Merovingian and Persephone

Now, first of all, this is pure utter speculation, but I'll throw it in for kicks anyway :)

1) the name of the restaurant mero is in is called 'le vrai', in english, 'the true one' or as I like to read it: 'the one'.

2) persephone says to neo that the merovingian used to be like him

3) Persephone wants at least 2 people in the movie to kiss her with the same emotion they kiss the people they love most (she asks this from Neo, and from Niobe too).

My guess (how unbelievably wild it may be):

The merovingian is the previous one. Who once loved persephone in the same way Neo loves Trinity. Now that love has died and Persephone keeps searching for that feeling she once had (hence the kissing routine).

Now what choice this previous one made (if he indeed is the previous one) when he was with the architect, I don't know. I'm just

"sharing a *revelation* I had during... my...time... on this forum" :D

Well, that leaves a problem.

Either the architect lied when he said neo was the first to develop an affinity to his species through love, or

a. merovingian never loved persephone
b. merovingian isn't a former one.

Any of these is possible.

However, why do you think merovingian is so mad at the oracle.

Perhaps he was a former one.... he was fooled by the oracle and others into thinking he would free the people of the matrix. Perhaps the architect is only making neo think he is different from previous one's, when he is not. If so, then it all kinda makes sense.

But perhaps merovingian was the previous oracle. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

and he doesn't want her to help neo, because he was not able to help his version of 'the one' do the right thing.

That would still allow persephone to be the mother of the matrix, something I'm pondering on currently. That would allow the architect to be telling at least partially the truth.

First off.. i dont believe the merovingian could have been the previous oracle.. the simple reason being.. computers cant emulate love.

But I can surely follow the path of him being a former anomaly.. if that's the truth.. he surely chose differently than Neo, but that may have several reasons.
1. Persephone was obviously not about to die (she's stille there)
2. The Merovingian wants power. And the power to recreate the matrix with his own "dna/code/whatever" would certainly be very tempting.

And by choosing to remake the Matrix, he might have tasted the first bit of power. And as it is stated by the Oracle in the movie.. what does men with power want? More power! So maybe his love for Persephony has been overshadowed by his lust for power? Remember the scene with the blonde.. he chooses to exercise his power to have sex with her, rather than with his wife. Again.. love looses out to power.

Just my 2 cents..

First off.. i dont believe the merovingian could have been the previous oracle.. the simple reason being.. computers cant emulate love.

why not? and what does love have to do with being the oracle?

Programs can't love. Programs abide by the laws of mathematics.. and for those of you that doesn't know this.. mathematics equals logic.
Keeping that in mind, remember what the Architect said.. hope is a function to set aside all logic and reasoning. With love comes hope. And since hope isn't logical, computers cant understand it. And since the Merovingian is a program, he's not able to love.

Thats seems logical to me ;)

The Merovingian once loved Persephony.. that means he isn't (or hasn't ALWAYS been) a program. And since the Oracle is a program.. he couldn't have been an Oracle.

Does that make any sense at all ?

Hmm.. the anomaly theory just took a major blow.

5. Merovingians phrases to Neo "Your predecessors had more respect" and "I have survived your predecessors and I will survive you!"

As stated by Imm0rtal in this thread (http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=729).

Here's another theory.

Maybe he was once a human, but got infected by something similar to Smith. So he now resides inside the mainframe as some kind of virtual entity.

Originally posted by CeeCay
First off.. i dont believe the merovingian could have been the previous oracle.. the simple reason being.. computers cant emulate love.

But I can surely follow the path of him being a former anomaly.. if that's the truth.. he surely chose differently than Neo, but that may have several reasons.
1. Persephone was obviously not about to die (she's stille there)
2. The Merovingian wants power. And the power to recreate the matrix with his own "dna/code/whatever" would certainly be very tempting.

And by choosing to remake the Matrix, he might have tasted the first bit of power. And as it is stated by the Oracle in the movie.. what does men with power want? More power! So maybe his love for Persephony has been overshadowed by his lust for power? Remember the scene with the blonde.. he chooses to exercise his power to have sex with her, rather than with his wife. Again.. love looses out to power.

Just my 2 cents..

where do you get this machines cant love nonsense? It makes NO sense in the context of this film. and i dont think you mean oracle. and how can you say he choose differently then neo? maybe he acted the exact same way as neo. persephone seems to think so. maybe he is exactly as neo will be.




I have the strong suspicion i am talking to a girl

He himself said to Neo just before escaping after the action scene that " I survived your predecessors and I will survive you' I think he was referring to Previous ONEs when he said 'your predecessors'

After watching M2 a few more times, it has become quite clear to me that Persephony is the mother.

