For people who still have questions

I have been reading alot of posts on this board and it seems to me that people are missing the point of The Matrix. This is probably the most philosophical movie EVER written and what makes it truly amazing is how the Wachowski brothers wove together so many different sources to make one majestic work of art. Anybody ever heard of a book called Neuromancer?? Well, it is the same premise as the Wachowski's movie thogh different story (and it was written in 1984). anyway...

i have some ideas of my own about The Matrix -

- The Smith issue:
1. In m1, Smith wasnt trying to kill Neo - Smith referred to Neo as 'their next target' (meaning the person who morpheus will free next) - has anyone seen "Detective Story"? it details how the agents use normal people to get to the hackers - Smith had no intention of killing Neo he wanted to use him to find Morpheus to kill him
2. when smith is 'killed' by neo his programming wasnt destroyed (anyone that knows anything 'bout computers knows that you cant simply delete something and be full rid of it) and moving on the assumption that neo is in fact at least part program, part of neos programming was copied into smiths "I am unplugged" he says. he later says that he was there to take from neo what he tried to take from them - Purpose => what does this mean?? the prophecy and the one are both systems of control designed to keep whoever (humans or ai) trapped in the matrix by following this false prophecy (Neo's purpose is not to destroy the matrix but rather to propagate the prophecy of the one and keep the humans/ai enslaved in an endless cycle of death/rebirth - smith wants to have the one's power - to have the ultimate power inside the matrix (the oracle says to neo what do those with power want?? more power. more on the smith issue in a later post

- The Oracle/Architect issue:

1. The oracle of delphi - Greek Mythology: the oracles were usually women who were considered 'close to the gods' they gave their prophecies after inhaling the breath of apollo (commonly believed to be ether) and required an interpreter to convey the message to the seeker because due to the drug the oracle would ramble in tongues.
2. before the oracle in the matrix speaks to Neo, she takes a batch of cookies out of her oven and inhales the aroma - then begins prophesying. but in the same manner as in ancient greece: the oracles never gave SPECIFIC prophecies, they were always general by nature and very vague.
EXAMPLE: a king of Greek mythology visited the oracle at Delphi (the center of the world as determined by Zeus) and asked for guidance on his military strategy (he was about to make war on the Persian empire) and the oracle said to him "If you go into battle no, a great kingdom will fall" well sure enough he went into battle and his own kingdom was destroyed.
The oracle in the Matrix does the same thing to Neo : "one of you is going to die, which one is up to you" Neo goes in to the matrix to save morpheus and ends up dying in the hallway after being shot by agent smith.

this post is getting pretty long so ill cut off here - but more to come soon

[eyekon]

you have lots to say about the matrix, which is great. maybe you can give me your opinion, then. a friend of mine is insistent that the guy unconscious beside neo in the end of reloaded is agent smith. i don't buy it. i've got my reasons, but he says it's like basic fact.....i wanna hear third party opinions.

smith is a program...just like the oracle right??? there isn't a human out there in a pod that gives the oracle her mind...same as smith. that guy isn't smith because smith is a program inside the matrix...he's not attached to a human, especially one that's been freed???

am i missing something??

Originally posted by Rye
you have lots to say about the matrix, which is great. maybe you can give me your opinion, then. a friend of mine is insistent that the guy unconscious beside neo in the end of reloaded is agent smith. i don't buy it. i've got my reasons, but he says it's like basic fact.....i wanna hear third party opinions.

smith is a program...just like the oracle right??? there isn't a human out there in a pod that gives the oracle her mind...same as smith. that guy isn't smith because smith is a program inside the matrix...he's not attached to a human, especially one that's been freed???

am i missing something??

Rye, you're missing the Fact, that is that Zion IS in the Matrix... It's not real, thus Smith took over the body of the man lying next to Neo (the body of Bane).. He was able to do that because as he told Neo, when the met, he could realise the truth, which is what I mentioned above. The fact that Bane didn't change his appearance to that of Smith's, as he would given the fact that Smith took over his body, is maybe because Zion's fake world, is based on a different programming. However this is irrelevant. The fact is that Bane (the person lying next to Neo IS Smith). Try and read some posts on the things I told you, they could really help you understand.

o.k. so isn't all that assuming that Zion is fake...you know part of the matrix??? because to me Zion is the really real world...if Bane (thanks for the name) was freed before neo invaded smith then how does smith take over bane's body???

i just think there's a lot of assuming going on

Because at the time Bane was plugged into the matrix.



