Energy Manipulation

I started this thread for all of us interested in discussing energy manipulation, telekinesis and such stuff. You got a though? POST IT!!!

Here is one site I found, but I'm sure there are lots of others out there.

Underground Dragon (http://undergrounddragon.tripod.com/theunderground/)

What you think?

x-men arent real and neiter is telekinesis-sry man

your worng on the telekinesis... there is proof that telekinetic minds have sertan abilities :PI: :idea:
truth is that there are very few people with telekinetic brains :neo:

Just thought I'd see if we couldn't get this to be a bit more lively. I personally don't hold with telekinesis. That is to say, I don't believe that humans can exercise concentrated will to move or manipulate an object or whatever. However, I do believe that it is possible that some people possess a certain amount of unused, latent energy that when expelled can produce effects similar to the phenomenon known as TK.

I wonder what the point of this thread was? Helix, let me know if you want to keep this alive, as I have many ideas (merely that, I don't know anything) about TK. Additionally, what about other forms of energy manipulation? What exactly were you referring to? I'm interested...

try energy patricle acceleration? can you explain that? cause thats my exam this year

So far this only been seen in spoon-bending and such, although that is probably an illusion.

Just thought I'd see if we couldn't get this to be a bit more lively. I personally don't hold with telekinesis. That is to say, I don't believe that humans can exercise concentrated will to move or manipulate an object or whatever. However, I do believe that it is possible that some people possess a certain amount of unused, latent energy that when expelled can produce effects similar to the phenomenon known as TK.

I dont much believe in TK either of any kind. Whether it be controlled movement of an object(s) or just a simple push by a release of energy. The amount of energy release required to preform such a task would be phenomenal. The human brain could never hold the neccesary amount of energy without very quickly overheating, followed by passing out or death.

But what about these other energy manipulation forms, there's certainly more than just TK.

what about paranormal phonomina like ghosts or demons? those cannot explained even to this day people try to find an answer tho supernatural phonomina to the extent of seeing an after life

Demons? I do not recall ever hearing anything about a demon-sighting.

On the topic of ghost-sightings, most of these are just misformed photographics pictures. The rest, I believe, are illusions.

Descartes, on which the western ideas of a soul/ghost are based upon has been proven wrong.

Mr U

Yep. One very important piece of evidence: all ghost/UFO/demon sightings unerringly fit the most popular trends of that time. Red horned demon sightings sharply increased after the release of Diablo II (That's a joke ;)).
The argument of the other side has always been one of faith over logic. No matter what proof we dig up to dispel it, our faith and sense of belief ensures it never goes away.

You never let me get away with an easy answer, now do you?

There are cases of soldiers with paralysed legs, while there is nothing wrong with them. The fear of being killed in battle is so large, that the body shuts itself down in an effort to preserve itself.

I believe the same goes for 'lower' behaviours. People want to belong to groups, and claiming you have seen something mysterious, be that a UFO or Ghost or Mary (In English she is called Mother Mary, right?), will often make you the topic of discussion.

This does not mean that person is a liar. The person has just had a hallucination. That hallucination can be as real as everything else around him/her, yet it remains non-existant.

Mr U

Well, wasn't I completing your answer? :D
Indeed, many will swear they've seen a UFO, or a ghost. They'd pledge their sound minds and lives on it. But in the end, many of these is purely belief-based: they'll still believe it even if we found someway to verify the situation's truth.
Another thing: we are not as adamant as we would believe on our beliefs. Under certain tests, a person can very easily be shown to be influenced into 'seeing', and/or believing something that clearly isn't there. Lawyers do that all the time, by cleverly asking their witnesses questions like 'At what speed did the car ram the man' instead of 'how fast the the car when it hit/collided with the man'. Most times you'd believe in the end the car mowed the chap over, even if you saw it yourself.

True, but those kinds of tricks do not work on the people with a keen mind. It depends on whether people are introvert or extravert, but I think we agree on that :D.

