The Matrix has you...

Enigma101

I'm glad someone brought this up.

I have been doing a lot of thinking on this.

I like the theory of the W Bros. preparing to free our mind.

Something to think about:
The human mind is constantly searching to learn and explore new things. This would require us to put out a great amount of energy.
There have always been something out there to explore. Take for intance, medicine and biology. We are always finding new diseases and cures. Take religion. Humans have spent a lot of time researching whether the Bible is true. Take the universe. We have spent a great amount on exploring it and wondering about it.
All of these things have limitless discoveries.
Medicine: New diseases, Ebola, AIDS, SARS, cancer. And we can't cure the common cold.

Religion: There really is no proof that anything in the Bible existed. We can't find the ark, or other Holy artifacts. There is only speculation on the existance of Christ.

Universe: Why is it so big? We may never get to the end of it. We surely will never answer all the questions about it and how everything started.

These a just a tiny amount of the things that we may never have answers for. Don't you think that the machines could have created all of this to keep us occupied as well as make us create a ton of energy just thinking about it.

About the movies, just another thing to make us wonder, thus create more energy.

I could have gotten into a whole lot more, but I think you get the idea.

I know you have a few of your own.

We (as humans) like to think!

gsxrneo1

SIGHT is right, the Matrix trilogy is all about symbolism. You think the Wachowski Bros. just thought this up one day?? No way! The greatest movie ideas come from things that are already happening and taking those things and bending its truth a little bit. Thats what the matix is all about.

Mind Eraser

i have a question?... how does religion play a factor in the Matrix

i just wonder or is it just to keep us busy, this may be off topic but

i thought it would be a good question.

thanks

Senai

Originally posted by Truth
Oooo.....what a cool idea! But how would they manage to get it played in the Matrix- surely the machines wouldn't let them!

It'd be after the war, right? After the humans won or whatever. They'd still have to explain everything and go through the process of unplugging billions of people.

C@ndyFl!p

Hahahaha okay, thats taking things a liiiittle bit too far 8)

Please... someone tell me they are joking 8)

Disclaimer: The typer of this message has no problem with whatever people choose to believe. He just doesn't believe the same thing.

SIGHT

Mind Eraser i have a question?... how does religion play a factor in the Matrix

religion is based on the belief that there is a truth, a better way of living after this one on earth, an Almighty force that is the essence of everything natural, and when you are aware of that Force, you start to see things in this life differently, it is like waking up from the matrix in a way. however, my belief is that religion is a problem here, it has people's heads all twisted. Truth, Love, the Almighty, now that is the essence, religion is man made, just like the machines.

SIGHT

The human mind is constantly searching to learn and explore new things. This would require us to put out a great amount of energy. There have always been something out there to explore. Take for intance, medicine and biology. We are always finding new diseases and cures. Take religion. Humans have spent a lot of time researching whether the Bible is true. Take the universe. We have spent a great amount on exploring it and wondering about it.
All of these things have limitless discoveries.

Enigma101, this is true. do you know that the ancient egyptians had all this figured out. medicine, mathematics, astrology, "religion", they had the answers, and they were stolen and kept secret from the masses. many members of the masonic religion know what im speeking on, they study many of the secrets that were stolen from the egyptians. but only parts of it is given to the masses to preoccupy them with searching and perhaps looking in the wrong places. all in all, the truth is with in us all, just gotta know where to look how to listen and understand. the human race has a god complex, wants to know everything, do everything, have the answer for everything. it may prove to be our downfall. see, some things just arent for us to know, understand, do or question.

Truth

Sight, I have to say, you opinion puzzles me. It seems to me as if you are almost one of the controlled masses in'1984'. Why should we not want to explore our world?

kain

truth there is some truth in your imagination
and of the imagination in your truth

you are ready to play you everything
I have done, and I am not afraid say it

and I have also found the answers that I looked for
I think about knowing the truth

if you want.......
write me lordkain@libero.it

all have to know

kain

Jbox

I think yall all have gone over the edge........................ ITS JUST A MOVIE. And concerning the religion thing. Religion was there before the machines created the matrix.They didnt create the different religions. This is seen in the Animatrix: Second Rennassance part 2. Before the humans go into battle with the machines they pray. They have a guy dressed like Jesus pushing a TV around with an evangilist Preaching on the TV. They show a bunch of different religions before they go in to battle. Remember the Matrix is the same as the world was in the Real world.

HomoUniversalis

If this truly is the matrix.. Anyone who is sceptical about this theory could be the Archtiect, trying to control us.. However why would the Architect allow these things to happen? Surely he can make sure no one gets to see the movie.. Anyway, it is just a move. And if this is the Matrix... Enjoy it. Live like there is no tomorrow, before it is too late and some guys in leather take you to the real world... a world where they live in the sewers of a once powerfull society as if they were rats...

SIGHT

Sight, I have to say, you opinion puzzles me. It seems to me as if you are almost one of the controlled masses in'1984'. Why should we not want to explore our world?

why is it puzzling? i seem like one of the controlled masses? well, we all are because we are part of the system of things. however, i am not blind to the fact that they are trying to control my thoughts which puts me ahead of most "blind" people, which are the ones im really speeking on. my point which i guess you didnt get, or maybe wasnt clear, is that one must search themselves before they search the solar system, science, etc. one must look in to look out. understanding your essence will open up worlds, which in most cases makes most things on this earth trivial. that which you thought was important, will become unimportant in the blink of an eye. i just think the human race wastes too much time on moving to the next level when we haven't even finished the last one. its like going up a ladder and skipping stepps. sure you might make it up for a while, but sooner or later, you'll slip and fall. thats most humans to me. however i will firmly plant both feet on each step and make sure i am balance before i move to the next level. in the process i will break away from the control of the system homie.

SIGHT

Sight, I have to say, you opinion puzzles me. It seems to me as if you are almost one of the controlled masses in'1984'. Why should we not want to explore our world?

o, and what does 1984 have to do with anything?

Truth

LOL- I was reading it at the time, and it just came to mind.

Okay, Sight, you make a fair point, and I didn't get your meaning. I thought you meant that we should just stop looking for answers altogether, and just be content with what we know, which I think you will agree, is ridiculous.

So, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend, but that's what it sounded like.

And you're right, the answers are within ourselves, we just have to concentrate and look for them.

SIGHT

TRUTH,

no offense taken. let me pose a senario to you tho, based on something you said. you say being content with what we know would be rediculous right. im assuming you mean this in terms of everything in the world. and here in the u.s. we are most absorbed with forms technology. i believe it will the the advancements of different forms of technologies that could destroy us. think about it. why do we die(or flesh at least) because our cells mutate over time(change) making us "old" if our cells always stayed the same, we would live forever. like agent smith said in matrix one, animals adapt to their surroundings, forma balance with natrue. for that reason they would always survive, we dont, we change our surroundings to match what we want, tear everything down, over populate and move. the human race seeking answers is leading ourselves into eventual extinction. so, i would have been content with building my own home, cultivating my own land, starting a family and hearding my sheep 5000 years ago, or whenever man first was. bet the air would be fresher, the water cleaner, the food not genetically altered, no manmade clock to live by, just father time. aaah the good ol days.

MatrixHack1

Originally posted by Enigma101

Religion: There really is no proof that anything in the Bible existed. We can't find the ark, or other Holy artifacts. There is only speculation on the existance of Christ.

Universe: Why is it so big? We may never get to the end of it. We surely will never answer all the questions about it and how everything started.

These a just a tiny amount of the things that we may never have answers for. Don't you think that the machines could have created all of this to keep us occupied as well as make us create a ton of energy just thinking about it.

About the movies, just another thing to make us wonder, thus create more energy.

im adding on to what sight said. I felt like i have got that feeling before. that when i think about something that strange like universe and all of these mathmatical equations, my head hurts and theres something in my brain though that clicks wrong and i feel it and its the same feeling when your trying to remember something .. whether its a persons name or a dream, when you get so close and you know it... its on the tip of your tongue but you cant get it out. i think thats what the matrix is about too.

Let's think about the universe once more- Its so big (they say) Well they also say it is expanding. But put that information into MORE thinking. What does the universe actually expand into.

And with the bible. Could it actually be possible that this could be the Agents track of what is suppose to happen in the world. This could be even someones sick joke from ancient times most people live by today.

just think about all these things- and we will unlock the answers not to the universe...but THE MATRIX itself.

leo_one

I'v been thinking for a while now, I came to the following conclusions

1. People has 3 components : body, mind and soul (not that I'm the first one to say it, the've been saying it since Aristoteles, Socrates or one of those guys I think)
2. The odds of being in a matrix as is told in the movie are very very very (enough very's ) small I don't see a bunch of "machines" with the idea of controlling, battery, etc.
3. I do see a little analogy between our soul and the mind in the matrix, the soul is not something that we will truly understand until the day we die, therefore heaven as we understand it is like the "Real World", not where an evil architect wants to control everything but where our soul is finally able to realize a lot of things, we use 10% (could be 100% if you're sceptic about this) of our brain? then who are we without a body (read brain, eyes, ear, skin, ...) what things do we perceive? the more easy to say, not necesarly to understand Love. Just don't prepare you're luggage just jet, it is my belive that if you're not able to understand it here you won't understand it there, or it would take a lot of time, anyway remember time is a measure of things moving, without physical movement there is no time. Ok fellas, follow the white rabbit, it's all about peace, I've been there, it's just difficult to stay, remember body, mind and soul.

MatrixHack1

actually guys. the w. brothers said they thought they got this idea from aliens and then they made the movie. i think that is really true though because in M2 they tell you the programs that arent doing there job is the things you hear about like ghosts, UFO's, ALIENS... get it?

so of course. the "aliens" maybe werent doing there job and they accidently send this information..

who knows..

