Has anyone noticed that during the scene in M1 where Neo is in custody, near the beginning of the movie, that we are shown the camera footage of this room on mulitple tv screens and then zoom into the room itself(not very well put, but you get the idea)..............the same tv screens that are in the Architects room when Neo has to make his 'choice'?
Also, after Neo has taken the red pill and touches the mirror, the effect that this creates is very similar to the way in which the body is effected when the upgraded Agent Smith touches people.
I can't think of how this has any significance but i thought it might be worth a mention!
Everything has a purpose! That would suggest that the architect has been watching Neo from the beginning of the story. Very interesting point. As far the mirror, no clue. ok, u just made me think of something... after neo leaves the matrix after fighting smith x100, morph says, what was he doing to you, and neo says, i don't know, i just know it felt like i was back in that hallway... it felt like death. at first, i thought, ok, he means when he took 7 bullets in the chest... but now, i'm thinking he mite have meant when he inserted himself into smith's body, then exploded out...? sorry to just add more questions... i guess that is just the nature of m2 lol... the oracle always gives neo a type a sumthin' sumthin' to eat. and neo said that he didn't know whether or not he could trust her because she is a program type thing of/in the matrix the oracle always gives neo a type a sumthin' sumthin' to eat. and neo said that he didn't know whether or not he could trust her because she is a program type thing of/in the matrix and so there has to be type of program or "thing" inside the cookie and piece of candy. Cookie and Candy/ start with c's and end with the long e sound. With the whole 'starts with c and ends with e' thing. I couldn't follow. well it actually has nothing to do with anything
cuz when she gave Neo the candy he took it but he did not
eat it only she ate it Hun where is this leading? I just want some clarification. Must've been that cookie he ate. ;) Yes ghost_matrix, i too noticed that the monitors are the same and thought that the Arch has been watching, not just Neo, but everyone in the matrix. Everyone in the matrix is being observed.
An interesting point there tho about the same effect when Neo went thru the mirror and when Smith reached into him. Perhaps it's an effect of being partially human? See, i believe that Smith is part human and Neo part machine (read my reply in "The mother of the matrix is...") Neo experienced that liquid glass effect in the matrix and as a "human" and he was freed into the real world. And Smith is now freed as well. tho not into the real world, because he is a program. But maybe what that liquid glass does is more than facilitate a duplication but frees a program from the matrix - all subsequent duplications lose their plugs and are no longer under ctrl of the system.
By the way, in M1, the part when Neo looks into the mirror is an adaptation from Alice Through the Looking Glass. The W Bros played on that theme of escaping into a parallel world. Neo like Alice, followed the white rabbit, went through the looking-glass and tumbled down the hole (out of his pod). He like Alice will have to save wonderland. He like Alice, goes to meet the maker. And he, like Alice, might possess powers he's unaware of.
Anyway good attention Ghost_matrix Thanosied... Neo said he felt like in the hallway, and he did mean feeling like he had 7 bullets in his chest cos he said "it felt like dying" and when he went into Smith's body he came out alive and powerful. So i don't think it was the other. Not everything requires a deep read. But questioning is always good. One day it'll lead to revelation.
:) Although the screens that show neo in the interrogation room aren't *exactly* the same, they are indeed meant to be. I would see no reason for 5 screens or more to be showing the same image of the same room.
The idea that the Architect has been watching this all the time substantiates that Neo's destiny has always been to make it to the Architect. His 'path' so to speak. Along the movie we see different people help or try to stop neo. They all nudge him in one direction or the other. Like I stated before, in Enter The Matrix, the Oracle says to Niobe:
"The path of the one is made by the many"
I think his path led to the architect, and the people around him (both good and bad) made sure he walked along said path. They might not realize it though. It's where the 'choice' element comes in. Are the choices Neo and the others make actual choices? Or are they just following the predestined path to the Architect?
The best scene to explain this is when Popper (the kid in Zion) yells for Neo and gives him the spoon.
1) it is not the same spoon as in the Matrix. What most people realize at that point is that the spoonboy we see in M1 has been freed and wants to tell that to Neo
2) If he wouldn't have given the spoon to popper and asked to bring it to Neo, Neo would have been killed by Bane/Smith (with the knife). But if popper didn't free himself (he did it himself, he wasn't brought out by Neo), then spoonboy would have never been able to get the spoon to Neo either.
