Oracle: What do you think gave her her power of knowledge?

I have a couple of ideas, but curious what you people have to say about the matter.

-WC-

I figure there's a succession of Oracles and the knowledge is passed down.

Interesting thought I never considered.

It wouldn't explain how she knew Trinity would fall in love with the one or that Morph would find the one.

-WC-

My theory is kinda whacked out but here goes.

Darwinism works. Some of the coppertops merely evolved. This would explain how and why the kiddo's from the first Matrix flick could move things seemingly with their minds.

The cool thing about human beings is that eventually, over generations sometimes, we begin to "get" things a little faster. Like the whole "There is no spoon" concept.

I think the Oracle is just gifted with like the sight. She's in touch with her realities, both the bogus one thrown in front of her and the mechanics of the reality that actually is. She understands the nature of the matrix and therefore can understand how each person is unique and where their strength lay including what each person is going to do next. Ex: Mouse was a good hacker but if he could bust a move like Trinity he wouldn't have been killed so quickly, Trinity is excellent at acrobatics and combat, Morpheus is an excellent teacher and follows his convictions.

In my opinion, The oracle is a strategic thinker greater than the world has ever known.

However, what she has in mind power she obviously lacks in body as she seems stuck online, trapped in the matrix. Afterall, if she could be unplugged as it were, wouldn't she have been unplugged by now?

Perhaps the oracle is actually a catylyst for the resistance. Perhaps it is her understanding of the matrix combined with the ability to influence action that makes her so right. Like would Neo have broken the vase if she hadn't said anything? Perhaps without the matrix she would be a vegetable. Now, why would she want to help bring about an end to her own existance? These are my theories/questions.

What do you think?

i think she was born that way
trninity was destined 2 love the 1-morphius 2 find the one-neo 2 b the one and the oracle 2 b a prophet type thing
i think ur ideas kik as$ 2

she woke up one morning and boom her visions came out of no where...

Originally posted by redpill1290
i think she was born that way
trninity was destined 2 love the 1-morphius 2 find the one-neo 2 b the one and the oracle 2 b a prophet type thing
i think ur ideas kik as$ 2 \
i feel the exact same way

if her visions worked outside the martix

do you think they might work outside it?

Originally posted by redpill1290
i think she was born that way
trninity was destined 2 love the 1-morphius 2 find the one-neo 2 b the one and the oracle 2 b a prophet type thing
i think ur ideas kik as$ 2

Exactly, remember that the Architect said that the anomoly issue was predicted hence it could be controlled. With all the people above being born a certain way to lead to "the one" reloading the matrix it is possible that the oracle was just made that way by the system.

it is possible

i dont believe that...

that she was born with the power to see into the future

?????????????????????????^^^^^^^

the question should be :HOW THE HELL A PROGRAM CAN KNOW THE FUTURE????
A program can't know the future unless it has already happened or other possibility,unless the future is already programmed...
First possibility:if it has already happened that means that each time the anomaly is Neo and each time he has been found by Morpheus and each time he loves Trinity.
Then,this is why she knew Neo would have to save Morpheus from the Agents and he would have to wait "maybe a second life" to be the One,letting us understand that she knew Neo would die.Because I can't see how the Oracle, A PROGRAM PLEASE ,would have known that Morpheus was going to be caught by the Agents just by "FORSIGHT".
Because,for Morpheus,Trinity and Neo,one can argue that the Oracle manipulate them but for the Agents,how would have she known that they would catch Morpheus???How she would have known that Neo had to chose between Morpheus' life and his own???
In that case there's no future or the future only happen when something that was not meant to happen in the simulation happens...