1. The mother is a program created to investigate certain parts of the human psyke.
- Persephony wants to experience the feeling of love through kisses, and as someone pointed out, there is a very low "buzz" sound when Neo's and Persephony's lips touch and separate.

2. When Neo suggests that the Oracle might be the mother, the Artchitect frowns and says "please", as if he is offended by that suggestion.

Is there any doubt?

I think you are right, both for the reasons you cite, and for the following:

3. The Merovingian seems to be quite powerful, and to be so by license of the powers that be in the matrix: first, he is controling those "rogue" vampire and ghost programs. Now, since these programs are said to be glitches in the matrix code by the Oracle, you would expect that agents should show up at some point to kill or remove them. They don't and that is evidence for the acceptance of his existence. Second, he has access to the "back door" teleportation that also the corridors leading to the architect and the oracle provide. I would expect agents to eliminate anyone using this backstage area of the matrix, if it was not with permission. Thus, his existence seems to be tolerated by the matrix. But why should the Matrix tolerate someone, who so blatantly breaks its rules?

I think that Persephone is really the important one of the couple. From the way she bosses around the Merovingian (e.g. sending him to the Womens bathroom with authority), it is clear that not he, but she has the real power. He is merely her toy, and she allows him his fancies. At no point is he in a position to do anything against her decisions.

Now, if you combine these last two points (from this and my last post, there are only 1000 characters allowd somehow), it is clear that the matrix allows the rules to be broken for Persephone, not for the Merovingian. And again back to the original question: Why?

Because she is the mother, has to be the only plausible answer.

4) I believe all the names in the matrix to be "speaking" names, that hint to the function or role of the character in the scheme of things. For example, Neo means new, and his function is to restart the matrix anew. Morpheus goes to the Underworld and returns, in accordance with his travelling between Zion and the matrix. Now Persephone was the wife of Hades, abducted from her mother, the goddess of nature. Her mother being unhappy about persephone being away, continual winter ensued, and so a deal was struck for her to spend part of the time with her mother (summer), and part with her husband (winter). So Persephone drives the cycle of seasons in myth, and Persephone drives the cycle of matrix revisions in the movie.

You make a very convincing argument groody :)

Nice info on the name part. Very interresting thought. I think I'll have to look up the meaning of EVERY name I've come across now. ;)

[SPECULATION] see merovingian was the former "one" and since the beginning, there has been only one oracle.
As we are all aquainted with the unique choice of words given by the oracle, we can somehow understand why Merovingian doesnt find her the most compatable person and hence why he dislikes her so
this means that persephone was merovingian's "trinity" and as others have said, loses the love they once shared for each other
will we meet the other "ones" in the next movie for i belive that they hold a part for the conclusion of the story line... all just speculation

I don't agree with you on this one.

that is why it is refered to as...SPECULATION

costa:

The Oracle clearly states that the Merovingian is a program.

"One of the oldest of os." -The Oracle

MERIVINGIAN
from: http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/merovingian-twyman.htm
The Frankish King Dagobert II, and the Merovingian dynasty from which he came, have been romantically mythologized in the annals of both local legend and modern mystical pseudo-history, but few have understood the true meaning and origins of their alluring mystery. The mystique that surrounds them includes attributions of saintliness, magical powers (derived from their long red hair), and even divine origin, stemming from their supposed descent from the one and only Jesus Christ...As Boyd Rice and I will explain in more detail in our forthcoming book, we have uncovered mountains of evidence which indicates that the origins of the Merovingian race, and the mystery that surrounds them, lies ultimately with a race of beings, "Nephilim," or "Fallen Angels," who created mankind as we know him today, and with a civilization, far more ancient than recorded history, from which came all of the major arts and sciences that are basic to civilizations everywhere, even unto today.

PERSEPHONE
from: http://www.messagenet.com/myths/bios/persephone.html
The Wife of Hades
The beautiful daughter of Demeter and Zeus, Persephone is the focus of the story resulting in the division of the seasons, giving us the sweetness of Spring and the bitterness of Winter. Hades did not woo the beautiful Persephone, he abducted her and took her to his underground kingdom. After much protest, Persephone came to love the cold blooded king of the underworld but her mother, Demeter, was consumed with rage and sorrow. She demonstrated her anger by punishing the earth’s inhabitants, gentle and fierce with bitter cold and blustering winds. Unless Persephone was returned of to her mother’s side, the earth would perish.

Interresting info.. fits right into the theory about the Merovingian being an old program that chose exile instead of deletion. "Fallen Angel"

Good job

very interesting, very interesting indeed.... :)