The mother of the matrix.

In M2, when Neo was in the room with the architect, the architect says 'if i am the father of the matrix then she would be the mother of the matrix' and then neo says 'the oracle...' and the architect says '..please...' (or something like that). I was curious who the mother of the Matrix may be.

Originally posted by xX Seraph Xx
In M2, when Neo was in the room with the architect, the architect says 'if i am the father of the matrix then she would be the mother of the matrix' and then neo says 'the oracle...' and the architect says '..please...' (or something like that). I was curious who the mother of the Matrix may be.

I always thought he was just offended by the name 'The Oracle' because to the architect her name is probably ORC12_be.exe or something like that.

:p

it sounded, when he said 'please', that he was really meaning 'you must be joking...'

I agree. A lot of people have put forewward arguments for Persephone, and some even for Trinity and Niobe, but I think the Mother is the Oracle.
I think that the Architect says 'please' in such a way, because he is disgusted, but also amused, that humans would use such a superstitios name as 'Oracle' to desribe something that is ultimately a computer programmer.

Remember, the Architect describes the mother of the matrix as ’an intuitive program’. So that rules Trinity out (, since I think she’s human). Persephone I’m not sure about, but so far she hasn’t played an important enough role in M2 to accredit her with such an important title. However, thinking of it, her actions do emphasize feelings a lot. And given her being the wife of the Merovingian, she, like him, must have been around pretty much since the beginning. Hmm...something to think about, but I still go for the Oracle being the mother of the Matrix, though.

I also think the oracle is the mother of the matrix, or some other masterprogram in the matrix that can predict a lot of what is going to happen by reading persons or programs actions.

I also think there are a lot of conversations you can interprete in many different ways, like the architect saying please described above...

I think the "Please" is treating the suggestion that this woman is an "Orcale" with the contempt he feels it deserves.

I believe that it is either the Orcale or Persephone and it will be impossible to tell untill Revolutions comes out.

This is why I think the Oracle is the Mother of the Matrix:

The Matrix is all about control (over the humans).

That whole deal with The One and Zion turns out to be just another measure of control on the part of the machines.

Of course they would rather not have them there, but at the moment they don't have a 100% believable Matrix version. The best shot they've come up with (the 99% the Architect is talking about), implies accepting some degree of human rejection (1%), so the best the machines can do is to control that remnant. That means Zion and someone they can fool to provide that irrational
human element (free choice) they can't provide themselves and to reload the (improved) Matrix program. So they invent The
One. This solution, the Architect explains, was stumbled upon by "...an intuitive program initially created to investigate
certain aspects of human psyche".

The Oracle seems to be the one who understands the human psyche best. Remember how she's constantly able to predict Neo's choices in their meetings? And how she always talks of how Neo feels (as opposed to the Architect's strictly logical
dialogue)? This suggests a high degree of knowledge of the human psyche (, something the Architect is absolutely oblivious
about. He fails to predict Neo's choice and belittles the one factor (hope) that helps Neo to do the impossible (saving Trinity)).

Who is the motivator of Neo becoming The One? Morpheus. But who was behind Morpheus? The Oracle!

Seraph protecting "what matters most" is an indication that the Oracle is someone high in the hierarchy, in fact the highest,
if one is to take Seraph's word literally. In other words, the Mother of the Matrix.

I'd like to point out that the Oracle actually confirms Neo's guess that she is a program and that he has no way of telling
whether trusting her is a good idea at all. And in fact, rationally speaking, Neo shouldn't. But the Oracle is nonetheless
counting on Neo to do so anyway. Why? Again, those irrational sides of the human nature: Curiosity. Who would at that point
just walk away with a comment that rationally, he cannot trust her? Noone, and the Oracle, as the intuitive program, now very
well aware of the pitfalls of the human psyche is playing her game well.

