A new theory - The importance of Popper

My theory seeks to determine what will happen, as opposed to what has happened.

To begin, I must proclaim that I have faith in the MIAM theory. But first, I must state that I do not believe in Zion as the real world for a couple of reasons. During Neo's confrontation with the Sentinels, he said something along the lines of "something is different, I can feel them." At this point, Neo zapped the sentinels with an EMP like bolt. It seemed as if Neo's feeling was familiar. It was familiar to a feeling he experienced in what is definitely known as the Matrix. Thus, he had the revelation that Zion was an extension of the Matrix and he knew he could manipulate what happened. As such, he defied the laws of nature as we know them and stopped the sentinels (something that only may happen in the Matrix).

Moreover, the theory that Neo can electrocute the sentinels through some sort of wireless connection seems implausible. Doing this would take more than a programmed connection to the sentinels, it would take some sort of "hardware" that has the capabilities of shooting an EMP. However, I do not believe that Neo is RoboCop or that Neo has been equipped with such hardware.

Therefore, Neo has realized he can bend the rules in Zion and did so just like he did elsewhere.

The logical questions that follow are - So what? If Neo is in another layer of the matrix, how can anyone ever escape that layer to the "really real" world and to defeat the machines?

The answer is Popper - the child (in the animatrix) that escaped the first layer of the Matrix solely from faith. In Revolutions, Popper will also escape the Zion layer of the Matrix and certainly will awaken others. Why do I think Popper is so important? Because, in "Enter the Matrix," the Oracle stated that her termination code was sold to the Merovingian "for the love of their child" and that the child would serve the greatest purpose of all. Popper does not need to be awakened. Popper has the power to awaken.

I have a lot more, but that is a good first start. To preview some of my other beliefs: (1) the machines are at civil war; (2) Neo is the One; and (3) the old man that Neo talked to in utility room of zion was the most previous One.

did u know ohio backwards is oiho? o. wait nm. ok. well did u know yo banana boy w/ out spaces backwards is yobananaboy? cool huh?

Glad someone is awake. Any thoughts that are intelligent?

no

LOL !! you just said no.

but back to the first topic, nobody would understand this unless they saw the animatrix. and most of the ppl that have seen the matrix have not seen the animatrix. so, to most it would make no sense.
they do not noe of the stroy about popper waking himself up. so, this ending would make not much sense to many.

I understand that a lot of people have not seen the animatrix. However, the whole reason behind the animatrix (besides money) is to fill in gaps. Popper is in Reloaded and I do not believe this is just by happenstance. "Self-substantiation" (otherwise known as faith) will play a vital role. After all, the Architect said that "hope" is humankind's best and worst asset, and faith is premised on hope.

The answer is Popper - the child (in the animatrix) that escaped the first layer of the Matrix solely from faith. In Revolutions, Popper will also escape the Zion layer of the Matrix and certainly will awaken others. Why do I think Popper is so important? Because, in "Enter the Matrix," the Oracle stated that her termination code was sold to the Merovingian "for the love of their child" and that the child would serve the greatest purpose of all. Popper does not need to be awakened. Popper has the power to awaken.



can you give me that transcript of the game ? the theory is interesting, thus it's really hard to guess or argue if you miss parts of the information...

The following is an excerpt from the conversation between Ghost and the Oracle in Enter the Matrix:

Ghost - Can you tell me what happened to you?

The Oracle - Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.

Ghost - Why did they do that?

The Oracle - For love... For the life of their child.

Ghost - You knew about it, and yet you let it happened?

The Oracle - I had to...

Ghost - Why?

The Oracle - Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe that one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.


Now, I'm still not sure why Popper would be considered the child of two programs (unless he too is a program), but it is clear that the "child" of these two programs is VERY important. Of course, it seems so obvious that maybe Popper's role is simply to throw off the scent and that maybe the "child" now appears to be a grown man or woman. However, Popper's self-substantiation seems to be very important, since only he has self-substantiated.

could not that be neo she is reffering to ? Programs can be downloaded onto humans -matriculated, smith.

Neo is captured by the merovingian in M3.that's quite interesting.

is there any more context to that scene (when does it take place, etc)???

Jebulum, if you're online, go to the chat room so we can discuss.

sorry, i'm processing sommat really important right now, and i feel another applet would definitivel kill my pc/connection.
later eventually. :D

BTW, i'm sure we all would be glad and grateful if you could do the transcript of some other scenes in the game.at least, i'll really appreciate it.

While Ghost, Niobe, and Sparks are onboard the Logos, Sparks receives a call from Seraph that the Oracle wishes to speak with them. If Ghost is being used in the game, he must first fight Seraph and win, and if so, the following conversation occurs:

*Ghost enters the Oracle's kitchen, though she is different, played by a different actress*

The Oracle - You must be Ghost...

Ghost - Who are you?

The Oracle - I am the Oracle.

Ghost - If that's true, then what's my response to that postulate?

