Blood

Just a curiosity....

During the fight scene at Merovingian's Neo is cut when he stops a sword with the side of his hand. You see a small drop of blood fall to the floor.

Is he cut in real life? Maybe we dont see the cut intentionally afterward.

This is relevant because right before Bane attempts to kill Neo before getting on the ship leaving zion, he cuts is own hand with the knife (probably just testing its mettle). Discovered, Bane instead shakes Neo's hand and wishes him well.

Did Neo's old wound connect with Bane's new one?

Ive read a number of threads trying to figure out a theory why Neo could "feel" the sentinels and stop them. The one with his famed kiss with Persipone swapping spit is a good one.

Another is this:

Smith, being a former agent of the matrix (and having command of sentinels) who was "merged" with Bane, exited the confines of the matrix as a resident program (kind of a possession) inside of the Bane "shell" with total control. When he shook Neo's hand there was a merging of programs (Neo's "the One" program, and the Smith program). This gave Neo the ability to "hack" into the matrix as a "Smith" user and stop the sentinels in thier tracks. Perhaps M3 will revel what Neo gave to Smith as well (outside of the inital release Neo gave him at the end of M1).

The Persipone theory can replace my Blood theory at any stage here, but the results still hold the same.

Admittedly, a flaw in the Blood theory is that we arent sure if Neo's hand was cut after he exited the matrix, but, we have seen during fights, actual damage to internal organs and blood spurting from mouths. There has to be some physical connection there.

Feel free to analyze this and critisize this. Its been three days since Ive seen the movie and Ive been arguing with my wife about what actually meant what for most of that time. We love this ****.

FoamRubber

I Totally agree with your thought that if neo's and bane's blood got mixed up then neo could have stopped the sentinals.

As far as why the lines he cut on his hand were parallel, Ive got no idea, was probably just for movie use, not of any real theoretical value.

I believe Neo stopped the machines because Neo and Smith are somehow a part of eachother because of the Hall scene in M1 and Smith now has control over most of the sentinals. And because Neo (as well as any other human who can enter the matrix) is a cyborg he has sometype of "internet" connection between him and the sentinals and perhaps the Matrix. Recall that Neo kept seeing visions of Trinity falling, and everytime the ending was a bit different, perhaps he also has a connection to the Matrix and/or the Architect. Please fill free to take a stab at my theory. :D

UHH,

I think you all are forgetting that the reason Agent Smith is so mad at neo this movie is because he is no longer "an agent of this system" and thats because neo killed agent smith and sent him to the architecht. And the oracle said that all programs have a choice, face deletion or choose exile. SMith has chosen exile. And how could he control the sentinels if he is no longer an agent of the system.

Oh yeah, you can really tell in one of the first scenes because smith gives neo his earpiece.

You're wrong Osyris, Agent Smith did have to face deletion, but he simply chose not to, there is no exile in the Matrix you either die or live on. Agent Smith isn't angry at Neo, he simply want what all people with power want, more power. Smith did get into the doorway that leads to other doors, but that doesn't mean that he spoke with the Architect, they'll explain that in Revolutions. Remember when Neo sat at the bench with the Oracle she explained what UFOs, monsters, ghosts and Agent Smith were. They are all programs that are doing things that they are not suppose to. The things that Smith are doing wrong are: 1. Still living 2. Copying himself 3. Hacking into the Sentinals, along with real humans. :D

Btw, on Agent Smith... did you see in M1 that he actually removes hi ear piece (disconnects from the agent program) when talking to Morpheaus... Saying how sick he is of this place and how much he wanted out. Well... in M2 he is out...

:cool:

I agree with you zplus, Smith did disconnect himself from the Matrix in the first movie. He's not really sick of the Matrix itself, he sick of the people in it. But because there are humans in it he'll do anything to change the Matrix, such as copying himself hundreds, if not thousands of times. He will also copy himself into Bane so he live outside in the "real" world. ;)

yeah, Smith wants total control over The Matrix, as he already has alot of control over the Sentinels. What else could you want? Control over the Matrix, and the Real World!