Second possibility:the future is already programmed(the future can be "guessed" by knowing the Matrix code) and the Oracle knows it because she knows the Matrix code in part...But no good explanation comes to me:so i'll end here.(lol)

ok, i'll try to reply to that one.

here is a quote that i posted in another thread and that could be an explanation of Neo's dreams:

"As in a dream it is our own will that unconsciously appears as inexorable objective destiny, everything in it proceeding out of ourselves and each of us being the secret theater manager of our own dreams. So also in reality the great dream which a single essence, the will itself, dreams with us all, our fate may be the product of our inmost selves, of our wills; and we are actually bringing about what seems to be happening to us."

this is attribued to Thomas Mann but it is supposed to be quoted from Schopenhauer who was somewhat a pessimist bouddish (it's really oversimplfied).that can be Neo's visions.


on first though i agree with you, visions of a possible future in the movie appears to negate the notion of free will, however, if Schopenhauer, Kant and Spinoza can't agree on determinism, it's really hard to guess the position of the movie on it, at least before M3. i would tend to believe that there is free will in the matrix.

from the religious point of view, it really depends once again your which side you're on,but in gnositism and buddhism, as far as i know (i'm quite basic at both) reincarnation is here until you makes the correct choice and become enlightened.this works for most religion that believe in reincarnation.

it's also hard not to see the Quantum physics explanation, assuming that such matrix would require QP computers to works (informations travelling at the speed of the light).
Bullet time = Quantum effect (you can reduce the soeed of light)
in QP comps any information ,Qbits, can have several state AT SAME TIME, which is in complete contradiction with the idea that an information is either true or false at a given time.

the world would be based on multiverses (in fact, an infinity of universe, or Worlds within Worlds,like M1), separated from a few millimeters by gravity (neo can defy gravity).

Time being only a dimension from 11, it would be easy to skim through it, and see the future for the oracle,the architect or the merovingian). this also induces the notion of an infinity of propositions (you can make the correct choice in 1 world but not the other, in another one, you would not even be there), but does not negate the notion of free will once again.
in an older interpretation on QP, another universe would be the complete opposite of that world, time being dimension, it would go backward.you could see the future by accessing it.this tends to negate free will ,although it is not that simple once again.

back to the topic, even if they can see the future, they still can make their choices.
*enters the oracle with some sweets*


you made the choice Neo, now you must understand it

another point: the archtect says that times make no sense to him.

i'm sure other people will elaborate more on theology.

:)

TO Jebulum

Well,on reading your post,the least thing I can say is that you're a really hardcore addict.
So what is the probability that the W. Brothers have of reading those philosophers you cite in order to explain Neo's dream in particular?
I've looked for my "Physique Quantique" book(I'm not so good student as you are) the so famous example of the cat of Schroedinger(that you must know) dealing with the problem of the quantic computers.
Now that I've read it I can make one remark:a q-bit is not SIMULTANEOUSLY in different states.
A q-bit is not in the states 1 and 0 at the same time but IN ONE state "HALF 0 HALF 1"(half doesn't suit but you understand(I guess)
In the case you don't :the "fonction d'onde"(wave function??) is though being half the one of the state 0 and half the one of the state 1,its density of probability is not the sum of half the one of the state 0 and half the one of the state 1.
That's elementary(yes I know).
It's like when you try to describe the atom using all the wave functions of all the nucleons and electrons:there's an infinite possibilities for the state of the whole system,but at a given time the state of the system is unique tough it is the combination of wave functions strictly different.
So(in brief )the information carried in a q-bit is not multiple but single and not ambiguous.

yes you can consider that as Quantum computing creates n "qbits", each in an independent unobserved state of superposition of 1 and 0. Together, they constitute a machine with all possible combinations of states superimposed. since you can't open the box, you can't really say it wasn't at same time tho. :0

the evaluation of several Qbits is the clue and no bits hold the complete, 0 or 1, 'truth'

most of what i posted is oversimplified indeed, and i was about to talk about the cat not dead instead. i'm not a student, i code on MIPS everyday (ASM, closer to binary than english) hence why i'm interested in computers and quantum reverse engeneering which will rock our world soon, and there are tons of good books and reviews about that.

