read em and wee.

first off i feel dumb because i put read em and wee. dammit. . .

i've felt that some things have been gone overlooked in this forum. the following are some breif quotes and facts, many that ive posted b4, that i just want everyone to take into consideration.

quotes:

smith: we're not here becuz we're free. we're here cause we're not free. there's no escaping reason no denying purpose because as we both noe, w/o purpose we wouldnt exist.
(and why is neo not free?)

smith: becuz of you im no longer an agent of this system. becuz of you, im unplugged, ima new man, so to speak. like you, AppArentLy free.

smith: one zion is destroyed i have no reason to be here, dont you understand! i must get inside zion. i must get free. and in this mind lies the key, my key.
(many have said this quote simply means smith wanted to get into zions defense systems and computers, but i dont noe smith could call that freedom. plus, he was talking completely for himself, he could careless about the destruction of zion.)

facts:

neo stopped the sentinels. make up whatever you want about being the one, gaining power from the source/smith/persophone/etc. but none of this would give him the ability to feel the machines and then stop them much like he stops bullets in the matrix. some of you may think otherwise but i dont care.

smith had gained a hatred for the matrix. he wanted to get out. get free. get out and go where? to zion's computers? yeeeaaaahhh.....those are way better than the matrix. much more free. *sarcastically* plus, if he did get the codes, how could he imput them scine there is supposedly no connection between the matrix and zion's computers. smith could careless about the destruction of zion.

the definition of zion is as follows:
in religion, any city under God's rule.
...now, the Wachowski's chose this name for a reason. why else would they choose zion, taking into the consideration the definition? the machines are a lot like god to the humans, ironically, now that they control them.

the architect designed a matix in which the humans were given a choice. he knew for certain that some would realize the truth and reject the matrix. so then what? he's just gonna let them go? let them go free and pose a threat to himself and the machines? i dont think so. he made that 1% of rejected humans and made them believe that they were free, another method of control.

when the architect said, "she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it" he wasnt lying at all. even tho she didnt die in reloaded, she will die no matter what. either she would die right then, if he would have choose the other door, or she will die in the destruction of zion. be reasonable, theres no way that the humans could stop that army. 250,000 and rapidly growing? with all those daymn bomb things? no way, unless . . .

something else has to come into the plot. do you think that its just gonna end with neo stopping all the sentinels, how he coud do this w/o mim i dont noe, and then the humans being free and living happily ever after in the crap of an earth thats left? hu cares if the zion explainationo is pointless? it still makes a hell of a story. something else has to come into the plot in order for the movie to work out. even if the humans won the war, that would, to me, be an end. what happens from there? how do they free everyone in the matrix? (although now all the ppl in the matrix are supposedly going to die, if the architect wasnt bluffing)
as it is now, the humans could never stop that army. and if anybody can pull of this ending/mim, its the wachowski's.

you ask why nobody rejects the zion program if there is a mim.
i belive that neo has rejected the program. he's realized something different.

well:

i belive that the W. brothers will work it out with the mim ending, but with something that hasnt been thought of. they will make the mim ending satisfactory and concluding. iono how. . . but thats my belief. there's too much evidence on the mim to ignore it. these are the main points that i see leading to the mim. there are a grip load more but this post is already getting too long.

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z
first off i feel dumb because i put read em and wee. dammit. . .

i've felt that some things have been gone overlooked in this forum. the following are some breif quotes and facts, many that ive posted b4, that i just want everyone to take into consideration.

quotes:

smith: we're not here becuz we're free. we're here cause we're not free. there's no escaping reason no denying purpose because as we both noe, w/o purpose we wouldnt exist.
(and why is neo not free?)

smith: becuz of you im no longer an agent of this system. becuz of you, im unplugged, ima new man, so to speak. like you, AppArentLy free.

smith: one zion is destroyed i have no reason to be here, dont you understand! i must get inside zion. i must get free. and in this mind lies the key, my key.
(many have said this quote simply means smith wanted to get into zions defense systems and computers, but i dont noe smith could call that freedom. plus, he was talking completely for himself, he could careless about the destruction of zion.)

facts:

neo stopped the sentinels. make up whatever you want about being the one, gaining power from the source/smith/persophone/etc. but none of this would give him the ability to feel the machines and then stop them much like he stops bullets in the matrix. some of you may think otherwise but i dont care.