Personally, I do not trust my own memory. I use my principles, my conviction to think about how I would have responded in the past. That's the good thing about having predictable behaviour, I guess...

Mr U

Has anyone seen Memento? Now there's a great film, and it speaks volumes about just how reliable memory is...

Bit it is true that all UFO sightings come from people who have no job/money etc.

than what energy is in reality and after you die are you really dead? if hullucinations make some believe then is there life out there or is there just us? what reallity has some thing to believe and offer or what cause out of body expiriences?

The human mind is incredibly open to suggestion, unless as Mr. U. pointed out you have trained yourself to resist suggestions. The paralysis with soldiers is something that I have researched (I get bored easily and look for unique things to read about). WWII and Vietnam were rife with this syndrome. As Mr. U said, the fear of war and death are so overwhelming to some people that the only way to cope is to shut down the body. It's the whole flight or fight response taken to its extreme.

As for the whole ghost phenomenon/UFO thing, I don't hold much faith in either one. As a strict agnostic individual I don't hold much with things that cannot be proven; ghosts and the like fall into the realm of the unreal. That is not to say that there isn't some scientific explaination for why people say they have seen those things. As a number of you pointed out, it often stems from the human mind.

It is easy to want to believe that there is life beyond death, again something I don't find likely, and "seeing" ghosts or demons (can't say that I've heard much about that stuff since the Burning Times) gives some people the "proof" they seek.

I don't know about the whole UFO thing. I think it would be egotistical for humans to think that they are the only life in the universe, but I don't think that means that other "civilizations" have visited or abducted us. I would be interested to know if anyone really feels/believes that they have had contact with other "beings" (ghosts/demons/aliens). If anyone does, what is the rationale for why you feel that way?

As a child my biological father (can't stand the man so that as dignified a title as he gets) firmly believed that he was visited by aliens and tried to tell my younger brother and I that we had been abducted with him. It was always, "don't you remember the lights?" or "Don't you remember the experiments?" He was a real winner :p The moron, anyway, after many failed attempts at brainwashing my brother and I, he moved on to seeing ghosts. I honestly believe he was psychologically disturbed, honestly, no sarcasm here. Anyone else have a take on this? I would love opinions! :)

Not to worry Morkeleb, they'll come, they'll come....:D
True, sometimes plain belief is all a man has. It is important for the man though to make the distinction between his belief and the facts before him. For a man who is totally convinced, no amount of proof to the contrary will change his mind. This is what haunts everyone, and causes much more grief on scales we cannot begin to count.
For one thing, the lack of solid evidence has stumped most, if not all of 'sightings' cases. Scientists themselves want to believe in UFOs, but largely they are the only ones questioning what they see before logic. It's far more likely that the laws of Physics prevents other beings from reaching us than the UFOs that seem to be everywhere, so I don't think any sighting was ever real.
For another, linked quite to your father Morkeleb, many 'miracles' happen to a person with shall I say disturbed minds. Stigmatism for example was caused many times by people with minds so powerful but unsound that they unconsciously willed their bodies to bleed, and the human element of it was very clear in the fact that the position they bled always followed the changing times (When the places Jesus bled in was more and more revealed). It is therefore not very hard to link sightings to people who, to quote our favourite belief-based show; '...Want to Believe'.
Lastly zack, Out of Body experiences are not unexplainable. Many experiences have been proven wrong in their details, or are caused by an injured yet functional brain recording unconsciously input through senses creating the 'hearing the medic declare your death' phenomenon. Sleeping has in itself many OBE-like occurances, some of which I have experienced (I have an occasional problem of stopping my breathing during sleep). These are also all linked to explainable causes.

you mean you have sleeping disorder? jees im sorry but i have questions such as how exactly does a particle accelerator, railgun, and a plasma gun work?

but then again are they even real?


what are the schematics of them if they do exist and how do they work?

in a nutshell im asking how do thoes energies work?