There are also some awesome experiments in the progress prooving that an atom can simultaneously located in two separated places. half true, half false.

i link i could found,
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/quantum/openhouse.jsp

it's really a famous experimentation.

when i was a student , i had to suffer over 10 hours of boring philosophy per week, so i've got a few notions.i believe Wb directly question so many themas, it's hard to believe none of it is sheduled.i might be wrong, but then you'll have to convince me of it. :D


btw, you are a student for your life, unless you decide you don't need to when you get a job.see, i've limproved a lot in english over the past year.:)

i will quote an interview from Wb saying they wanted to make a movie that would mix philo,QP, zen buddhism and mythologies in a nowadays full action movie.

Glad to see I was at least right in my reply.
Well for having done some "basics" elements of Quantum Physics,I know that space and time are not related like in Newton's Mecanics and that the "postulats" of the Physics say that the electron can only be localised in a region of the space with a certain probability.So if the probability of being in a region of space for an electron is 50% that means that the probability of not being there is also 50%:it's half true or half false.
But I think I don't teach u something but I clearly understand what you were talking about.
so if u can give me some good links to improve my knoledge,I'll be quite "happy".

i think she got fuked really hard and then she just got smart

And based on the cat of Schroedinger that a q-bit must not be in the state 0 or 1 because that causes a "decoherence".
Thanks for the link I didn't pay attention.

isnt it because she is like a vampire, ghost, etc...shes a program that is avoiding deletion so shes been there and seen it all before...kinda like merovingian when he says to neo "i have survived ur successors'' or something along those lines

aye, johnstanp2, the fact that i code in ASM doesn't make me a crak in Quantum Comp, but i'm sure that what i said is a coherent résumé, someone will correct me if not anyway.

if you're interested in the subject and spend one or two weeks on the net searching for it, you'll surely know as much as me about the subject. :)
i'm a crack at MIPS tho, but this is also called absolute pointless knowledge (well, lucky, i got a job because of it.).

you'll find a lot more threads about the theology of the movie, see a bouddhist 'Spark' in the matrix, mixed up with a main love story based on christianity,with more touches of judaism, and gnosis.

i like that movie.in Fact i haven't seen something that enjoyable since 2001:A space odyssey, Clockwork orange, and Man bites dog.
Even tho, there are defaults and errors.

I have a theory about it you might find it farout but this is how I see it, .. try to explain that in english, .. its not my mothertounge so: sorry for grammer mistakes.

I think that everything existing in the world is in complete order, history is already determined before it starts. Everything deveolps according to a certain plan, to keep the order in balance. Think of matter and anti-matter - when they meet they anihilate one another. Thats what I mean with order. I think to make happening everything that is determined to happen, you need people who will cause the happening. Therefore they need to have certain characteristics and things have to happen to them to make them do what they do. This is getting very complicated.

Example: Person A will cause a war in year 2007 and its part of the plan, that means it is supposed to happen and therefore certain requirements need to be fullfilled.
For example he needs to come in a position where he can cause a war, people who could stop him have to be eliminated somehow. If Person B wants to kill Person A, .. Person C has to kill Person B before he can do it. .. and everyone of the 3 persons, will have a determined life too, cause they are needed in the plan. Every single existence is needed in the plan somewhere.

Its comparable to an infinite line of arithmetic information that will at the end equal 1 or something. if you take just one number away you will not get the same number in the end.

However everything that happens might be somehow calculable and since the Oracle is not a human but might be program she is able to calculate all happenings.

that's also a nice theory, in complete contridiction with what i stated as being my opinion, and the matrix would be a lot more like greek mythology than previously thought,still i like it, but that would ruin all the effects and questions from M1...

or do you mean in real life ??
then the matrix reloaded must serve a purpose.scary thought...

Fate exsist inside the matrix, we have the choice to change it as long as we are aware of it!

The oracle fcan see the path of the written fate

which is why she is a guide.

She was a program designed to see the path of fate.

like peraphone was a program desinged to understand human emotion! although thats yet to be proven