smith had gained a hatred for the matrix. he wanted to get out. get free. get out and go where? to zion's computers? yeeeaaaahhh.....those are way better than the matrix. much more free. *sarcastically* plus, if he did get the codes, how could he imput them scine there is supposedly no connection between the matrix and zion's computers. smith could careless about the destruction of zion.

the definition of zion is as follows:
in religion, any city under God's rule.
...now, the Wachowski's chose this name for a reason. why else would they choose zion, taking into the consideration the definition? the machines are a lot like god to the humans, ironically, now that they control them.

the architect designed a matix in which the humans were given a choice. he knew for certain that some would realize the truth and reject the matrix. so then what? he's just gonna let them go? let them go free and pose a threat to himself and the machines? i dont think so. he made that 1% of rejected humans and made them believe that they were free, another method of control.

when the architect said, "she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it" he wasnt lying at all. even tho she didnt die in reloaded, she will die no matter what. either she would die right then, if he would have choose the other door, or she will die in the destruction of zion. be reasonable, theres no way that the humans could stop that army. 250,000 and rapidly growing? with all those daymn bomb things? no way, unless . . .

something else has to come into the plot. do you think that its just gonna end with neo stopping all the sentinels, how he coud do this w/o mim i dont noe, and then the humans being free and living happily ever after in the crap of an earth thats left? hu cares if the zion explainationo is pointless? it still makes a hell of a story. something else has to come into the plot in order for the movie to work out. even if the humans won the war, that would, to me, be an end. what happens from there? how do they free everyone in the matrix? (although now all the ppl in the matrix are supposedly going to die, if the architect wasnt bluffing)
as it is now, the humans could never stop that army. and if anybody can pull of this ending/mim, its the wachowski's.

you ask why nobody rejects the zion program if there is a mim.
i belive that neo has rejected the program. he's realized something different.

well:

i belive that the W. brothers will work it out with the mim ending, but with something that hasnt been thought of. they will make the mim ending satisfactory and concluding. iono how. . . but thats my belief. there's too much evidence on the mim to ignore it. these are the main points that i see leading to the mim. there are a grip load more but this post is already getting too long. I think what smith is talking about is that we are slaves of our own destiny. We can't escape reason and reality of what we must do. Therefore when he was saying because of you i am here and stuff was because of neo's path his path is changed, he must go along with destiny because of neo's destiny. A slave to crosality as the merovingin would say.

maybe.

smith wanted to go to the machine world, once the war was over he could go there... or so he thought.

why would he think that? does he think that he could magically turn into a real being after the war was over? he knew his boundaries. he understands, i believe, that he the real world lacks the programming necessary for him to survive. or maybe he noes something about the real world. sumthing, what am i refering to when i say something? hmmmm. . .

dont overlook the other facts adn quotes that i wrote in also.

Originally posted by i c 3 d r p z
why would he think that? does he think that he could magically turn into a real being after the war was over? he knew his boundaries. he understands, i believe, that he the real world lacks the programming necessary for him to survive. or maybe he noes something about the real world. sumthing, what am i refering to when i say something? hmmmm. . .

dont overlook the other facts adn quotes that i wrote in also.
I think he knew he would rather not exist at all then have to be a pawn in the game. But now Smith is not a slave really at all. Now he can reek havoc anywhere. But I have this wierd suspision that smith has made a deal or something like that with the arc. I mean why would he be doing all this. Does he really hate humans that much?

that machine world you fricking numbnuts... holy christ, how many times does this need explaining?!

the matrix is not the world where most programs live, it is only a world of exiles and matrix programs. all the 'normal' programs live in the machine world, ie, the real world... they don't need a body, they just need a machine or hardrive to be stored on or whatever. God....

no need to get a temper now, terikan. just calm the hell down.
the machines in the real world arent fricking programs . . .der machines. they are thoughts and feelings are programmed, but they are not a program. a program is something written onto a certain system that can only run with that system. the ppl in the matrix were designed specifically for the matrix. they were never meant to leave. the machines designed these programs, ie agents, for the matrix, and they're purpose was to live in the matrix. they are part of the system and cannot exist w/o it.

so ur telling me smith wants to become a sentinel? sounds like bs to me.

and if you arent saying that, then how else could smith become real? he would be a robot, basically. written onto a machine w/hardrive, for example, a sentinel.

how would this accomplish anything for smith? okay he's a machine now. one of 500,000 in the real world. big promotion.

