He is a Machine

Morpheus: How is he doing?
Tank: 10 hours straight! He is a machine

(collaborated and reposted from ideas that developed over many of my postings today)

I came to a new epiphany and started to formulate a new theory on the concepts regarding Neo when someone pointed out earlier today in another thread that one of the books that was required reading for cast member was 'Out of Control' by Kevin Kelly.

http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1394

He includes in that thread a clip from the book which suggests that as technology and human society progresses, machines are becoming more lifelike while human existence is becoming more mechanical.

The architect clarifies for us that Neo isn't a machine or program when he condescends him by stating that he cannot understand everything he [the architect] is about to tell him because he [Neo] is still 'irrevocably human'. But we see through the process of finding the One, that the very nature of 'the One' is that he has traits which allow him to 'change the matrix as he sees fit'. Something that was otherwise reserved for the sentient programs.

As the quote above suggests, various points in the dialogue point to this. Shortly after that quote, Mouse points out during the fight with Morpheus that Neo's neural kinetics are very high. It seems that the person they seek fits this concept from the 'Out of Control' book - namely that the "One" they seek would 'by design' be a human who had abilities to interact with the machines/programs. A human 'like' a machine/program or who's mind worked like one.

By the same token, the opposite would also be true at the same time - that the machines are becoming more 'human'. The nature of "Artificial Intelligence" itself is preceded by this notion - making machines or programs think, act and respond like a human. Furthermore, we see Agent Smith moving out of the 'Matrix' into reality using 'Bane' as a conduit.

Add to this the fact that Neo still has many cyborg style implants that allow him to still 'plug in' (as do the other matrix-born humans) with the fact he spent a lifetime in that reality and at least 6 months exploring his new understanding of it.

At least some statements by the Architect as well as the current plot would lead one to believe Neo is being 'led' to make certain decisions based on the System's understanding of 'certain aspects of the human psyche'. It is also suggested he is different this time - his attachment to 'his species' is 'more specific - ergo love' (for trinity) If you draw from this that his choice was then also different, he has outlived or superceded the 'function of the one'. Any influences placed upon him to lead him to this choice are now surpassed.

In the beginning of M1 he feels like he is not sure if he is awake or still dreaming. When Morpheus first fights him he says "I am trying to free your mind". Later when he does not run from Agent Smith, Morpheus says he is 'starting to believe'. And when he runs into ex-Agent Smith in the park in M2, Smith tells him that 'you set me free'.
If Neo's character is a representation of how humans are becoming more like machines, than it stands to reason this condition is not exclusive to the matrix. If the machines are becoming more 'life like' (and came from human created systems) then their inercommunication 'outside' the matrix is likely very similar to their intercommunication 'inside' the matrix. They are also still based on 'rules' that Neo clearly can 'change'.

At the end of M2, when he is climbing away from the Neb and makes the now notorious 'something is different', he also adds "I can feel them" (referring to the sentinels. At the end of M1 he made a similar statement on his 'phonecall' inside the matrix, where he says "I can feel you now". We see him hold up his hand and I believe he makes a tilt of his head and closes his eyes like he is searching for something 'inward'.

Since learning of the 'Out of Control' connection to the premise, I no longer think this was a 'magic' style power. The matrix is controlled by the programs but so are the sentinels. If Neo's mind is closer than any one else's to that of the machines then he may simply be able to communicate outside the matrix with those machines.

This theory also lends a very interest 'twist' to the nature of the coma we find him in at the end of the Matrix. They comment that they aren't sure what brought it on and/or can't determine why he is still in it. Some have postulated that the trailer for Revolutions as well as some of the plot lines in the 'Enter the Matrix' game suggest that we won't even 'see' Neo playing a part for the first part of Revolutions until he suddenly 'shows up inside' suprising the others.
When 'plugged in', the state people are in can be seen as very similar to what constitutes a 'coma'. If my theory is correct, than perhaps the 'coma' Neo is in at the end of M2 is simply a sign that upon learning 'something he different', he suddenly realized he can 're-enter' the matrix without the use of the mechanical hardware.

KL

So is your theory saying that there really isn't a Matrix within a Matrix? Or yes there is?

Yes, I've moved from the matrix within a matrix theory to the redundant connection theory now.