BackDoor

I believe in the concept of The Matrix.
A single identity that, because it needs us to survive, keeps us in a dream, in an ilusion.
We have to see beyond the simbolism of words. And beyond the Special Efects.
Even in the Bible, didn't God "Created man so that he loved Him"?
This God, this Identity, this...Creator, this...Arquitect, whatever you whant to call it, created Us for a reason, that reason could be so simple like the desire to have power over something, the desire to feel love. And if we think...if God was all that existed, we houldn't really exist, He needs someone to exist, in orther to exist.
In the second movie, we realise that "choise is an ilusion created from those with power to those without it".
All my life I've defended this theory. If the world that we life in can be calculated by formulas, such as the speed of comets, the mass of a galaxy, and even periods between events that repeat from time to time (eclipses, comets, earthquakes...). This is a clear evidence that all existence follows a path written in the very begining.
A path from witch we cannot excape, or bend. Because our movements are dictated by one gigantic formula, that englobes all things.
It's like when you have a ball in your hand and trow it to the floor. You know from the very begining of your movement that the ball will hit the ground. Why?Because you are external to the ball, you can see all it's circunstance. But the ball does not know what is going to happen. It does not know that it is falling and it's inevitable. It can hope until the last second that it will not fall.

This can make us think for a wile...
Our world is not different from The Matrix. It is built on rules. Some can be broken.Others can be bent.
Imagine how life could be for a ball. Compare it to the scale of our planet.
The microorganisms on the ball would be us. Do you really think that God (that in this case would be a kid playing soccer) would care if one of those microorganisms lived or died?It just wantes to kick the ball! And this is the rule. But we, microorganisms, we don't care about that either, because we can't undrstand it. Soccer?What is soccer for an microorganism?Maybe that same that a Black hole is for us......a mistery...
Now imagine that a stronger microorganism can jump to the kid, and infect it's sistem. It has broken the rules. But the kid will get sick, and depending on the desease, He can even die!
The Kid could not see it, because from the moment the microorganism letf the ball it entered the Kid's environment, and the Kid is not external to it, so He could not forsee what would happen.
I hope this makes sence to some of you....

kain

interesting

even if I have not understood very well

I think that
as the electricity to be transmitted uses the binary system
1 and 0
as the yin and the yang
the duality control us
to get away the liberty

the only real part of us is the mind
the whole rest they are aspects of the mind

because all the rules are built on the duality
cause and effect
the only word that releases this law is
equilibrium
or neo\one
do you understand?

SIGHT

BackDoor,

my problem with your analogy from us to a ball is that a ball is not capable of knowledge of self, self realization. we have the ability to seek, ask and find. a ball does not. if you focused all of your thoughts on finding why you are here, you will find it. not many have the dicipline it takes be become awake. you ask why the Almighty created us. why does a painter paint? to create. the Creator just that, a Creator. we are beautiful creatures, as is the world and everything in it. humas have forgotten the beauty, the love that we come from and we are inside and have changed into a monster. yet all are capable of going back to the essence. do your research. and here's a hint, it starts within you, not in a book.

TrInItYtWiN

It's fun to think of virtual worlds that we are unwilling, but unknowing, slaves to. Amusing, even...

TrInItYtWiN

Wow, thats thought provoking, BackDoor.

However, it is depressing in the slightest bit...:rolleyes:

BackDoor

To Sight,

Allright, I knew you would use that argument...it is so evident...a ball has no concience. Imagine God says the same thing about us...

I am not saying that a ball thinks, but I am saying that we cannot know...however, in my analogy I was considering that the ball had conscience of itself, just to make it possible to use the analogy, or a metaphor as I like to call it.

It is just a thought. I believe one of it's messages is that we don't know what our acts can do, how will they afect the hole scheme of things, because we aren't external to the factors that we change. So, in changing these factors we are in turn, changing ourselfs. In my metaphor, the microorganism did not know that it would kill it's creator, he just kept "playing" with it's new situation, without realising the damage it would cause. This simbolises Human Will to discover, to question, without caring for the consequences. Human nature is, in nature, destructive, due to it's principle to question. Even in the movie, "it's the question that drives us.." remember? It's our question of wondering if there is such thing as a Matrix that leads us here, sharing thoughts with people that we will never see, in the 4 corners of the World. Human hability to question can be a very powerful tool in evolution, but the human mind tends to search for power instead of knoledge.

Admiting that we are inprisoned in this matrix, my question is if it would be prudent to brake free from it. What would be the consequences? Ofcourse, if I had the chance I would not think twice. My desire of releasing myself from the chains that inprison my mind is much stronguer that the doubt.

Now, about Love;
Love is probably the feeling that moves the World. I refuse to believe humans beeings have forgotten how to love. But the very meaning of love, what it has meant to be, that has changed without doubt. Love is now egocentric, and cares not with the other, or other people's desires. Love seeks it's own pleasure.
This is not, of course, my way of seeing it, but it's what I see happening around me. And sometimes, even myself gets influenced by it. It is disturbing. And this feeling of knowing that something is wrong, like a splinter in my mind keeps teeling me that something is missing.

Many times I stop at my window, looking at other people living up their lifes. Everyday the same thing, the same cicle. I keep trying to awake from this dream, but am I realy dreaming? This is the question.

I know that we live in some kind of prision, that we "cannot touch or taste or smell", a prision for my mind. But I have not yet discovered what kind of prision.
We must discover the prision before we try anything to brake free from it. Otherwise, we will fail.

In the beguining of this forum someone called himself the morpheus we are looking for.....If that's so, than show me the way to freedom, I'll show you the way to your mind...
:)

:cool:

realize_me

matrix means a place where some thing or even someone is contained/harnessed and formed,or most appropriately termed where realization of all kinds, take place; same goes for decisions,feelings, sensations, energy,wisdom,power & love. SO it is percieved already that time and space/opportunity/seasons/chance are one of the matrices in which we realize ourselves and act out out our intents.all the matrices are interalated/connected/interwoven into each other, GOD made all of them, the spiritual/heart matrix, the psycological/soul matrix, the mental/mind matix, and of course the physical: all these matrices are similar in a way to each other because their make up material are words, spoken out from GOD ,to have shape,shade,sound, visibility, perceptibility, and invisibility as he saw fit/meant it and us all to be , giving us ability to define him in relation to our status in creation. so that we all "aspectise" GOD ,OR WORSHIP HIM SO TO SPEAK. he is the meaning/logos/logic/reason for our existence. NEO means new born/recently born again/replugged into GOD the matrix whom we abandoned in times past. so you see GOD is in these end times so specialized (as is GLARING) in using NEW CONVERTS TO GET OUT the complete REALIZATION OF HIMSELF so that you would not say , he the matrix of eternal bliss was not made available and glaring to me, and he just enjoys amatures doing his publicity for him. thus crushing to pieces completely every wrong and hideous description of him, which is the control the agents/demons and the devil seek to hold you back from him with : but isn't it obvious to them already? it's still up to you to make your own choice ,that right cannot be infringed upon by any one at all not even GOD , cos' he is just and did'nt even make us that way ,i.e. to be overidden. stay cool . you could look up my profile to contact me. my e-mail add , k202d2000@yahoo.com.

realize_me

THE SOUND OF REALITY,INEVITABILITY IS GOD ,HE'S UNDENIABLE, HE IS THE REASON/LOGOS/LOGIC BY WHICH WE EXIST: AND OUGHT TO LIVE BY.THERE'S NO DENING HIM , COS WE ALL KNOW WITHOUT REASON , WE WOULD'NT BE HERE. I AIN'T MORPHEOUS I'M MORE LIKE NEO. you see your residual digital self image is what you use in interacting with every thing in the matrix, in reality , these are your WORDS, YOUR IMAGE/REPRESENTATION OF YOUR SELF AND YOUR CHOICES, EVEN FEELINGS , so you see you will be free when you realize the truth , theres no other basic factor, but you, GOD , AND YOUR CHOICE TO REPLUG INTO HIM. don't try to use guns like them morpheus do, apply yourself straight up like neo does , use your words well,LET THEM BE THAT WHICH IS ETERNAL THAT ISSUES FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD WHICH YOU HAVE BECOME, the residual and revealing logos/logical image of GOD) if YOU AND YOUR WORDS AND ALL THAT YOU ARE are GODS' YOU and they have pierced and spread thru all in existence, to get the reality of truth, all up in their face,thus you have become the conciousness of GOD fully experienced and revered , detailed and understood, in all the interconnected and GOD BUILT realms/MATRICES of life , in all the beings and things created , you and GOD being one and the same, now every where he is respected also as much as he is, fully experienced as much as he is , you have become the matrix also the boundary and interconnectivity and content/make up of all creation the realized and fully integrated/concentrated version/explanation /form/ being/ entirety of GOD THE FATHER OF ALL LIFE.DIFFERENT PERSONS BUT OF THE SAME SUBSTANCE,SPEECH, AND NATURE. those who think their freedom is found in their guns/carnal weaponry are just fooling themselves but for how long ? use your spirit that is now one with the author of existence GOD. and there will be no stopping you as there is no stopping GOD , CHECK IT . CHRIST SAID you WILL KNOW THE TRUTH AND YOU WILL BE FREE, i.e. by your willing acceptance. notice he did not say CAN KNOW... else it will remain a possibilty , he did not say MAY KNOW THE TRUTH, else it remain a probability, but he said you WILL KNOW THE TRUTH, IT THEREFORE IS INEVITABLE, TO DO THE WILL OF GOD IS TO REVEAL HIM TO ALL OF CREATION, AS HE REALLY IS IN ENTIRETY , THAT WHICH IS PERFECT HAS COME AS PROPHESIED BY PAUL. APPLY YOURSELF AND YOUR ALL TO GOD.

SIGHT

I believe one of it's messages is that we don't know what our acts can do, how will they afect the hole scheme of things, because we aren't external to the factors that we change. So, in changing these factors we are in turn, changing ourselfs. In my metaphor, the microorganism did not know that it would kill it's creator, he just kept "playing" with it's new situation, without realising the damage it would cause. This simbolises Human Will to discover, to question, without caring for the consequences. Human nature is, in nature, destructive, due to it's principle to question

BackDoor,

my point is that we are aware of the wrong we do. we know we are killing the earth, but companies also know that it is profitable to kill the earth, so like people who smoke, the figure im fine for now, we'll change when we lose a lung, so to speak. we know when we are being hateful, loving, jealous, greedy, etc. its just that most dont dive into the reason we are that way. to truely understand your thoughts, and how the provoke other thoughts and actions. most just let their minds ramble on without gaining control of it. most dont care to have the moral disipline to turn away from wrong even though it may bring them riches, power, what have you. the difference between the ball, or the organism that killed its host is that we are cabale of thought, understanding and wisdom. but if you do not seek to understand them, they will undoubtably lead to ignorance. which has gotten the human race where it is now. a blind leading the blind society. everyone living to make money to buy something, wheather it be material or just time. i guess you can look at your body as being the matrix in a way. your flesh has more control over you than you think. to gain control of the flesh, body and mind, is to free yourself from the matrix in one light. just thing about it.