Please note:

The correct spelling is "know" not "noe." And please don't use dumb abbreviations such as I c u etc. It is these stupid abbreviations that are corrupting the English language like Smith corrupts the Matrix - quickly and always without concern for the common good.

please. . .

Yeah, he is right.
No, I don't mean that note, I mean this:
the machines in the real world arent fricking programs . . .der machines. they are thoughts and feelings are programmed, but they are not a program. a program is something written onto a certain system that can only run with that system. the ppl in the matrix were designed specifically for the matrix. they were never meant to leave. the machines designed these programs, ie agents, for the matrix, and they're purpose was to live in the matrix. they are part of the system and cannot exist w/o it.
Anywhere Smith is trying to go, if he is trying to go somewhere, there must exist compatibility.
What use should have, for example, being sentinels able to run programs designed for matrix?
The only place Smith can go is to another system, but which system than another matrix he can go? Otherwise he should come on an installer program with the needed pluggins (lol) to run properly, and even so he should just generate popup with an error message (lol).
:p
And to be stored in a hard drive means nothing. it's just a lot of data that does nothing than waste space.

i love you seba.

exactly, w/o another system (primarily another matrix) smith does not have the ability to survive. he is programmed based on rules in the matrix and is only able to survive in a program with the necessary electronics for him to survive. a hard drive, etc. lacks the programming necessary for smith to exist. how does anything the machines are based on compare with the complexity of the programming in the matrix ?

dont forget the other points i pointed out !

And we all love you Ic3derops and I'm not being funny hun. You haven't replied swearing back. I'm proud of you and I really enjoy your threads. Keep em coming.

love and a big huge

UT

if that's true, and Smith needs compatibility to exist "outside" of the Matrix, then how is it he can exit via the phone line into the body of Bane?

My theory is this: MIM or no MIM, people enter and exit the Matrix via phone lines, right? As they enter, their consciousness, for all intents and purposes, is translated into an electronic pulse or signal which allows them to exist within the Matrix. With that being said, why couldn't ANY signal (i.e. Smith) return into that waiting body? Regardless of whether there's MIM or not, people travel to and from the Matrix, so why couldn't a SENTIENT program do the same...the Matrix essentially has the same rules as the "real world"...

I personally do believe in the MIM theory...but regardless of that I'd say Smith can go whereever the rules are similar, and since the Matrix is based on the rules of the real world, why not?

"i love you seba."
What I love is that Persephone' pic.

"if that's true, and Smith needs compatibility to exist "outside" of the Matrix, then how is it he can exit via the phone line into the body of Bane? "
Because there is compatibility.

Althought I can do some 'corrections' to your theory, Hitman, I should explain my point of view instead. You will see we have something in common.
It can't be they just connects a plug directly in their brain. There must be something that gives support to that, some like implants that translates the digital data to whatever information the brain works with, and viceversa. Just an interface. What happened with Bane is that the digital information about Smith was translated to a brain.

"why couldn't ANY signal (i.e. Smith) return into that waiting body?"
Only agent Smith was able to convert the human mind into his own's inside the Matrix.

If being in a human body is what Smith wanted, if that is being free, it doesn't seems to be so. Otherwise we would have seen Bane shouting: I'm FREEEE!!!! or something like that. Istead fo that, he just keep trying to fulfill his purpose, that seems to be kill Neo.

: o )

smith's compatilbilty with the matrix, and all programs for that matter, was different in m2. i believe that smith could move into bane becuz bane, and all humans born in the matrix for that matter, are somewhat a program: plugs and etc. becuz bane is compatible with the matrix, combined with the virus-like state of smith, smith was able to invade the programming within bane and as result become him. just as agents can invade the programming in humans connected to the matrix, smith can now invade all programs. this is how i see it happening.

omfg....

since smith tried to replicate morpheus into himself, do you think that its at all possible that some of smith's coding imprinted onto morpheus?

okay terikan, since you noe everything, tell me how it happened. i wish i knew everything like you do terikan.

many good arguments are listed in my first post in this thread, other than the smith one. read through the entire post.

