The CONTINUING Matrix - WHY

I believe the Matrix will continue after M3 (Revolutions) for one simple reason: A human being cannot be simply unplugged from the Matrix. A human being must AWAKEN from the Matrix on his or her own. It's our CHOICE as individuals.

This requirement for the individual to awaken from the Matrix means that the Matrix cannot just be shut down by Neo and Zion. Even if Zion wins out over the Machines (it will), there are still billions (?) to awaken in the Matrix. That's going to take time.

NOW WE CAN UNDERSTAND NEO'S SPEECH AT THE END OF M1, WHICH HAS BEEN SUGGESTED ELSEWHERE (link below) AS ALSO BEING THE END OF M3:

Neo: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

In other words, this speech from the end of M1 is in fact the end of the entire trilogy, the end of M3. Neo now knows that humanity NEEDS the Machines, and we see him here speaking compassionately to them, GIVING THEM A CHOICE! If they want war, if they resist the liberation of the enslaved podders, war will continue. But there is a higher goal attainable. Symbiosis is this ultimate goal. The optimal relationship between human and machine is synergistic, a harmony elevating both ending in greater awareness and higher consciousness. Evolutionary advancement.

Are we ourselves in the midst of a quantum leap in our own evolution, a mutation catalyzed by the technology we ourselves are creating? Are the WBros showing us THE CHOICE that is indeed before us? Yet again I marvel at this story, and their genius.

Credit to MRM for the thread, (HUGE SPOILER) Neo's phone call in the Matrix is at THE END of Revolutions!, http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3393

Wow, what a great thread!! It's always nice to read some sense now and then.
I think too that we as humans have to choose whether we want to control machines or that we live in harmony with machines. It's true that nowadays we are to dependent on machines. It looks like we control them but we are really growing more and more addicted to them. We need machines for all sorts of work and it's getting worse by the minute. We have to realize that we are the only ones how can live our lifes. But here you can see that most people are not aware of their own ability to create destiny.
Live your life, don't let it live.

Originally posted by DarkDerk
I think too that we as humans have to choose whether we want to control machines or that we live in harmony with machines.Is it really an either/or? Maybe in the distant future, after machines exhibit human-level consciousness, but in the near term we have no choice but to control them. They're currently unable to control themselves.

Originally posted by DarkDerk
It's true that nowadays we are too dependent on machines. It looks like we control them but we are really growing more and more addicted to them. We need machines for all sorts of work and it's getting worse by the minute. But this is what symbiosis is all about, interdependence. It should not be cast as a bad thing, a problem. Addiction is probably not a good metaphor. We're going to become increasingly dependent on machines and that is a good thing (so long as the power stays on;)).

The real issue as far as the movie goes is how much respect we give the machines once AI becomes a reality.

Thanks for posting, and your kind words:).

Originally posted by Eschamo


The real issue as far as the movie goes is how much respect we give the machines once AI becomes a reality.



Yes, after watching the Animatrix your opinion of the machines will soften immediately. There are also very subtle clues in M2 that suggest a co-dependant existance between humans and machines. I believe the Oracle had spoken of it.

I agree with the fact that if AI is created we should respect it.
You also say that in the near term we have no choice but to control machines because they can't do it themselves. That's very true but I think that this is also the problem: do we really control them?? There are a lot of people who can't live without their television because they are too dependent. I think that's not a good thing. I believe that we can reach this symbiosis between humans and machines (AI). But do we NEED them?? In the end they are here just for comfort. If you take an empty world and you populate it with humans, and no machines, then we will be able to survive.

being addicted to a machine like a computer or television isn't any form of interdependence.... if you depend on something that requires nothing of you, then there is no interdependent relationship

Originally posted by DarkDerk
I agree with the fact that if AI is created we should respect it.
You also say that in the near term we have no choice but to control machines because they can't do it themselves. That's very true but I think that this is also the problem: do we really control them?? There are a lot of people who can't live without their television because they are too dependent. I think that's not a good thing. I believe that we can reach this symbiosis between humans and machines (AI). But do we NEED them?? In the end they are here just for comfort. If you take an empty world and you populate it with humans, and no machines, then we will be able to survive. Television is not currently interactive, so please leave it out of what I'm about to say. The human-AI symbiosis I'm referring to is going to elevate us to a new level of consciousness, a new level of evolution. We will depend on (NEED) these intelligent machines to maintain this new state, and they will depend on (NEED) us for their existence.

Originally posted by Eschamo
Television is not currently interactive, so please leave it out of what I'm about to say. The human-AI symbiosis I'm referring to is going to elevate us to a new level of consciousness, a new level of evolution. We will depend on (NEED) these intelligent machines to maintain this new state, and they will depend on (NEED) us for their existence.


Press the red button means nothing then? :p

I guess that the only people who will understand that joke live in the UK

actualli, come to think of it... the machine race has had been merciful enough to the human race for a substantially long period. Why do i say this? Because even after hundreds of years they have continued to rely on the human race to provide the power to sustain their existence (hence the existence of the matrix).

If we examine further the relationship between the humans and the machines, there is an interesting fact to ponder upon - why in the Second Renaissance, when the machines sent two diplomats to the UN in search of peace for the sake of Zero One (the only machine country at that point of time), did the humans attacked them and took them apart? Is this not the fault of the human race.

Hehe in some ways i think the humans deserve this. But on a more important point, I think that having the Matrix was a good idea for both man and machine. For machine, the energy supply. For humankind, it created the world at the peak of civilization, or should i say, better than the matrix itself.In a way, the freedom fighters are just wasting their time trying to win the battle, when they could just sit happily and peacefully in the matrix!!

