Zion destroyed

marquesa

I actually do think that the best way to unsolve this mystery is to discovery that there is a matrix within the matrix!! But that is my opinion so no matter..

One thing is for sure he can't choose the 27 people because he chooses trinity remember? The architect made him choose and he made a different choice from the rest of the "chosen one's" .. Also the architect is the way of the matrix to avoid Neo gaining more power.. Enough o realize and control the matrix within the matrix (you can read my other post - all explained there)

Big kiss

Vanessa

UnbrokenMirror

read my post under "ONE BIG QUESTION...."

Amphion

The whole theme of M2 is the theory of determinism and causality. If the architect truly bought into this he would have to admit that there was no way even he could possibly know what will happen when Neo goes through the door back into the Matrix rather than into the mainframe.

The principle of causality is that one cannot know the consequence of things which have not occurred. Since Neo is the one anomaly since he is the only thing which has a "choice" he is the start of a causal chain. This makes him more powerful than anything in the Matrix, oracle and architect included, except perhaps Smith (we shall see) and so the Architect's explanation of what will happen if Neo goes through the door on his left is ludicrous because he cannot know the consequence since the other five "one's" all took the other door

mr.xontas

"No, Zion is not another sub matrix. too many of us who like the movie dont wanna see that " <------ this is not a argument, it's like saying "i wanne read my book so the sun may not go down because i dont want it to"

as i see it there is no other way than that zion is a submatrix (and not zion but the realworld)

why else would neo be able to use his powers outside the matrix and how does the oracle know what neo is dreaming in the real world.
why did the walkway break prefenting one group of finishing there task and forcing trinity in to the matrix and forcing a choice on Neo
and how did the oracle and the dream of neo know that ahead of time if the effent forcing this choice takes part in the real world!

i think the architcht is tell the truth but i also think he is the onlyone in the matrix that knows of the other matrix

that is why he doesnt care when neo goes to save trinity!
"the matrix" will be destroyed but "the realworld" matrix will go on
so he doesn't care.
IF this is true then it also means that no-one knows why people are in the matrix or howmany people are in there!!
this is because all the prove we have of how the matrix works comes from the realworld and that is ALL a simulation.

so IF its true we dont know out enemy or even if they are enemy's

if you can show me where i'm wrong please do so but dont tell me "i dont like it" or "i think that is just stupid" support it please

TheDrakemaster

Zion is real and has been rebuilded by the 23 chosen people, free to leave the matrix.

Jaded

Why would the machines allow 23 people the "freedom" to leave? Isn't that the whole point? The machines think they can control everything and everyone.

TheDrakemaster

to rebuild Zion, so that the 1% can also be controled ( or something) it's a bit strange, I agee...

neoANAGRAM4one

this is the purpose of zion

the one chooses 23 people. he get's killed so they don't know history. those 23, with the help of those released, rebuild zion. zion is the holder of that 1% that doesn't except the matrix.

the most important reason that zion is around is to give neo a choice. without that choice, there is no decision.

CraHan

Even more important is the fact that the architect needs the people in Zion to keep the matrix from crashing. Please allow me to elaborate. The people in Zion are the ones who find the potential that will ultimately become the One. If Neo had never met Morpheus, he would have never become the one. The Zionists are also the ones who lead Neo to the Architect where he has to make the choice. The people in Zion are an important tool for the architect as it is they who help the Architect to keep the matrix from its system crash (by bringing him Neo, even if they do it on a subconscious level).

As a note, the system crash which is imminent if neo choses the door to save trinity has become more and more apparent in the movies. Morpheus tells Neo at one point they have saved more minds in the last 6 months than in the last 6 years. Apparently more and more people can be freed more easily from the matrix. The system is becoming more unstable and losing its 'grip' (i can't find a better word) on the humans that are still plugged in.

Of course, once that the system crash has been prevented, they don't need Zion around in its current state so they destroy it and all its inhabitants. But they need to repopulate it again so that by the time the next system crash is imminent they (humans in Zion) have already located the next One/anomaly and are leading him to the Architect again.