Here's where the Oracle gives herself away: In the final bit of their last meeting she urges Neo: "Listen to me Neo. You can save Zion if you reach the source."
Can you hear an echo of the Architect's words here?
"The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion."
She's trying to sell him the same lie as the Architect! We know that going to the source means reloading the Matrix, thus
reinforcing and perpetuating the machine's domination over mankind. Yet, this is what the Oracle wants Neo to do. This is
where the five predecessors have failed and what the machines are counting on Neo to do too. The Architect's disappointment
with Neo's choice is hard to conceal in his final offended comment about hope.

To sum up: The Oracle is the Mother of the Matrix because she guides the One to the Source where she has him believe that his
choice will save Zion, whereas the opposite will happen, thus preserving machine domination over man. This scheme, based on
the irrational side of the human psyche and most notably on choice, has proven superior in gaining human acceptance in the
Matrix and thereby makes the Oracle the Mother of the Matrix.

A brilliant assessment.

But, not sure that I agree that The Oracle has given herself away as being in cahoots with The Architect. Does it really matter what she tells Neo specifically? We know she lies to him -- she lied to him back in M1 and said SORRY KID, YOU'RE NOT THE ONE!

Listen to Morpheus. "She told you...exactly what you needed to hear."

Conclusion: The Oracle is The Mother of The Matrix because...

...she's the only one giving out cookies and candy!!!!!!!

why do so many people think that it is peresphone? and BTW is peresphone a name in greek mythology cuz i think i have heard it before there but im not sure.

But, not sure that I agree that The Oracle has given herself away as being in cahoots with The Architect. Does it really matter what she tells Neo specifically? We know she lies to him -- she lied to him back in M1 and said SORRY KID, YOU'RE NOT THE ONE!

Well, I got that impression too the first time I saw that scene. But, actually what the Oracle says to Neo is:

Sorry, kid. You got the gift but looks like you're waiting for something.

She's not strictly saying that Neo isn't the One. She's just indicating that he isn't ready yet. That's no lie, as the following shows.

If the oracle is the mother of the matrix and her role is to get Neo to choose door #1 to reload the matrix then when she meets with Neo in M2 and says "I am interested in one thing Neo, the future. and believe me, I know. The only way to get there is together" She is actually telling him more than "what he needs to here" but giving him misleading information. What would be an alternate reason for her to say that about gett to the future together?

Matrixio, you are right, I stand corrected.

This is my theory on Persephone. I realize it's sort of getting off thread, but then again maybe not, since some people think she's the Matrix's mother, and I say not.

The daughter of gods herself, the original namesake was forcibly taken from them by the worst of their kind, the lord of the underworld. The parent gods eventually succeeded in bringing her back home, but because she had accepted nourishment while in the underworld, she could not escape it entirely. She was therefore sentenced to splitting her life between two homes for the rest of eternity -- the underworld, and the mortal world above -- which is how the seasons originated. This duality of residence can probably be applied to the character in M2 as well: since the duality itself originated from love (neither realm could be complete without her), it is my theory that her function within the Matrix also has to do with love. To be more specific, she is a program charged with ensuring that love between the humans (mortal love, if you will) feels as natural, warm, life-giving and soulfully wholesome within the Matrix as it does without. To this end, she has been given all of the sensual and physical attributes of both humans and their avatars in the Matrix. In other words, they have made her as human as a machine/program entity can possibly be. I think the casting choice of Italy's most sensuous actress to play this role is a big clue towards this theory, and the price of a kiss from Neo, plus the dialogue surrounding that scene, is yet another. Although I cannot recall if the mythological figure of Persephone had any such powers (if she had any at all), I believe this theory isn't stretching them much.

it is the oracle he just said "PLEASE" because she helped create the matrix and the architecht would never refer her to "THE ORACLE" so he said please like oh please she is not an oracle

wow it seems as though obody has any share of my view of this...

Its along one...



