Extra Proof, RE Zion

Attention movie fans.

I have some technical inaccuracies with the theories on this site regarding Matrix the second, which I am sure you will enjoy discussing:

Firstly, as you are sick of hearing Neo halts the Sentinels in the apparent ‘real world’. Totally impossible, unless he is perhaps not in the real world but still within a programme some of you will remember as – The Matrix.

Secondly and more importantly, how does Smith (a computer programme) enter Zion (the ‘real world’)? I don’t know about you, but I have never experienced The Super Mario Brothers planning revenge attacks on me after I have humiliated those characters in the greatest game of all time – Mario Kart.

If Zion is reality, how can these two events occur?

Answer:

Zion is the part of the Matrix or another layer of it!

Oh loneliness and cheeseburgers are a dangerous mix!

Well, I agree with your first point, it's the most plausible explanation.

As amusing as I found your second proof (Mario reference), it's false. If you can have your brain altered to append info like drunken fighting, hotwiring a motorcycle, fly a heli - then it's not a far stretch to believe that someone could OVERRIGHT (instead of append) info to a brain thereby wiping a personality with another.

Nice try though!
-WC-

Off the point a bit... but Mario Kart is the greatest game ever.

When you said Smith goes into Zion, do you mean in Bane? I'm not sure how Smith can copy himself onto 'software' that is no longer connected to the matrix, unless it's something to do with Smith being 'free' himself............
I have no idea the answer to your question......but I'm sure someone out there will.

Smith copied himself onto Bane just the same as Neo learned how to fight.

Neo was unplugged, but that info was forced onto his brain - granted with his permission.

What part of that doesn't make sense to you? It's an integral part of understanding a good handful of scenes in M2.

-wC-

I was highly intrigued by your response, but Wildcard, it actually reinforces my point that Zion is just another part of the overall Matrix and not real. As you say if we are believe that information can be altered on a persons brain, such as Kung Fu ability, full knowledge of flying helicopters and so forth then it is easy enough to also believe that a persons whole brain can be overwritten with another’s personality. Of course it is, but only within the perimeters of operation while still connected to the Matrix or a training programme of similar nature (as we viewed in Matrix the first). So in other words, the knowledge learnt is artificial, it only is of use within the software programme that it was learnt in, and not in the outside real world. So Smith could only copy himself to another who is within the Matrix i.e. Bane.

Regarding your second point, I don’t recall Neo fighting or performing any other of his Matrix learnt abilities at any other time but within the Matrix, so to conclude I am, that once unplugged, he is still as before (skill-wise in the real world).

Truth, in a bid not bore you, repeat myself I will not, I assume my response to WC will also act as an explanation of satisfaction to yourself. Indeed, Mario Kart truly is of godlike status.

Thankyou Zeaus, although maybe we should call you Yoda? You are right, it does make sense to me now. I just get confused reading and replying to so many threads simultaneously.

Truth, I am glad that we are in agreement. Yes, complicated a task it is, reading and responding to all the information on this site

when has neo had to use his "downloaded" knowledge like the kung fu and so forth ni the real world? i think that that will come into play in M3 bane is on the same ship as neo now.
also when smith copyed over bane i feel it is just like downloading all the skills. he was in the matrix and had his brian pluged in (i wish learning something was that easy) as they said in M1 the body cant live with out the mind, and the machines live off the thermoenergy from the people in the pods. so when smith copyed into bane banes mind got shoved to the side ( like a split personality i guess) or completly over ridden and smith clones, i dont want to say programing but is about as close to the wording i can get, or ideas, morals or the like mow dominate banes mind. smith wants neo dead because neo is the only one who can oppose him, if smith has found a way to do it in the real world and in the matrix....
just a thought, and i dont like the matrix in the matrix theroy.:p

An interesting idea Cnorec, and it fleshes out WC's earlier point better too. If, in Matrix the third, it proves correct, we shall have to see. However, if so, it also raises the question of whether the characters could still be considered fully human, if their real world skills can be updated by loading software into their brains, are they not now part machine, the enemy? Then it would be safe to say other programmes could copy into the brain of humans,like Smith to Bane, and interact in the real world too...Who then is still fully human?

also can anyone tell us exactly what neo said when he described smith trying to over ride / clone him? this could also help clear some things up.

