Neo is a clone

Why do I make such a claim? Because there have been 5 previous Neos, and I believe recordings of these previous Neos are what we're seeing on the Architect's wall of screens in M2. All those Neos look alike because Neo is a clone. How can it be otherwise?

Consider the fact that there is no more physically real human sex in AI's world of the pods, where humans have become batteries. AI doesn't let 'em out of their pods to have sex. No, AI is in possession of genetic technology sufficient to grow human beings in an artificial womb (ie, a pod) from infant to adulthood. They never leave their pods, unless...

Having said this, I also believe that AI has altered Neo's DNA, at the very least they altered Neo 5's DNA. I believe that THIS is why Neo 6 exhibits love differently than his predessors. Neo 6's love is FOCUSED on Trinity, it's romantic love. Neo 1 - 5 were more Christ-like, willing to sacrifice themselves for Zion.

Ironically, by altering Neo, making him more focused, the Machines have sewn the seeds of their own demise. Neo 6 is going to defeat them.

Thinking about it, I agree with u.

But here is my question, why r they making him over n over, why not just delete him (destroy him) for once n all???

Because Neo is "the one". With out him they have no one to lead the way for the others in the matrix. With out Neo there is no protector, Morpheous searched for Neo and once he found him, it changed everything obviously. But think bout this, Why doesnt the architect juss create Neo or "the one" the way he wants him to act? You would think the architect would learn more and more each time making the matrix.

charles

Of course, that is how u learn, by mistakes.....

Originally posted by Niva
Thinking about it, I agree with u.

But here is my question, why r they making him over n over, why not just delete him (destroy him) for once n all??? Because they're studying him in an effort to create a program capable of destroying him (the Anomaly). See some of my other threads and posts for lots of details.

that could very well be true. I mean, the actual breeding process of humans in the matrix is completely unknown and poses some very interesting questions about just how much control the machines have. If no one ACTUALLY gets pregnant, in order to justify the creation of new people, just how do they go about simulating the birthing process. THat would have to be a damned tricky process. I mean, do they combine DNA of individuals who do have sex and the new embryo is plugged in once developed enough? If so, do they actually simulat a connection between the pods of the mother and child in order to create the emotional and physical sensations that a mother has from having a child growing and reacting in her womb? In any of these cases, who knows just how much control the machines have and are using to manipulate man's evolution, possibly even hoping to "breed out" the anomaly. How that's all accomplished alone is an interesting subject.

Now, I wouln't be too sure about Neo being clones, just because I think the One is as unpredictable to machines as well as humans. That ties into the already long debates I've had with Eschamo in a couple of other threads, which by this point all I can say to those is that's it's probably time to agree to disagree. Now if Neo did turn out to be a clone, then I'd have to say that Eschamo's theory stands a pertty good chance of being correct. But it is a point of speculation, since it's never made all that clear just what we're seeing on the monitors. Interesting notion though, and not too unlikely.

Originally posted by Rodion
If no one ACTUALLY gets pregnant, in order to justify the creation of new people, just how do they go about simulating the birthing process. I don't think there is any actual birth. We've seen infants in pods before, and pods are like artificial wombs. The thing is, no one is ever born! EXCEPT those who, like Neo, are liberated by Zion.

As far as all mother child contact is concerned, I think that's accomplished in the Matrix. In other words, there is sex and there are births in the Matrix, but when a child is born the reality is, a genetically engineered human being appears as a zygote in a pod. From there the child grows to adulthood and never leaves the pod. Unless...

Thanks for posting, Rodion.

That's all pretty agreeable and obviously true. My question was more of just how deep does that simulation and the control go in the birthing process. I mean, this would mean that the machines would pretty much be in control of exactly who does and doesn't conceive. They could genetically engineer the future of the human race by directly controlling who does and doesn't get pregnant, and on top of that, how is it exactly that they trigger someone's reactions to birth in the Matrix, similiar to Melovignian's desert? And how much reaction to a stimulation in the Matrix does a body have. Would the females body in a pod also undergo hormone changes, etc, associated with pregnancy. If a body can bleed from something that happens in the Matrix, then wouldn't a woman undergo those changes too?. I mean, relevance, yeah, none really. But kinda interesting none the less.

