I have figured it out!!!!!

after seeing the Matrix reloaded about thirty times in one week, something just clicked. Of course this is up for debate! So here it is ---

Topics introduced in reloaded:

1. neo is a wildcard, being part of the machine world and part of the human world.

2. he was meant to end the cycle of destroying zion and restarting a new version of the matrix.

3. this story mirrors the transition from the old testament to the new testament. With neo( meaning new) being jesus.

4. the architect being satan creating an artificial world to imprison humans

5. the problem is choice!!! you see the machines don't need the humans to survive, but the machines can't make the choice to kill them( you can't program free will), therefore they manipulate neo into making the choice for them( thus the two doors and trinity).

6. If you really listen to what the architect said, you would find that zion is not the "real world". It is another simulation built to keep the 1 percent who refuse the program in control where they continue to use the anomaly for self improvement of the matrix illusion.

Now lets talk about Revolutions

We all know what is going to happen: the overall battle between good(neo) and evil(the machines). The matrix v6.0 will be "virtually meaningless" in this movie. Destroying the program won't destroy the machines, it will just wake the humans up add much needed size to the flamed battle of man vs. machine.

1. the big problem with revolutions is that hollywood is goin to put there stamp on it. So guess what in hollywood's eyes neo is a superman, batman, spiderman,etc.... And superheroes have to a Superenemy(in this case, "former agent" smith)

2. so we have the fight between smith and neo. smith wants to be free. gain control over the matrix and the humans. and Neo has to stop him.

3. Spoilers

- in mid 2004 the directors are creating a "real life" matrix. It is called matrix online(v7.0). It will be totally global and comes with a warning, it is to be treated only as game and not as a reality simulation. (thats just for the incoming lawsuits)

- now because of this, Matrix revolutions will only be about 85% concluded. Matrix online will pick up where Revolutions let off.

4. here is what everybody really argues with me about.

- Okay, we know that neo is the messiah. The five predecessors are the five books of moses in the old testament. Neo is jesus. AND WHAT HAPPENS TO JESUS IN THE BIBLE DURING THE TRANSITION FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT TO THE NEW TESTAMENT????? HE DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Yes people neo is going to die in Revolutions. You see neo is destined to be a martar and the only way for him to do that is to die. Because neo is a machine creation, he is part machine and part human. And to destroyed the machines and save the humans He will have to give his life.

--kinda like arnold at the end of Terminator 2
--If you think about it, Terminator 3 is kinda like a distant prequel to the matrix( of course there are many prequels).

nice, but totally wrong.

5 is interesting, but when you think about it, it doesn't make sense. Every action taken is preceeded by a choice, so obviously the machines make choices.

Actually, I think that by the rules of a trilogy anyone can die in the third movie...including major characters so I don't think there is any reason why Neo wouldn't be killed...or sacrifice himself at least. Although I'm not sure that is where the movie will go, I have a feeling that one of the 3 (morpheous, trinity, neo) will die.

yes the machines make choices, but they are pre-programmed to make what choices they. that's not free will. You can't program free will. they can only do what they programmed to do.

"we are all here to do what we are all here to do"

therefore they have to have the human make the decision for them.

Originally posted by tekk2000
Okay, we know that neo is the messiah. The five predecessors are the five books of moses in the old testament. Neo is jesus. AND WHAT HAPPENS TO JESUS IN THE BIBLE DURING THE TRANSITION FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT TO THE NEW TESTAMENT????? HE DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Interesting conclusions but I don't see all of them stand up. A problem with this one specifically is he 'already died' - and Christ did not die twice. Someone else also pointed out that the buddhist principles reflect that the buddha can be reincarnated 7 times.

KL

neo never died!! You must be talking about thomas Anderson that died in the first movie!!!

According to the Merovingian, "Choice is an illusion, created between those with power and those without." Also, he says that cause and effect is the only real truth...Therefore, there is no such thing as choices, at least in the machine world so the machines do not make choices...they only react. In fact, he seems to be saying that the humans can't really choose either...so it isn't that the machines can't choose to kill the humans, or that they need the humans to make the choice for them...it is just that things will be the way they will be. So not only can you not program free will, it doesn't even exist. Apparently, the Merovingian believes in a deterministic universe...which is contradicted by quantum physics...hmmmmm

qp does not contradict determinism, it just makes events hard to predict because we don't understand it yet. and please don't get sidetracked on something like this, instead, sit back, relax, and take my word for it.

merovingian is probably just wrong though. there is choice, as the architect confirmed.

the machines obviously chose things, like when they stopped being the AI program we invented and chose to take over the world and kill humanity. Any nonsense about the machines not being able to choose something like 'kill humanity' would be utterly incoherent with the rest of the movie.