Originally posted by Seba Reloaded
Yeah, he is right.
No, I don't mean that note, I mean this:

Anywhere Smith is trying to go, if he is trying to go somewhere, there must exist compatibility.
What use should have, for example, being sentinels able to run programs designed for matrix?
The only place Smith can go is to another system, but which system than another matrix he can go? Otherwise he should come on an installer program with the needed pluggins (lol) to run properly, and even so he should just generate popup with an error message (lol).
:p
And to be stored in a hard drive means nothing. it's just a lot of data that does nothing than waste space.

check Matriculated of the Animatrix,
Machines can be pluged onto a system and communicate with humans.Sentinels have real, even tho basic AI.the one converted even fight for humans in that anime.
2ndly, Smith can transfert himself into bayne, which shows how programs in the matrix have an AI pretty much similar to...humans

if both machines/programs are pretty similar to humans, so are surely compatible.i wouldn't be surpirsed seeing a program transferred onto a machine, or vie versa, like seraph.
and machines wouldn't work without a program.

why does he wanna be free from the matrix?
don't you want sometimes leaving your work and take a break sunny island ?
Where does program go ? probably in the main city or a giant computer, interacting with other programs, trying to evolve, purpose of any being with AI,or even get transferred onto machines.

does that make sense for you ? :)

yeah that's what being free is to Smith. and, not being a believer of the MIM theory, now that he is outside of the Matrix inside of Bane. But he still tries to fulfill his purpose, to kill Neo

Machines can be pluged onto a system and communicate with humans.Sentinels have real, even tho basic AI.the one converted even fight for humans in that anime.
That is already what the Matrix is, a system where humans and programs/AI interacts. No need to see that animatrix to know that, althought I hope to see all of them, and hope to be soon.

2ndly, Smith can transfert himself into bayne, which shows how programs in the matrix have an AI pretty much similar to...humans
I already stated my point of view on how that happened. I wonder what do you mean with 'pretty much similar'. It's supposed the AI was created with an human behavior, it just explain 'why it does what it does'. That is the similitude. The AI is a program(s), it's digital data. It's not what the brain works with. There isn't compatibility.

if both machines/programs are pretty similar to humans, so are surely compatible
Try to run Windows 95 programs on WindowsXP. Similitude doesn't mean compatibility.

why does he wanna be free from the matrix?
Do you know what Smith is exactly? An agent? Why he was the leader if there is no leader agent in M2? The other agent from M1 were replaced with upgrades. Why Smith was able to chose what to do? Why he has a different purpose now?
I think we must be sure of all of this to understand "why does he wanna be free from the matrix", that is, if he still wants to do that.

Look, I don't mean that you're definitely wrong, or that it doesn't make any sense. But what you said can be interpreted in many ways, just as the one I have interpreted.
Obviouly, the 'master' interpretation will be that what the Wbros will give us in M3.
;)

Originally posted by Seba Reloaded
The only place Smith can go is to another system, but which system than another matrix he can go?
There has to be some sort of buffer. Someplace where the programs can exist apart from the simulation that is the Matrix. Otherwise they'd be destroyed whenever the Matrix is rebooted, and we know from The Merovingian's "I survived your predecessors and I will survive you" statement that this isn't happening. Perhaps that's what The Source is. When a program goes rogue or exile, that means it's hiding within the Matrix.

What if Smith just doesn't want to exist in any form anymore.. To be totally free, not to exist.

Originally posted by Seba Reloaded


if both machines/programs are pretty similar to humans, so are surely compatible
Try to run Windows 95 programs on WindowsXP. Similitude doesn't mean compatibility.


you forget that the system has been corrupted by profit, and therefore humanity.if a computer with AI had to create a system, all pieces would fit together, a contrario from nowadays' PCs.

Originally posted by Seba Reloaded


Look, I don't mean that you're definitely wrong, or that it doesn't make any sense. But what you said can be interpreted in many ways, just as the one I have interpreted.
Obviouly, the 'master' interpretation will be that what the Wbros will give us in M3.
;)

i agree with you so much one that one, i do not pretend that what i say is true, it is an interpretation.i'm quite interested by others views, hence why i'm here. :)

It's all about purpose. Smith wants to be free of purpose. Like every program the even runs today, it's life cycle is as follows:

Loaded into memory.
Serves it's purpose.
Is unloaded from memory. (free if you can call it that)

Smith is a program his wants to accomplish his task. He views everything from a programs perspective. Neo still has a purpose and is not free yet. This also goes into the budistic view of life and nirvana.

yes, i suppose you have a point, that makes some sense.

Why does agent smith want the codes from zion computers ? because it's linked to the main defense system, and the main entrance to Zion.
why don't they need it in reloaded?
because they bypass the main entrance by forging the ground from the surface of the hearth. that would have been pointless to do that and destroy humanity before the anomality occurs.