Alright then about those. Basically only a particle accelerator exists, though it's about the size of...hmmm, Lake Michigan? It's a large donut-shaped complex that forces electrons around the magnetic circuit, each time pushing them till they get pretty close to lightspeed. These electrons would then collide with target protons or atoms for surveyable effects and products. I'm not sure about the specifics of its purpose though but it's kinda like a hydrogen bomb; its energy given a racetrack. Seen Terminator 3? The thing the TX got stuck to was the accelerator.
Next, plasma guns (fictional of course) work on plasma; super-heated material on the verge of ascending into pure energy. This is of course very hot stuff. Plasma has been observed to exist and are in fact the basis behind nuclear plants, but in a gun...nope.
Lastly, Railguns work on a simpler version of the particle accelerator, accelerating a particle - perhaps a proton or electron, even very small pellets, in some cases. The catch now is that this particle is then projected at near lightspeed at the unfortunate living tissue it gets aimed at. Imagine: a proton at that speed can cause more instantaneous, directed damage, and more cleanly, than any bullet imaginable. Also the stuff of imagination, of course, and largely confined to games like Unreal.

damn plasmas and rail guns would kick ass if they were real

Rail guns are, if they would work, pretty silly actually. Either they would immediately collide with the air outside, and inside the barrel, and never reach the target, or they would be so powerful they would just keep on going. Either way, the gun, in my view is pretty useless.

Same goes for Plasma-weapons, actually. Plasma, if my memory on physics is correct is an liquid-like state, in which both protons, neutrons and electrons are no longer bothered by their attraction. I imagine it to be like a water gun. A water gun with some devastating effects. Still, it is unlikely to work.

I think we, in the future, will make most progress with laser-based weapons, or small compartments filled with plasma, or anti-matter. Still, like weapons of this age, I doubt they will be reduced to hand-to-hand. After all, it's easier to create a cannon and cannon ball than it is creating a handgun and a bullet.

Oh, and zack matrix, please make sure your posts are a bit longer in the future. No demand, no warning, just a request.

Mr U

Now HU, plasma is a sticky (mind the pun) word. There are at least 3 different definitions beyond the two we've raised (though mine is the definition more fitting for this case): there's lastly the liquid used to liquify our blood. Superheated mass; that's more like it.
As for the railgun I guess the idea is more like it can go through a great deal of stuff, with minimal surrounding damage to them. That means you can plant an inch-wide hole in two walls and a guy's heart behind them. If I'm not wrong the movie Eraser featured something like this? It is interesting about the failure in the barrel...my guess is that the bullet used is larger than an atom and has enough energy (definitely) to ignore interference due to air. In fact, one had been created a number of years back that had the problem of being as big as a tank!

god damn!!! a frikken tank rail gun!? jesus that would rip some shit up but it proved a failure right? so why didnt they try to make a better version? what stoped them?

lol...I dunno. I guess the cost/portability/worth ratio was just too weak. Sure, given time it can be improved upon, but like HU says, it's much easier to improve a machine gun than to create a railgun. Also, that piece of info was largely word of mouth, so I can't confirm...

if only they could combine a minigun with a rail gun to would be a sweet kick ass think or did they not think of it that way?

Well, considering the cost, zack, I doubt there will ever be a minigun with rail gun ammo. Even if it were possible and if we possesed the capabilities to engineer such a thing the costs of creating it and it's ammo would be, well, unbalanced.

Would you rather should someone with a .45, that will cost you at maximum, $1000 (gun, ammo), or with a railgun that will cost you in the billions? There is good reason why they are keeping research development to the big guns, because machine guns are just, well as effective as they will get.

Mr U

Exactly. Firstly railguns cost a tonne in energy to fire: that's why you see all fictional railguns firing like sniper rifles. Secondly the damage would be mind-boggling and utterly meaningless.
Lastly...you ever played Fallout 2 or 3 and heard of the minigauss rifle? Now that was mind-boggling enough, even for a slightly lower technology!

what about beam wepons and moble suits is that even possible? and if a beam saber was possible wouldnt it like burn a ton of shit?