That's my technical take on it. :p

TheDrakemaster

All true to a certain level I guess, but it's still kind of weird that the machines can control the Zionists so that they wil find the one etc...

Chrisfll

I think it makes perfect sense that Zion and the “real world” are part or are a sublevel of the Matrix. The Architect states that Zion has been destroyed 5 previous times and that people are seeded for it to start all over again. Why would the machines allow people to escape from the Matrix to the real world only to destroy it repeatedly? It makes sense if Zion is the product of the Architect once he realized he can keep people plugged in while allowing them the think they have escaped into reality. Pure genius.

Mersault

The Archetect is LYING!!! Why the heck would the machines be trying to find the codes to Zion if they controlled it? They would already be inside if they controlled it, therefore there would be no point in waging this huge strike on it, and the first movie wouldn't make sense all together. Neo is the only one there has ever been, and there has only been one Zion. The Archetect was freaked out about Neo's power, and decieded to try and decieve him so that he stopped believeing that the humans could win the war. That's the key, believeing in yourself, and the machienes know that. So what's he got to do to stop Neo? Keep him from believeing. So there you go.

kat

wot does it matter? if neo was to pick the 16 gals an 7 guys.....the machines r still diggin down to Zion so either way humans r gunna b destroyed

marquesa

That is what is so confusing.. If that truly happens, next time (next Neo) the Machines come again and the choice has to be made all over again and the digging is closer to Zion then the last time. They can't rebuilt what was destroyed by the machines, another thing if he chooses 23 people from the matrix (and dies) who teaches this people to save all the others, to hack the matrix and even to read the program? exactly .. this means that he has to stay in the new Zion .. and if he does why doesn’t he tell what is going on and prevent the destruction of Zion .. BUT MOST IMPORTANT IS .. why does he (the Architect) needs do destroy the only power they have!! The MATRIX?????

kat

Originally posted by marquesa
That is what is so confusing.. If that truly happens, next time (next Neo) the Machines come again and the choice has to be made all over again and the digging is closer to Zion then the last time. They can't rebuilt what was destroyed by the machines, another thing if he chooses 23 people from the matrix (and dies) who teaches this people to save all the others, to hack the matrix and even to read the program? exactly .. this means that he has to stay in the new Zion .. and if he does why doesn’t he tell what is going on and prevent the destruction of Zion .. BUT MOST IMPORTANT IS .. why does he (the Architect) needs do destroy the only power they have!! The MATRIX?????

maybe the architect doesn't kno that the machines r goin 2 zion? if he's inside the matrix.....?the architect doesn't need 2 destroy the matrix.....wif the matrix ther has 2 b choice...ther always has 2 b a choice like in the 1st matrix...it failed because ther was no choice....he must give a choice.....an neo has to make it i dunno y tho....an he thinks that for the benifit 4 him it would b btr for neo 2 choose door 1( 16 gals 7 guys) cos he needs to wipe the matrix an he'll think that all "the one"'s will choose door 1 because they will probably feel thats btr for ther species...but now neo's chose the door bak 2 trinity the architect didn't want him 2 choose that door *possibly* and ther species will maybe cum 2 an end. an cos the machines r diggin an gonna destroy zion an if the matrix crashes everythin will b lost an no more humans....which won't that mean that the machines will die 2??? cos they depend on humans 4 survival????

neoANAGRAM4one

think this might help you guys. at least feed the fule for discussion lol.

There has been at least one neo so why not 5 previous? rememer morphius was talking about how there was one born in the matrix who had the ability to change it at will.

the architect doesn't destroy the matrix. he only kills the people in zion(whether it be another matrix or the real world, it doen'st matter. zion is just there to catch the overspill from the base matrix). neo has to make a free choice(can't be forced) because only a choice made freely will give the machines what they want.... for his energy source to be sent out over the matrix which will put to ease the minds of the people who are fighting subconsciously against the matrix(remember, "we've freed more minds in the last 6 months as the entire time combined" things are getting worse. people are rejecting at an ever increasing amount). so that is why neo is needed to go through the door and make the decision.

as far as who teaches?... there could be an ambassador sent or little clues that are left for the 23 to find and figure out. once they hack into the matrix and meet the oracle after that it's obvious.

i think as far as the codes go, it's kind've like a power tier(sp?). men on top know what's going on but they can't let the other programs know because when they face deletion and escape, they can reak havick. let the information go early another words. so, I think that the agents in particular are given a mission, find the codes for the zion mainframe. this keeps them busy and adds to the idea that the rebels have truly escaped the matrix.

i think this covers the majority. tell me specifically what you think and we'll work out an agreement lol.