Okay, we know that neo is the messiah. The five predecessors are the five books of moses in the old testament. Neo is jesus. AND WHAT HAPPENS TO JESUS IN THE BIBLE DURING THE TRANSITION FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT TO THE NEW TESTAMENT????? HE DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, even though I'm a religious person I would find it hard to believe they only used a religious backing for these movies. So far in M1 and M2 we have seen a lot of influences from all kinds of places, religion being only one of them (philosophy, sciende, meta physics being some of the others). I would find it hard that the explanation or background for this movie would be Christianity. I'd find it much more interesting if they somehow found a way to unobtrusively put a combination of things in there. Something a larger number of people can relate to. Remember that not everyone is a religious person.

It might be asking too much though.

okay my guestion is how do you know? he had the choice of two different doors so he took the one to his love, you think that he doesn't have the chioce to live and kill smith to bring this all to an end?

Well then if you are pointing to the Jesus way then that makes sense becuase. In the end of the bible the book of revolations may have a role in this considering that the end of the world meaning the end of the humans!!!

Originally posted by Terikan
qp does not contradict determinism, it just makes events hard to predict because we don't understand it yet. and please don't get sidetracked on something like this, instead, sit back, relax, and take my word for it.

merovingian is probably just wrong though.

I'm sorry, qp does actually contradict determinism. I'm a physics major and I just got done with qp...I recommend the book "God and the New Physics" by Paul Davies if you want confirmation of my opinion by someone a little more qualified. As such, I don't think I need to take your word for it. As a short example, qp, and especially the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, place a limit on what we have the possibility of ever knowing...and does away with cause and effect. However, I agree that Merovingian is probably wrong...especially given the information I have just shared with you.

and especially the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, place a limit on what we have the possibility of ever knowing...and does away with cause and effect.

determinism does not require that we be able to predict. and not knowing the cause does not remove the cause. you are a physics major, not a philosophy major. that's why I said to just let it be. You have enough to think about already without getting confused.

____________________________________________________
neo never died!! You must be talking about thomas Anderson that died in the first movie!!!
____________________________________________________


Alrght, Thomas Anderson is a part of Neo. Neo did die. and if some people are talking about the movie being based on the bible alone, it just cant, because in the bible, yes jesus did die but rose again, just like neo in m1. so if the movie is bassed on certain things than it is bassed on a lot of things to make the move its on and not be a retelling of a bibble story of prophesy and what not.

Everyone please drop the religious parallels, lol. There is so much that can be drawn about any religion that to try and pool it together creates gunk, much like mixing several fine wines into a vat. BLAH!

The REAL wildcard is Smith. Neo is the predictable element, considered the One by the Oracle ("Because you’re the One"), Merovingian (speaks of Neo's predecessors), and the Architect ("It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were...").

Smith said, after Neo fought the agents near the beginning of the movie (IIRC), "Everything is going as before" and a cloned Smith replied "Almost everything."

It is SMITH who is the wildcard, not Neo.

Originally posted by tekk2000
- in mid 2004 the directors are creating a "real life" matrix. It is called matrix online(v7.0). It will be totally global and comes with a warning, it is to be treated only as game and not as a reality simulation. (thats just for the incoming lawsuits)


*sigh*

If you had any credibility left, it's gone now. Please tell me that nobody is that gullible.

Read http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/opinion/story/0,24330,3427948,00.html for a start.

Today's PC's struggle with the matrix screensaver for pete's sake! lol

actually it's true, it's an mmorpg. people don't jack in of course, they just log in :P

Originally posted by Terikan
actually it's true, it's an mmorpg. people don't jack in of course, they just log in :P

A mmorpg is a far cry from a "real life" matrix though, isn't it. Trust me, without further clarification that ambiguous post with references to law-suits and warnings etc will be perceived by some as a virtual reality environment every bit as believable as the Matrix in the movie.