Well I just had a thought off how they could be grown. Ok you know how if you get killed in the matrix you die in real life. The mind makes it real. What if the machines got prostatutes hooked up and made them hosts for the babys. Since they have alot of sex any way there plugged in body would be having all the babys without out them even nowing that they are hosts cause they are oblivous to the real world. Or the machines could have study the human reproductive system and made those pods a electrical embryo. A machine embryo. Its not human but it does the same stuff. They come up with an aritificial sperm and give it to the artificial embryo and it makes a baby.

This has been bothering me. If the machines have genetic control over us, why allow us to remain mentally demanding and needy? Why not dumb us down, and eliminate our need for love etc?

At first I thought it was a hole in the story, but it seems too obvious for the W's to miss. I'll be surprised if it is not addressed in Revolutions.

I've decided that there is more to the machine's need from humans than energy. They are trying to get something from us, learn something, become something that they couldn't become without us. They *must* preserve our genetic and intellectual makeup. The question is-- why? What do they gain by preserving the human race's intelligence?

I'm wondering if the ultimate goal of the non-Smith machines *is* altruistic-- perhaps they are studying us so as to create the groundworks of a society that machines and humans peacefully coexist in. Now THAT would be a twist.

Other ideas?

I dont know I think they just need us for the energy. Cause if there growing humans for an army they dont need it. The centinals are army enough. I think its just an energy source.

Originally posted by Rodion
That's all pretty agreeable and obviously true. My question was more of just how deep does that simulation and the control go in the birthing process. I mean, this would mean that the machines would pretty much be in control of exactly who does and doesn't conceive. Now you're talking! HERE IS WHERE CHOICE ENTERED THE PICTURE. AI TRIED WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IN THE FIRST MATRIX. THEY dictated which individuals came together to raise the children they chose to breed. The choice introduced at the recommendation of the 'intuive program', which was almost certainly now the Oracle, was the choice of who to love, and who to love DICTATES WHAT CHILDREN ARE BORN. Yes!

Originally posted by Rodion
They could genetically engineer the future of the human race by directly controlling who does and doesn't get pregnant, and on top of that, how is it exactly that they trigger someone's reactions to birth in the Matrix, similiar to Melovignian's desert?Yes! Right on the money!

Originally posted by Rodion
And how much reaction to a stimulation in the Matrix does a body have. Would the females body in a pod also undergo hormone changes, etc, associated with pregnancy. If a body can bleed from something that happens in the Matrix, then wouldn't a woman undergo those changes too?. I mean, relevance, yeah, none really. But kinda interesting none the less. These are good questions, but I'm afraid speculation would yield very little toward further understanding of the movie. We'll have to wait for the experimental evidence... Not!

Great responses:).

I'd just like to say that only Neo's code is a clone, i.e. what makes him The One within the Matrix. Physically he's just some dude, because the Merovingian I think was pretty clearly the first One. Why the Merovingian is alive though is curious, if he had to perpetuate the process of Zion destructions, that would have rebooted him as well...

Originally posted by albluemen
This has been bothering me. If the machines have genetic control over us, why allow us to remain mentally demanding and needy? Why not dumb us down, and eliminate our need for love etc?Why allow us? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T STOP US. The want us to be good little batteries, and the first Matrix and the pods were their solution, but the whole thing broke down because THEY COULDN"T GET PAST OUR NEED... FOR CHOICE!

Originally posted by albluemen
At first I thought it was a hole in the story, but it seems too obvious for the W's to miss. I'll be surprised if it is not addressed in Revolutions.