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
think this might help you guys. at least feed the fule for discussion lol.

There has been at least one neo so why not 5 previous? rememer morphius was talking about how there was one born in the matrix who had the ability to change it at will.

the architect doesn't destroy the matrix. he only kills the people in zion(whether it be another matrix or the real world, it doen'st matter. zion is just there to catch the overspill from the base matrix). neo has to make a free choice(can't be forced) because only a choice made freely will give the machines what they want.... for his energy source to be sent out over the matrix which will put to ease the minds of the people who are fighting subconsciously against the matrix(remember, "we've freed more minds in the last 6 months as the entire time combined" things are getting worse. people are rejecting at an ever increasing amount). so that is why neo is needed to go through the door and make the decision.

as far as who teaches?... there could be an ambassador sent or little clues that are left for the 23 to find and figure out. once they hack into the matrix and meet the oracle after that it's obvious.

i think as far as the codes go, it's kind've like a power tier(sp?). men on top know what's going on but they can't let the other programs know because when they face deletion and escape, they can reak havick. let the information go early another words. so, I think that the agents in particular are given a mission, find the codes for the zion mainframe. this keeps them busy and adds to the idea that the rebels have truly escaped the matrix.

i think this covers the majority. tell me specifically what you think and we'll work out an agreement lol.

rite ok....that was confusing :confused: :confused: wasen't the whole purpose to see the architect because the human race was going to b wiped out but if he chose the 16 gals an 7 guys they would jst hav 2 start over an stuff????? u say that the humans will survive...but ther inside the matrix an then if he like....re writes it doesn't that mean that the pple inside die 2???? an he has to re wirte it cos 2 many pple r hackin into the matrix an he's like wiping it clean which includes killing every1 with it???? i dunno and technically ther wasen't any other "the one"'s.....sum1 in another forum said that to be the 1..as the prophecy says "the one will hail the destruction of the matrix"...none of them hav done that all they hav dun is let it be wiped.....lol i think neo is goin to hail the destruction of the matrix an kill every1 inside it! ur post was kinda confusin so if u culd like......make it a little simpler soundin lol am jst the stoopid 1

neoANAGRAM4one

ok, that's fair lol.

let's see.... purpose of the architect was to give neo a choice. save trinity or save the human race.
1) save trinity - his code will not be sent out over the matrix causing everyone to reject it. this combined with the fall of zion will cause the extermination of the human race.

2) save human race - picks 23 people then neo is killed and his code is sent over the matrix putting everyone at ease. they take what neo has learned and do an upgrade to the matrix. my understanding is that this will not bring it completely offline for an overhaul, but will only make it better so that more people will accept it.

the purpose of hacking into the matrix is to repopulate zion in addition to the original 23 and their children. this gives, in the end, neo the choice between trinity/zion and the whole human race.

as far as neo beating the machines and ending the matrix thus killing everyone in it...... well I think that that would be the end result. bright side? this will benefit the human race as a whole since they will not be under the machines rule.

if it doesn't destroy the matrix but rather just the control the machines have over the matrix, then I believe that they would release people in groups. this way you don't have billions of people with no food supply and no government. these people would have lived their lives in the matrix anyway... no no harm done.

I think that this would answer most of your questions in a bit better way.

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
ok, that's fair lol.

let's see.... purpose of the architect was to give neo a choice. save trinity or save the human race.
1) save trinity - his code will not be sent out over the matrix causing everyone to reject it. this combined with the fall of zion will cause the extermination of the human race.