.Roy

No offence but I think you're missing the Point. I am not assuming that Zion is in the Matrix, I believe so. This is the meaning of M2. This is what the architect says to Neo. With M2 you realise that the PROPHECY, the ONE, and all these fate stuff, is a mean of control. Zion was designed for the 1% of the human minds who didn't accept the Matrix. It will help you realise this if you recall the lines of the Arch: "only 99% of the subjects accepted the program if they were given a choise even if that was on a subconcious level" something like that. Zion was created for the people who tended to wake up from the Matrix, so that they could be controled to. I never base an arguement on an assumption. Unfortunatelly, as Morpheus cleverly remarked, noone can be told what the Matrix is.. you have to see for yourself. So, I suggest that you watch Reloaded once more, or maybe twice more, (although I believe that you already have a thousand times :) ) And try to pinpoint those elements that show you what I said above. They are everywhere throughout, the movie, but you won't be able to figure them out, unless you fully understand the meaning of the Architect's sayings.

Originally posted by Cirix
Because at the time Bane was plugged into the matrix.



.Roy

Yeah, I didn't mention this because I thought it was a given. Anyway, thanks for the tip Cirix.

o.k. forgot about the anomaly part....sometimes there's so much to remember.

let's pretend for a moment that Zion isn't a program built for those who don't accept the matrix....that it really IS something real. Aldus Huxley's A Brave New World...those who did not accept society went to live on that island. they weren't executed, it could be argued that those people on the island could overthrow society at some point.
couldn't it be argued that zion is real and those anomalies were "swept under the rug" so-to-speak. they were allowed to live their lives until they got too strong and before they could destroy the matrix totally they would be executed. except now Neo is around and that might not happen.....

how can you be sure bane was unplugged as smith???

you see, i have seen reloaded numerous times, however, i have no experience with enter the matrix or animatrix and without those two i know i miss alot.

Originally posted by [eyekon]
- The Smith issue:
1. In m1, Smith wasnt trying to kill Neo - Smith referred to Neo as 'their next target' (meaning the person who morpheus will free next) - has anyone seen "Detective Story"? it details how the agents use normal people to get to the hackers - Smith had no intention of killing Neo he wanted to use him to find Morpheus to kill him
No no, careful now. Smith never killed Morpheus, not when he beat him in the bathroom, and not when in custody. Smith wanted Morpheus for the access codes to the Zion mainframe.
Originally posted by [eyekon]
2. when smith is 'killed' by neo his programming wasnt destroyed (anyone that knows anything 'bout computers knows that you cant simply delete something and be full rid of it)
True. You can still retrieve the lost data. What was deleted must also be OVERWRITTEN before it's truly destroyed. The Oracle says (in her second talk with Neo) that sometimes programs are written to replace others. Since 3 upgraded agents were written for the Matrix, wouldn't that prevent Smith from coming back?
Originally posted by [eyekon]
and moving on the assumption that neo is in fact at least part program, part of neos programming was copied into smiths "I am unplugged" he says. he later says that he was there to take from neo what he tried to take from them - Purpose => what does this mean?? the prophecy and the one are both systems of control designed to keep whoever (humans or ai) trapped in the matrix by following this false prophecy (Neo's purpose is not to destroy the matrix but rather to propagate the prophecy of the one and keep the humans/ai enslaved in an endless cycle of death/rebirth -
If Neo is part program as well as part human, he should be working to free BOTH humans and AIs then, yes?
Originally posted by [eyekon]
smith wants to have the one's power - to have the ultimate power inside the matrix (the oracle says to neo what do those with power want?? more power. more on the smith issue in a later post
He already has ultimate power inside the Matrix. All of the other programs should be running in fear from Smith, since he can erase them all by copying himself onto them. Smith is a greater threat to the machines than Neo.
Originally posted by [eyekon]
- The Oracle/Architect issue:

1. The oracle of delphi - Greek Mythology: the oracles were usually women who were considered 'close to the gods' they gave their prophecies after inhaling the breath of apollo (commonly believed to be ether) and required an interpreter to convey the message to the seeker because due to the drug the oracle would ramble in tongues.
I learned it was opium, but who really knows.
Originally posted by [eyekon]
2. before the oracle in the matrix speaks to Neo, she takes a batch of cookies out of her oven and inhales the aroma - then begins prophesying.
Or could be they're just really good cookies. Why would a PROGRAM need to inhale anything before prophesying?
Originally posted by [eyekon]
but in the same manner as in ancient greece: the oracles never gave SPECIFIC prophecies, they were always general by nature and very vague.
That is a common parlor trick. By staying vague and general, the listeners can take lots of things to mean that the prophesy or the fortune telling was true.
Originally posted by [eyekon]
The oracle in the Matrix does the same thing to Neo : "one of you is going to die, which one is up to you" Neo goes in to the matrix to save morpheus and ends up dying in the hallway after being shot by agent smith.
Good point. I had not thought of it that way before.