Tasty Wheat Conversation Loop hole.

We all know this part ( taken directly from the script ):

(Nebuchadnezzar)
Tank: Here you go, buddy. Breakfast of champions.

Mouse: If you close your eyes it almost feels like you're eating runny eggs.

Apoc: Yeah, or a bowl of snot

Mouse: Do you know what it really reminds me of? Tasty Wheat. Did you ever eat Tasty Wheat?

Switch: No, but technically, neither did you.

Mouse: That's exactly my point. Exactly. Because you have to wonder now. How did the machines really know what Tasty Wheat tasted like. huh?. Maybe they got it wrong. Maybe what I think Tasty Wheat tasted like actually tasted like oatmeal or tuna fish. That makes you wonder about a lot of things. You take chicken for example, maybe they couldn't figure out what to make chicken taste like, which is why chicken tastes like everything. Maybe they couldn't figure out...

Apoc: Shut up, Mouse.

Dozer: It's a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs.

Mouse: It doesn't have everything the body needs.


Now heres the question... Dozer, and Mouse are talking about something that the Matrix has synthetically produced for the people inside of the Matrix.. correct? Now, Dozer brings up a valid point that "It's a single cell protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs.", however, why are they discussing this in the real world? Why can't they compare tasty wheat's synthetic counterpart with the actual physical stuff that they have right on their plates? I mean yes I know Dozer and Tank, both have no ability to get into the Matrix, because they have no plugs, but don't you believe that if Mouse really wanted to see if the machines synthetically produced for the humans to synthetically taste, why can't he compare the two, inside, and outside The Matrix?

Anyone else seeing the loop hole here?

Defintly something wrong there, but not every movie can be pefrect :)

I'm not sure what you're talking about Andrew.

How would the machines know what tasty wheat
tastes like? Why would they need to know!

Our scientists know how to create strawberry
flavored candy and medicine, why would an AI
machine not be able determine the taste of
something using basic chemical compounds?

The machines don't determine what tasty wheat
tastes like, the elements that make it up do.
Following basic laws of element-combination
you can determine the taste of just about
anything. And since the brain only understands
electrical impulses, all the Matrix (or the real
world) has to send is an electric impulse to
the brain.

What determines what something looks like? How
soft/hard it is? It’s color? The same thing that
determines the taste. The Elements that make it up.

Luc L.

Great explanation Luc, I never thought about that. Makes sense now that I think about it. My kid's cough medicine tastes a great shade of grape, but I know there's no grape extract in there. :)

-WC-

with a movie as complicated and deep as the matrix theyll be mistakes but its ok

bingo

I have to say that when I heard the convo between Neo and Mouse about the tasty wheat I never read any more into it other than Dozer was simply saying "yes" its like eating runny eggs but its a "all the body needs" I took this statement to mean nothing more than that... but who knows what went on in the minds of the brothers as they wrote it! lol

Great explanation Luc, I never thought about that. Makes sense now that I think about it. My kid's cough medicine tastes a great shade of grape, but I know there's no grape extract in there.

Glad to have made a difference :D

Think of it this way, you are a soldier in a war, and you stumble upon Rip Van Winkle. He has been asleep for many long years. In his mind, breakfast is eggs and bacon. You offer him a Toaster Scrambler. He thinks it tasts like eggs and bacon but you tell him it is a simple chemical compound that is frozen until you are ready to eat it then you microwave it to heat it up and it is really as nutritious as real bacon and eggs. Now back to the matrix, they are trying to describe to Neo what the REAL world has to offer in place of what the matrix has to offer because in the matrix, the technological and social setting is many years ago compared to what has survived in the real world after years of war. The real world in the matrix doesn't have Tasty Wheat and hasen't had it ever since the war destroyed the surface world. But Neo has grown up on things that taste like it in his mind. Now he has to realize that cheap substitutions are the only thing that remain. The converse is true for Cypher, he knows the real world has nothing fun to offer him so he opts to return to the matrix where at least he can 'pretend' to eat good food and live a lush life. Try to relate your lives to the life of an Iraqi child. See the difference?

Wheat is consumed on a regular basis in the real world, so they can compare real world wheat to matrix wheat. Mouse, however, never did taste it.

The story goes like this:

Geoffrey was one of the first whom was freed from The Matrix. He was a very ambitious man, and one day he stumbled across some discs containing old movies where wheat fields could be seen. He researched this and decided to travel to an ancient seed depository. Some of the members of the resistance went with him, and together they grew wheat. It did not take too many years for the machines to discover their location on the surface, and when they did, they wiped out all the farmers in what is called The battle of the wheat fields.