The interesting thing is that Revelations is what it is. Revealing.
No pun intended.

On to my point:
Neo did die in M1.... Neo was Andersons user name... So on a tech. , Neo did in fact die.
The Bible simularities are erie. NEO = Jesus
ARCHITECT= Satan If so WHO is Morpeus?
And why cant the Architect be God? 4 he did create the Matrix.
AND NEO WILL DESTROY IT.....

Remember he has power outside the Matrix as well as in.

i doubt that neo will die....like the people above me he already died once and came back to life thru trinity's love......

about what you were saying in the 1st post......were you implying that trinity is another control ?.....and sort of sabetour ?

I agree with the above. Neo probably won't die.

I dont know what to say...

I think that the machines are fighting for the power.
A man who has power wants more power...
So this is the seventh time when the machines (the source)
gave a chanse to choise if he ends the resycle or restarts the Zion, and Neo chose to end it. And in the end of the movie Neo blew up those sentinels, and sliped into a coma...

But I dont think that Neo will die, he cant die becoase Trinity loves him and it would be so stupid...

So this is my explanation.

Lock

I havent read it... sorry. Tell me about it plz!!!

Lock:D

there are no matrix books...

Interesting thoughts but I don't think that there is enough evidence to back them up.

Originally posted by THE_ONE_73
The Bible simularities are erie. NEO = Jesus
ARCHITECT= Satan If so WHO is Morpeus?
And why cant the Architect be God? 4 he did create the Matrix.
AND NEO WILL DESTROY IT.....

Remember he has power outside the Matrix as well as in. If you really want to tie similarities to the bible (which I think is folly because there's no complete correlation but anyway):

Architect: God - promotes the continuation of humanity by cleansing the Earth of anomolies [sins].

Oracle: Holy Spirit - guides the anomolous [sinner] back to God.

Matrix: Earth

Zion: Hell - dance scene is orgy-like, has firey pits, looks nothing like the "promised land" Zion.

Neo: Christ, who goes down to the pits of hell to rescue its prisoners. Dies and is ressurected.

Morpheus: John the Baptist - paving the way for the Christ.

Agents: Demons - trying to stop the Christ from his purpose every step of the way, and preventing the inhabitants of Earth [Matrix] from discovering God [architect] and their real selves.

Smith: now a wildcard, perhaps a Devil architype - making his own army of demons in his own image.

Like I said, once you draw connections to the bible, things fall apart rather quickly. This is about my 5th attempt and it still falls short lol. Folly I tell ya! This is a sci-fi movie, and the Wach. Bros are not prophets, hehe.

Well, I just hope they don't the ending of M3 overly religious. I mean, if they did I know a lot of 'unreligious' people who might be dissapointed. You'd be ignoring a whole section of their fanbase.

And of course, each person sees the movie related to his own life experience. Christians see it in relation to the bible for example. I'm more of a person who looks at the phylosophical side of it. As long as they put enough different influences in there so we can all relate to it somehow, I'm a happy person :) They've done it for the first 2 movies, so I have a good feeling they'll keep this up for M3 too.

I do like to read how the Matrix movie has lots of references to the bible though. It makes you think a bit. If this story came from the minds of 2 people, then these are 2 very very talented men. Making a movie with such detail and references to all kinds of things is just simply amazing.

So we have people who believe that there is always cause and effect due to the fixed laws of physics...(1)

And others who believe that quantum physics means there is always unpredicatable randomness...(2)

In (1) it would be possible to predict every movement of every
single atom, and therefore from the big bang onwards you could
predict EVERYTHING - like an enormous game of chess.

In this way, the only thing that would make life worth living is the
fact that you couldn't predict everything, because your brain is
too small to process the movement of every atom.

So every decision you make isn't down to choice, but down to
how much chemical is on one side of a neuron in your brain
versus the other side. i.e. NO CHOICE, just living by chemical
signals.


In (2) everything is as is in (1) except that occasionally random
things happen that disobey 'the laws of physics' and so create
random outcomes.

Big deal!

You still don't really have CHOICE, the chemicals in your brain
might have been 'nudged' by some weird quantum event, but
they will still fall one way or another. Just like a computer follows
a program. Just like background radiation can cause a '1' to
change to a '0' in a computer, or cause cancer in a human, the
choice is not real.


:O)

Ah well.... never mind eh?