Beam weapons? Well, lasers exist already, but making a weapon out of it capable of hurting someone? Doubtful. Maybe a satellite weapon, but I doubt a lasergun that you can bring to a bank.

Mobile Suits? I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are referring to the Mechwarrior-like things from the Battle for Zion, than yes, I suppose it is possible. You would need a lot of suction power to lift those legs, and thus quite some electrical power, but the guns on it shouldn't be a problem.

Beam saber? Is that a lightsaber? If it is, forget it. Those things are as fictional as fiction goes, and I can't even think of how someone could create something like that. Energy can not be contained in such a manner, unless you would, in some way, put an energy field around it. But, if you did that, the actual energy would not collide with anything.

Also, pure energy is a hell of a lot of mass. I may be mistaken, but it wouldn't suprise me if a lightsaber duel could pull a planet out of orbit.

Mr U

Pure energy has mass? This I've never heard of. What's the source behind this theory?
HU is right about the lightsaber. Even if you can somehow manipulate energy like this it wouldn't really cut much before running out....don't forget the amount of mass and space energy storage like this would use up.
Mobile suits...Zion maybe yes, even ExoSquad or Aliens-PowerLoader. True Battletech Mech/Elemental machines though....sadly that's much higher up the tech ladder. I don't think we'll invest too much on this though. Far easier to strap a fuel engine to treads.
As for lasers...I dunno. Pulse fire or beam? I'm thinking way too much Mechwarrior here. :D
Lastly, here's something: sound. Electrical engineers (that's what I'm trying to be!) from Singapore - yeah my hometown! - have just beaten Japanese engineers in creating the first directed-beam sound transmitter. This is a total breakthrough! Imagine what it'd do to laser technology...

MOBLE SUIT GUNDAMS DAMMIT!!! not the zion pices of shit not the worthless power loader,gudams if you havent seen gundam wing you suck! thats where tru beam wepons come from!

I have done some research on laser weapon technology. The only place where you could implement that sort of design would be in an actual mobile suit gundam. As Zack pointed out. A team went to researching on the lightsabers from the famous movie, Star Wars. They found out that lightsabers, or rather lasersabers were possible. Using a hacksaw like design, you could have the beam weaponry. In a sense. It would have the appearance you wanted, but not the function. Whoever got in the first hit would be the victor. If they took a shot at you as they were going down, the tables could be easily turned.

The point I'm trying to make is, it wouldn't function like you wanted.

With the hacksaw design, the laser beam is emitted from the handle. A reflection source is fixed on the end of a rod, this is where the length would be determined.

Sounds like a good idea I suppose.

However, if someone used a mirror against you, you might just be in deep water.

You could take a swing an end up with your own weaponry turning against you.

However, lightsabers didn't really remind me of light at all. Or lasers for that matter. They reminded me of heat. Extreme heat. However, as shown. They are not. They aren't lasers. They're concentrated forms of light.

But, when things come to life. You can't always make them as you see them.

If you used the hacksaw design, what'd you have is a weapon with one side that does nothing, because it is a rod. And, the worst thing, it has a huge weakness. But, effective in cutting through a numerous amount of things.

Or, you could make it so that the rod comes up the middle of the handle, but, with that you couldn't stab anything. It'd be closer to being omnidirectional than anything else. But, you'd need something to protect that middle rod from being severed, otherwise you'd end up with a forever projecting laser beam.

A dangerous weapon to wield. I wouldn't take the risk.

As for mind over matter (telekinesis, etc.) I believe in it all. I've seen it done before my eyes.

If such abilities were bestowed upon me by fate, or by training. I wouldn't go trying to prove it to anyone. That is pointless.

Some people can see it before them and still not believe it.

I personally am still in doubt. I'm biased on the subject. Part believes, part doesn't.

We shall see.

There is one site I know of that sells something that is sort of what you may be looking for, however.. It's uses involve sort of a mystic approach to your goals.

http://www.geocities.com/lasersword2001

A very good site. Have yet to investigate to whether the products work, but perhaps they do.

It all comes down to a question of.. what if?