Trinity asked what Smith was doing, and Neo said he didn't know. He only knew what it felt like. Trinity asked what. Neo said it felt like being back in that hall again, it felt like dying.
Not exact, but hope it helps.

well, Zeaus - you have made me think and that is not a good thing! believe me. But I have a few thoughts (for what they are worth) of my own.

1. How can Smith live in a 'human' body which is NOT connected to the matrix - unless the 'real world' is in fact 'the matrix'!!! This I don not understand. Surely Bane would be dead - ie his body would be dead if he nolonger exists? How did Smith travel (in Banes body) from the Matrix and back into Zion!

2. What the f**ck was the arch. going on about

3. What does the oracle mean when she says things like Neo has already made his choice he just doesn't know it yet - this makes me think that indeed the 'real world' is not in fact real at all????? Also she (and the arch) go on about choice - but she says he already pre-made his choices (in the future) so therefore he (and all humans) DONT have any choice - they are just made to believe they have choices when really all they are doing is living out a pre-determined life.

Any thoughts?

smith copied himself into bane (poor fool) and when he answered the phone, smiths mental thinking entered banes mind.

bane is possesed by agent smith

Glass - I have to disagree.

If smith is a computer programme then how can he exist outside that programme ie. the matrix.??? This I cannot understand. In the movie they must enter the matix to see the oracle (who is also a programme- just like smith) - she cannot come out of the matrix! How then can smith come out? Surely he must be connected to the matrix to survive!!!

I have a theory. In the first movie at the end Neo enters Smith and then destroys him. In no 2 smith makes a reference to neo that he changed him - he did something to him that he cannot explain - that has now set him free! Perhaps when Neo entered Smith their 'structures' somehow merged - thus giving Smith the ability to enter the human world and also giving neo the super powers he has in the matrix....and ultimately being the only human with the pwers to stand up to the agents and in particular the now copied smiths. I just thought of something. What if when their structures/beings merged this gave Neo his ability to 'feel' the sentinals and therefore destroy them at the end of the second movie - he himself is part 'computer/machine' now....this is why he is the ONE!

Oh God - if we are to keep going on about this we will go mad. It's only a movie after all...but it's fun!

LATER

wens neo uploads programs as he did in M1 he "knows kung fu" i think when smith over copied bane this same theroy applies. smith wants neo dead because he is the only one that can post a chalange to him. so when he copied over bane his wishes, or goals got inplanted into banes mind. i guess like subliminal messages.
with neo he can dodge bullest fly ext... because he knows the matrix is not real. a quote from morpheous and neo, "neo: what are you saying? i can dodge bullets? morpheous: no, when you are ready you wont have to" and when neo was ready he stoped the bullets with a wave of his hand.
and last but not least smith did not give neo the powers, but when neo jumped into smith at the end of M1 neos code changed smiths lock i guess. let him become "free". and smith told morpheous that he is tired of the matrix, of the human stink. he does not want to be reset again, and when he relized what happen when no jumped into him he went renaged.

the agents could kill from inside out-- vis a vis unplugging brains

smith copied a skill from neo in m1...
i think that skill is, a way to write a program onto an human mind.. neo is half program half human... if any of the people that smith copied himself to would be freed they would be half man half program.. human with the programmed mind of smith..

that is also how neo stopped the sentinals, he is one of them.. one of the machines.. the sentinals just pulled their emergency breaks and shut themsef off....

matrix in a matrix is stupid.. people in zion are people that would reject the system..

mad

Madhjis, your right, MIAM is a simple explanation of what we cannot explain yet, but believe me when i say it's not the solution to this puzzle.