SIGHT

realize_me,

what religion are you? i definitely believe in the Almighty, and that knowing God is the key to being free. but to truely know the Almighty, you must truely know yourself.

MacLeod

Sight, You truly have THE SIGHT.
Man's destructive nature is jus abt summed up by your answer...apparently we can do little abt it...but I believe an enlightened world will only be a matter of time...humanity can't be so willing to be barbaric and non-inquisitive forever...I subscribe a little to Star Trek's optimistic vision.
And Backdoor your knowledge of theology and philosophy is greatly appreciated. But consider somethings else:
It is very true from wat Morpheus says that Most of us do not want to wake up from the Matrix. Consider Cypher when u consider yourself:Cypher is the best example of the disillusioned philosopher in many of us...can the truth alone sustain us? I believe whole-heartedly in your view that curiousity and the need to know the truth is formost but I have a close friend who fell from the path and seeks solace in a virtual ignorance and (I may offend many) religion. I find no reason I should think less of him-he remains my close friend. The same in some ways as realize-me...they try to stick instead to wat theories they discovered at some point and refuse to question themselves or search for more questions anymore.
The search for truth can burn a deep hole into many people's hearts and raise questions that sear their soul for eternity...many cannot bear to do that. While it is true that we live in repetitive, controlled lives it is ourselves that impose the control...thus you can't look at it as a far-away dream or reality-you jus like everyone else in this forum contributed to the "prison" we live in...and ask yourself-is this prison really one? Is it so hard to live with constraints? Everything needs defined boundaries...its stretching them that makes all the fun. If you were to live say in the woods all by yourself with nothing to depend on but your wits you'd find it a very horrible place...but then again the term woods has constraints...even in pure space there are constraints. I hope I haven't lost you. It's like playing a computer game...how many times have you griped about how unrealistic some things are compared to real life? If you lived in one you wouldn't really need to complain as long as everything you needed was there...similarly you can complain about a game but you'll still play it and comply by its rules...thus rules and constraints guide and inspire as much as they imprison.
Well I think I jus yammered a whole lotta nothings to you Backdoor and I'm sorry but I hope u'll consider what I had to say:it might make the "waiting to wake up" feeling a little easier to bear. A few more words of advice:
How much do you want to "wake up", if you still so strongly want to? A mind too quickly enlightened might go mad...remember wat Morph says.
And lastly:the happiest man isn't the one with the most. Its one who needs the least.

SIGHT

MacLeod,

i would like to believe humankind will choose the path of enlightenment too. and im usually optomistic as well, but my gutt feeling is not good about my people. it is human nature to be self destructive, and there is profit in self destruction for a few reasons: one is population control, another is the underground economy, which if it were to be erased, would send our economy into shock and probably colapse it. for some reason people think they will live forever, they are too scared to really contemplate their death, which is really just an awakening in itself. so they continue smoking, drinking, drugs, robbing, killing, or just watching tv until they die. never accomplishing their potencial or making a positive change in the world we live in or leaving a legacy for their children but to follow in their mediochre footsteps. if the human race is to become enlightened, we must be the ones to start the ball. and we are up against an evil in the form of ignorance that would do anything to stop the truth from coming out. im making move to enlighten the masses, good luck on your mission as well.
and im glad to see you havent given up on your friend who chooses to follow a religion. as long as he doesnt become a blind zombie follower, the religion may enlighten him and provoke thoughts. as a matter of fact, it was the holes in christianity that made me question it and seek more answers. perhaps it will work the same for him. the thing is that we all have to find our path, what is truth and wisdom to us, may not be for the next guy.

i laughed when you say we could run into the woods to live, cuz ive thought about it lol. i dont think it would be that bad really. guess it all depends on how much of a servivor you are, how dependant on technology you are.

Son of Mixerman

Back to the title of the thread....

As soon as I found this website I became..plugged in..now I can't unplug...

I could go on for days if we keep bringing God back into the question.

SoMm

13en

Well I'm on a 15 minute break and most of the time I get on this forum I check out what other people have to say, here I felt like saying something. Well to me the Matrix is real, I think that the W. brothers just took reality and gave it a sci-fi look to it. True the matrix is just a movie, but the ideas in it are real. This movie is revealing how we are already being controlled. For instance the battery, its true we are all batteries in a manner of speaking. The first degree of knowledge of the ones controlling us is the knowledge of Electricity, and that the masses of people unregulated, without rules or order is chaotic but powerful entity. The trick is to harness that power/electricity to benefit their control. We are sheep and we are being herded by wolves in sheeps clothing through this life as slaves. I read most but not all of the posts here, (forgive me, but I don't have all the time in the world) and there are many points that I agree with. Freeing your mind is possible in this world but the price may be to great. For example look at Cipher in M1, his mind was free but he wanted to be plugged back in, my opinion is that many of those that are still asleep, if awoken would prefer to go back to sleep. Some people are chosen others are not, but we all have the capacity to free our mind. Simply put, this system, the govt. the dogma of the churches, the state, technology, science, media, and western capatilist culture in general, makes up the matrix of today that enslaves us. Well that's it for now, I'll post more later.

SIGHT

PRETTY GOOD FOR 15 MINUTES

MacLeod

Ha ha yeah 13en i know how ye feel....i only jus saw more of the posts on this thread...the most serious n enlightening one in my opinion.
Sight:
That's some reply tks for the feedback...here's to enlightenment :)
Yeah its hard to remove mankind from the crutches he placed himself in...impassiveness, greed...I always flunked my Economics classes 'cause I couldn't grasp simple concepts like every company wanting to get maximum benefits and the concept of wastage applied to earnings/resource use...can u believe its more profitable to produce much larger amounts of a product to the extent of resource usage?
Anyway u overestimate me when u mention my "mission"...I'm afraid i can hardly label myself as still being on one...I'm afraid life may have burned me out :) hope u stay strong on your path though.
And about my friend-its not a matter of giving up on him or not. I may have been too harsh to describe it as "falling off the path" and my point was everyone's view is important and has its point...one who has complete faith in his religion is no different from us following this "religion" of mankind and higher thought...I guess it still boils down to how it helps us interact wif the world. Many priests I know are very open and wise but maintain their core religion...I think very highly of them. N besides if God as they preach really exists n isn't too happy wif us thinking n questioning (there's a thread somewhere abt the comparisons between God and the Arc) his will then I suppose we're screwed :D

MacLeod

Another Pt:this was raised by many...kain, backdoor, Sight....is existence lies solely in the mind. Is this essentially true? This interesting question has been raised by ancient philosophers....damnit I'm not good at names this fact I'll never forgive myself so I can't say who thought this. Try out some philosophy books-they'll really help!
While it is true that our senses fool and restrict the mind never make the assumption then that the mind is all one needs. There has been a camp in philosophy that believed that the world was in the mind not the other way round...it has diminished significantly in strength by now because quite simply we learn about things before we know it-causality limits us. If we can break thru the borders of time n space and rise above "A leads to B leads to C" basically by then we'd either be a)god b)enlightened or c) driven completely mad.
...Jus so u knew :cool:

trevius

Every people is alone in is way to get freedom.
The key is in your mind, in your body, in your soul.
Now you are 100, you are a lot of thoughts...
free your mind.
Use Meditation
Use Martial Arts
Use your favorite way to free your mind...
The work is long and hard, but you have to do.
The taste of freedom is great

SIGHT

Anyway u overestimate me when u mention my "mission"...I'm afraid i can hardly label myself as still being on one...I'm afraid life may have burned me out hope u stay strong on your path though.

now how did you feel deep down as you typed that? what kind of thing is that to say? you wouldn't be on this sight if you didnt believe in something, have an opinion to be voiced, "felt something was wrong with the world" right. dont let others, nor your flesh be an obsticle bra. nothing to it but to do it.

N besides if God as they preach really exists n isn't too happy wif us thinking n questioning (there's a thread somewhere abt the comparisons between God and the Arc) his will then I suppose we're screwed

my belief: God Is and we are suppose to question the Almighty. thus, ask, seek, find. then ask seek find some more.

While it is true that our senses fool and restrict the mind never make the assumption then that the mind is all one needs. There has been a camp in philosophy that believed that the world was in the mind not the other way round...it has diminished significantly in strength by now because quite simply we learn about things before we know it-causality limits us. If we can break thru the borders of time n space and rise above "A leads to B leads to C" basically by then we'd either be a)god b)enlightened or c) driven completely mad.

well, you could say the mind is all one needs, because when you "dream", it is all your mind, yet you sense, move, think as you would when you are awake. but the mind only knows these things because it is tied into the body which gives us our human experience. thus, the mind of a bird dreams of flying, not riding motorcycles. what makes us tick is beyond the mind even. but then i guess thats where ones faith or belief lies. as for the last statement, a) we will never be God and trying to do so will lead to catastrophy b) we are focusing our minds on too much nonsese, things that we give such importance when they really have none, and one must become a fool to become wise or enlightened, basically, forget what you have been taught, seen learned, and learn all over again, and c) humans are already mad, what planet do you live on bra? lol

mazman

One thing I love about the Matrix is that it explains spoon bending and Deja-Vous. Did you know that there is a religion in India that believes in the theory of a "Matrix" and that some day "The One" will free us all?

It's plausable but highly unlikely!!!