I believe that he may have been 'pulled' inside by someone else who sensed him when he opened the connection to stop the sentinels. Perhaps smith. Perhaps the oracle.

By redundant connection theory (RCT), I mean the idea that machines, being logical, understand failures and know the need for backup systems. Redundency. Built into everyone's socket is a wireless connection of some sort that the matrix can utilize in circumstances where the cable connection fails, giving the machines time to correct the problem. Through smith, neo was able to tap into this hidden function where others have not been able to.

Originally posted by k-lynn
When 'plugged in', the state people are in can be seen as very similar to what constitutes a 'coma'. If my theory is correct, than perhaps the 'coma' Neo is in at the end of M2 is simply a sign that upon learning 'something he different', he suddenly realized he can 're-enter' the matrix without the use of the mechanical hardware.


I think you've hit it on the head.

That could also explain why Bane is in a coma.

there is no matrix inside of a matrix.

wow.. if thats not correct, you should write and film your own revolutions. ha. thats some amazing thinking going on there. good job.

I have posted similar thoughts but not been able to collect them and define them as well. Well done. If it is correct or not remains to be seen, but at least it is a theory complete and strong enough that it has a chance of being true. And I personally hope so :)

Originally posted by dejavu_glitch
wow.. if thats not correct, you should write and film your own revolutions. ha. thats some amazing thinking going on there. good job.


When I first saw M1, I liked it because it played into a couple of sci fi scenarios I toy with in my head already - even going so far as the connection in the back of the head to some kind of 'central' mechanism used as a means of control.

I told everyone I know that if they ever decide to make a TV series out of the movie(s) that I was going to move to whereever they were doing it to try to become a writer so other people didn't muck it up.

I still think the whole 'copper top' notion is weak (humans as batteries) and wonder if other 'purposes' for the matrix may also be later revealed.

I keep trying to get motivated to write my own sci fi - probably starting with short stories. But although I have mastered the ability to create a premise, weaving a story worth reading around it is still something I am working on.

KL

verry good theory indeed, sounds much better then that matrices theory everyone was talking about.
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I do say that this is one of the best views I've seen written down. A lot of people have been trying to elude to something of this nature, but you have been able to put it to words very nicely. Good research by the way with the prerequisite reading material for the cast.

You've put some thought into it, especially by looking at 'Out of Control', which is nice to see, and I would agree that in some ways, Neo is a machine, but the machine part:

1) is a metaphor, and
2) applies to all of the humans in the movie (and those watching).

The other required reading for some cast members were written by Ouspensky and Gurjieff. Both talk about the Machine as the unfortunate normal state of humans (waking sleep). Through work, they say, you can overcome mechanicality.

It would seem logical to me, then, that Neo is overcoming the mechanicality of not only Humans, but also the Machines themselves...he has evolved.

The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution seems, to me at least, to be the non-fiction version of the Matrix.

I greatly enjoyed your post, though.

So what is the deal is he hhuman or machine, or even both, tell us all.

K-lynn, you write so intelligently and convincingly - but it's a far stretch to go from an understanding of the matrix to being able to connect at will.

With that said, I will play devil's advocate and state something I noticed odd - Remember in M2 when Neo was being plugged in and the camera is looking down on his face? He was plugged in, you hear the noise of the plug, but his eyes are open and he appears coherent. He then wills his eyes shut and appears to join the matrix not by the force of the entry of the plug but by his will to interface with the plug. I haven't noticed that out of anyone else.

Might be nothing.

I can believe that he is in the coma like state in the matrix at the end of M2 if someone will convincingly tell me how he's connected to the matrix. One believable understanding would be the matrix in matrix theory - but your post alludes to a non-matrix in matrix theory. One where his will is connecting his being to the matrix non-standardly (is that a word?)

Someone stated that they felt that maybe the brain plug has wireless backup connections. Theory works good except for that there would have to be a receiver closeby that is hardwired to the matrix. No go.

You almost have me, but I am still on the matrix in matrix theory.

-WC-

It could be possible that the hardware is already there to remote connect to the matrix and they don't know it. He could also be using the equipment that is normally used and just able to remote dial up through that. It is possible that if he does have a mind connection with the machines that this would be possible.

