Complete detailed transctript of Niobe-Oracle conversation

Ok, here it is. I recorded the conversation from Enter the Matrix between Niobe and the Oracle and typed it out. I don't think I misunderstood anything, it should be accurate.

-------------- begin transcript --------------

[ Niobe arrives at Seraphs teahouse and fights him ]

S: Enough, good. Again I apologize, but these are difficult times and it's forced upon me to measure a harsher resolve. Come.


[ Niobe follows Seraph and arrives at the Oracles kitchen, the same kitchen that was abandoned when Neo went to look for her earlier on in Reloaded ]

O: Niobe.

N: (sceptical) Do I know you?

O: You knew me, though you may not recognize me

N: Are you telling me that *you* are the Oracle?

O: I know this won't be easy for any of you, change never is. I wish the face you remember was the face I was still wearing, but that face is gone.

N: If you *are* the Oracle... tell me if I believe you are.

O: You don't right now but you will.

N: Are you going to tell me something to make me believe you?

O: Come on Niobe, you know I can't do that!

N: Why not?

O: Because I can't make you do anything.

N: Heh, at least you sound the same.

O: As I said, you may not recognize the face, but who and what I am beneath remains the same.

N: Can I ask what happened?

O: The Merovingian warned me, that if I made a certain choice, it would cost me. He is, amongst other things, a man of his word.

N: What was the choice?

O: The same one you yourself will have to make. The choice to help Neo or not.

N: Then Neo is alive?

O: Yes. He touched the source and separated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.

N: Can we free him?

O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.

N: Can I help?

O: That's why I called. I can not tell you what is going to happen. All I can do is hope, that if you are given the chance, you will find the courage to do what you can.

N: You once told me you knew everything you needed to.

O: I do. I knew everything from the beginning of this path to the end.

N: I don't understand.

O: Even I can't see beyond the end.

N: The end? Are you trying to tell me the world is going to end?

O: Yes! If we can not save it, it will end!

N: You mean Neo?

O: I mean we. The path of the one is made by the many. I have a role to play just as you have yours.


[ Seraph enters ]

S: It is time.

O: You must go now.

N: Wait! I need more information. How will I know what to do?

O: There's an old chinese proverb I've always liked: "The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know". You'll know Niobe. You always do.


[ Niobe puts on her sunglasses, sighs, and leaves out the kitchen door. A door in the backdoor hallway opens and Niobe steps out Seraph stands behind her holding the door open. ]

S: I wish you luck and courage.

N: Thanks, same to you.


[ She walks of into the backdoor hallway and the door closes behind her. A door suddenly opens and Smith appears. Niobe braces herself. ]

S: Damn, not who I was hoping for. But perhaps you can help me find him?

N: You're an Agent?

S: Oh no...no... not anymore.

N: Then what are you?

S: Me? I suppose you could say... I'm the alpha

[ Another door opens and another Smith comes out ]

S2: Of your omega.

[ And another ]

S3: I am the beginning...

[ And another ]

S4: Of your end!

[ Niobe makes a run for it and flees out through one of the doors in the hallway as more and more Smiths start to appear. ]

-------------- end transcript --------------


That's it, I hope people get some more insights from this. I think it is an important addition to Reloaded and proves the game does have an important role to understand the movie better.

I think I can help with a little bit of that.

In reloaded, ships are sent out to determine the fate of the one. Niobe is the captain of one of those ships. I believe that she had visited the oracle in the scene just before the car chase scene where she speaks with link and goes to rescue morpheus.

But, after, neo spoke with her. She must have spoke with him, and then decided for some reason to return to her old apartment.

Now what we have to figure out is this.

Did neo separate during or around the time when he shut down the sentinels?

If not, then when, and why?

So long as we obey the laws of time, neo could not have 'touched the source' and separated in the white room with the architect. That scene comes after the car chase scene, which would come after Niobe's visit with the oracle.

Another question: Did neo already touch the source by the time he spoke with the oracle? If so then that rules out many more possibilities. But this one I'm not so sure about. It may have happenned afterwards.

-----------------------------Analyzing Data... One Moment Please--------------

Here is some interesting analyzing.