Truth

Really/ What's it called?

mazman

Now I feel like a right ****! I cant remember, sorry!:(

Truth

That's okay, Mazman- just don't ever do it again!:D

realize_me

the all satisfing answer in life is to be indivisible from GOD , only by his incubating us and us harnessing him are we to be free, cos truly GOD is free , and to be free is to be eternally one/indivisible in and with him, to do this is to realize him in your entire being , and the only other quests to satisfy , or that will be satisfied apart from this , is to understand the happenings/prophesy of TIME , but this is only much beneficial if you've chosen to stick with GOD whom you're now discovering his agendas, first do his will/INTENT, which is to empower people everywhere with his freedom and peace and sanity and loving kindness , he let it be up to us to love ourselves AS HE loves us , as AS IN: as much, as in why? and as in how. see it's easy GOD LOVES US FOR WHO WE ARE irrespective of our choices, these include angels, his lovers, demons and the devil . you can never take away thier self esteem ,or value. but we are secured/saved in him by our eternal choice to stay with him come what may and to love like him come what MAY , all the answers though are in the POWER of prophesy like for morpheus, he believes it will be as forseen with or without knowing the process of occurence, but basically GOD searches the thoughts,intents,and purposes of all person, men and angels and even the devils alike so !!! he sees thier priorities and he has all this advantages in that he also gets to forordain messages for a time and like a company C.E.O. he's seen the market his strategy for approaching and acquiring faithfuls are perfect, so he just wants it to be good for everyone , so you want stock or not and howfar you wanna go for now with him? expecting replies , hope there are at leasts half minds out there??!!!! AND PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG , ALL THE THINGS I WROTE OF i.e. realize_me(4 newcomers check on my POSTS ) ALL MY WORDS THERE AIN'T THEORIES OR FIGURATIVE THEY ARE THE TRUTH, THEY MEAN EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN !!!!!! RESISTANCE TO THE TRUTH IS FUTILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!

Atari

Originally posted by realize_me
the all satisfing answer in life is to be indivisible from GOD , only by his incubating us and us harnessing him are we to be free, cos truly GOD is free , and to be free is to be eternally one/indivisible in and with him, to do this is to realize him in your entire being , and the only other quests to satisfy , or that will be satisfied apart from this , is to understand the happenings/prophesy of TIME , but this is only much beneficial if you've chosen to stick with GOD whom you're now discovering his agendas, first do his will/INTENT, which is to empower people everywhere with his freedom and peace and sanity and loving kindness , he let it be up to us to love ourselves AS HE loves us , as AS IN: as much, as in why? and as in how. see it's easy GOD LOVES US FOR WHO WE ARE irrespective of our choices, these include angels, his lovers, demons and the devil . you can never take away thier self esteem ,or value. but we are secured/saved in him by our eternal choice to stay with him come what may and to love like him come what MAY , all the answers though are in the POWER of prophesy like for morpheus, he believes it will be as forseen with or without knowing the process of occurence, but basically GOD searches the thoughts,intents,and purposes of all person, men and angels and even the devils alike so !!! he sees thier priorities and he has all this advantages in that he also gets to forordain messages for a time and like a company C.E.O. he's seen the market his strategy for approaching and acquiring faithfuls are perfect, so he just wants it to be good for everyone , so you want stock or not and howfar you wanna go for now with him? expecting replies , hope there are at leasts half minds out there??!!!! AND PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG , ALL THE THINGS I WROTE OF i.e. realize_me(4 newcomers check on my POSTS ) ALL MY WORDS THERE AIN'T THEORIES OR FIGURATIVE THEY ARE THE TRUTH, THEY MEAN EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN !!!!!! RESISTANCE TO THE TRUTH IS FUTILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive6.jpg

MacLeod

To Atari:Now, now, that's very...<hee hee> bad of you...you shouldn't be so rude to a <hee>-a fellow member of this forum? He has <hee> a right to <a-ha> voice his opinions and-AH I CAN'T TAKE IT GOTTA GO SOMEWHERE AND LAUGH THIS ALL OUT!!!!!

Ahem...now I'm back... I'd like to thank you Truth, for your high esteem. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be quoted so heavily...haha maybe I should insert some catchy phrase that'll echo down the halls of time forever...but seriously thanks. Then again it may not actually be esteem. Ah well...

Quote:
"you wouldn't be on this sight if you didnt believe in something, have an opinion to be voiced, "felt something was wrong with the world" right?"

Well there's a difference in having a dream and doing something with it. I'm not letting people interfere with my ideas its life I've had to adapt to. There's jus not enough room to enforce such an idea. Sure you can have it and talk about it but take my advice its a very lonely path. One doesn't have to give up-I haven't...jus know that more people than you know feel the same way you do but know they can't do that much to change anything...thinking too much about what you can't change won't help in the end and make you sadder;even hurt the people you try to change. I know I sound defeatist but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Learn wat you can and cannot change. Let the knowledge you know guide your path and perhaps help you help others but realize that sometimes it will cause pain to those you know. Avoid or deal with it wat way you can. You'll see what I mean. I only hope you come out stronger.
But a more serious discussion:I read someone's dissection of Reloaded once and his comaparison of the movies and Genesis struck a deep, disturbing chord in me. The serpent, he says, is not unlike Loki of Norse myth. Thus saying, Satan and the serpent need not represent Evil per se but Change and curiousity...it is after all the need to question and seek a change from the status quo that led to the expulsion from paradise. What this means is that God, much like the Architect, would in this case be a pillar of non-change, of acceptance of the iron rule. He may then actually NOT wish for his creation to question like Adam and Eve did! In many ways this feels very true-Christianity and its early stagnant culture led to the Dark Ages. For an Atheist like myself this may hold true since this way Good and Evil become blurred concepts...but wat if faith got dragged in? If the traditional concept of Good and Evil were true all along? Then curiousity, what we both view as Man's greatest shining glory, would actually be Man's greatest sin and like I said-we'd be seriously screwed. Doesn't sound like a fair deal, huh? (To all of such faith:my views are my own and if they offend I sincerely apologise-they scare me too) Sight I'd like to hear your views of this. I'm sure it'll be a pleasure to read as usual. You've been a great conversationalist!

P.S. mazman that's one hell of an avatar. <Shivers>

mazman

P.S. mazman that's one hell of an avatar. <Shivers>

Cheers MacLeod! It was made by JakeNewman. He makes all the best avatars!

Jat

So, the movie is a way to explain to all the world how we are going out of the system?

13en

Hey Macleod, I feel you on what you're saying. I can honestly say that in my view of the world I've freed my mind to a point where I understand the powers that be as well as the characteristics of the human that leads him on the different paths that we find in this world.

I mean sometimes even though we realize the nature of this world, and we can clearly see what is wrong with it, don't you feel like you're on the outside looking in? Like everyone else is crowding around in front of a store window and you're away from the group feeling indifferent, already knowing the trap behind that product that they so desperately want and feel that they need?

Yeah most of the time it feels hopeless but you have to survive in this world and you have to do certain things to survive. We're not deafitists man, we're realists, you know what I mean?

some people might think that we're very pessimistic as well, well at least some people I know have thought that of me, but they don't understand the value of things in this life. The value of spiritual over material.

What I do, is that I make music and I express myself in that way, I know others write and do other things to protest and let their views be heard, I think expressing yourself is the solution. All we can hope for is to change ourselves and the others around us, like our family and friends.

Well peace G, believe me I know its a lonely path.

About the question of curiosity, change, and faith, well I can't say that I'm an aetheist, but I don't subscribe to any religion either. I think there is a force in the universe that is simultaneously both good and evil. Faith in either good or evil is foolish because the pendulum will eventually swing back in favor of the opposite. I think that right now our mentality and attitude in a world that is hateful and increasingly evil, is very similar to Satan's attitude in a world that was basically perfect. (hmm, that reminded me about Smith's explanation of how the first matrix was created perfect - like the garden of eden)

I think you hit on something when you said curiosity (or desire for change) would actually be Man's greatest sin. I think it is both his shining glory and greatest sin, and is necessary to maintain a balance in the world. Kind of like when the architect says that hope is simultaneously man's greatest strength and greatest weakness.

Remember when Morpheous tells Neo no to think of it in terms of good or bad when they go visit the Oracle? Well I think there is profound wisdom in that. When you start to look at the world in terms of the many dualities you find in life, things will start to make more sense. I don't know if what I'm saying is making sense, but these are my views.

Truth

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacLeod
[B]I'd like to thank you Truth, for your high esteem. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be quoted so heavily...haha maybe I should insert some catchy phrase that'll echo down the halls of time forever...but seriously thanks. Then again it may not actually be esteem. Ah well...

Well, it wasn't actually me.............it was SIGHT. But thanks for thinking of me! LOL

hakanlen

Originally posted by Truth
I actually really believe the whole concept of the Matrix, and the idea as put forward in the film. I think we are all part of the matrix right now. What does anyone else think?

thaats funny and nothing new
it is a primitive film

Truth

Wow! That was such an intelligent answer! And so original!

Come back when you have something to say. Or at least a relevant point to make.

NightHawk

Primitive??Is that what brought you to this forum?

NightHawk

Originally posted by Atari
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive6.jpg

Lol, did you realize that user was banned?

Originally posted by A Freed Mind
People of Zion,

Good Morning, I have been putting forth an excercised effort to Free The Minds of others but for an instance it felt as though the minds I was trying to free didnt want to be freed, I sat back and let things fall into place, Truth happened to venture out on a dangerous path, A path I myself had problems walking... The Matrix Is Real, give or take, realize this: If the Matrix was real do you think A.I. would let u recieve this message???? But then again they probably think there is little you can do beside accept the truth anyways.....so it really makes little or no difference at all, I will be truthful, we are fighting a losing battle....with every soldier we free, we come a step closer to victory......think on this and if u r interested IM Me

Oh my god. I just stumbled accross this little gem by accident. Do you know how many impressionable little ones are on this forum? You are speaking complete rubbish my friend and if you have a problem discussing this on forum please enlighten me further with a PM. It seems ladies and gentleman what this poor lost soul is saying is that AI can't get past the almighty firewall of AIM/AOL. But I hope there are enough of you out there ( and yes Agent Conner that means you too) who won't subscribe to this rubbish. Big windup go away.

UT

MacLeod

ARGH!!! I'M SO SORRY TRUTH N SIGHT!!!!
Damn I'm really bad at names...but I'd like to say how happy i am this forum has many people coming wif very powerful ideas and feedbacking each other....except alot of guys at the back though. Pfft.
13en you're another pride to the forum. Hope we'll be hearing more of ya...your pts are very true. You dun have to be outside the system and an outcast to change things...the biggest changes are the ones done by the people inside, who dun subscribe fully and passively to the status quo.
Also the duality of nature is very strong both in real life and the Matrix. No-one deserves to win, or is truly good...The machines may seem malevolent but so did the humans in the 2nd renaissance (the most sickeningly depressing short I've ever seen)...Smith may have been the illogical pain in Neo's side but so is Neo to the Arc...Ego, id...hate, love...hmm...
And about Mankind's greatest hope yeah...I still think our curiousity is the shining glory...the main trait that advances mankind. Love? Hope? Not really...they're quite selfish things that only gives strength to individuals. Still that's jus my view...mankind must grow to become better, or even at the very least, stronger at what he already knows. There is no more devout a religious person than the person who continually questions his religion...