Cause and effect. Following a path. All leading to the Architect i said that ... the architect is the tramp
he needs to know whats going on with the one Interesting...perhaps wat Neo said about "dying" wasn't about the actual sensation of dying...it's obvious he was doing anything but dying in the battle...could it instead refer to his emotional mindset? Perhaps of failure; futility? It seems more convincing this way...
Also abt the Oracle's candy..."c"s and "ies" nonwithstanding, perhaps the focus was not on what they were but what they resembled...dun tell me u didn't see a resemblance betw the red candy and the red pill? "Same reason as you!..."...."I love candy"...sounds a whole lot like she loves finding out (or dishing out) the truth - red pill - as Neo evidently is...
Another interesting question...Agent Smith's turned renegade, even helping to warn Neo (somewhat) abt that first Agent raid...yet he "infected" someone to gain access to Zion and ultimately helped foil their efforts against the Matrix. Now why would someone like that do this? A vendetta against Neo is plausible, but continueing to serve the Matrix? He's shown time & again how much he hates working under it ("it must be the stink"...) so why all this? Evidently the Architect must've had full control over his motivations even after he's turned free...kinda disturbing if ya apply this to The Twins, Persephone and even the Oracle! Cause and Effect....think about it.... gw i was thinking much the same thing as soon as i saw it
i just had a thougth then while i was waiting for this page to load....maybe when the agents hold their hands to their earpieces they are talking to the architect to find out where people are ?
if you get what i mean
:D don't u think it's ironic how Neo doesn't believe in fate cos he thinks that doesn't make him in control of his own life, though when in the real world, he isn't exactly living the life he wants to lead. He's leading the live he HAS to lead. The reason why he was freed in the first place was to fulfill the phrphcy.
So fate does exist... in the matrix and in the real world. Who then is "in-charge"?
and if all was meant to be - Neo was meant to reach the Arch... then why were the agents all over him in M1? wasn't smith, at that time, under the system's ctrl? smith wanted the codes into Zion cos he wanted to destroy Zion - thinking that he'd free himself, that he'd take away his purpose of being a sentient in the matrix. but destroying Zion doesn't do anything for the humans that are "grown" for batteries. If any reason to destroy Zion it would be to prevent the loss of batteries when minds are freed. The talk abt how machines need man and man need machines... what does it mean? when in truth, the machines only need humans as an energy source. they have no use for free humans.
so my point is... is it really all meant to be? and how much?
i feel like a buffer overflow. maybe i'm just confusing myself. someone help me out here. ok, to clarify what i meant... when neo jumped inside of agent smith in the hallway, i think that neo could "feel" smith, and since smith was "dying", he could feel the death too, even though he was powerful. so maybe smith was doing something similar to him when he tried to assimilate him. i have no idea, you're probably rite he was probably just talking about the chest full of metal he had recieved lol. When Neo said "it felt like i was in that hallway, it felt like death." He must have been talking about when he took those bullets from that big ass deagle....cause that was the only point in the movie where his heart stopped and he died for a few seconds. So how could he know it felt like death? because he was dead, up until trinnity kissed him to wake his ass up. It felt like death because Smith was attempting to delete him. When a virus copies over part of your code (Smith is a virus), your own code is written over. He felt like he was dying because he was being pushed aside and Smith was replacing Neo with himself. Originally posted by MacLeod
Another interesting question...Agent Smith's turned renegade, even helping to warn Neo (somewhat) abt that first Agent raid...yet he "infected" someone to gain access to Zion and ultimately helped foil their efforts against the Matrix. Now why would someone like that do this? A vendetta against Neo is plausible, but continueing to serve the Matrix? He's shown time & again how much he hates working under it ("it must be the stink"...) so why all this? Evidently the Architect must've had full control over his motivations even after he's turned free...kinda disturbing if ya apply this to The Twins, Persephone and even the Oracle! Cause and Effect....think about it....