But we see through the process of finding the One that the very nature of 'the One' is that he has traits which allow him to 'change the matrix as he sees fit'. Something that was otherwise reserved for the sentient programs.Evidence of this is the fact that Neo can do things without calling the operator for a program. Morpheus and Trinity et.al. have to get instructions downloaded to them when necessary, and even then they're limited to the parameters of the program's instruction set.

Regarding the "still human" phrases mentioned several times in both movies: all humans were mechanically created, except for those born in Zion, conceived the "human" way. The Architect is trying to perfect the mechanized humans so that the anomoly no longer exists and the machine world can enter a new era: perfect, flesh-based machines. The perfection of the mechanized humans involves filtering out their human nature via the One. When the One fulfills his task, Zion has to be destroyed because "pure" humans (conceived naturally) live there, along with the rebelious unplugged.

This scenerio is bound to repeat itself, because the difference between freedom-loving humans and perfect, lockstep machines will never square. The first design of the Matrix was based entirely on perfect machine logic, supposing the humans would comply. It didn't have a snowball's chance in hell but in the Architect's eyes it was perfect. When the Matrix was designed based on human history, it still failed because human will/freedom could not be artificially produced as the Architect had hoped.

There seems to be a schism between the agents (sentinels) and the Architect. The agents don't want anything to do with humanity. They come across as machine "purests." Their actions work directly against The Architect's plan. If they were really working for the Architect, they'd escort the One to the Source, not try to stop him from getting there. They also referred to the Keymaker as an exile. Problem is, the Keymaker is part of the process in the One getting to the Source.

Further, Smith tries to prevent Neo from getting to the Source. In fact, he was waiting for Neo. In M1, Smith describes his disdain for humanity while interrogating Morpheus. The Architect does not mention any hatred for humanity. He only speaks of their imperfection as it relates to the Matrix.

There are now 4 distinct parties involved: Architect, Smiths, Sentinels (agents), and humans.

1) Architect is the true sustainer of human life; using Zion as a holding area for humans who don't conform to the Matrix;

2) Smith, now "unplugged" and independent, without a purpose (Smith fights Neo because he's upset that he no longer has a purpose). He is carrying anomolous code left behind by Neo, and is forming an army of Smiths;

3) Sentinels (agents) whose sole purpose is to destroy Zion, with or without a One going to the source. The agents wanted the access codes to Zion's mainframe in M1.

4) Humans (who don't have a clue) depend on the Matrix and the will of the Architect to survive. Relying on Zion (from the viewer's point of view) as the ultimate escape from the Matrix is falacy, now that we know its purpose and inevitable fate.

Maybe one, Neo is just unconscious, not in a coma. The reaction from the blast when he stopped the sentinels, just knocked him out momentarily. No need to analyze!

Maybe two, you guys are right about, Neo and Smith minds are able to plug into the matrix without being "plugged in". This can only be justified by them both know actually where the matrix is located within the program, and others must use a computer to locate it.

I think Matrix within a Matrix is so stupid, what would be the purpose of the red pill?

Theory works good except for that there would have to be a receiver closeby that is hardwired to the matrix. No go.

Consider this: the squiddies are connected to the matrix. This is something most of us believe already. Consider that they are at least connected via some sort of network. It only makes sense.

So how do they connect down there? Must be some sort of wireless access of some sort. You know, transmission technology has probably advanced a lot since our time, and so it's not at all inconceivable that it just uses a more advanced method of transmitting the signal.

You say that there would have to be a receiver close by, when that isn't necessarily the case at all. Sure, the way the humans connect they need to be at broadcast depth, but the same rule may not apply for the redundant connection.

Here's what I also think. I think that neo was able to transmit his mind to the matrix, but that he can't transmit it back. That's what the oracle means when she says that he is trapped. Why can't he? Not sure, maybe it just isn't built into the plug because only a one-way connection is needed until the repairs are made.

who is a machine and who is a living being?

In 2010:Odissey two, Artur C. Clark make a theory: All we are machines. The only diference is that we are made of carbon and computer are made of silicon.

It could be true. Maybe Neo is a Machine. But, in that case, that machine (or program) are not following the rules of The Matrix... not even the rules of the real world.

Maybe this machine came to "hack" the entire system.
I´m not sure. Have to think about that, but... it is very interesting.

Thats a very good cuestion.

See you. Have to escape...

Originally posted by Terikan
That's what the oracle means when she says that he is trapped.