Well that ends my short contribution for now. Brain a little dry....<gasp> could the system be locking on to me? Draining my ability to questionnnnnnnnrrrrrr....

P.S. My salute to JakeNewman n Mazman....could'ya make an avatar for me?...

Truth

Well............

I hate to admit when I'm wrong but, Ultimate Trinty is right. A freed Mind is a moron. As you can see at the beginning of this thread, he contacted me with messages on the thread and by PM. He sounded very interesting, and it's always nice to talk to people who agree with you! However, it soon became apparent that he had no idea what he was talking about, and just wanted to rant about the whiterabbit.com site. Which I checked out- and was very dissappointed with. It's nothing!

So, people, please don't listen to him- he can't help you in any way.

Not that he's changed my mind about the nature of our reality and my beliefs in relation to it.

I would just like to remind others that we are not all demented, crazy losers, even though some of us share certain beliefs with A Freed Mind. He might be mad, not all of us are though! LOL.

Macleod- it's always nice to be appreciated! I started this thread because i thought I was the only one, and I wanted to be able to debate the idea with others. It's nice to find that I'm not alone with my 'unorthodox' ideas.

And since you mentioned it, I'd just like to thank my avatar maker, Jake Newman. Thanks again.

Macleod- if you want him to make you one, send him a message on the Avatar request thread in Multimedia- he's probably more likely to see it there.

Originally posted by SIGHT
the matrix is real.
we are enslaved in a prison most cant see
the matrix is our democratic/capitalist system
the agents are the cia, fbi govt officials
if you want to be freed from the matrix, we must form, fight and overthrow these agents and thus the system.

but who has the balls to is the question that will remain

Wow stick a fork in this one Murial he's done!!!!!

MacLeod

Hey Truth right back at ya-its sure good not to feel alone. Hey JakeNewman! U out there? Think I'll go post that request soon...

Actually your ideas are not that unorthodox. Many more than u think out there share your ideas...make some frens!! It's been great knowing Sight n UT n rumi n so on...
...But a little suggestion to Sight:dun treat the government or society as a Matrix-you're right in principle but like I've mentioned before the chains we are placed in we created ourselves. I've heard many statements here n there like "Order the nicer term for Control" but I dun think so badly about it. Sure governments have this bad thing or other n education n stuff are so restrictive but hey why does every country have one? They're man's best answer to organize man n frankly without them you'd be worrying more than about poor education systems or such. Improve em', improve ourselves...but like the matrix do it gradually...millions of poor naked souls waking up in vats n screaming their heads off is nightmarish at best. Remember we have governments that actually listen...even though at varying degrees. If you're in America good for you then, I've heard many good things of its democracy.
So cheer up; be proud of your thoughts but not too forceful with them...I always drew inspiration from that last scene in M1..you know, where Neo looks around from the phonebooth at all those people...then smiles a little...C'ya all for now then!

SIGHT

"Well there's a difference in having a dream and doing something with it. I'm not letting people interfere with my ideas its life I've had to adapt to. There's jus not enough room to enforce such an idea. Sure you can have it and talk about it but take my advice its a very lonely path. One doesn't have to give up-I haven't...jus know that more people than you know feel the same way you do but know they can't do that much to change anything...thinking too much about what you can't change won't help in the end and make you sadder;even hurt the people you try to change. I know I sound defeatist but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Learn wat you can and cannot change. Let the knowledge you know guide your path and perhaps help you help others but realize that sometimes it will cause pain to those you know. Avoid or deal with it wat way you can. You'll see what I mean. I only hope you come out stronger."

you can always change things. you just have to decide what you are willing to give up to see the change happen. thats like a child afraid of asking a question for fear of looking stupid to the class. he is the true fool. but the one who asks a question, even though the majority of the class may laugh at him for not knowing, still receives an answer and now knows. there is nothing on this earth that cannot be changes one way or another. its all about finding a way, then applying it. like morph said, theres a difference between knowing the path and walking it, right. and you wont have to change people, your actions and your cause will change them. dont give up homie. adapt.

"But a more serious discussion:I read someone's dissection of Reloaded once and his comaparison of the movies and Genesis struck a deep, disturbing chord in me. The serpent, he says, is not unlike Loki of Norse myth. Thus saying, Satan and the serpent need not represent Evil per se but Change and curiousity...it is after all the need to question and seek a change from the status quo that led to the expulsion from paradise. What this means is that God, much like the Architect, would in this case be a pillar of non-change, of acceptance of the iron rule. He may then actually NOT wish for his creation to question like Adam and Eve did! In many ways this feels very true-Christianity and its early stagnant culture led to the Dark Ages. For an Atheist like myself this may hold true since this way Good and Evil become blurred concepts...but wat if faith got dragged in? If the traditional concept of Good and Evil were true all along? Then curiousity, what we both view as Man's greatest shining glory, would actually be Man's greatest sin and like I said-we'd be seriously screwed. Doesn't sound like a fair deal, huh? (To all of such faith:my views are my own and if they offend I sincerely apologise-they scare me too) Sight I'd like to hear your views of this. I'm sure it'll be a pleasure to read as usual. You've been a great conversationalist!"

first, i believe in the Almighty. i dont believe in a man in the sky, or a man that was God in the flesh. i have no allegience to any organized religion. i believe that the Almighty was, is and will be. God, to me, is the timeless force of consious energy that fills every inch of the universe and therfore is everywhere at all times. I feel the Almighty, see the Almighty, speek to God, pray, and have faith. and i see the blessings daily. i have seen the light, literally. i have sampled what i believe to be heaven, a state of peace, more than joy, warmth, unconditional love. i was in prayer/medatation without one once of doubt that i was being heard, spoke from my soul, and i was answered. since then, i have continued to change for the better and seek truth. which of course it the big question right. at this point what the truth is, most may never know. for how do you really know? really, we have gone way too far astray from the Source. there are thousands of religions, gods, beliefs, etc. all claiming they are true. my thing is find what is true to you and live it. we all know right from wrong. we all know that hurting people is wrong. just try to live as right as you can and enlighten yourself as to yourself. why you think what you do. who you truely are. for you can not know God, if you do not know yourself. i know i am more than flesh and bones. know im more than brain processes, if anything, this flesh im incaged in is my matrix. when i die, i will hopefully be free. true, in the story of adam and eve, their curiousity got the best of them, and they were banished from the garden. you could look at it like we shouldnt question anything because God doesn't want us too and if we do we get punished, or it is satan. or you could see that God was the first to let us know we need laws to abide by. they broke that law. God didnt say do not be curious or question anything else, but that fruit tree. and that was the one thing they did. human nature. so, sure, question God, question your purpose, question life. but some things should not be done. like cloning, and genetic modifications, etc. that to me is like the curiosity of the fruit tree. headed for distruction. we were not meant to be slaves, to just think and so what we are told. that doesnt promote growth. but along with our ability to question and reason comes the responsibility of knowing what not to dabble with. that is the hard part. if not believing in the Almighty is your truth, i have to ask why. is it something you just thought about, like someone who thinks avocado looks nasty and wont taste it, only to one day be forced to taste it and ends up loving it? how did you come to the decision to not believe in the Almighty. the concept just sounds imposible? the big bang sounds better? its all about soul searching. for if you say "I" and think you are what you see in the mirror and the organs within that skin, in my opinion you do not know who "I" truely is. so, question yourself first if you are to question anything. thats my opinion.

MacLeod

Originally posted by SIGHT
you can always change things. you just have to decide what you are willing to give up to see the change happen. thats like a child afraid of asking a question for fear of looking stupid to the class. he is the true fool. but the one who asks a question, even though the majority of the class may laugh at him for not knowing, still receives an answer and now knows. there is nothing on this earth that cannot be changes one way or another. its all about finding a way, then applying it. like morph said, theres a difference between knowing the path and walking it, right. and you wont have to change people, your actions and your cause will change them. dont give up homie. adapt.

I know what yer trying to say Sight...may I ask how old you are? I've gone through this discussion in wat seemed like ages ago and seen my version of the truth. I'm not saying I'm afraid to ask or something but consider the consequences. Speaking up aggressively labels u as the opposition-this done, even a valid pt becomes ignored as jus another annoyance. The people I know who have true meaning in lives dun speak or complain or debate things:they change them themselves and surprise everyone. ok so here i am advocating change...my pt in this case is change is good but know clearly wat you really need to do to get it and know which change is achievable. there are too many things in life we want to change:we cannot worry over everything since most really cannot be changed, but we can exert a huge influence in the ones we can. Someone once said:"To change the nation u must first change your community. To change your community your frens. Your frens your family. But finally your family yourself." Believe me it'll set u free. I dun expect to invent faster-than-light travel or abolish money or end world hunger but perhaps I can do the little things in life that help it?...lead an environmentally-friendly lifestyle? help influence a few minds? I had a fren who argued about everything in which he felt unjustly treated in when we served our country's mandatory army training but never had anything resolved in the end. As a result he was blacklisted. He was right, in those cases, but the situations dictated one swallow the hardship and go wif wat they had. mostly afterwards our superiors were understanding enough to know we were unjustly treated and resolve the problem later...but he didn't understand.

Originally posted by SIGHT
but some things should not be done. like cloning, and genetic modifications, etc. that to me is like the curiosity of the fruit tree. headed for distruction. we were not meant to be slaves, to just think and so what we are told. that doesnt promote growth. but along with our ability to question and reason comes the responsibility of knowing what not to dabble with. that is the hard part. if not believing in the Almighty is your truth, i have to ask why. is it something you just thought about, like someone who thinks avocado looks nasty and wont taste it, only to one day be forced to taste it and ends up loving it? how did you come to the decision to not believe in the Almighty. the concept just sounds imposible? the big bang sounds better? its all about soul searching. for if you say "I" and think you are what you see in the mirror and the organs within that skin, in my opinion you do not know who "I" truely is. so, question yourself first if you are to question anything. thats my opinion.