Twice a year, stockpiled grain is used to make bread for a feast, to remember Geoffrey and his compatriots.


Wheat is tasty.

Mouse is simply saying Nebuchadnezzar's food staple tastes like
the Tasty Wheat he remembers from inside the Matrix. It
doesn't necessarily suggest one way or another that the
machines made the Tasty Wheat taste the way we know. The
same goes for Cypher's steak. Cypher desired the steak he
remembers from 9 years ago when he was in the Matrix.

Now for the introduction of taste into the Matrix:

Everything depends on how well the mid-22nd century AI robots
were created. They were programmed initially to handle all sorts
of chores for the humans before the revolt. The humans pain
stakingly tweaked their cooking programs so that the result for
each food item/recipe would be satisfactory.

Once the Matrix was formed, the AI already knew what the
humans like to eat/drink from their programming before the
revolt. Now they needed to understand the effect of food/drink
on the human psyche. Along comes the Mother of the Matrix who
studies the human psyche, and is eventually able to mimic the
sensation of culinary satisfaction inside the human's neuro
pathways, including taste, smell and the feeling of fullness. What
do we see the Oracle doing each time she comes on the scene?
Eating, and/or offering food.

I doubt the Wachowskis had any of my rantings in mind hehe, but
it makes enough sense for me to dismiss a Mouse hole.

anyway i think were all making a huge deal out of a convo that was really supposed to be simple and to tell you that the machines make mistakes etc. nothing more.

-Nitro

ive never had tasty wheat, what does it taste like? if it tastes like a bowl of snot i dont want any.but if it tastes like a bowl of snot why is it tasty wheat?

i dont think the conversation had anything to do wiht the actual taste, texture of the food. it was about mahcines interpreting human foods, emotions feelings etc. and i dont know what you mean by tasty wheat is like snot ... lol.

-Nitro

I think Geoffrey is named after Geof Darrow.

ot just snot... a bowl of snot;)

Everyone missed X's Point.

They can ask the tasty wheat manufacturer in the matrix for the recipe and make it from scratch in zion. This allows them to make a direct comparison.

This loophole is similar to my confusion that though all 20th/21st century music is available to the zionites through the matrix they have reverted back to tribal/jungle music with only drums.

Josh.

Originally posted by Luc
I'm not sure what you're talking about Andrew.

How would the machines know what tasty wheat
tastes like? Why would they need to know!

Our scientists know how to create strawberry
flavored candy and medicine, why would an AI
machine not be able determine the taste of
something using basic chemical compounds?

The machines don't determine what tasty wheat
tastes like, the elements that make it up do.
Following basic laws of element-combination
you can determine the taste of just about
anything. And since the brain only understands
electrical impulses, all the Matrix (or the real
world) has to send is an electric impulse to
the brain.

What determines what something looks like? How
soft/hard it is? It’s color? The same thing that
determines the taste. The Elements that make it up.

Luc L.

Yes, and in the beginning of Reloaded, were shown that the programming of the Matrix goes down to the very atom.

I think you are all missing the point. Mouse wants to know if the Tasty Wheat he tasted inside the Matrix is the same as Tasty Wheat outside of the Matrix. He has no way to make a direct comparison, however, because the stuff on his plate is not Tasty Wheat. If he could have Tasty Wheat outside of the matrix than he could tell if the machines were right when they produced the sense for those in the matrix. There is no loophole because we cannot tell if the machines were right because we do not have Tasty Wheat outside the matrix.

Originally posted by nomalouscontrol
I think you are all missing the point. Mouse wants to know if the Tasty Wheat he tasted inside the Matrix is the same as Tasty Wheat outside of the Matrix. He has no way to make a direct comparison, however, because the stuff on his plate is not Tasty Wheat. If he could have Tasty Wheat outside of the matrix than he could tell if the machines were right when they produced the sense for those in the matrix. There is no loophole because we cannot tell if the machines were right because we do not have Tasty Wheat outside the matrix.
I believe that's what I said - in so many words. There is no
loophole.

wait a inuet is tasty wheat the cereal where on the commercials it has the cereal with two sides,whaet and sweets, and theyre always debating and stuff.if so it actually does taste like a bowl of snot w/ milk. w/out milk its not thaaaat bad

But as I already told you, the resistance has wheat they can use to compare the taste with. This, however, wasn't something the brothers knew when they wrote the scene. Mouse could've been new to the crew, so that he wouldn't've been with the resistance long enough to taste their bread, but I strongly doubt this is the case. I think Mouse was just pointing out that machines can make mistakes; they are not perfect. Or this could just be another one of those scenes which cannot be explained by any other than the bros themselves.