God I hate Smith... but i like his shades ;)

Bane actually hides his bloody hand behind his back (after shifting the knife to it), and shakes with Neo with the other one.

Oh, and Downstreamer, Osyris and you mean the same thing, in general. The term exile is used as 'removal from the command system.' They live on within the Matrix, but not as part of the control system.

I remember seeing Bane scrape the blood off his hand with the knife, while his hands were behind his back and then he shook hands with Neo with the hand that the cuts were on. I'm confused :confused:

My response was based on hearsay. I asked this same question a couple of days ago, and someone knowledgeable (I forget who) responded. I don't remember the scene personally.

But if you think about it for a sec, wouldn't Neo have noticed the blood that was transferred onto his hand? It's be kinda silly if Smith/Bane used the bloody hand....

I'm going to have to see that movie again. :)

Neo coulda thought he just had a sweaty handshake...

How many people do you know that sweat blood?

Besides, Neo shakes hands with Bane with his right arm. He stopped the sword with his left arm.

here was obviously an editing/filming error though as bane extends his left arm to Neo, and Neo appears to shake Bane's hand with his right arm. That would not work unless one of them had a hand on backwards....

Im gonna have to see the movie again.....and again. Wish movies came out on dvd faster.

ZPLUS,

Are you saying that the oracle is wrong? she said that programs face deletion or can choose exile and remain in the matrix.


U all are delusional. SMith controlling the sentionels? wanting to control the whole matrix?


AHAHAHAH

I dont think smith can or wants to control the whole matrix. But, I have no doubt that he once controlled the sentinels. The question is whether or not being unplugged from the mainframe has caused him to lose this ability. Personally, I think he not only has that ability, but he has gained kind of a SuperUser access from his connection with Neo. Will the conflict between Neo and Smith destroy the matrix? If you watched the trailer for revolutions you know there are quite a bit more Smith's available to fight Neo.

Well being the one................. wouldn't you think that neo has the same functional control over the matrix (if not more so) as agent smith. Thus rendering neo completely capable of downing the sentinels (if the matrix had control over the outside world).

First off, smith has no control ovre the matrix. If he did, neo would be dead and smith would have no need in copying himself because one smith would be enough to control the matrix.

Sencondly, smith is sick of "existence". Therefore, since his existence is soley to kill neo... why would smith prevent sentinels from killing neo?

Something tells me that the matrix has no functional control over anything in the "outside world". If they did, wouldn't agents and sentinels coordinate with each other to locate the broadcasting ship so the sentinels could destroy them?

Something tells me that the matrix has no functional control over anything in the "outside world". If they did, wouldn't agents and sentinels coordinate with each other to locate the broadcasting ship so the sentinels could destroy them?

If Im not mistaken they did do this at the end of M1. This is how the Neb was found and sentinels sent to destroy it.

the sentinels did find the neb, but I doubt it had any correlation with the agents.


If the agents were capable of controlling sentinels, our guys wouldn't last more than 30 seconds in the matrix. Because the agents would be able to see where the hack came from and deploy sentinels to that location. Last time I saw reloaded (8th time mind you) neo was in the matrix for quite some time before the sentinels found the neb. And if the agents did help in the locating of the neb, then the sentinels would have no need to "patrol broadcast zones" .

My point is that the software matrix and the hardware matrix co-exist but do not control one another. Yes, information flows between the 2. But if was the same entities that control the software matrix control the hardware matrix... there would be no lag and thus no loop hole for anyone to hack the matrix. Especially during that scene when there were 15 freedom fighters in one room with 3 agents outside. Why the **** would they fight or make their presence known. Would'nt it make more sense to let them sit there and call in a sentinel to destroy them from the outside?

Smith definitely knows something, he's aware of the fuller spectrum of the matrix (i.e. his line "still using all the muscles except the one that counts", i.e. the brain). He appears to almost have a nemesis affection for Neo in this new film, not the wholehearted hatred for humans he displayed with Morpheus in M1.