The Oracle - Truth is an event... And only through experience can the veracity of a truth be verified...

Ghost - William James.

The Oracle - You're asking me to prove it?

Ghost - Can you?

The Oracle - I can tell you that I only remember bits and pieces of my past... I don't remember your face, but I remember your heart. You asked me one question: if she [Trinity] would ever love you... I told you, only as a friend, as a brother...

*Ghost smiles...*

The Oracle - Yes... I remember that smile. I recall asking what you were thinking but I can't remember what you said.

Ghost - I thanked you... Because I felt freed.

The Oracle - From what?

Ghost - Expectation.

*The Oracle smiles...*

Ghost - Can you tell me what happened to you?

The Oracle - Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.

Ghost - Why did they do that?

The Oracle - For love... For the life of their child.

Ghost - You knew about it, and yet you let it happened?

The Oracle - I had to...

Ghost - Why?

The Oracle - Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe that one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.

Ghost - Is that why you called for me?

The Oracle - No... I am trying to prepare those that stand in the frontlines of our coming trial. We stand upon the edge of a precipice, the fall from which we will not return. Each of us must find courage, when we are most afraid to do what we must... That is our only hope.

*Seraph enters the room*

Seraph - We must go...

Ghost (to the Oracle) - Thank you.

*Ghost then puts on his sunglasses*

The Oracle - Ghost... You still love her, don't you?

Ghost - As much as she loves another...

The Oracle - That is a hard path to walk...

Ghost - Nietzsche said it best... One must want nothing to be different, not forward, not backward, not in all eternity. Not only bear what is necessary, but to love it.

The Oracle - Amor fati... You're a good man, Ghost... If somehow we do survive, if the path does continue, I hope it is made by others like you.

*Ghost and Seraph leave the room and enter the white hallway*

Seraph - I wish you luck and courage.

Ghost - Same to you.

*Seraph closes back the door and returns to the Oracle's apartment... Then, as Ghost is walking in the hallway, Agent Smith comes out of a door, and Ghost goes into a fight stance*

Agent Smith - Damn, not who I was hoping for. But perhaps you can help me find him...

Ghost - You're an agent.

Agent Smith - Oh no, no, not anymore...

Ghost - And what are you?

Agent Smith - Me? I suppose you could say... I'm the Alpha..

*another Agent Smith comes out of a door*

Agent Smith #2 - ... of your Omega.

*another Agent Smith arrives*

Agent Smith #3 - I am the beginning...

Agent Smith #1 - ... of your end.


UPON FURTHER REVIEW, it is interesting to note that the Oracle says: "We stand upon the edge of a precipice, the fall from which we will not return. Each of us must find courage, when we are most afraid to do what we must... That is our only hope." A precipe refers to a hazardous situation; a steep cliff, or; a vertical rock face. When Popper was hanging on the edge of the school building, he found the courage to do something very scary - take a leap of faith with the hope that he would awaken in Zion. I believe that someone in Revolutions (probably Popper) will take a leap of faith to awaken beyond Zion.

Now this is a interesting topic.. And I think that theory could can be very true, at least I have read somewhere that Popper will play bigger part in M3 than in M2.. :)

By the way, what is that "termination code of original shell"? And how can progs have a child? Well, at least seems that they have feelings and so on too..

As you may remember, in M1, Morph explained to Neo that we appear in the matrix as we imagine ourselves to appear. My guess is that Programs (AI) do not have imaginations and do not experience feelings such as hope and love (although progams are attempting to develop these feelings in order control them). The termination code of the original shell is probably the part of the Oracle's program which projects her outward appearances. Now that the termination code to the Oracle's outward shell has been sold, the Merovingian was able to destroy the Oracle's outward appearances. Therefore, it was necessary for the Oracle to obtain another outward shell program, thus altering her appearances. The question becomes who are the two programs and why and how do they have a child?

After Neo is offered something to eat or drink by the Merovingian and Neo refuses, the Merovingian says: "Yes, of course, who has time? Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time?" This encounter was preceded by a longer haired male with a beard being led away from the restaurant. Some have said that the sound of a clock can be heard as this occurs. Therefore, I think that this man being led away is the time program in the Matrix (some have also said that this man is outside the Oracle's apartment in M1 - I need to go back and watch it again, but this would suggest he is close to the Oracle). Just like the Keymaker, the Merovingian has now gathered the time program, probably as Time was selling the Oracle's termination code. Moreover, the Merovingian says "[The fortune teller's] time is almost up," and earlier in Reloaded, after Neo explains to the Oracle that he can see Trinity falling, the Oracle explains to Neo that he is now looking at the world without time. I know that this is a lot of info in a short paragraph, but it leads me to believe that the time program is one of these programs since it was close to the Oracle and is now being held captive by the Merovingian.