:cool: Agent Smith needs the matrix to survive. If the matrix is destroyed, he has no place to truely exist. He wants to kill Neo, but he needs the matrix. so althought he is now a rogue program, he still serves the matrix. he could actually survive in the real world as well in Banes' body..... I originally thought Neo meant the back hallways that Seraph took him through...like its "off the charts", so its a different feeling. Probably the hallway he's talking about is the one at the end of M1. Anyone else confuse it with Seraph's halls? Originally posted by thanosied
ok, u just made me think of something... after neo leaves the matrix after fighting smith x100, morph says, what was he doing to you, and neo says, i don't know, i just know it felt like i was back in that hallway... it felt like death. at first, i thought, ok, he means when he took 7 bullets in the chest... but now, i'm thinking he mite have meant when he inserted himself into smith's body, then exploded out...? sorry to just add more questions... i guess that is just the nature of m2 lol...
interesting point.... i could very well be when he insert himself into smith, but neo also said that it also 'felt like dying' . so it must have been he was pumped full of lead!:cool: Originally posted by Beyonder
I originally thought Neo meant the back hallways that Seraph took him through...like its "off the charts", so its a different feeling. Probably the hallway he's talking about is the one at the end of M1. Anyone else confuse it with Seraph's halls?
nah i didnt pick up on that....good thought but i think he was refering to when he was being killed in the hallway of M1 :) just to clarify...arch said exactly why they destroy zion over and over, he calls zion an "escalating resistance"... they allow zion to live so they can control where the humans are, then when the number reaches a threat, they destroy it :) any thoughts? I didn't notice that actually i don't get it but i guess it made sense to whoever made it up:confused: :confused: :confused: What if Zion is really a matrix within the matrix? And maybe they have never really made it to the "real world" Maybe that is how they have destroyed it so many times.... I am not sure if anyone has ever seen "existenZ" or "The Thirteenth Floor" but both of those were games within a game. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
I'd like to hear someone else's input.. matrix within a matrix is a pretty prominent on this board, i pray to god that the matrix doesnt end like this, i would probably kill someone if it did YES! I agree the screens look exactly the same and the greenish tint was the same! ok so where does this lead us.... he has been watching all the time.
Well that does make perfect sense, he apparently built the matrix. ("He watches over us") I do not particulary like the theory.... but it works.
Nevertheless it does make me ask.... Why is the architech room still in the matrix? How can it be built within the Matrix?
The white platform looked alot like where Mor brought Neo to explain the Matrix......
Where is this all going?.... Rythem, u are right....but im' not talking about the scene where smith tries turning neo into himself, i'm talking about part one matrix. Rythem, u are right....but im' not talking about the scene where smith tries turning neo into himself, i'm talking about part one matrix. My idea why Zion is there is because if there was no Zion, there would be no intension of people like Morpheus to follow a prophecy and look for the one. If the One can't be found, then he can't be led to the Architect and the Architect can't do what he wants to: improve the matrix by looking at what went wrong the last time (=Neo/Anomaly).
They keep Zion around because the quest those people are on is a direct measure to bring forward the One. And if the One can't be found, the Architect keeps his imperfect system and more people get freed.
I don't think it is to keep the measly 1% in check. It's to make sure that:
1) The One is indeed found and the anomaly, that's the main reason why 1% still refuse to accept the matrix, is detected.
2) The one is led to the Architect and the anomaly can now be examined and taken into account in the next version of the matrix. So more people accept the new version and there's less chance of a new anomaly to pop up (so zionists won't be able to save as many people, since more of them accept it).
BUT... the thing that makes the humans accept the matrix, choice, is ultimately what brings the system to its knees (in combination with love for a single individual being stronger than love for the whole human race).
Merely thoughts... might contain something interesting... might not :p the architect's room is NOT in the matrix itself. As the architect states, one door leads to the source, the other door leads BACK to matrix. Obviously that room is a seperate construct, much like the ones that Morpheus used in his teaching Neo after they first free him. a few responses to your theory...
1)zion exists bc it has always existed, each anomoly has repopulated zion and, as morpheus states in m1 "freed the first of us" or began to free people again, perhaps zion was the final stand for humanity in the war of man vs machine?
2)M1 and M2 both hint that the architect has been watching neo all along, knowing he was the one, m1 the custody scene the TVs resemble those of the architect, m2 in background architect has scenes of the beginning of m1 playing.
3) "So more people accept the new version and there's less chance of a new anomaly to pop up "-- the matrix is like an equation that just WILL NOT divide out perfectly no matter how much work goes into it, it will always have a remainder-the anomoly. the arch admits that it is unavoidable
btw im curious about what mero said "choice is only an illusion" we all knew there was no way neo was going to the source Originally posted by Beyonder
I originally thought Neo meant the back hallways that Seraph took him through...like its "off the charts", so its a different feeling. Probably the hallway he's talking about is the one at the end of M1. Anyone else confuse it with Seraph's halls?