My theory, is that Smith has become a bit of a nihilist. His behaves in the film like a self replicating virus. When Smith "disobeyed" this opened his mind to something outside normal program protocols, changed his thinking. What is the purpose of a virus. Essentially they are simply random infections with the only purpose being to destroy. Smith is now a nihilist, he wants everything destroyed, he wants to stop Neo because he doesn't want him to fulfill the traditional role of the one and restart the matrix, because that would interfere with Smith's plans to eliminate it. Smith would then take this destructive spirit into the real world, hence his detonating the EMP charge early in the counterstrike.

(Also I like the irony of his humans are viruses speech in M1 considering what he has himself become, but that's just a sidenote)

I must say, Smith's return is one of the most brillieant explanation for the return of a dead bad guy I've ever seen, and one of the few times I've ever seen it serve a plot so well. Can't wait to find out where all this actually is going.

and oh yeah, did it strike anyone as odd seing an agent bleeding after morpheus cut him on the semi truck. Never seen an agent bleed before. Any signifigance, especially after seeing Neo bleed in the fight scene with the Merovingians provoked the comment that he was human afterall. Was it the blood, or just seeing that he could in fact be injured that prompted that? I don't know, but blood and body function shows relevantly several times in this film, so could be another thing to get the wheels turning.

I believe your theory is correct, Foamrubber. The mixing of Neo's blood with that of Bane/Smith allowed Neo access to the Mainframe from outside the Matrix. That's how he shut down the Sentinels.

What did Neo give to Smith? Liberation. Smith does not know it yet, but he is a victim of THE ANOMALY. What do anomalies ultimately become? The Oracle and her bodyguard (can't remember character's name), are examples; they are GOOD programs running inside the Matrix that the Architect cannot terminate. The Architect has designed Zion/Neo as a means of studying the anomaly and eventually defeat it.

This is my opinion and everyoone has one ...Squash the blood theory ....Neo bled in m1 and m2 ....Bane bled in m2 while he had the mind of Smith....Smith never bled in m1 or m2......If there was any blood shed by Bane and shared by Neo, so what... it wouldn't add up to a hill of beans....

The kiss thing with Persiphony and the extra lipstick and Neo .........Whoa.....

Blood thoery may not be the actual one, but im sure he gained his outer-matrix powers by some sort of contact with someone who has power inside the matrix. Whether it was his bloody handshake with Bane, or his swapping spit with Persipone, or even his 2 physical interactions with Mr Smith, it had to be physical contact which allowed Neo to do what he did outside the matrix.

I dont believe he has the same powers outside the matrix, just the ability to affect anything that is hooked up or controlled by anything/anyone connected to the matrix.

Well.. I'm going to kill the blood theory right away.

When Neo shakes hands with bane, Neo's hand is NOT cut. How do you know this you ask.. Neo is on his way to see the Oracle when he meets Bane. The Oracle then tells him to go meet Merovingian.

1st problem solved.

I believe Neo has gained the ability to remake the Matrix as he sees fit. He revives Trinity.. he moves faster than ever before.. and Link can't see that it's actually Neo. His digital pattern has somehow changed since he entered the Architects domain. I believe he entered through the Source. The Architect states that the right door leads BACK to the source.. thereby implying that Neo has been at the Source.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

wrong on back to the source I'm afraid, he says the one door leads to the source, and the other BACK to the matrix.

But I do agree the blood theory is bunk.

I am wondering what the significance of Bane cutting his hand was...

Obviously Neo had no cut at the time of the handshake...thanks for pointing that out

Maybe Bane wanted to make sure he (Smith) was really in the "real" world by causing himself pain and/or seeing his blood flow. As for the parallel lines I dont think they mean anything.

In other movies such as Predator with Arnold Shwarzennager.. there was a scene when Arnold and his men are crossing over a rope bridge and the indian guy is pulling up the rear and suddenly he stops because he senses the Predator approaching and turns to prepare for battle and cuts his chest with his on knife while the others look at him like he's crazy because they know he doesn't stand a chance against this powerfull and invisible alien....yet he stands there and waits for it as the blood runs down his chest ......

I think the cutting of Bane's hand to draw blood is to show a lack of fear and a lot of macho testosterone raging inside...in other words .....It's a man thing

I sincerely doubt that Smith is getting tribal on us in the real world. More than likely it has no deep signifigance, cutting one's self is usually just a sign of psychosis of some sort, which I'm sure Smith in a human body would display a lot of.