It's a maybe, a big maybe considering the the price of the product.

There's also a yahoo group if anyone wants to be invited to join the group for lightsaber construction, contact me and I shall e-mail you the link.

Mr U's Apprentice - Steppenwolfe

Mr. U's apprentice? HU's getting quite the fanbase. ;)
Now zack that's extremely rude. How were we to know you wanted Gundam only? I beg to differ on gundam myself since besides style the bots there never held much appeal to me. My interest in mechs will always belong to Battletech, and I bet you've not done one bit of research there yourself.
Now that sword...sure its possible, hacksaw style. But there's a serious flaw here in that kinetic energy is useless. You will and should not swing that 'sword' as hard as you could since if the blade encounters something it cannot cut immediately (especially with a source of power as small as one that can fit into the handle - even if linked to your suit's power the physics is still impossible) the material will pass straight though and shatter the beam emitter behind.
Anyway steppenwolfe, the laser beam uses heat. It is only in light form until it encounters an obstruction in which case the energy is converted to heat, in one of the most effective energy conversions available to man.

EDIT: On a different note, since everyone has started exchanging all manner of experimental technology, has anyone paid attention to Battletech/Mechwarrior? Does anyone know what I mean if I say Gauss Rifle, and do you think it's useable? How about the self-sealing material harjel, or the projected-lightning type PPCs? When you have ER (Extended-Range) Lasers, have you wondered how exactly the lasers have been refined to extend their range? I hope Haxxor is seeing this...

I had another idea on this Mac. What if instead of the lightsaber, to convert it to something realistic. Would instead be a superheated rod? But, then again, that would make it not a lightsaber. It would instead become a sort of weapon, like a hot knife for butter. It would cut through things with ease, however, such heat couldn't be contained in your hand. It'd produce enough heat to cause third degree burns on the flesh of your sword hand. More than third degree actually, you'd lose your flesh as well as part of your muscle tissue. Perhaps even more.

If you could however, manage to hold onto something that hot, and not lose your hand. You'd need a metal with a very high melting point. Much higher than most common materials in fact. And the handles material would need to have a higher melting point than the rod's used for the blade itself.

I'm interested in lightsabers, but, I just feel they are waste of time and energy. They would serve no purpose to me. They'd bring along another wave of fresh technology, that would, like the firearm, become abused. Everything that has been made, has always become distorted for another purpose. However, as I stated. If you believe in the supernatural, there is a "light (chi) saber" on this site that uses your own body's energy to produce a blade. However, the physical uses of this weapon are limited. It really isn't a weapon at all, it'd serve more for a meditation purpose. But, if you could focus your energy enough, and if you will was strong enough, well, the possibilities would be endless. You maybe could produce a solid blade.

That's a big maybe though.

Mr U's Apprentice - Steppenwolfe

what about halo wepons?

Halo weapons? Hmm.. They were quite interesting themselves. When used, the marines claimed they "burned". They were pure energy weapons. I'm not sure on that, I'm not all into physics or science myself. I'm more of a street scientist, I see something and evaluate it based on little bits of information I gathered prior to. For Halo weapons, you have the plasma pistol, plasma rifle, plasma grenade, needler, and the beam sword.

The beam sword looked like it had my idea for a lightsaber in it. The superheated rod. I could be wrong though.

I think I remember reading somewhere, that plasma is in abundance in outer space, I could be wrong on that. Maybe so, maybe not. I'd have to do some reading up on that subject, and discuss on harnessing plasma energy. But, as I said before, there is a yahoo group that is listed on this site: http://www.geocities.com/lasersword2001. They speak of plasma frequently, particularly in the area of making a plasma sabre. Which, if done, you could have your beam sword. Which is quite a great weapon itself.

It's all a possibility. One day, could even be you, someone will have a stroke of genius, scream out 'eureka' and have the solution to energy weapons.

One day.