The other program, I still need to think about. Nevertheless, how does anyone have a child in the Matrix. If people have sex in the Matrix, do the machines need to transport the semen from the male into the egg of the female since they are not actually having sex? Perhaps when two programs have sex, they are assigned a child from whatever method is used to reproduce humans. Perhaps the child was adopted by two programs. I'm not sure, but it is interesting. If I had to guess, I would say the other program is Persephone since she has been seeking the feeling of love. Although she sought a romantic love in Reloaded, maybe she also sought a parental love. The question would then become how are Persephone and Time related, which I do not know and which I am still forming ideas for.

mmm.i follow for poppers, but that idea become difficult to accept.

the orcale can see thru time, because she's a somehow crucial progrm to the matrix, and as the achitect, can calculate an infinite probablities of combinations, then reduce the choice to the most probable ones.

but persephone, she admitted she was in love with the merovingian time ago.


The Oracle - Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.

Ghost - Why did they do that?

The Oracle - For love... For the life of their child.


how could perse+the merovingian give the termination code to himself ?

anyway, i agree that is troublesome.
it can either means that one of the humans we know is a program (if perfect AI is created, and if a program is dowloaded onto a human at birth and experiment human life, you can believe he will react/feel human).

or she is talking metaphorically, and the baby is a creation, maybe the matrix...


The Oracle - Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe that one day, the child will change both our world and your world forever.

Ghost - Is that why you called for me?

The Oracle - No... I am trying to prepare those that stand in the frontlines of our coming trial. We stand upon the edge of a precipice, the fall from which we will not return. Each of us must find courage, when we are most afraid to do what we must... That is our only hope.

i think that means programs and humans will hafto cooperate in some way to stop the fall of the matrix (smith), and the end for both species.

I agree that the humans and the machines will need to cooperate in order to survive, and that the Matrix will need to be sustained for a period of time before everyone is unplugged. However, I do not agree that the Matrix is the permanent solution.

It is obvious that the machines are not all acting as a cohesive unit. Rather, they are in conflict. Some AI, such as the Merovingian, seek more power, which means taking power away from other AI. I think we will see the "good" AI dethrone the "evil" AI in Revolutions. This will allow the "good" AI and the humans to work together in rebuilding the "real world."

Nevertheless, I still feel that Popper's self-substantiation will play an important role and that the Oracle was referring to Popper when she was saying he would change "our world and your world forever." Apropos, Popper has the power to awaken beyond these two worlds and the ability to change them from beyond forever. The relevant questions are: Which two programs is Popper the child of? And, is Popper also a program? I do not know the answers to these questions and this is why I posted in this forum - to obtain a collaborative viewpoint.

*Note: the Oracle refers to the two worlds as if they are equals ("our world and your world"), which further suggests to me that Zion is also a matrix.

they can also talk about Niobe, Trinity, whoever.i agree that popper will have an important role, i'm not sure if your theory is correct , but it is certainly interesting and open minded.

i also see the movie finishing on a reload of the matrix,mid good ending, with human and some programs working together to free humans from it, meanwhile others want to take control over the matrix, that would fit with the online game scenario anyway.

you should try to post that thread in the oracle forum, or the main one, you probably will receive more replies.

btw, the oracle would have said 'Ours worlds' if they were both on the same level of matrices.

well i obviosly hold the theory about popper. i certainly agree. but im still open to those who not with REASONS.

but about Neo shortcircuited the sentinels. would it be possible it is because of smith?smith said that both of them have imprinted some their code to the others, which allows smith to control human flesh (copying things) and allows neo to control or ate least some of connection with machines.

just a thought

Originally posted by Jebulum
The answer is Popper - the child (in the animatrix) that escaped the first layer of the Matrix solely from faith. In Revolutions, Popper will also escape the Zion layer of the Matrix and certainly will awaken others. Why do I think Popper is so important? Because, in "Enter the Matrix," the Oracle stated that her termination code was sold to the Merovingian "for the love of their child" and that the child would serve the greatest purpose of all. Popper does not need to be awakened. Popper has the power to awaken.



can you give me that transcript of the game ? the theory is interesting, thus it's really hard to guess or argue if you miss parts of the information...


try to have it in the www.gamefaqs.com. there's plot faq for the game with detailed script for each character.:)

Originally posted by Jebulum
The answer is Popper - the child (in the animatrix) that escaped the first layer of the Matrix solely from faith. In Revolutions, Popper will also escape the Zion layer of the Matrix and certainly will awaken others. Why do I think Popper is so important? Because, in "Enter the Matrix," the Oracle stated that her termination code was sold to the Merovingian "for the love of their child" and that the child would serve the greatest purpose of all. Popper does not need to be awakened. Popper has the power to awaken.



can you give me that transcript of the game ? the theory is interesting, thus it's really hard to guess or argue if you miss parts of the information...

sorry jebulum, something occured so i quoted your comment twice.

oh my god. the ticking time program guy is so much new for me. but is it possible that he's the one blabbing 72 hours to niobe in enter the matrix. i didnt recognize the face well, perhaps i have to see it again