2) save human race - picks 23 people then neo is killed and his code is sent over the matrix putting everyone at ease. they take what neo has learned and do an upgrade to the matrix. my understanding is that this will not bring it completely offline for an overhaul, but will only make it better so that more people will accept it.

the purpose of hacking into the matrix is to repopulate zion in addition to the original 23 and their children. this gives, in the end, neo the choice between trinity/zion and the whole human race.

as far as neo beating the machines and ending the matrix thus killing everyone in it...... well I think that that would be the end result. bright side? this will benefit the human race as a whole since they will not be under the machines rule.

if it doesn't destroy the matrix but rather just the control the machines have over the matrix, then I believe that they would release people in groups. this way you don't have billions of people with no food supply and no government. these people would have lived their lives in the matrix anyway... no no harm done.

I think that this would answer most of your question
s in a bit better way.

lol thanks that was less confusing :D yea i suppose ur rite cos the humans in the matrix that will b killed haven't reali lived ther lives yet....once ther unplugged then they'll live ther lives so i suppose thats ok...but then neo has to live his life knowin that he destroyed all these pple's chances of ever being "free" and am glad now that he chose door 2.....i neva knew he'd die!!!! ='( he's 2 hot 2 die!!!!!!!! lol but i fink he's gonna die in the 3rd 1

Unplugged03

But Neo has already died. He died when Smith shot him. Then he became the One. And Cypher tried to kill him. Unless he'll do whatever it is he's supposed to do, then maybe there will be nothing to protect him? (i.e., he will have fulfilled his destiny?)

marquesa

The architect DOES DESTROY Zion and ALSO the Matrix .. and you still don't explain how do they know about zion when thhey wake up .. who is there to help them like Neo was helped on the First Film? and regarding the programm i meant the code!! It takes months to understand it .. It is impossible for 23 people to rebuilt Zion without help and guidence .. even to teach them how to fight etc etc etc ..
Also i don't understand the termination of the matrix!!

well i'm sleepy so i'll go to bed
post more tomorrow

gurrlpunk

i agree with the theory that there is a matrix within a matrix. the "real world," also known as ZION, to me, is also a matrix or dreamworld. the people of ZION believe they are real and that they're "free," but i think that they're just like the people who are still "plugged in." it's a really complicated topic and i think that no one will be able to fully understand until REVOLUTIONS comes out (obviously).
this is just my opinion. there's a lot of theories out there that have great supporting evidence which is just another reason why this movie(s) is just soo damn great! quote CYPHER- "what a mind job" :p

Neo_Andersion

What I think is that humans would combine with matrix to form a higher form of life. As described as the below statement:

As Larry and Andy Wachowski say in The Art of The Matrix (Newmarket 2000), the shooting script for The Matrix is "... not exactly what people saw in theaters. ... An example ... is in the final speech by Neo (scene 219) which was altered when test audiences didn't know the word "chrysalis". ...". At the end of the shooting script, Neo says to The Matrix:

"Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I imagine you can also feel me. You won't have to search for me anymore. I'm done running. Done hiding. Whether I'm done fighting, I suppose, is up to you. I believe deep down, we both want this world to change. I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be truly free, truly free, you cannot change your cage. You have to change yourself. When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its leaders and laws. But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace. I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free your mind, you'll find the way."

However, I believe that to be able to do the above, humans need to fight the machines(which we will see in Revolutions) so that they're able to change themselves and therefore, free their minds.

The fight between Smith and Neo would be something like personal feud, it does affect the outcome of the story as that would stop another major threat made by Smith when Neo kills him(anyone should know by now the intention of Smith).