Ah but these things I dun agree wif. Wat wif all this left- and right-wing feelings, I try not to limit myself thus. remember that homosexuality once carried a death sentence. so did manslaughter. or adultary. Many more things had a powerful stigma on them. Human Dissections. Galileo wif his theory of the universe. Socrates by questioning everything people knew and loved. What's to say those things you said won't be taboo 50 years from now? Even the question of GM foods is being hotly debated. If you're speaking about now though yeah i dun think we have that responsibility yet...but later? You asked about my atheism. I do believe in a cosmic being much like yours but I think of it as more unfeeling; like fate if you will. It doesn't choose to give us a boon or a curse because it has no idea wat they are. Thus I dun see things in so good or bad sort of things. My religion is thus instead one of order. my morals are those like "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few."....an aspiring Vulcan if u will. This may explain things somewat-why then? I have Christian friends for example who assure me that cannibals (those who were taught to live by the rules of such, not people like Hannibal) will burn in hell, or that to question even an iota of the Bible's teachings is pointless. i dun have to say more...I know they don't represent all and i'm sorry to whoever i offended but this affected me.

Sight, I thank you for being so forthright and unabashedly challenging my views (a challenge i warmly welcome) and i hope I've explained things abit. I am not presuming to change you and i hope i dun, but i do hope we've arrived at an understanding of each other. Look forward to your reply, as of Truth's and anyone else game. Cheers folks!

Truth

Just a little point but........
I recently bought a book from amazon, and I just got it yesterday. You may have heard of it, it's called The Matrix Warrior, by Jake Horsley. I sat up and read it through all last night, so I'm a bit tired this morning. Anyway, for those of you who do believe, this book is like a Bible- the arguments and points are clear and concise, and he also has helpful ideas. So go buy it or loan it- because I'm sure you'll find it interesting!

SIGHT

"I know what yer trying to say Sight...may I ask how old you are?"

im 25.....seems like im going on 3000. old soul, you know.

"I'm not saying I'm afraid to ask or something but consider the consequences. Speaking up aggressively labels u as the opposition-this done, even a valid pt becomes ignored as jus another annoyance. The people I know who have true meaning in lives dun speak or complain or debate things:they change them themselves and surprise everyone. ok so here i am advocating change...my pt in this case is change is good but know clearly wat you really need to do to get it and know which change is achievable. there are too many things in life we want to change:"

i feel you. you dont want to be that person who is always saying, "im gonna do.....or im gonna change......" and then nothing gets done and people dont take you seriously. actions definitely speak louder than words, especially in this situation. you may be risking your life depending on what you wish to change, but you have to be willing to die for what you believe in. ive spoken to my family about that. i dont know all the changes i will set out to make, but i am sure that there will be many who stand to lose from the changes. what they will do to try and stop me, i dont know, but i have to be true to me. i know i am blessed regardless. perhaps that is the element you lack. maybe not. and yes, you must pick your battles wisely. we must be strategic in the fight to spread wisdom.

:"To change the nation u must first change your community. To change your community your frens. Your frens your family. But finally your family yourself." Believe me it'll set u free. I dun expect to invent faster-than-light travel or abolish money or end world hunger but perhaps I can do the little things in life that help it?...lead an environmentally-friendly lifestyle? help influence a few minds?

i agree. it all starts with your self and works its way out. thats with everything. you look in to look out. those sound like great ways to start living right and setting an example. but just do not stop there. there is so much to be done and we need good people to do them. you sound like a leader, not a follower. so lead, lead by example.

"Even the question of GM foods is being hotly debated. If you're speaking about now though yeah i dun think we have that responsibility yet...but later?"

i am goind to do my best to make sure gm foods are not the future. nobody knows the side effects. all they know is it is profitable. but before i fight to ban gmfoods, i will fight to lable them. the people have a right to know what they are eating. if a tomato has fish genes, or tabacco has human genes(both true) they should be labled as such on the products lable. that is my first fight in that regard. but there are so many unjust things happening. if you dont fight for something, you are deaf dumb and blind in my opoinion. and you are right, now we are not responsible, and as for later, being irresponsible now my cause ther to be no LATER!

"You asked about my atheism. I do believe in a cosmic being much like yours but I think of it as more unfeeling; like fate if you will. It doesn't choose to give us a boon or a curse because it has no idea wat they are. Thus I dun see things in so good or bad sort of things. My religion is thus instead one of order. my morals are those like "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few."....an aspiring Vulcan if u will. This may explain things somewat-why then? I have Christian friends for example who assure me that cannibals (those who were taught to live by the rules of such, not people like Hannibal) will burn in hell, or that to question even an iota of the Bible's teachings is pointless. i dun have to say more...I know they don't represent all and i'm sorry to whoever i offended but this affected me."

but everything feels. everything reacts. energy is feeling. im not trying to change you or anything, but rather just debating like you said. no offense. i dont know about curses, but there are boons by all means. so do you believe in karma or whatever, like what you put out is what you receive? i mean if you breed anger, you will receive anger, same with good. that is how the energy works to me. but to me, the Almighty is definitely conscious, why, because i am and there is only one life force, the Almighty which all that is, all that has energy, is a part of whether they know it or not. the more you are in tune with the Spirit the more you See, thus, Sight. i see things before they happen. i feel things that register not as words, yet i understand the language. it gets deep. but thats just in my world. what bout yours?

kodell

So Sight, you're a bit of a doer. That's cool. We probably need more like you in the world today. Thumbs up, just keep it real.

kodell

Truth

Originally posted by SIGHT
[Bi feel things that register not as words, yet i understand the language. it gets deep. but thats just in my world. what bout yours? [/B]

Surprisingly similar!

And for Kodell: define real! LOL!

kodell

Ok reality is when you don't jump out of a window and test the laws of physics. If the world we live in is in fact a matrix, then how come we have suicides. Or not breathing because they believe it isn't oxygen. You can slow down your breathing, even stop your heart from beating, however do it long enough and even the most experienced will come out of it (if they are lucky) with brain damage due to the fact that they needed that said oxygen to sustain them.

So far I have read people who are convinced they can fly, bend spoons and also one wants to shoot themselves in the head to see if he can dodge a bullet. That is, by definition not reality they are living in but a fantasy world.

I love to keep an open mind on everything Truth, however we all know that we live under laws and guidlines, have morons in power and officials and law enforcements that make faustian pacts with the enemy.

That is life, and I love my daily challanges

kodell

Truth

Absolutely right, Kodell. The people who think they can fly/bend spoons/ not breathe, whatever are idiots. Their ideas are based on the movies. They may have a strong belief, but as we all saw demonstrated in the movies, you can't do anything until you are actually rescued. (eg: even though Neo had an idea 'the splinter in his brain', it wans't until he took a red pill that everything really became 'unreal' to him)

These people should concentrate on feeing their minds, not their bodies.

kodell

Yes, freeing your mind though would inevitably lead to making a choice of freeing your body also. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a freed mind, however within its' limitations. Even Buddah had trials and lifetimes (Kalpas) of certain stages of enlightenment, before he can lead the people to Nirvana. And even now he is not quite there yet. We are still in a Kalpa.

In the movie Neo was portrayed as loner, I am under the assumption he chose that path for he was obsessed with somthing he knew wasn't quite right. In life, people need escapism, or they would inevitably go mad. Unfortunatly, some people take it that little bit further, fantasy.

It might take small steps to make a difference in this world, and everything we do CAN makes a small difference, whether it being recyling, sponsoring a child and so forth. These things I do willingly, for it is a caring act of human kindness. However, being the scientist I am, I would say that if all of us truly focused on freeing our minds first, then telepathy would inevitably lead us to the next stage of evolution. When our body follows, then that stage of evolution would be beings of pure energy, without form.

kodell

MacLeod

To Truth n Kodell:
Yeah hey I know exactly wat u said. pple who can bend said rules of physics by sheer force of will are godlike or jedi-both won't really exist in my opinion fer a long time yet...also abt Neo:remember that he even as the One failed his first jump. it doesn't mean anything, but if it does i'd say its that u need a whole lot more than faith to warp physics. I can't tell how many times I've secretly tried to use my pure willpower to move objects hee really embarrassing but well there was hope...:D

To Sight:
Woah...you're 25? Aheh this is embarrassing...I'm only 21 and i feel so old. Man you've got alot of willpower to life and from the way I see it to say what you say at that age is definitely drawing strength from more than jus naivete (i'm sorry i ever doubted u :p) about speaking to your family and all i realise you're really serious about all this and know about the risks...that's mighty prepared of you. I hope ye won't have to come to that though...heh heh.
About me again I feel the honor is undeserved. i dunno if i can even lead a bunch of ants to sugar but i think i get the gist of wat u mean. Its worth trying...sitting ard here and talking abt life is also getting to me-gotta quit that habit n do something. Thanks for the reminder.
Ooh...but about the GM foods thing. Ok I think i wrote alittle unclear...i meant wat u said earlier about cloning and all-the GM foods thing was only another example of mine. Hey still about it I know wat u mean-in fact I believe you're rite about your first step-problem is my govt is a little tight wif control and i still dun even know if we do have GM foods here...shh i hear G-men comin'!!
But again on GM foods...like I said there's still no right or wrong. It's rite and nice to say wat you say living a life like ours with computers n all but out in many countries people are starving endlessly and rely on nothing but charity to get by...which jus means they'll have nothing but charity to depend on till they die. Perhaps GM foods would ease the world's burden, help their crops grow easier? Ethics always tend to get blurred on times of crisis:this is another issue I can't quite take sides on just yet.

Hmm...but about your faith. I dunno. I may believe somewat in fate and all but is the universe really so kind? Why do senseless pain and suffering exist? Good doesn't always beget good. Still, taking your other ideas into account you seem Buddhist in a way. Maybe you should read up on it...jus for the record I'm pretty torn up inside. A part (the id u could say) of me believes in fate in your definitions of balance and cosmic justice and all yet the other cynical side (the ego) refuses to take comfort. For the most part both sides agree in the uncontrollable fate suggested by the matrix and some philosophies(if an atom's movement can truly be predicted, by extension the universe can)...how we take comfort in our not knowing the fates is up to us.
We are pretty alike Sight like I've guessed u said. Alot of wat u said makes sense...I guess in some respects we're actually two sides o' the same coin. Hmm...tks for your view though...and dun worry I know they're jus for healthy debate!
"...Seems like each time we meet I have nothing but bad news for ya...I'm sorry for that; surely I am...But for what it's worth: you've made a believer out've me."

I disagree with you MacLeod on sight being a buddist, if anything, kodell was the one who stated buddist fundamental text. Sight does not believe in a religion, just a higher being. I agree with him on that point. I also believe in rebirth, however that doesn't make me a buddist either.

