - while it in reality was more than 600 years.

Morpheus makes an interesting comment in the first movie about this topic:
"When The Matrix was first build, there was man born inside, who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake The Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, thought us the truth: as long as The Matrix exists, the human race will never be free."
He's talking about the former One, who he believes is the first One - in reality the 5th One - who was the first who freed himself and others and started the resistance.
The Oracle that time was already running, created to guide TheOne over his path to TheSource and the reloading of Zion. She tells Morpheus that another One will rise - ofcourse it will, it is inherent to the programming of TheMatrix - and that he will end the war, she says this to Morpheus to give him and the people of Zion hope and a purpose.

Morpheus tells Neo about his visit with the Oracle in the first movie:
"After he died, The Oracle prophesized his return. That his coming would hail with the destruction of The Matrix, end the war, bring freedom to our people. That is way there are those of us, who have spend their entire life searching The Matrix looking for him. I did it what I did, because I believe that search is over."

AFTER HE DIED, The Oracle prophesized his return....
so the former One is dead and few of the first 24 have survived that long: the Council including Councillor Hamann are the survivors of the first 24 (the entire council are not more than 10-15 persons). The former One has died together with a few councilmen, the survivors form the present council.
The council is very worried about the fate of TheOne, they send two ships, because they know how important Neo is.

Some of you believe that Hamann is the former One, some of you do not. Age, food, fitness I don't know how he or others of the council survived these hundred years, possibly improved healthcare or something, no more cancer or angina pectoris or whatsoever I don't know.

Ergo I have a quote from the movie in which is clearly shown that Hamann is not the former One:
"Neo: Why don't you tell me what's on your mind, Councillor?
Councillor Hamann: There is so much in this world that I do not understand. See that machine? It has something to do with recycling our water supply. I have absolutely no idea how it works. But I do understand the reason for it to work. I have absolutely no idea how you are able to do some of the things you do, but I believe there's a reason for that as well. I only hope we understand that reason before it's too late."

I have absoluty no idea how you are able to do some of the things you do, but I believe there's a reason for that...
If Hamann is the former One, he knows why Neo has these superpowers and knows the reason and the cause for it. apparently he does not and therefore he is not the former One.

The former One has died and now it is all up to Neo.

Originally posted by TheRealOne
The One's purpose was then to rebuild Zion and to stay in Zion.

Is that so?
The architect said:
......After which, you will be required to select from the Matrix 23 individuals - 16 female, 7 male - to rebuild Zion....[/B]

He never says that the one will be allowed to join them to rebuild Zion....

Does this mean you believe that 23 individuals will rebuild Zion, but that Neo will be replugged into the Matrix? That does not make any sense. The 24 individuals, including Neo, will rebuild Zion (supposedly).

Originally posted by TheRealOne
Does this mean you believe that 23 individuals will rebuild Zion, but that Neo will be replugged into the Matrix? That does not make any sense. The 24 individuals, including Neo, will rebuild Zion (supposedly).

I think this is what happened with Neo's predecessors:

The (last) One meets The Architect. When he goes into the door he is supposed to go into, it changes his consciousness, and thus seperates his mind and body. His body falls into a coma, like Neo did, and his mind goes back into The Matrix. With no body to be jacked into at that time, they are unable to keep a lock on where he is. I think the last predecessor (and all the others) bodies were unconscious at the beginning of each 'version' of zion. I don't agree with versions of The Matrix, because i don't believe there have been more versions since this last one began. I read this somewhere on this site, and it made a lot of sense, what i'm about to say. If they actually reloaded The Matrix, it would have to cause a great deal of shock to those people unplugged. I imagine millions would be lost in the reboot process.

my problem with figuring out who the previous "ones" are is the archtects scene. I thought the tvs showed what the previous ones had said. is this true? because this would mean they all look exactly the same. or do the tv's show the possiblities of what he could say? what do you think?

Originally posted by realitysadream
my problem with figuring out who the previous "ones" are is the archtects scene. I thought the tvs showed what the previous ones had said. is this true? because this would mean they all look exactly the same. or do the tv's show the possiblities of what he could say? what do you think?

The screens cannot be Neo's predecessors, because they did not all look the same. Different people were batteries at that time, and they had different residual self images. Neo wasn't alive at the time. I think it's absurd to say they were all the same ones. Even IF the matrix has ever been rebooted, that has nothing to do with the humans who are hooked up to it in the real world.

Also, if his predecessors looked the same as him, wouldn't someone in Zion have noticed this? If these councillors have been there since the beginning, wouldn't they notice that it's the exact same person? It would also be a hell of a lot easier for the machines to find the one if it was the exact same person.

Originally posted by TheRealOne
Does this mean you believe that 23 individuals will rebuild Zion, but that Neo will be replugged into the Matrix?


No it doesn't.
He might just be killed.......
Otherwise they would give the 23 a big jump start, wouldn't they?
If they let the one join them.....

If we think of Neo as what he is...he's just a bug. That keeps repeating himself.

So, I see no reason for a bug to have a diferent face. A bug is always the same bug. I think that those poictures are really Neo's predecessors.

And you know why? Because when neo discovers that there had been others like him, the arq responds that he was faster than the others to get to that conclusion. Then after a few seconds we see in the TV's the reactions from the others. SHOWING that Neo indeed had been faster....


.....it'a 5:30 AM...I had more to say....but I'm exausted....sorry....tomorow is a diferent day :)

I don't believe anything is ever said about him having to stay in zion after chosing the people.

If Neo is human, and Zion was to be rebuilt, then Neo would remain in Zion (if he wanted to live), unless he allowed himself to be replugged into the Matrix.

Originally posted by Merovech
No it doesn't.
He might just be killed.......
Otherwise they would give the 23 a big jump start, wouldn't they?
If they let the one join them.....

The Reloading of TheMatrix is a not a reboot like a computer, The Matrix is build on choice, but 1% cannot accept the program and got expelled, one of these 1% is TheOne, with extraordinary powers. He represents the biggest flaw in the system, the next version of TheMatrix deals with this supreme Anomaly by changing the Matrixcode. The bugs in the codes of the Anomalies and TheOne are dealt with so that 99% of them excepts the next version of the Matrix.
Ergo in the next Matrix 99.99% of all the people accepts the program, The Matrix is just changed so that Anomalies wouldn't occur any longer, but Anomalies are a process of change so there always will be a small group of rebels. In the next version of the Matrix the acceptence-ratio comes closer to 100% but will never reach it.

In this sixth version there is a very small group of Rebels, but when the system fails this group increases very much: more people freed in the last 6 months then in the last 6 years.
When Neo reloads TheMatrix the bug in his program is dealt with, so that when he decides to enter TheMatrix he no longer has these special powers, even stronger if you plug him into TheMatrix he would accept the program and doesn't form an Anomaly.

Please reaction on the theory that the former One is dead....

the Councelor also said to Neo "I don't know how you do some things you do ..." It's not a line for a former one, unless the former ones were too way behind

I just want to point out that neo can do things that the former ones couldn't! So maybe the things that the councilor dont' know how neo does them are only the new stuff.
Because he indeed says "SOME THINGS"

just saying what crosses my mind.....keep on discussing

I'm pretty sure the theory is way off.

Apparently, the machines have done this six times, and it's all gone according to plan (with Neo) this far. I'm pretty sure Neo didn't ever stay in Zion. If he followed one order, I'm sure he followed the other - otherwise, things wouldn't have repeated themselves so many times.

Can we all agree that the former One would have been Zion, whether or not the former One is dead or alive? In other words, can we agree that the Merovingian, Seraph, etc., are not former Ones?