kat

Originally posted by gurrlpunk
i agree with the theory that there is a matrix within a matrix. the "real world," also known as ZION, to me, is also a matrix or dreamworld. the people of ZION believe they are real and that they're "free," but i think that they're just like the people who are still "plugged in." it's a really complicated topic and i think that no one will be able to fully understand until REVOLUTIONS comes out (obviously).
this is just my opinion. there's a lot of theories out there that have great supporting evidence which is just another reason why this movie(s) is just soo damn great! quote CYPHER- "what a mind job" :p

isn't zion jst another programme? seeing as wen that wee dude came up 2 neo an gave him the spoon...an it had been bent u kno the whole "ther is no spoon" how could it hav been bent if it was outside the matrix??? they must b in another programme an then at the end were he like zapps those sentinals...isn't that like him "freeing his mind" in this programme???? he reliezes that ther in another programme an he got the insiration from the wee spoon???........well this film, only larry an andy understand fully lol its 2 confusin BUT GREAT :D:D:D:D:D

kat

"Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I imagine you can also feel me. You won't have to search for me anymore. I'm done running. Done hiding. Whether I'm done fighting, I suppose, is up to you. I believe deep down, we both want this world to change. I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be truly free, truly free, you cannot change your cage. You have to change yourself. When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its leaders and laws. But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace. I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free your mind, you'll find the way."

wen does it say that
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

neoANAGRAM4one

neo made that statement at the end of m1 when he's talking into the phone. and then he flies off. those words weren't used exactly because, if the guy above can be trusted, people didn't know what the word chrysilis meant. I think I like how it ended better anyway.

and to the question about how the newly started zion could decode the matrix and who started them out.... I was watching m1 again last night and have the answer. when morpheous is talking to neo when he wakes up after he 'pops', he starts talking about why he brought him. he says that there was once a man born inside the matrix who could change things to his desires. that man freed the first of us. he then taught us what we needed to know.

no obviously those were not the exact words, but the meaning is exactly the same. he freed them and then taught them. at chow today, i'll try to get the exact wording. anyway, keep the questions coming so this post stays alive. I hate having to scout new posts lol

neoANAGRAM4one

When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth: 'As long as the Matrix exists the human race will never be free.' M1

these are the exact words. I think that if he had contact with them to teach them certain things, he would know what was needed for them to have a chance to free others so the next one could come along. so, knowing this, he would teach them how to read the matrix. after all, who better to teach them then the person who sees the code in everything in the matrix?

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
neo made that statement at the end of m1 when he's talking into the phone. and then he flies off. those words weren't used exactly because, if the guy above can be trusted, people didn't know what the word chrysilis meant. I think I like how it ended better anyway.

and to the question about how the newly started zion could decode the matrix and who started them out.... I was watching m1 again last night and have the answer. when morpheous is talking to neo when he wakes up after he 'pops', he starts talking about why he brought him. he says that there was once a man born inside the matrix who could change things to his desires. that man freed the first of us. he then taught us what we needed to know.

no obviously those were not the exact words, but the meaning is exactly the same. he freed them and then taught them. at chow today, i'll try to get the exact wording. anyway, keep the questions coming so this post stays alive. I hate having to scout new posts lol

the exact words r "i kno ur out ther..i can feel you now....i know ur afraid...ur afraid of us...your afraid of change...i don't know the future...i didn't come here to tell you how this is goin to end....i came here to tell you how its goin to begin...i'm going to hang up this fone..and i'm goin to show these pple wot u don't want them to see....i'm goin to show them a world....without you. A world without rules or controls, without borders or boundries. A world were anything is possible. Aworld were anything is possible. Where we go from there...is a choice i leave to you" :D

were is the mention of chrysils used?

kat

neoANAGRAM4one

i know that there were supposedly two scripts. one in 96 and the other revised in 97. this may've been in the 96 script or, it was in the final script but was changed because the lack of understanding by the audience. honestly, this is the first that I'd heard of it, but i'm going to run through both scripts and see if i find any mention of it.

neoANAGRAM4one

NEO (V.O.)
Hi. It's me. I know you're out
there. I know you're working as
fast as you can to catch me.

We CLOSE IN ON the racing columns of numbers shimmering
across the screen.

NEO (V.O.)
I thought I should call and let
you know how things stand.

We DIVE THROUGH the numbers, surging UP THROUGH the
darkness, sucked TOWARDS a tight constellation of stars.

NEO (V.O.)
I know you're real proud of this
world you've built, the way it
works, all the nice little rules
and such, but I've got some bad
news.

We realize that the constellation is actually the holes
in the mouthpiece of a phone. Seen from inside.