It's all about common sense and a love for fellow man. I do believe that our next evolutionary step will be telepathy, however, in our lifetime unfortunatly we will never experience our bodies evolutionary step, to be freed of our mortal flesh and become beings of pure energy. maybee in a hundred lifetimes later.

UT

Truth

Macleod- I'm 21 too, and I cried on by 20th birthday because I felt so old!

MacLeod

Alright UT u got a pt....i was jus saying it sounded very buddhist-like...thinking for mankind being one with the universe instead of a being called god, trust in karma and fate...even the thought abt a higher being in everything of the universe sounds buddhist...not true buddhism but like i said it drew quite a few parallels...maybe it could give him new ideas if he read up...maybe i should heh...
Yo and Truth-my condolences on your situation too! here's to our gone teenage days LOL! hey u sound very much like a fren of mine...hmm...u sure u ain't from singapore?
"...I can't go back?"
"No. But if you were given a choice, would you?"
"...................<whimpers> yes?"

Truth

Originally posted by MacLeod
"...I can't go back?"
"No. But if you were given a choice, would you?"
"...................<whimpers> yes?"

Ha ha ha! You forgot about snivelling into a snotty tissue!

But where's the 'uncontrollable fate' in the Matrix? That's the whole point, right? It's all controlled. Even the people in the Matrix who dont' have any idea about it, who think they are making their own decisions are totally under control. Think about it. For every situation, there are a finite set of reactions from any given person. Now, because the Matrix is in control, it can predict which 'choice' the person will go for, and plan accordingly. But picking from a given list isn't free choice. Everything is controlled, what isn't so rigid is the speed and the exact path the person will take to reach the final outcome.

And, no I'm not from Singapore- would be very cool if I was though!

MacLeod

Ha ha great one Truth! too bad u're not a fellow kinsman...and believe me it couldn't be cool...we're a tropical country (tropics...cool? geddit?)

Oops I made another writing mistake....actually i meant uncontrollable from the people's point of view not the matrix heh but you explained it nicely

P.S. Truth and Sight....True Sight....jus a thought...

SIGHT

i just wrote all this stuff and submitted it and the dam thing logged me out!!!rrrrrrrrrr.

ok, i have researched the buddhist eightfold path which was very enlightening. i cant say im feeling the whole reincarnation thing right now, but what it has to say about controlling your mind, your thoughts, illiminating your ego and thus ignorance is great. i recommend all of you to read it if you have not. especially you MacLeod. you say why do we suffer. well the eighfold path's purpose is to end all suffering. talks about how everything in this life is suffering. pleasure is suffering because we always want to feel it, ie. eating, deficating, sex, getting our way, etc., and if we dont we suffer, when things make us angry we suffer, at birth we suffer, with death we suffer, etc. and the way to end all that is wisdom. to gain control of your mind and all its thoughts, to illiminate the ego and therefore ignorance. suffering and ignorance are like the same word. buddhists dont believe in the Almighty and i do, so i could never be buddhist, but i would never be any religion because that is my faith. it is all about your personal relationship with the Almighty in my opoinion. but if you hear, see, read wisdom or truth, it is what it is regarless of if it is from buddha, jesus, muhammad or the bum on the corner. just gotta take it all in, process it and be aware of it. and make your decisions. dont let your decisions be made for you, or dont let your mind think your thoughts. feel me. once you can acheive that, wisdom comes.

"...But for what it's worth: you've made a believer out've me."

MacLeod, is funny you chose that because my grandmother said these exact words to me last week. then i was at the mall and they had reloaded playing in the imax(huge screen if you dont know) so i had to see it. and when the oracle said that to neo it was crazy cuz i heard my grandma. they favor each other too, her and the oracle. now you chose to type it. funny. but you know what. thats what i would like to be known for. that i believed in something good, and my actions and my words coencide. thus people take not. do your thing my friend. 21 was a great age for me. i learned alot, did alot, made moves. hope it works out the same for you.

"Truth and Sight....True Sight....jus a thought..."

ya i peeped that. i actually had that name run across my mind when choosing. truth leads to sight, and sight leads to truth. funny.

Truth

Speak of the Devil and all that..................

I think I might have mentioned it already, but Sight and Macleod, you guys should both read a book called Matrix Warrior: Becoming the One, by a guy called Jake Horsley. It basically expounds on your theory Sight, and I read it all in one sitting, so it must be interesting!

I am so glad to read the noble eightfold path. For those who aren't familiar with it here is a bit of a summary.

1. right understanding

2 right thought

3 right speech

4 right action

5 right livlihood

6 right effort

7 right midfulness

8 right meditation

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world....The Buddah.

love UT

Truth

But what is 'right'?

A Freed Mind

What is the Matrix? Havent you figured it out by now? You are inside the Matrix right now. From the time you wake until the time your head hits that pillow, you are trapped within the confines of the Matrix

jordanofengland

i really hate to break this to all of you, but the matrix is just a film. A thought inspiring film, but a film none the less. The Matrix isn't real, if it was, why haven't i heard about someone being able to fly over America???Surely news would have gotten around.

Sorry Guys but your living in a fantasy world, just not the kind you think you are

mazman

Yeah, but you cant deny that we really could be in a Matrix. What about spoon bending and Deja-Vous????

MacLeod

ha ha ease up mazman n jordano...no one's truly taking the concept that seriously ('cept maybe "a freed mind"...) but we're jus discussing the parallels between it and our own world...read our posts!
the matrix presents maybe the strongest example of that ancient philosophic idea that the universe n the forces controlling it is beyond what we can grasp...which essentially is true. Can you see into the infrared spectrum unaided? Religion is one way for us to grasp such a lack of knowledge...science came later.
...Speaking of religions did u know Buddhism isn't a religion:its a teaching? there's a difference...no true all-powerful gods for example. tks UT n Truth n Sight...pity i'll probably never get down to finding those books. i do have some fundamental knowledge of buddhism after all my country is a hodgepodge of this stuff...

Truth: About "right"...basically "right" means rightness n duty to humanity like the people around you, not a higher purpose. This'll also encompass teaching the way to enlightenment, but most importantly non-violently. It's is a unique concept like Confucianism since you don't blindly do what you want n piss everyone off under the impression that you serve some higher purpose...remind you of someone? Hint:"...Not everyone believes what you believe!"..."My beliefs do not require them to." Hey, I'm a pragmatic.

Yeah n Sight-well you jus answered that question more for yourself than me. I've heard of that pt but didn't know it exactly...thanks for clarifying it but i think it helped u more than me...though it might contradict your thinking alittle. Your Boons will now be related (quite accurately) to suffering...its an eternal cycle. Hey but Buddhism is patient-we've got entire cycles of lifetimes to attain enlightenment and lift ourselves outta this (I had to say it) "matrix"...its a nicer view than the "conform or burn in hell" outlook. Alright I'm quite pro-Buddhism...I guess i'll before someone throws accusations. It's got its own faults so i won't press de issue...
And Sight...you'll never believe in Buddism. But me too, to an extent. But I believe in it alot more than most others, and that Almighty thing you believe in can be compared to fate or the delicate balance of infinity and eternity...that'll fulfil most religions in my opinion. You're right...and I also believe that one should jus be a good man, a wise one...what happens in any form of figurative or literal afterlife as a result will be a good one. That's wat every faith ultimately was designed to teach.

Ah...such an enlightening thread!! I thoroughly enjoyed meself here...we've got jus about every enlightened person in the forum here except maybe MRM or rumi or such examples...hope we can continue somewhere else though or the no of pages'll give someone a headache hee....

jordanofengland

i just happen to think that some people on these message boards take the film a little too far and need to remember that it is just a film and not reality, sorry if i offended anyone. It was not my aim to do so at all.

JOrdan

Truth

That's the point though, Jordan. It is just a film, but does it have some higher meaning? It certainly has enough religion, theology and philosophy- so why not a few little hidden secrets about reality? (okay, maybe not so hidden!)
And you're right- it's not reality- but that's what I've been saying all along! Ha ha ha!

About the suffering.......I think we suffer because of the lives we create for ourselves. For example, work annoys us- but we choose the job! Family/friends make us unhappy- leave! Money troubles- do you spend too much on materialism? Even though we all complain about governments, and stuff- we voted for them. I hear you saying, 'but I didn't vote for them'. So what did you do? Did you campaign for the other guy?

This reality is a reflection of ourselves. As UT eloquently put: "With our thoughts we make the world."

MacLeod

Yeah! Like i said "the chains we're in were placed there by ourselves"...cheers Truth!

SIGHT

"Yeah n Sight-well you jus answered that question more for yourself than me. I've heard of that pt but didn't know it exactly...thanks for clarifying it but i think it helped u more than me"

just sharing something new i read since it had relivance. i dont believe it whole heartedly.

"Hey but Buddhism is patient-we've got entire cycles of lifetimes to attain enlightenment and lift ourselves outta this (I had to say it) "matrix"...its a nicer view than the "conform or burn in hell" outlook"

like i said, i dont really put faith in reincarnation. i believe when my flesh dies, my energy will be released, freed to go back to the Source which it came. i dont plan on coming back as a butterfly or another human. ive got bigger things to do. as for heaven and hell, i think you could live both here on earth. and if you are living in hell on earth, and your being is negative, hatefull, depressed, not content or loving, then when you die, you may continue to live in hell, and vice versa.

"And Sight...you'll never believe in Buddism. But me too, to an extent. But I believe in it alot more than most others, and that Almighty thing you believe in can be compared to fate or the delicate balance of infinity and eternity...that'll fulfil most religions in my opinion."

i can feel many of the buddhist philosophies. im not just gonna jump so far as to say i am a buddhist, ever. but i can appreciate buddha all the same. for like i said, regardless of who says it, truth is truth, right is right. if i recognize such, i feel it. as for the Almighty being compared to fate or balance......fate....what is going to happen, is going to happen, it was meant to be. period. balance......everything is balanced.......explain how this is like the Almighty in your opinion. just curious. chatting on this website could by definition be considered a religion. i speak of manmade religions, mainstreem religions. i guess my and anyone elses beliefs are their own personal religion, but i llike relationship better :)

SullenGiRLaFa

i'd listen to it but not live by it lol

texabara

If there is a Matrix that we are all in, then we only need to wake up, but, it is worst.

Reallity has you!