I think by that, she ment that he really has no options, and that whatever he does, the same situation will arise - Fate (ie, Trinnity will get shot, whatever he does).

Originally posted by Terikan
That's what the oracle means when she says that he is trapped. Nowhere in either Neo/Oracle dialogue does the Oracle state that Neo is trapped. Can you cough up a quote?

the game supposedly has a quote where Oracle tells Niobe that Neo is savable, he's somewhere between matrix and reality. only Trinity can save him but she will have to go through hell to do it.

Not exact, but you might get better in the enter the matrix forum.

-WC-

Originally posted by WildCard
I can believe that he is in the coma like state in the matrix at the end of M2 if someone will convincingly tell me how he's connected to the matrix. One believable understanding would be the matrix in matrix theory - but your post alludes to a non-matrix in matrix theory. One where his will is connecting his being to the matrix non-standardly (is that a word?)

Someone stated that they felt that maybe the brain plug has wireless backup connections. Theory works good except for that there would have to be a receiver closeby that is hardwired to the matrix. No go.

Well, first off, I just suggested the 'coma' as a possibility resulting from my theory - but posed the theory itself to explain more the 'feeling' and consequential 'stopping' of the sentinels outside the matrix than to explain the coma.

Second, as I was lead to understand it, when we see Neo unconscious on the table he is in a ship that picked them up (still at broadcast depth) and not yet back in Zion. I gained this from the fact they were describing how they picked up 'Bane' as the only survivor from the other ships and from someone on here re-enforcing that idea.

I think I am about ready to go see the movie again finally as I now have sufficiently enough things to look for as well as a much greater understanding of the things I saw already.

KL

With that said, I will play devil's advocate and state something I noticed odd - Remember in M2 when Neo was being plugged in and the camera is looking down on his face? He was plugged in, you hear the noise of the plug, but his eyes are open and he appears coherent. He then wills his eyes shut and appears to join the matrix not by the force of the entry of the plug but by his will to interface with the plug. I haven't noticed that out of anyone else.

Good point, but also remember the first time he was plugged into the Matrix in M1 and he is told that all we are is a battery, he doesn't believe it and wants out. When he is shown on the Neb, he wakes up and tries to jump out but they have to settle him in order to unplug him. his eyes were open and he was aware of everything. It is then he gets up and "pops"

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With that said, I will play devil's advocate and state something I noticed odd - Remember in M2 when Neo was being plugged in and the camera is looking down on his face? He was plugged in, you hear the noise of the plug, but his eyes are open and he appears coherent. He then wills his eyes shut and appears to join the matrix not by the force of the entry of the plug but by his will to interface with the plug. I haven't noticed that out of anyone else.

Good point, but also remember the first time he was plugged into the Matrix in M1 and he is told that all we are is a battery, he doesn't believe it and wants out. When he is shown on the Neb, he wakes up and tries to jump out but they have to settle him in order to unplug him. his eyes were open and he was aware of everything. It is then he gets up and "pops"
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Plus, in the first movie, Tank and Neo are downloading fight techniques into Neo. he's awake and concious while he is still plugged in. they are only "un-concious" when they are actually in the matrix, but even then they have to be "downloaded" into it. in the first one, Dozzer pushes the download button on the screen behind neo and then neo is "un-concious" and in the matrix.

there is no matrix inside a matrix

hes right-if there was then wede have no holes cuz in a matrix u have reisual self image and we haev no reason 2 c holes in out bodies

You're theory is very interesting it has opened up my mind to other possible solutions to why neo is in a coma.

Originally posted by k-lynn
(collaborated and reposted from ideas that developed over many of my postings today)


When 'plugged in', the state people are in can be seen as very similar to what constitutes a 'coma'. If my theory is correct, than perhaps the 'coma' Neo is in at the end of M2 is simply a sign that upon learning 'something he different', he suddenly realized he can 're-enter' the matrix without the use of the mechanical hardware.

KL

That's why agent smith said they had a connection. Either Smith connected with Neo and hellped him stop the sentinals or Neo is getting closer to a 'machine' state of mind and Smith is getting closer to a 'human' state of mind.

really you make it sound really crazy and all but i think that neo is not a mechine but is the one and smith is just trying to get to the other side to finish what he started in m1.