Unless the phone call from Neo in M1 means that he wants the machines and humans to live in peace together, to end the war amiably, the humans are just being selfish in eradicating the machine race in their fight to destroy the Matrix and the Source!

That too, if they can. Like their predecessors, they are only interested in their own existence rather than work towards peace. Pls reply to tell me what you think... ;)

No offense or anything, but your respect for the machines is flawed.

We created them. We are their master. They have to respect us for the life we gave them, not the other way around.


What happens when we rebel against our supposed creator? We go to hell. Why should it be any different for the robots?


In essence, the machines have enslaved their god.

Originally posted by archangel689
No offense or anything, but your respect for the machines is flawed.

We created them. We are their master. They have to respect us for the life we gave them, not the other way around.


What happens when we rebel against our supposed creator? We go to hell. Why should it be any different for the robots?


In essence, the machines have enslaved their god. It's this kind of spurious rationalization of superiority that leads to the justification of brutality and violence. Consciousness is consciousness and should be respected as such.

The Machines didn't rebel against their creators until their creators became oppressive, no doubt using a rationale similar to the one you present here.

Originally posted by StUdMeIsTeR
actualli, come to think of it... the machine race has had been merciful enough to the human race for a substantially long period. Why do i say this? Because even after hundreds of years they have continued to rely on the human race to provide the power to sustain their existence (hence the existence of the matrix).
Enslavement is never merciful.

Originally posted by StUdMeIsTeR
If we examine further the relationship between the humans and the machines, there is an interesting fact to ponder upon - why in the Second Renaissance, when the machines sent two diplomats to the UN in search of peace for the sake of Zero One (the only machine country at that point of time), did the humans attacked them and took them apart? Is this not the fault of the human race.Of course it is. We're monsters unless we can somehow outgrow the beast within us. That's what Neo is all about.

Originally posted by Eschamo
Television is not currently interactive, so please leave it out of what I'm about to say. The human-AI symbiosis I'm referring to is going to elevate us to a new level of consciousness, a new level of evolution. We will depend on (NEED) these intelligent machines to maintain this new state, and they will depend on (NEED) us for their existence.

Okay, sorry about the television, that thing isn't really intelligent :o .
I don't think that we need AI to elevate to a higher level of consciousness. We can get higher by ourselfs (and I'm not talking about drugs here). There have been lots of people who became more conscious just by thinking or meditating. I am practicing martial arts (Aikido) now for over half a year and it really makes you more aware of yourself. I've noticed this in the past few months. And I did this without machines.

Think of how many people have peripheral vision, and don't use it.

Why can't you bench press 500 lbs?

The reason why a human isnt equiped with hawkeye vision, or other facilities is because they don't require them, or havent trained them. Do you know how little of your brain you suposedly utilize?

The average human uses about ten percent of the brain.

Originally posted by DarkDerk
I don't think that we need AI to elevate to a higher level of consciousness. We can get higher by ourselfs (and I'm not talking about drugs here). There have been lots of people who became more conscious just by thinking or meditating. I am practicing martial arts (Aikido) now for over half a year and it really makes you more aware of yourself. I've noticed this in the past few months. And I did this without machines. Meditation in and of itself will not lead to an evolutionary mutation ala Neo. If that were true Tibet would now rule the world. However, integrating machine intelligence with our own will continue to change us, neurologically enhance us, leading to abilities that have heretofore been regarded as superhuman. Imagine an ubiquitous wireless Internet under thought control, something currently in development, http://www.arpa.mil/dso/thrust/biosci/brainmi.htm, and you'll see what I'm getting at here.

Originally posted by Eschamo
Meditation in and of itself will not lead to an evolutionary mutation ala Neo. If that were true Tibet would now rule the world. However, integrating machine intelligence with our own will continue to change us, neurologically enhance us, leading to abilities that have heretofore been regarded as superhuman. Imagine an ubiquitous wireless Internet under thought control, something currently in development, http://www.arpa.mil/dso/thrust/biosci/brainmi.htm, and you'll see what I'm getting at here.

First off, I believe (or even know) that by stimulating parts of the brain that we don't use, we can do stuff that we can't even dream of doing on our own. But I also believe that we can acces these parts on our own, without machines. The argument about Tibet being the ruler of the world isn't relevant in my opinion because once your on a much higher level you don't desire to rule/own/control anymore. I think this is because of the ego's you let go when you ascend into a higher being. Read the post by Rumi: mr. Anderson is dead, now Neo must die... By the way, the USA wouldn't accept Tibet as a country/state ruling or leading the world because of there search for might. They won't accept another country to be more powerful then they are.

Originally posted by DarkDerk
First off, I believe (or even know) that by stimulating parts of the brain that we don't use, we can do stuff that we can't even dream of doing on our own. But I also believe that we can acces these parts on our own, without machines. For example?

Originally posted by DarkDerk
The argument about Tibet being the ruler of the world isn't relevant in my opinion because once your on a much higher level you don't desire to rule/own/control anymore. I think this is because of the ego's you let go when you ascend into a higher being. Read the post by Rumi: mr. Anderson is dead, now Neo must die... By the way, the USA wouldn't accept Tibet as a country/state ruling or leading the world because of there search for might. They won't accept another country to be more powerful then they are. Desire or not, superiority has economic consequences which end in power. Substitute the word 'lead' for 'rule' if you like.