Like the one in which Cypher is talking with Agent Smith. How the hell did he get there without an operator?

it is possibe to get in w/ out an operator,how he got out is beyond me

Originally posted by Gekko
But as I already told you, the resistance has wheat they can use to compare the taste with. This, however, wasn't something the brothers knew when they wrote the scene. Mouse could've been new to the crew, so that he wouldn't've been with the resistance long enough to taste their bread, but I strongly doubt this is the case. I think Mouse was just pointing out that machines can make mistakes; they are not perfect. Or this could just be another one of those scenes which cannot be explained by any other than the bros themselves.
Hmmm, I don't recall seeing fields of wheat in Zion, much less a
hydroponics system. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

The food that is given to Neo when he arrives in Zion is just more
of the same glop, but prepared special, for a special guy lol.
There is no evidence that they are growing crops in Zion.

i wonder if they have mike and ikes,were else would the red pill come frum?or mayb its an m&m,or a skittle!

Originally posted by Luc
I'm not sure what you're talking about Andrew.

How would the machines know what tasty wheat
tastes like? Why would they need to know!

Our scientists know how to create strawberry
flavored candy and medicine, why would an AI
machine not be able determine the taste of
something using basic chemical compounds?

The machines don't determine what tasty wheat
tastes like, the elements that make it up do.
Following basic laws of element-combination
you can determine the taste of just about
anything. And since the brain only understands
electrical impulses, all the Matrix (or the real
world) has to send is an electric impulse to
the brain.

What determines what something looks like? How
soft/hard it is? It’s color? The same thing that
determines the taste. The Elements that make it up.

Luc L.

Yeah I agree with u on this..Great answer it really makes sense..it makes so much sense it might actually be tru and it most likely is...:D

There is no evidence that they are growing crops in Zion.

How about reading all the posts before replying?

My source is the comic from series 3 which tells about Geoffrey and his wheat fields.

Okay, enough with the Tasty Wheat. How come nobody is talking about that cake? You know the one I mean...the niiiice little chocolate torte cake that The Merovingian served to that niiiiiice blonde in his restaurant while lecturing our heroes about cause and effect.

I want that recipie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol,"cause and effect". i wish i could "write" somthing like that. i would write myself(if u red the my theory on the source thread) a giant skittle monster!

That part of the movie was kinda confusing at first but now I got what Merovignian was trying to explain to them......

Going back to the tasty wheat subject, Mouse only said it reminded him of tasty wheat , not that it was a real world substitute to tasty wheat. Basically it´s the endless convesation about how to describe a color to a blind person. This is acctually one of my fav space out subjects. Bare with me:

Let´s say that a taste and a color is interpreted by one person as green and salty while another person expirience them as blue and sour but he has been learned from birth that the color of grass is green. The way he himself expiriences it is irrelevant.

Hope you stayed with me.lol

P.S. I´m talking about the real world. Not the Matrix movie.

How does dozer know what a bowl of snot taste like or was he just guessing / joking?
:confused:

Apoc was just being negative.

Originally posted by Xehirut
I mean yes I know Dozer and Tank, both have no ability to get into the Matrix, because they have no plugs, but don't you believe that if Mouse really wanted to see if the machines synthetically produced for the humans to synthetically taste, why can't he compare the two, inside, and outside The Matrix?


Yeah why didnt they, i mean they coulda done it in the movie, taken a good 30 minutes to show them jacking him in then getting tasty wheat, and then exiting the matrix and trying the real stuff. Thats not a loophole, thats would have been totally pointless. The whole point of that scene was to show that everything Neo knew before he was released was just an image, and that nothing at all was real.

i back up PK. Doing that would have been a waste of everyone's time.

Originally posted by nomalouscontrol
I think you are all missing the point. Mouse wants to know if the Tasty Wheat he tasted inside the Matrix is the same as Tasty Wheat outside of the Matrix. He has no way to make a direct comparison, however, because the stuff on his plate is not Tasty Wheat. If he could have Tasty Wheat outside of the matrix than he could tell if the machines were right when they produced the sense for those in the matrix. There is no loophole because we cannot tell if the machines were right because we do not have Tasty Wheat outside the matrix.

I think you are right. Mouse is wondering all the stuff he experienced in the Matrix actually exist or did exist in the real world. He will never know.

Also Mouse could not have Tasty Wheat outside the matrix either because what Tasty Wheat was made up of in the matrix (ingredients), cant be trusted to what was truly made up of.