The only reason I can think of why Smith/Bane cuts himself is to remind him that he's in a real human body now and in the real world. Normal rules apply here and as a result: he's vulnerable (at least a lot more vulnerable than in the matrix).

I like the predator analogy a lot...

But the big Indian cut his chest as a way to attract the Predator, not as anything tribal methinks. Knowing that the Predator sees heat, I think he may have been distracting him so the others could escape. A noble sacrifice.

Bane could have just been cutting his own hand as someone would pinch themselves to make sure they're not dreaming.

FYI: Bane also cuts his hand a third slash (perpindicular to the other 2 cuts, if that matters) in a clip of "Enter the Matrix" where it shows him on the ship full of dead workers just before that ship triggers the EMP that caused the counter attack to fail.

P.S. The game rocks!!!

Good one foam .....I like your thinking on the Blood theory and I too agree with you .....but on the predator theory your just a tad bit off center .....you see the predator could see his victims body heat ....remember when Arnold was bleeding but was covered in mud... the predator could not see him or the blood because the mud cooled Arnold off ....but like I said before your Bane theory is good and very helpfull to us all...

But the big Indian cut his chest as a way to attract the Predator, not as anything tribal methinks. Knowing that the Predator sees heat, I think he may have been distracting him so the others could escape[/B]

Aye, thats exactly what I meant. He knew heat would attract Predator so he sacrificed himself to save the others.

Originally posted by FoamRubber
Just a curiosity....

During the fight scene at Merovingian's Neo is cut when he stops a sword with the side of his hand. You see a small drop of blood fall to the floor.

Is he cut in real life? Maybe we dont see the cut intentionally afterward.

This is relevant because right before Bane attempts to kill Neo before getting on the ship leaving zion, he cuts is own hand with the knife (probably just testing its mettle). Discovered, Bane instead shakes Neo's hand and wishes him well.

Did Neo's old wound connect with Bane's new one? Here was my first response to this.

Originally posted by Eschamo
I believe your theory is correct, Foamrubber. The mixing of Neo's blood with that of Bane/Smith allowed Neo access to the Mainframe from outside the Matrix. That's how he shut down the Sentinels.I no longer believe what I implied above. Just wanted to tie up this loose end. I remember realizing that the handshook took place long before Neo's hand was cut at Merovingian's, and I've since created a thread called 'Stopping the sentinels - Neo goes wireless' to explain my true understanding, http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2178.

Let me know what you think.

when smith was cutting his hand, it was the new plesure of pain. This is what i think and i might be wrong. Also i think he was cutting into his left hand.

Originally posted by Eschamo
Here was my first response to this.

I no longer believe what I implied above. Just wanted to tie up this loose end. I remember realizing that the handshook took place long before Neo's hand was cut at Merovingian's, and I've since created a thread called 'Stopping the sentinels - Neo goes wireless' to explain my true understanding, http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2178.

Let me know what you think.

I am wondering what the significance of Bane cutting his hand was...

Obviously Neo had no cut at the time of the handshake...thanks for pointing that out

Maybe Bane wanted to make sure he (Smith) was really in the "real" world by causing himself pain and/or seeing his blood flow. As for the parallel lines I dont think they mean anything.

Yep, I agreed that my original theory was wrong, timewise its just not possible. I worte that post after seeing movie one time. Now that Ive seen it 4 times I should have my "facts" straight.

I still have no idea if Bane cutting his hand as any significance to anything whatsoever. Maybe he just wanted to see his own blood to prove to himself that he (Smith) was real.

I WILL MAKE MY RESPONSE BRIEF. AFTER READING ONLY THE FIRST PAGE OF REPLYS, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ONE THING.HOW COULD BANE AND NEO EXCHANGE BLOOD IF BANE CUT HIMSELF BEFORE NEO CUT HIMSELF. NEO GOES TO SEE THE ORACLE BEFORE THE FIGHT IN THE PARK AND THE FIGHT IN THE RESTURANT,AND HE DOESN'T RETURN TO ZION.THERFORE TO ME THE TWO SEPERATE CUTS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH EXCHANGING BLOOD OR PROGRAMS, BUT RATHER TO PROVE THE ONLY HUMAN THOUGHT.

can i be tottaly honest? I think you guys are stretching :) powers from blood and a kiss?? I believe it to be impossible.. There must be a better explanation, you are just to eager to find an answer..