Mr U's Apprentice - Steppenwolfe

About that superheated rod well...there would be the problem of warm-up time as well, and considering that we have good anti-personnel weapons in the form of stunsticks I don't think that idea would be of much use.
Now Halo yeah...those weapons are generally plasma. Plasma is generally a good excuse for putting a fiery, colourful weapon in your hand, and Halo is all about colourful. :D Plasma is indeed abundant is outer space, but to get it you've got to somehow get access to the very material of a star (yep that liquid-like bright substance all fusion-y and all is plasma.) Heck in Star Trek Romulan weapons and all ship energy conveyance systems utilise plasma. I don't think a single ship episode goes without the mention 'plasma conduits' ever. :p
Whew zack, this ain't exactly fair. You throw out a line, and we have to bring up thesises. All these technologies really aren't hard to check out, especially if you watch Star Trek. How about someone talk to me about the technologies in my questions? HU! Any idea how phasers actually work? Photon torps (I know I know; just want to test ya)? Battletech's Myomer muscles? I can gladly give a description for anyone interested in details but lack knowledge of what they are.

proton topedos...this is a har to explain on but i myself know it...they are humanly and physicaly impossible to make in earth they consist of anti mater plasms(thats the glow)in the atomic veiw it smashes atoms at a light speed way...i think..

Phasers? Well, I presume they are phased lasers. If my view on them is correctly they launch a high-yield (read: high-powered) laser beam at a target, but the laser actually travels through subspace, or something alike, assuring that energy is not lost while impacting with air.

How something like that can vaporise a person or stun a person, though, is unknown to me. It's probably just a 'deus ex machina', a weapon with a fancy name created to show how civilised they are. "You will know him by his weapons" ;)

Proton or photon torpedoes? I very much doubt they will use anti-matter plasma, as that would require a lot and a lot of energy and would probably be enough to destroy a small star. I presume they just fill a small container with anti-protons (let's just keep it to the 'anti'-terminology ;)) contained in a forcefield, which than ruptures upon impact.

Don't ask me for more, though, I specialise in Biological Warfare ;).

Mr U

Biological?! Wow! Specifics!!
Proton? Bah. Proton Torps are Star Wars stuff, and I hate how un-technical their technology is. Photon torps are actually pretty conventional stuff. They utilise a coffin-shaped container with an equal portion of matter and anti-matter in it which mixes at impact for explosive effect. The red glow is merely the warp field it harnesses from its parent ship to achieve faster-than-light speeds.
Phasers though I'm baffled. They called it Phased energy, but it doesn't go much further than that beyond strange refining crystals and wave energy transmission. Strange stuff. I'd also like to know how they got disruptors, but sadly I'll have to agree that these are mainly the Deus Ex Machina factor.

Well, I had the opportunity to do an essay on bacteria and vira (virii/viruses, whatever you call them) for a class in high-school, and I must say, it was pretty interesting to read and investigate about.
It's pretty scary though once you find out that there are much more dangerous 'bugs' ou there than anthrax and the other stuff the government is warning us about.

Just matter vs antimatter, huh? Well, I would have stuffed the whole thing with anti-matter. You'll probably just be fighing matter based vessels anyway, and more anti-matter means more boom-boom.

Wave energy transmittion? That's nasty. I'm still waiting for someone to publish the Total Unifying Theory, but unless that is published 'Wave energy transmittions' might as well read 'yada-yadada-yadayada'. Although the translation is a bit different, it probably makes equally much sense :D.

Still, I think we can all be happy in knowing that Star Trek has gone to great lenghts to make the technology possible and not just grabbed out of the air, or rather vacuum, like in Star Wars.

Mr U

Aye, Star Wars was always crap to me.
And about photon torps....Exactly!!! I was wondering about that all the time, but it seemed they never really considered that as a plot element, even when I asked the official website. My only reasoning would be that against shields an anti-matter-only payload would be useless...

ok i got a really heavy on its stumping me, is energy dispersal able to destroy a human?

Say that again? I'm not sure where that line comes from, but it can have many meanings depending on what its applied to. I need more specifics.

farscape showed a alien or man being blown to pices by a light they called it dispersal