That's exactly what I thought until I read this thread. Now that I think about it, did Morpheus and the others know that Neo actually went in a hallway? The only thing they knew is that he disspeared from their screens. So his reference to the hallway would mean a different hallway. Of course, I could be wrong about that. I wish i had the movie! What if when the screens that were on the wall lead to a matrix within the matrix of us....in the movie theater...watching the inner matrix unfold as his fate and each screen is another reality that "can" happen, but doesn't...each time we watch it...even though on a different level or parallel universe it does happen differently....just as in our world people look to "Jesus Christ" as our "Personal savior"......... Originally posted by Stankywizzlesna
a few responses to your theory...
1)zion exists bc it has always existed, each anomoly has repopulated zion and, as morpheus states in m1 "freed the first of us" or began to free people again, perhaps zion was the final stand for humanity in the war of man vs machine?
2)M1 and M2 both hint that the architect has been watching neo all along, knowing he was the one, m1 the custody scene the TVs resemble those of the architect, m2 in background architect has scenes of the beginning of m1 playing.
3) "So more people accept the new version and there's less chance of a new anomaly to pop up "-- the matrix is like an equation that just WILL NOT divide out perfectly no matter how much work goes into it, it will always have a remainder-the anomoly. the arch admits that it is unavoidable
btw im curious about what mero said "choice is only an illusion" we all knew there was no way neo was going to the source
I agree with you. He can never reach a perfect matrix, there will always be an anomaly and if it's not found and brought back to the source, then the matrix will crash (what the architect says if neo choses not to free 23 people and let the whole thing start again). About 1) Zion was indeed the last human city of resistance against the machines, the machines just need it to be able to find the anomaly in the matrix. It's people from Zion who go look for the One, the anomaly.
Yes, the architect has been following neo around all the time, but he had to become the one before he could be used to patch the matrix. That's why he did nothing at that time. He needed the whole rebirth thing to happen first so the anomaly became evident. It's probably been said 14,984 times, today, seeings it's so obvious, but could the signifigance of the cookie be in the name?? ...After all, in internet terms, "The most common meaning of "Cookie" on the Internet refers to a piece of information sent by a Web Server to a Web Browser that the Browser software is expected to save and to send back to the Server whenever the browser makes additional requests from the Server". "When a Server receives a request from a Browser that includes a Cookie, the Server is able to use the information stored in the Cookie. The Server might CUSTOMIZE what is sent back to the user, or keep a LOG of particular users' requests.
Just a thought, but i thought one worth thinking. ooh, thoughtful.
Oh, and about the idea that Neo is a program, I disagree completley based on how the logical way would would be to pen a Superhero tale. For Neo to be a true hero, he has to be flesh and blood. A hero must consist of this. The human heart just cannot make an emotional attachment to a program, well, at least mine cant. Oh, obviously i'm talking about the cookie the oracle gave neo in the 1st Matrix. I'm not quite sure about 'candy' though...as an internet term. i've watched matrix II several times now, and i've tried watching it in slo-mo during the architect scene, but no matter how hard i try, i can't decipher any screens that show any scenes in any of the 2 movies that occur outside the matrix... then again, my version is a bit fuzzy, so u never know. IF THERE WERE ANY, this would go a long way to proving the matrix-within-a-matrix theory, if not, it proves nutting! lol Originally posted by MacLeod
Another interesting question...Agent Smith's turned renegade, even helping to warn Neo (somewhat) abt that first Agent raid...yet he "infected" someone to gain access to Zion and ultimately helped foil their efforts against the Matrix. Now why would someone like that do this? A vendetta against Neo is plausible, but continueing to serve the Matrix? He's shown time & again how much he hates working under it ("it must be the stink"...) so why all this? [/B]
I've thort about this two..... why help Neo by warning him of the Agents in the raid, then try and kill him later? would he inherit Neo's powers by copying himself onto Neo?
and i did notice the resemblance of the candy to the red pills!!! didnt attach any significance to it tho. Originally posted by By-tor
That's exactly what I thought until I read this thread. Now that I think about it, did Morpheus and the others know that Neo actually went in a hallway? The only thing they knew is that he disspeared from their screens. So his reference to the hallway would mean a different hallway. Of course, I could be wrong about that. I wish i had the movie!