NEO (V.O.)
I've decided to make a few
changes.

'96 script

neoANAGRAM4one

NEO (V.O.)
Hi. It's me. I know you're out
there. I can feel you now.

We CLOSE IN ON the racing columns of numbers shimmering
across the screen.

NEO (V.O.)
I imagine you can also feel me.

We DIVE THROUGH the numbers, SURGING UP THROUGH the
darkness, SUCKED TOWARDS a tight constellation of stars.

NEO (V.O.)
I know you're real proud of this
world you've built, the way it
works, all the nice little rules and
such, but I've got some bad news.

We realize that the constellation is actually the holes in
the mouthpiece of a phone. Seen from inside.

NEO (V.O.)
I've decided to make a few changes.

'97 script

now whether or not these scripts are vallid since they're from the net, don't know. I've seen some pretty whacky scripts out there. one, neo is portrayed as the chosen poo shovelor. that was a real winner lol. anyway, this is what i've found so far. no mention of chrysilis. maybe there was another version?

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
NEO (V.O.)
Hi. It's me. I know you're out
there. I know you're working as
fast as you can to catch me.

We CLOSE IN ON the racing columns of numbers shimmering
across the screen.

NEO (V.O.)
I thought I should call and let
you know how things stand.

We DIVE THROUGH the numbers, surging UP THROUGH the
darkness, sucked TOWARDS a tight constellation of stars.

NEO (V.O.)
I know you're real proud of this
world you've built, the way it
works, all the nice little rules
and such, but I've got some bad
news.

We realize that the constellation is actually the holes
in the mouthpiece of a phone. Seen from inside.

NEO (V.O.)
I've decided to make a few
changes.

'96 script

i'm watching it rite now an i put the sub titles on an jst copied it!!! maybe we hav diff versions or sumthin =S but honestly thats wot it says on mine

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
i know that there were supposedly two scripts. one in 96 and the other revised in 97. this may've been in the 96 script or, it was in the final script but was changed because the lack of understanding by the audience. honestly, this is the first that I'd heard of it, but i'm going to run through both scripts and see if i find any mention of it.

i got the collectors edition about.........2 months ago so yea 1 will b older an the other will b newer

neoANAGRAM4one

hmmm, i wonder if what i have is someone putting their pack they bought on the internet, thus making it illegal hmmm

and now i've advertised that i have it hmmm

oh well, i guess if it's illegal, i'll know soon enough

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
hmmm, i wonder if what i have is someone putting their pack they bought on the internet, thus making it illegal hmmm

and now i've advertised that i have it hmmm

oh well, i guess if it's illegal, i'll know soon enough

lol.......

C@ndyFl!p

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
M1

these are the exact words. I think that if he had contact with them to teach them certain things, he would know what was needed for them to have a chance to free others so the next one could come along. so, knowing this, he would teach them how to read the matrix. after all, who better to teach them then the person who sees the code in everything in the matrix?

You can't teach someone how to read the matrix's code... they either can of they can't... if they can, they are 'one of the ones', if they can't they are just a person.... simple as that. You cannot pass-on inherent abilities.

neoANAGRAM4one

i think i remember cypher saying, " i don't even see code anymore, i just see blonde....." do you think it means that he's just getting better or that he was taught to read code and now just sees it

kind've like when you learn a languange. you have to translate to that language in your mind to speak it. then, when you become fluent, you think in that languange.

kat

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
i think i remember cypher saying, " i don't even see code anymore, i just see blonde....." do you think it means that he's just getting better or that he was taught to read code and now just sees it

kind've like when you learn a languange. you have to translate to that language in your mind to speak it. then, when you become fluent, you think in that languange.

but thats different cypher an tank etc they can only read the matrix...were as the 1 see's the matrix.....wen hes inside the matrix all he can see is the code lined all along the walls objects etc....the others cannot they can only learn it..like neoanagram4one says its like a 2nd language

marquesa

For anyone who saw the animatrix (first) you can see that the machines tried to live with the humans but we decided to destroy them instead .. so i believe that it's possible a gathering of the 2 worlds .. peace for does who live in the matrix and does who live outside.. That was all along the point of the machines we humans were to scared and selfish to coexist.