Hope no harm done

Big kiss

Vanessa

There has to be logic behind the blood and the kiss. The writer's didn't write a movie about Fantasy, they wrote a book about Science Fiction. There's a big difference, and science fiction doesn't talk about things that are impossible science fiction is based on made up stories that have to do with scientific facts and reasoning.

Originally posted by FoamRubber
Just a curiosity....

During the fight scene at Merovingian's Neo is cut when he stops a sword with the side of his hand. You see a small drop of blood fall to the floor.

Is he cut in real life? Maybe we dont see the cut intentionally afterward.

This is relevant because right before Bane attempts to kill Neo before getting on the ship leaving zion, he cuts is own hand with the knife (probably just testing its mettle). Discovered, Bane instead shakes Neo's hand and wishes him well.

Did Neo's old wound connect with Bane's new one?

FoamRubber

IF you haven't heard yet, Neo shook Bane's hand BEFORE he left to see the ORacle. He could not have mixed blood with Bane, as it was the Oracle that told him where to find MErovingian....

Basically, Neo shook Bane's hand before the cut ever took place on NEo's hand.

This has probably already been said but lets face it, the thread is full of so many replies and i'm very lazy:

bane shake's neo's hand before they go to see the oracle
once they see the oracle they go to the merovingians place and that is where neo cut's his hand on the sword.

so no, neo's hand wouldn't have been cut when bane shook it.

I'm too lazy to read through all the replies, so I apologize if I'm just repeating something that I missed while skimming through.

Anyhow- one, and I'm sure someone has pointed this out, at least- Neo's hadn't gotten the cut on his hand until after the scene with Bane. Also, I don't think things like cuts transfer over to the real world. The only time we've seen anything along those lines was when Neo's mouth was bleeding after his attempt at the jump program. The Matrix may have made that real, but it doesn't seem to me like it could cause skin to split open of it's own accord. If so, that would open a whole 'nother can of worms. What about Trinity's arm after the fight with the Twin, for example?

Secondly, I think Bane/Smith's reasons for cutting his hand was just a fascination with the ability to finally really feel. In the Matrix, we never saw any of the Agents bleed, so this might be why. This is probably something that was just added to the 'upgraded' agents, since we see the agent that Morpheus fights bleeding.

Sorry for being so long-winded, hopefully this will sum everything up nicely.

Smith hates humans so that justifies self-mutilation. Would he have kept cutting if neo didn't walk by? Probably. I think he's just testing the ability to be human and human limits, like others previously said. Remember, he got his butt kicked bad by Neo in M1. So he's just making sure he can kill Neo in the realworld for good.

I forgot to mention this before, but I think there's definitely some signifigance to Persephone's kiss. In Enter the Matrix she coerces Niobe into kissing her, as well.

Maybe some sort of program that's inserted into her lipstick, sort of like the Merovingian's slice of cake?

The Hand that Bane was cutting was his let hand, when the Kid yelled out for Neo, heswitched the knife from one hand to the other, and shook Neo hand wishing him good luck.......No blood transfusion was made.......also another point to disprove this, (don't know if it's alrerady been posted)....

But Neo fought with the Merovingian Thugs way after Bane shook his hand.....I got the movie on Dvd (bootleg) but i should remember which scenes came before what......... i seen it more times than i can remember.....

Originally posted by zplus
Btw, on Agent Smith... did you see in M1 that he actually removes hi ear piece (disconnects from the agent program) when talking to Morpheaus... Saying how sick he is of this place and how much he wanted out. Well... in M2 he is out...

:cool:

Also remember he tells Neo, I am free but not totally free.....something like that.
I have to see the movie again to tell u word for word of what he told Neo. But it was something like that...