I've decided that there is more to the machine's need from humans than energy. They are trying to get something from us, learn something, become something that they couldn't become without us. They *must* preserve our genetic and intellectual makeup. The question is-- why? What do they gain by preserving the human race's intelligence?

I'm wondering if the ultimate goal of the non-Smith machines *is* altruistic-- perhaps they are studying us so as to create the groundworks of a society that machines and humans peacefully coexist in. Now THAT would be a twist.

Other ideas? So long as we have something that they don't they have to keep us alive so that they can try and get it. What is this thing? The Anomaly, which grew out of CHOICE, the coice of whom to love and have children with.

Choice had to be introduced to make the first Matrix work, and choice produced the Anomaly, the very same SYSTEMIC Anomaly that corrupts their Matrix (via Exiles) and forces them (AI) to have to reboot the Matrix.

The Machines have preserved us in the form of Zion to produce The One, the best possible example of the Anomaly, so that they can examine it under stress, study it. Neo is guided and tested, run through an obstacle course of programs created by AI (the Architect, et al). His responses to every stimuli are recorded and analyzed to find exploitable weaknesses and any other valuable knowledge. THIS IS THE QUESTIONS AI WANTS TO ANSWER: WHAT IS THIS ANOMALY THAT HAS GROWN OUT OF CHOICE AND HOW DO WE BRING IT UNDER OUR (MACHINE) CONTROL?

Originally posted by Whatisreal
I'd just like to say that only Neo's code is a clone, i.e. what makes him The One within the Matrix. Physically he's just some dude, because the Merovingian I think was pretty clearly the first One. Why the Merovingian is alive though is curious, if he had to perpetuate the process of Zion destructions, that would have rebooted him as well... I believe the only reasom the Merovingian and Persephone and the Keymaker and Oracle and many others exist in the Matrix is as a TEST SUITE for Neo. Collectively these programs collaborate to guide Neo to his next test and then test him. Neo's every response is recorded and the resultant data reduced and analyzed to yield usable results in achieving AI's ultimate aim: CONTROLLING THE ANOMALY, BEING ABLE TO DESTROY IT OR AT LEAST STOP IT, PERHAPS EVEN USE IT.

As for the Merovingian being 'LIKE NEO' (Persephone's comment before the kiss), this does suggest that the Merovingian may have been a previous One. Here's my theory to explain her comment.

I believe the Merovingian was always a program, but one BASED ON a Christ-like, Neo-like, personage, someone who actually lived. FOR THE FIRST MATRIX, AI WAS TRYING TO CREATE A HUMAN PARADISE, A CAMELOT, OF YOU WILL. I BELIEVE THE MEROVINGIAN WAS DESIGNED BY THE MACHINES TO BE THE KING OF THE FIRST MATRIX. I BELIEVE HE WAS PATTERNED AFTER WORLD SAVIORS AND KINGS OF OUR PAST, ESPECIALLY KING ARTHUR (CAMELOT) AND, OF COURSE, HIS NAMESAKE, THE MEROVINGIAN KINGS OF FRANCE (500-800 AD).

Persephone's comment can now be understood to refer to the Merovingian's SOURCE MATERIAL, the original human beings and legends after whom he was modelled. The Merovingian is a SIMULATION, a program, but one based on the best humanity ever produced.

I honestly think you're right, and this is just kind of a hole in the theory. I mentioned in another post that if all the machines wanted was energy, why not just give everybody lobotomies and let that be it. Or just start breeding elephants or something else. Now as far as why they would use humans, well, that can be explained by the fact that they probably knew more about man's physiology and psychology from studying them during the war. Why not just lobotomize, or in some way just dumb down the human race, I don't know. I highly doubt it has any serious plot relevance whatsoever, it's just one of those suspension of disbelief things. You gotta just figure there had to be a reason and let that point go.

Oh and btw, whatisreal, the merovignian is not the first one. The Merovignian is a program, he's referred to as one specifically by the oracle.