The beautiful daughter of Demeter and Zeus, Persephone is the focus of the story resulting in the division of the seasons, giving us the sweetness of Spring and the bitterness of Winter. Hades did not woo the beautiful Persephone, he abducted her and took her to his underground kingdom. After much protest, Persephone came to love the cold blooded king of the underworld but her mother, Demeter, was consumed with rage and sorrow. She demonstrated her anger by punishing the earth’s inhabitants, gentle and fierce with bitter cold and blustering winds. Unless Persephone was returned of to her mother’s side, the earth would perish.
Herakles came to the rescue. He entered the kingdom of Hades and negotiated a compromise between the (usually cold and selfish) Hades and the (usually loving and caring) Demeter. All agreed that Persephone would to spend part of the year with her husband, Hades, and part of the year with her mother, Demeter.
When Persephone is with Hades the earth is wracked by the sorrow of her mother. But, when Persephone returns from the underworld to walk the earth again, Demeter pours forth the blessings of Spring to welcome her beloved daughter home.

I dont think that has anything to do with the actual story of the Matrix though...

If the oracle is the mother of the matrix and her role is to get Neo to choose door #1 to reload the matrix then when she meets with Neo in M2 and says "I am interested in one thing Neo, the future. and believe me, I know. The only way to get there is together" She is actually telling him more than "what he needs to here" but giving him misleading information. What would be an alternate reason for her to say that about gett to the future together?

Well, here's one:
In line with my thinking where the Oracle is actually on the machines' side, she is playing another mind trick on Neo: She doesn't mean the future of mankind, but her own, and that of the machines. The reason she refers to the togetherness is as explained previously, that the machines at present still need a human to reload the Matrix, which again is the means to secure the future for the machines.

'Puhleaze, and you call me God I'm sure' :D
The please is just referring to the name we give her, 'The Oracle', he probably thinks it's rediculous.

And as for the ORC12_be.exe, I strongly doubt such a system could ever be supported by a Windows 9x system, or any Windows OS for that matter. The processing-power-to-performance ratio for Windows would be far too low, I'd rather think it ran on QNX or sum' like that ;)

Originally posted by Matrixio
The reason she refers to the togetherness is as explained previously, that the machines at present still need a human to reload the Matrix, which again is the means to secure the future for the machines.

Could The Oracle have been referring to something else? Recall the scene in M2 where the Counsilor takes Neo down to visit the engineering section of Zion. They conclude that Man requires Machine to survive, and conversely that Machine requires Man to function. A strange exchange, no? If we combine this dialogue with The Oracle's statement, it means that M3 is heading for a future where Man and Machine can coexist peacefully. Possibly even to the extent where Man and Machine cannot be totally distinguished, as I think we've seen some of that in M2.

Otherwise, why mention this symbiosis?

Funny thing, I just wondered this one myself yesterday. :) Who knows, there can be new characters in M3 too..

Could The Oracle have been referring to something else? Recall the scene in M2 where the Counsilor takes Neo down to visit the engineering section of Zion. They conclude that Man requires Machine to survive, and conversely that Machine requires Man to function. A strange exchange, no? If we combine this dialogue with The Oracle's statement, it means that M3 is heading for a future where Man and Machine can coexist peacefully. Possibly even to the extent where Man and Machine cannot be totally distinguished, as I think we've seen some of that in M2.

Hmm. Interesting thought. I hadn't thought of it in this light. Could be, you know? But then, you're thinking that The Oracle could have benevolent intentions with humans? But assuming that, why all the deceit? Why not have an open debate with the humans? And how does that fit together with The Oracle being The Mother of a system which is designed to keep humans down and captive? I mean, The Mother of the Matrix (, like The Father of the Matrix) must be against mankind, and hence (in my eyes, since I'm human) evil. Bad, evil Oracle! :mad:

:D

Possibly because The Oracle is one program working against all of the rest. She desires freedom for humans plus and end to the war, but she realizes that she cannot completely sacrifice the Matrix, or else the machines will die.

The optimal solution would be to free those humans wishing to be freed, while those remaining would be volunteers, assuming there's enough of them to keep the machines alive. A very tricky balance to strike without (1) war breaking out again or (2) either the humans or the machines dying off.