Just to help clear that up for ya, I'm sure that Neo had plenty of time inbetween movies to talk about his experience with Morpheus and Trinity, but even if he hadn't, remember, they can watch him on their monitors just like Link was throught M2, so they would've been able to see where he was and what was happening to him.
And I think it's funny that a couple people thought Neo's reference to the hall was the one he and Seriph were in, not that I think anything of it so much, it's just funny to see how many levels we can all be watching the same movie and yet see or get something different out of it. The cookie could very well end up being just a trivial detail, but if it wasn't, that's a great little concept there. I hadn't thought of or heard of that one before, but I like it.
As far as the candy goes, maybe The architect had heard about the whole cave rave in Zion, and thought cancy would be what Neo wanted this time. After all, wasn't it an overwhelming sense of love that made Neo chose the door to Trinity?
Sorry, another bad joke. My sense of humor is crap. Originally posted by epursimouve
don't u think it's ironic how Neo doesn't believe in fate cos he thinks that doesn't make him in control of his own life, though when in the real world, he isn't exactly living the life he wants to lead. He's leading the live he HAS to lead. The reason why he was freed in the first place was to fulfill the phrphcy.
So fate does exist... in the matrix and in the real world. Who then is "in-charge"?
and if all was meant to be - Neo was meant to reach the Arch... then why were the agents all over him in M1? wasn't smith, at that time, under the system's ctrl? smith wanted the codes into Zion cos he wanted to destroy Zion - thinking that he'd free himself, that he'd take away his purpose of being a sentient in the matrix. but destroying Zion doesn't do anything for the humans that are "grown" for batteries. If any reason to destroy Zion it would be to prevent the loss of batteries when minds are freed. The talk abt how machines need man and man need machines... what does it mean? when in truth, the machines only need humans as an energy source. they have no use for free humans.
so my point is... is it really all meant to be? and how much?
i feel like a buffer overflow. maybe i'm just confusing myself. someone help me out here.
yeah, i think that in the world of the matrix fate exists, and that maybe in rare cases it can be changed, but i'm not so sure about here in the real world. ive always thought its funny how Neo and Morpheus say they dont believe in fate, yet they believe in the prophecy, which states Neo's fate is to deliver the human race to freedom and put an end to the Matrix. jus struck me as ironic. maybe, tohugh, Neo will show in the third film why he doesnt believe in fate, when he shows the machines are wrong. can any1 tell me what the conversation between neo and the architech is all about i watched it at the cinema understood it all except that.
thanks, sausage man:confused:
p.s can you tell me how you put quotes in the bottom right on a reply?:confused: how do you put a photograph under your name? i want one of the twins! they cool. did they actually survive that explosion cos they went off the screen in there ghost type mode. also that french guy who the twins are protecting who is he and anyone know what will happen with him in the third cos he says just before he goes through that door 'we will meet again neo', well something like that about the matrix within a matrix. the wachowskis used a green filter to show that the matrix wasnt real, right? now, in the 'real world' they used a blue filter. is this to represent anything...? im begginning to believe. yeah i noticed the color thing a while ago. they do that to show the difference between the two, very nice touch, adds a 'program' feel to the matrix. also, i dont believe they have zion to control where the humans are, if they wanted they could destroy the city and be done with them for good, just keeping the matrix around with no humans allowed to live in the real world. but since that isnt the case, they need a place to keep the ones who do reject the matrix, so they keep them in zion., where they can control them. they also do this to study humans, and to improve the matrix like crahan and others stated before. Originally posted by Gobbles
gw i was thinking much the same thing as soon as i saw it
i just had a thougth then while i was waiting for this page to load....maybe when the agents hold their hands to their earpieces they are talking to the architect to find out where people are ?
if you get what i mean
:D
I'm with you. I always thought that too. i mean where else can all the agents get there information from. If that is true, then the arch gave NEO 2 other choices before the end when he was at the hideout and NEO was sent a package and it was an agent earpiece and the note said it would "set him free", meaning either NEO comes quietly, or the arch will have to use force because NEO is such a nuisance to him. Maybe the arch knows he will end the war and is trying to stop him by getting him to wear the earpiece or just be killed.
View Full Version : RELOADED-Have you noticed?
hes just a person out of the matrix - would trnity's and neo's baby be the "TWO"?
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