Corporations has you!

The goverment has you!

The church you go...has you!

don´t escape reallity thinking on the matrix, that is exactly what the dominant class wants!

SIGHT

IM STARTING UP MY OWN CORPORATION SO I GUESS I MIGHT HAVE YOU NEXT TEX LOL.

jk, ill only use my corp. for good. to free the minds of young and old alike. promise :)

NightHawk

Originally posted by A Freed Mind
What is the Matrix? Havent you figured it out by now? You are inside the Matrix right now. From the time you wake until the time your head hits that pillow, you are trapped within the confines of the Matrix
I see. and you're in zion, and im sure they have computers there.....

BackDoor

Hi again. Sorry I didn't post here in a looooong time. But it's time for school exams, and thats tuff! :(

So, I'be done a diagonal reading of the lasdt posts....one error I detected was someone saying that we can alter the sistem from the inside...

Let's think.....what is the power of a bit in a computer? What can it change in the rules of the program he is in? In what way can he alter the form of the program, or the computer?

Not an easy question, is it?

In fact, the sistem is a closed universe. With constants. Those constants cannot be altered within the sistem. If something or someone alters them, then, it's because that someone is outside of the sistem.

The question is...can something that is in the sistem escape from it, in order to be able to make changes to it?

This is my ethernal question, the same one I tried to show to you in my metaphor of the mall with the microorganisms (anyone STILL remembers that one? :) )

I've red some interesting stuf in the last posts, reminded me of toughts I had some times ago. That's the problem with human mind. We cannot be allways thinking in these questions, and the dayly life makes us forget some of the answers we get....and refuse others.....one great people that discovered many things were the greeks...why? 'Cause the had nothing to do!

Guess the machines figured that out early!!
;)

SIGHT

BackDoor,

but what if there is no outside or inside. we can look at the universe, all space, time, solar systems, us, everything as one. for to say what is inside or outside you have to have lines of division, but you really cant divide time or space because it is forever changing and moving, flowing. science would be irrelevant if they admitted that their are no closed systems because then every experiment or study would be that of the entire univers which is of course imposible to study because it is limitless, infinant. like, how could you do a study of fish in a lake, without taking in acount all that makes up the lake, the sun that shines, the moon that glows, the trees that shade, etc. the system which science would have you think is "closed" is actually quite open. for everything is everything. we do not know the effect that happenings lightyears away from us are having here, but how could we say they do not? because we are in a "closed" globe??? dont think so.

Truth

Well, the answer to that would be if you believe in a 'God' of some sort. By that, I mean an entirely independent creative entity. Because to create something, you cannot already be a part of it. In which case, there has to be a border or area of definition. To be independent is to be outside of, and not under control. So if there is a creator, there has to be an 'outside'.

BackDoor

Follow the line of thinking of Truth,
If there is a creator, there must be an outside.
Because we cannot change rules from the inside.
.
.
.
...processing...
.
.
.
We are HERE!!!!

Logical-deductive thinking -----> We heve been created.

End of Transmission

(got to go and have Phisics explanation)

texabara

Think in terms of society as a phenomena.

Who creates what? Do we create society, or society is our creation?

Can society exist without humans?
Can humans exist without society?

We are our own creators, ´cause we are society, and we are humans at the same time.

got to go! ciao!

Truth

Well, we see that animals live in societies of sorts: eg Lion Prides, Bees and their Hives, etc, but have just imposed our own boundaries onto something in order to understand it.

SIGHT

"Well, the answer to that would be if you believe in a 'God' of some sort. By that, I mean an entirely independent creative entity. Because to create something, you cannot already be a part of it. In which case, there has to be a border or area of definition. To be independent is to be outside of, and not under control. So if there is a creator, there has to be an 'outside'."

i do believe in God. and that is exactly my point. why wood God be "outside" that isnt the relationship i have with my God. the Almighty is as inside as it gets. its like, when you have a child, you have aided in the creation of life, but that child is not outside of you, what you do affects the child, what the child does affects you. you cant draw a line of separation.

so then, you say to be indepentant is to be outside of. well, i am not independant of the Almighty, for the Almighty is around me as well as within me, for That is the Source from which i come and will go back.

SIGHT

you could look at your body as a system in itself. yet you dont know how your existence is essencial to the universe, for we are in it. its like saying we could lose some brain cells and still function, but what effect truely happens when one is lost? it may effenct the whole body. for some reason, humans love to put boundaries and divisions on what is just one simultaneouse phenomena. i am working to become one with the Almighty, thus the universe, thus the world, thus nature, thus humanity, thus myself for we are all one. one God, one Love, one Breath. medatate on that.

BackDoor

To say that God is not on the outside, is to say that He is not God.

What defines God?

What are the....let's say...pre-requisites ( Intel Pentium V anyone says? lolol) :

God, before all things, must be;

Omni-powerful
Omni-present
Omni-knowning

Omni-powerful means that nothing in this universe would be equivevenl to His strength. Now, if God was IN the Universe, it would have to be smaller than it (it's one undeniable truth).

If he is omni-present, he is everywhere. So He defenitly must be LARGER than our universe. (note that, by saying this, I make it possible for the Universe to be IN God. But this defines God as the outside. This may be where you, Sight, have missed out.)

And, the last, and least (lol), Omni-knowing. If God knows everything he must be an outside expectator, this is obvious. If He was inside, there would be factors than He could not foresee, that He could not.....control. Because let's face it, God is the ultimate tyran. He controls EVERYTHING. He is our own denial to Truth, and to Freedom. But we accept it, because we accept the fact that total Freedom, and consequent knowing of Truth would be devastating to the Human being.

Also, remember what the Bible says. "In the beguining there was God. And god created the Universe. The stars, the planets, the skies..."

Note that "God created" !!
He cannot create Himself. So He cannot be a part of the Universe, period.

Now, we must realise something else.
Who told God all these things?
The Bible, is God's explanation of existence, it's Theory.
And it shows very well some of God's doubts.
He clearly does not know who created Him. Because all He knows is that in the beguining ( this is, as far as He can remeber) there was Him! And before that? He does not know....He cannot understand, so He tries to calm us by saying tha We cannot understand. Reflecting Him own frustration.

We have to accept one thing. God knows everything about HIS creation. The UNIVERSE!

There must be a milion factors that are EXTERIOR to the Universe that He cannot understand. Because he didn't create these rules.

In the bible, there are rules that seem stupid to us, like why didn't God send a nuclear bomb trouth Lucifer's ass the minute he was born?
Why Jesus had to die for all Humanity? And the MOST IMPORTANT AND DISTURBING rule :
Where did the Original Sin came from? Didn't God create Lucifer in perfection? Without any sin?
To answer this we have
a) God is the origin of Sin
b) There are factors that God himself cannot control and understand, that even beeing external to Him/us can affect Him/us

We must see that, like we have our Creator, our God, God himself has His creator.

From here, we open the door to the only truth possible. The one that The Matrix is trying to show us.

The existence of paralel Universes, and alternate realities/dimensions.

Are we so blind to the point of saying that what exists in just what we know? What makes us so important? Isn't this obvious? Who created the molecule from the Big Bang? Or God?

In the movie, the arquitect is God, to the citizens of the matrix. Why? BEcause He is external. As soon as Neo, or any other human gets out of the matrix, into the reality of the arquitect, He loses all power. He no longuer knows what choises Neo will do, nor the future, nor is He everywhere. He is reduced to it's insignificance in this Gigsaw Puzzle that is EXISTENCE.

Like Einstein once said "Make everything as simple as possible....but NOT simpler!"

Woowiiiiwwoooonnnnn
Sistem malfuntion
Brain overload....
...shuting down...

Auxiliar power online...
Re-alining capacitators...repair and recharge.

End of Transmition

agentGunn

ther is no such thing as the matrix it all just entertainment.if you thing that there is a matrix....

BackDoor

If you read my post you WILL realise that I am not saying that there is a matrix just like the film ilustrates....I'm talking about the concept...

...and one more thing...

I will believe that there is no matrix when you can prove it to me...

otherwise, you cannot say that there isn't one. Just like you cannot say that aliens don't exist.

"The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

SullenGiRLaFa

entertainment

BackDoor

I stand here, waiting for a post....and all I get are

4 LOUSY WORDS!!!

DAMN!

DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!

SIGHT

Backdoor,

first, i am not christian, i do not hold the bible to be completely true or "God's word". nor do i call the Almighty "he" for God is beyond human qualities. now, let me chop you down.....

"Omni-powerful means that nothing in this universe would be equivevenl to His strength. Now, if God was IN the Universe, it would have to be smaller than it (it's one undeniable truth). "

this makes no sense and i need you to elaborate....

"If he is omni-present, he is everywhere. So He defenitly must be LARGER than our universe. (note that, by saying this, I make it possible for the Universe to be IN God. But this defines God as the outside. This may be where you, Sight, have missed out.)"

if the Almighty is everywhere, including inside me, than God is inside. you proved my point for me. i have not missed anypoint. you have. for when i say the universe, i mean all things, there is no point that all things stop, and then there is the Almighty hang'n out alone.

"And, the last, and least (lol), Omni-knowing. If God knows everything he must be an outside expectator, this is obvious. If He was inside, there would be factors than He could not foresee, that He could not.....control. Because let's face it, God is the ultimate tyran. He controls EVERYTHING. He is our own denial to Truth, and to Freedom. But we accept it, because we accept the fact that total Freedom, and consequent knowing of Truth would be devastating to the Human being."

do you know your own thoughts? are you outside of yourself? the bible says that "God is a reader of the heart" that is as inside as it gets my friend. now, you lost me with this tyran, etc. nonsense.

" Also, remember what the Bible says. "In the beguining there was God. And god created the Universe. The stars, the planets, the skies..."

Note that "God created" !!
He cannot create Himself. So He cannot be a part of the Universe, period. "

as i said, i do not hold the bible to be completely true or "God's word" for all of humanity. it was written by many men in different languages, translated though the years and has many different versions. too inconsistant for me. if i were you i would learn ancient aramaic and hebrew and read the original scrolls as well as all the rest of "God's word" that humans decided themselves did not need to be included in the bible. so then. what you are saying is that there has never been an origan of anything, for whatever created "god" in your belief had to also be created by something/someone, who also was created on and on?

the rest of what you had to say i wont comment on, but all i gotta say is lay off the pipe homie.