something that bothers me about cypher

why when cypher double crosses morpheus, does he need to be told where a telephone booth is...and for that matter why does neo not get busted sooner at the end when looking for a telephone...should'nt the agents know where all of the phones are?

why won't anyone reply?
you guys disappoint me.

Sorry my reply wasn't fast enough for you.

Cypher had to ask for a booth because it's not only knowing where the booth is, but also the operator has to call it to initiate the exit.

As for the other question, it's obvious the agents know, given that Smith was waiting for Neo in the last chapter. How much faster do you think they should have gotten him?

-WC-

thanks for the reply...I totally get it now (regarding that tank had to call cypher)...But in regards to the agent...I guess what I mean is this: If they are trying to get to the nearest phone, # 1 should'nt it be closer than it always is, and #2 the agent should morph into someone near that phone.. ..It seems to me that it should be impossible for anyone to ever get out of the matrix..the agents should have the technology to have someone at all phones...

even tho it hasnt been fully explained, it appears that they select entrances and exits based on internal information for their safety.

true they could probably have everyone in the world become an agent and block all phones, or use more agents to telemorph to all the closest ones --- right? dunno -- either way the agents were working with cyph in that movie, correct?

i guess the key thing to remember is that the matrix is a program, and it will do what its programmed to do, regardless of the logic involved.

assuming there are that many agents. We don't know the rules the system has about that.

There also may be so many phones, it would not be feasible to the system to cover all phones.

If I was the system, I would cut all the hardlines - but there must be some logic into why they can't.

-WC-

See the Agents are machines in the real world that can "contaminate" the digital bodies of people that are not released from the matrix, but yet the un-released people have control of their digital self in the Matrix unless and agent at that time has taken control of one of them

So they dont really have the power to keep a person at a phone at ALL times because they can not control the digital bodies of the un-released person without "contaminating" him or her, meaning as soon as they contaminate another person the last person unless killed while an agent would then be able to move away from the phone and go about his or her day.

And I think there is only 3 agents, but as you might have seen from a preiview to Matrix: Reloaded that Agent Smith is now able to copy his digital self and produce more agents wich hypothetically could allow them to keep an agent at every phone at all times, but as well there are billions of phones that could be potentially used to be taken out of the Matrix, and also from the looks of another trailer to Reloaded it looks as if their new phones allows them to move in and out of the matrix freely without a hard line like they used to, and if so keeping a digital copy of Agent Smith at the billions of phones around the world would then be pointless.

maybe they can't because they need to get out too ie matrix reloaded and revolutions..

Hmm. There is a strange man sitting next to my telephone. Says he's with the FBI. No. nothing weird about that.

About the phones and hard lines ....

Remember - the matrix has you

I don't see why the "hard line" couldn't be represented by a tree or anything else. The phone probably made sense for the directors (i.e. relating the hardline to the phone as it represents communication) and also for any pre-fictional setup of these hardlines. People entering the matrix set up the hardlines as phones because it made sense to represent it as a communications device. The phone or cell phone is just a matrix abstraction. We don't know what a hard line is. Maybe they are just hacks that are opened by people of Zion and then shared with those who need them to enter into the matrix?

Also, in response to the original post, Cypher's body was to be reinserted into the matrix. It is unclear whether agents (or the Matrix) would be able to download him into the matrix as a virtual entity. My assumption is not.

You have to remember that everyone in the matrix is hard wired into it. . There's nothing like a cell phone or a little antenna or anything. They are actually plugged in at the head. They have to have a hard "landline" to get in and out. I guess the matrix is not so technologically advanced to work with a cell phone.

Ooh, very good, I like that! It answers the cell-phone question I asked in this thread (http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=275). Thanks!

Yes, they neaded a hardline on Morpheus' ship but they are on Niobe's ship now and the plug in thier head looked different, hence they may be able to use thier cell phones...

Originally posted by WildCard

As for the other question, it's obvious the agents know, given that Smith was waiting for Neo in the last chapter. How much faster do you think they should have gotten him?

-WC-

Wildcard... the agents only knew that was the room because if you dont notice it was the same room that they tried to catch Trinity at the start of the movie.

About hardlines ...