:(

neoANAGRAM4one

i don't really understand what you were trying to say on that last post, so if you could, would you clarify a bit please? thanks

Mersault

Originally posted by neoANAGRAM4one
i think i remember cypher saying, " i don't even see code anymore, i just see blonde....." do you think it means that he's just getting better or that he was taught to read code and now just sees it

kind've like when you learn a languange. you have to translate to that language in your mind to speak it. then, when you become fluent, you think in that languange.

Cypher CAN NOT read code. He was just joking around with Neo. don't over analize things, it can ruin the true meaning

neoANAGRAM4one

let's say that he was joking, what makes you think he couldn't read code?

marquesa

Of course he can read the code.. LOL .. he said that meaning the he no longer needs to try to see he just see it like his own language .. LOL .. he joined that idea with the idea of the blond (humor part in the movie)

marquesa

trust someone who saw the movie several times :)

kat

Originally posted by marquesa
trust someone who saw the movie several times :)

THAT MEANS ME :D:D:D:D:D:D:D LOL 7 TIMES WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.........don't trust me wif aneefin not even a pencil sharpener

o0
0o

:).........sorry.......hyper

TheDrakemaster

Cypher was just joking around a bit; he didn't laugh though.:rolleyes: :eek:

Mersault

It was supposed to be a funny comment in the movie. And I HAVE seen the movie quite a few times...I own it. Thank you very much. And how would Cypher be able to read code? They can look at it, and see any disturbances in it, but they can't read it.

kat

Originally posted by Mersault
It was supposed to be a funny comment in the movie. And I HAVE seen the movie quite a few times...I own it. Thank you very much. And how would Cypher be able to read code? They can look at it, and see any disturbances in it, but they can't read it.

ye but how cum....wen neo gets up..like rises from the end don't morpheus look at the screen...u kno like he's watchin it like a soap or sumthin.......?????? and then trinity is lookin at the screen saying "run neo run"

TheDrakemaster

They can read it or recognise elements in it, but they can't see in code like Neo; they can read it though.

kat

Originally posted by TheDrakemaster
They can read it or recognise elements in it, but they can't see in code like Neo; they can read it though.

ye..eno can see it thru his eyes were as they can onlee read it off the screen

Mersault

Neo only sees code with his galsses on though, right? At least that's the impression I got. Oh yeah, you're right about the end of M1.

kat

Originally posted by Mersault
Neo only sees code with his galsses on though, right? At least that's the impression I got. Oh yeah, you're right about the end of M1.

ermmmm.....i dunno about the glasses....i think he see's it all the time in the matrix because at the end of M1 wen he cums bak from the dead......he can see the code...but he don't hav glasses on

Mersault

That's true. hmm...I wonder why he takes his glasses off to kiss Persephone then...you can't really mean it when you kiss someone when they're just scrolling numbers and characters.

kat

Originally posted by Mersault
That's true. hmm...I wonder why he takes his glasses off to kiss Persephone then...you can't really mean it when you kiss someone when they're just scrolling numbers and characters.

well he neva kisses trin wif his glasses on....he wanted 2 show that he culd truely feel the luv...u kno so it wasen't fake....kno wot i mean????

Mersault

I agree with you, but don't you think it would be weird to kiss a random grouping of scrolling characters?;)

kat

Originally posted by Mersault
I agree with you, but don't you think it would be weird to kiss a random grouping of scrolling characters?;)

hey i wouldn't mind!! a kiss is a kiss man! lol nah but i suppose he dusen't hav an option! dus he! its the way it is its not like he's gunna say take me out so i can kiss trin? an am sure he's used 2 the code by now so it must b normal....dam wish i could kiss him :( lol

Mersault

Good point.

Nick|ess

I still think the whole MIAM theory is sound.

Why do they destroy and then let Zion be rebuilt, even though its only a Matrix itself?

and why do the agents want the mainframe codes from Zion, when the architect in all likelihood has them (if Zion is a matrix itself)...??

Because its all a system of control.