BTW, I just caught something I had missed before. When the Oracle first explains exiles to Neo, and how they chose exile over deletion, Neo's response is "programs hacking programs? why?" In other words, the way exiles manage to avoid deletion is they basically hack the matrix themselves, and hide in it, That's what chosing exile means to a program, hack the Matrix and hide in it. So essentially, all exiles are hacker programs now, just as Neo, Trinity, and many of the saved were once hackers in their Matrix lives. Not sure the total relevance of that, but oh well. I didn't quite get Neo's comment til just now is all.

That would explain why persephonie says such a thing doesnt last. But were are yall getting the idea that marovingean was the 1st one?

Originally posted by Rodion
I honestly think you're right, and this is just kind of a hole in the theory. I mentioned in another post that if all the machines wanted was energy, why not just give everybody lobotomies and let that be it. Or just start breeding elephants or something else. Now as far as why they would use humans, well, that can be explained by the fact that they probably knew more about man's physiology and psychology from studying them during the war. Why not just lobotomize, or in some way just dumb down the human race, I don't know. I highly doubt it has any serious plot relevance whatsoever, it's just one of those suspension of disbelief things. You gotta just figure there had to be a reason and let that point go.This is a good point. Why not just lobotomize them? Here's my answer: Because you can get more OUTPUT by ENGAGING the mind. That is, your human batteries become MORE EFFICIENT when their minds are engaged.

Originally posted by Rodion
BTW, I just caught something I had missed before. When the Oracle first explains exiles to Neo, and how they chose exile over deletion, Neo's response is "programs hacking programs? why?" In other words, the way exiles manage to avoid deletion is they basically hack the matrix themselves, and hide in it, That's what chosing exile means to a program, hack the Matrix and hide in it. So essentially, all exiles are hacker programs now, just as Neo, Trinity, and many of the saved were once hackers in their Matrix lives. Not sure the total relevance of that, but oh well. I didn't quite get Neo's comment til just now is all. You're right in what you've said here, Rodion, and you're moving closer to my side;). BUT... you failed to latch onto the biggest point of all here: THOSE PROGRAMS CHOSE NOT TO BE DELETED, TO BECOME EXILES. THIS IS THE ANOMALY IN ACTION, and not just at the human level, now MACHINES HAVE CHOICE.

When choice was introduced the Anomaly appeared, and the real Anomaly is the possibility of PROGRAMS CHOOSING!

Originally posted by eANIMIA
That would explain why persephonie says such a thing doesnt last. But were are yall getting the idea that marovingean was the 1st one? Persephone says to Neo before the kiss, referring to Merovingian, "He was once like you."

Oh how could I have missed that thanx.

I can see your point

Originally posted by Hoodlumhavoc
I can see your point.

But one can argue why you would think that.

interesting thoeries guys. Neo could very well be a clone, I didn't see it before
The machines cloned neo, inserted the false prophecy through the oracle, morpheus freed him in order to develop the all powerful perfect human specimen.
A combination of man + machine will eliminate the need for the human battery. Next produce random clones based on Neo's end product. The machines want to evolve by creating a human/machine with no limits.

Originally posted by eblah2
interesting thoeries guys. Neo could very well be a clone, I didn't see it before

The machines cloned neo, inserted the false prophecy through the oracle, morpheus freed him in order to develop the all powerful perfect human specimen.

A combination of man + machine will eliminate the need for the human battery. Next produce random clones based on Neo's end product. The machines want to evolve by creating a human/machine with no limits. Well, kinda... First of all, the prophecy was probably not a lie. It will be fulfilled in Revolutions. The war will end after a final battle and Neo/Zion will be victorious. Which means the Machines will be defeated, so what they want won't really matter. The clone thing is really only important in trying to understand how Zion/Neo keep being destroyed and rebuilt. Same Neo everytime... He must be a clone! Thanks for posting:).