Still sticking to my guns that "hardlines" are just an abstraction in the matrix. Whether it is a cell phone, pay phone, or tonka truck. Also "hardline" is decieving. Obviously those people still living in the matrix as their reality are hardwired, but not the ships! I doub't there is some network tether following the ship wherever it goes. I do remember something about being at "broadcast depth" from the first movie. Even though there is a hard jack into the individual on the ships, the signal is broadcast to the matrix sans hard wires. This implies that hardlines are security holes that are either simply found in the matrix or hacked by free humans.

I doub't there is some network tether following the ship wherever it goes. Ha!!! That's a hilarious thought. I see your point.

About hardlines and the ships, note that Morph says on a few occasions, 'Take us to broadcast depth'. Infers communications is via some air broadcast, me thinks.

As for the comment that Neo is shot in the same room that Trinity is almost caught in in the beginning, you know, if that is true I didn't know that.

I will have to look at that later.

-WC-

Well two things first yes it is the same room/hotel that Trinity was in the beginning of M1. So that is how Smith knew.

For the second thing. though I believe there is some kind of air broadcast there is another possibility. The machines may have all their communication lines run at a certain depth in the earth. This would make the tether idea possible. The idea would be that you would have to come to a certain depth and tap into the existing hardlines. This was done by the USA in the cold war where US subs would put monitoring devices on Soviet communication hardlines run on the ocean floor. The soviets thought that the lines were safe becuase they were so deep. This could be a similar idea with jacking into an existing communication line and so creating a temporary direct connection. We never actually see a ship right before or after the hacking from the outside so we don't know if they are connecting to something else.

I never knew that it was the same room that Trinity was in, how cool! Now Im going to HAVE to watch Matrix again just to see that part. I love this!!!!

Hmmm - I will have to look for that (same rooms theory) myself. It'll give me something to do when I log out of here tonight.

As far as Cypher's need to go back - some folks have touched on it, but I have not as yet seen the thought completed. He was required to do more than simply drop the dialed cell phone into the trash to key the agents into where they were. It was also suggested later one when the third agent enters the room where they are holding Morphius and announces "we have a problem" that they have not heard from their contact, suggesting he failed some task (presumably killing the entire crew) on board the Neb. They clarify that sentinels were launched anyway as planned.

This of course, all occurs after we already know that Cipher did try to kill the crew as well as the others and did not complete that attempt.

KL

Eghad, I feel stupid now - they telegraphed this (the room being the same that trinity was in). He mentions its an old exit - both times it pans down the sign - both times 303 shows up. And the second time Smith stops a second outside the main entrance looking up at the 'familiarity' of the location.

How did I miss that? *smacks self* Well, I have seen it over 100 times already and I am still picking up very blatant things!

KL

The point is Cypher comes through in the clutch. Everything he does is "behind your back." Your not supposed to know the technicality of bad guy plots. All you need to know is he went to the Grandmaster's Smiths house and got all of the answers, and cashed out everyone that was badform and had know name tags..

Here is his sucessful hitlist

* Switch
* A-pac
* Dozer
* tank
* last but not least he snuck from behind and backstabbed Morpheus AKA- Crazy Legs himself!

It really doesn't matter how the phone situations were set up, its just that Cypher set up his friends nicely and they couldn't do anything about it cause hes ultimate bad guy lol

--------Quote " Don't hate me Trinity, im just the messenger "-----------

He may be the ultimate bad guy, but he's still dead. Besides, you forgot to add Mouse to your hit list.

Originally posted by theoneandonly
He may be the ultimate bad guy, but he's still dead. Besides, you forgot to add Mouse to your hit list.


Cypher did not actually kill Mouse. Mouse was shot to death. Though most likely he would of pulled his plug too.

Keep this in mind. Being a Ultimate backstabbing bad guy like Cypher is... They always die in the end. Its in there contract

Sorry forgot to add Mouse to the hitlist. After all he did get snagged:)

Very true with that whole bad guy contract!

Originally posted by WildCard
Sorry my reply wasn't fast enough for you.

Cypher had to ask for a booth because it's not only knowing where the booth is, but also the operator has to call it to initiate the exit.

As for the other question, it's obvious the agents know, given that Smith was waiting for Neo in the last chapter. How much faster do you think they should have gotten him?

-WC-
I would like to add that at the beginning when Trinity trieds 2 escape Smith is about to smash a pay phone. hmmmm...

Didnt he actually smash it with that truck? May be the matrix rebuilt it and they were able to still keep that tap on that phone?? who knows.