Remember, when Morpheus said "the prophesy says.." and Neo interrupts saying "the prophesy is a LIE"...

the prophesy was created by the architect, to give the 1% of humans who are anomalies, something to focus on. Even the Oracle said (in M1), Morpheus is so consumed by the prophesy, that he'll follow it to his death (or something like that).

So basically I think of Zion as a buffer/cache. To store all the rebellious / anomalous humans, who reject the primary matrix. Once the buffer is full, what does the matrix do...
it deletes it.

How? By using 'sentinels'.

Why doesn't it just erase the whole Zion program?

probably because its too difficult to have to erase everything and rebuild from scratch (think of reinstalling your operating system vs, uninstalling your programs).

Comments?

Just my 2c

cal5000

Originally posted by Mersault
The Archetect is LYING!!! Why the heck would the machines be trying to find the codes to Zion if they controlled it? They would already be inside if they controlled it, therefore there would be no point in waging this huge strike on it, and the first movie wouldn't make sense all together. Neo is the only one there has ever been, and there has only been one Zion. The Archetect was freaked out about Neo's power, and decieded to try and decieve him so that he stopped believeing that the humans could win the war. That's the key, believeing in yourself, and the machienes know that. So what's he got to do to stop Neo? Keep him from believeing. So there you go.

It would make perfect since if Zion were a second Matrix, because all of the machines aren't aware of this fact. If only the Architect, the Oracle and probably the Merovingian know the truth along with Neo, then that would keep everyone functioning quite efficiently. Agent Smith apparently figured this out--how else can you explain Smith transferring to Bane and Neo controlling the machines at the end? That wasnt an EMP, the machines just stopped functioning when hit with an EMP, they dont wiggle and jiggle like they did.

Not all of the machines would be privvy to everything that can be known. Some machines just follow their programs (the sentinels). There is a definite separation between the actual machines and the sentient programs that operate the Matrix and the Mainframe. It is not fully understood as who runs the actual Matrix. The Architect designed it but did not say he RUNS the Matrix.

cal5000

Originally posted by Nick|ess
I still think the whole MIAM theory is sound.

Why do they destroy and then let Zion be rebuilt, even though its only a Matrix itself?

and why do the agents want the mainframe codes from Zion, when the architect in all likelihood has them (if Zion is a matrix itself)...??

Because its all a system of control.

Remember, when Morpheus said "the prophesy says.." and Neo interrupts saying "the prophesy is a LIE"...

the prophesy was created by the architect, to give the 1% of humans who are anomalies, something to focus on. Even the Oracle said (in M1), Morpheus is so consumed by the prophesy, that he'll follow it to his death (or something like that).

So basically I think of Zion as a buffer/cache. To store all the rebellious / anomalous humans, who reject the primary matrix. Once the buffer is full, what does the matrix do...
it deletes it.

How? By using 'sentinels'.

Why doesn't it just erase the whole Zion program?

probably because its too difficult to have to erase everything and rebuild from scratch (think of reinstalling your operating system vs, uninstalling your programs).

Comments?

Just my 2c

Neo dying and coming back to life didnt make him the One. Being able to actualize his will on the Matrix does. Remember that the kid, killed himself (in the Animatrix) and self-actualized himself into the real world. Neo told him he saved himself...

And how did that spoon get from the Matrix to the Real World? Neo has to find that potential and figure it out, but I think he already knows the Truth--MIAM--it lame but clever.

cal5000

Originally posted by kat
ye..eno can see it thru his eyes were as they can onlee read it off the screen

Yes, they can read it. What do you think the operators do?
Tank said 'I don't even see code anymore, I just a see woman in dress or man on street..' or some crap in the first movie. They can all read the data flow, why would there be multiple screens of data if they couldn't? The operators know exactly where they are and whats going on. The whole Neb crew watched the screens when Neo fought Morpheus and the last Neo Smith fight in the subway, well the ones who weren't dead that is.
The operator from Enter the Matrix when he saw Morpheus and the Keymaster on the truck, said "Eww, I can't look..."

The glasses have nothing to do with Neo seeing code, he sees it all the time, youd get used it.