1. The premise of this movie is taken from the allegory of the cave, written by Plato. Plato also wrote that there are three parts of humans. The mind, the body, and the heart.

If neo's body is seperated from his mind, then perhaps the 'source' is love, the metaphorical 'heart' if you will. Maybe he separated during sex with Trinity, maybe when he touched her matrix 'real heart' and saved her.

2. Neo has 'touched' a few other things in M2. Here's a list of his more interesting touching moments.
a. Kiss with persephone.
b. Candy from oracle.
c. Agent smith when he tried to copy himself to him (maybe)
d. The spoon

Anyone have any thoughts?

Originally posted by Terikan

a. Kiss with persephone.
b. Candy from oracle.
c. Agent smith when he tried to copy himself to him (maybe)
d. The spoonHandshake with Bane (Smith-possessed)

It's possible that the love-touch of the source was Persephone. Remember, Neo failed the first time, then had to really lay one on her.

A general note: Love tends to be the easy way out of a boxed-in storyline. It's so cliché anymore. I certainly hope they don't head in that direction.

I think that the "source" that Neo "touches" is much more OBVIOUS than what you are interpreting...I think the source is the architect (remember, Neo has to go to the "source" in order to find the architect) and that after he visits this "source," he now has gained new powers (the power to stop the sentinels) because he is stuck somewhere between the world of computers and the real world. Does that seem like too obvious of an interpretation. I think I need to get my boyfriend to rent the Matrix game so I can find out more about what happens in this subplot!

That's possible.... but....

the architect said that one of the doors led to the source, which of course, implies that neo wasn't already at the source.

perhaps the architect was lying, but wouldn't that be kinda silly? maybe, maybe not, I don't know.

The oracle says that trinity can save neo. does she save him and maybe the coma has nothing to do with his needing saved? she did sorta fight through hell, I guess. And her presence made neo choose a different door then he would have otherwise.

more questions:
1. did trinity already save neo, or is that going to happen later?
2. what exactly does it mean to be stuck between the matrix and the real world?

Maybe the part about being trapped between The Matrix and The real world might be about the choice he had to make. Save all the people (and thereby die himself).. or save Trinity. He chose Trinity, and by doing that she actually saved him in some weird twisted way. The trapped part is that he wants to save the matrix (the people hooked up to it).. but he also wants to save Xion (the real world). He's been told he cant do both.. maybe thats what the "being trapped" part means. The choice he made and the consequenses of that choice.

Just speculating..

Niobe's meeting with the Oracle (in Enter the Matrix) comes near the game, and well AFTER the car chase scene...it comes not long before she blasts the EMP...don't know if these helps things in a timeline, but I am sure that it is after the car chase scene...and I am almost positive it is after she blows up the nuclear power plant as well...

Originally posted by Terikan
-----------------------------Analyzing Data... One Moment Please--------------

Here is some interesting analyzing.

1. The premise of this movie is taken from the allegory of the cave, written by Plato.


I believe it was the official site's 'Philosophy' section that points to this peice by Plato as well. I am still drawn by the amazing correlations to the Simulacra and Simulation book too, however. Nihilism, architectonic nature of the world, and even the concept of 'matrices' from page 2 of that book!
Furthermore, the book starts out with a quote from ecclesiastes that might as well say 'there is no spoon'.

I need not also point out the parallels to the bible and the many references to greek mythological characters as well as historical references. Check out my posting(s) on the 'names' in another thread... http://www.matrixreloaded.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=594

KL

Yes, 'Simulation and Simulacra' and 'out of control' were mandatory reading for Keanu Reeves before he started working on the movie. You can check out that second book on Kevin Kelly's website:

http://www.kk.org/outofcontrol

It also has an amazing amount of correlations with the movies. And one would expect them to since the main character was asked to read them both.

Originally posted by crahan

N: What was the choice?

O: The same one you yourself will have to make. The choice to help Neo or not.


I see a lot of talk about the timeline. I have not played the game yet and would need to see the movie again (which may happen soon enough) to understand how events in zion related to the timing of events in the matrix, but would it not seem that this would fit in some time prior to the emergency council gathering where they take volunteers to search for Morpheus's ship?

She 'chooses' to go help find them - to help Neo. Of course, we haven't seen reloaded yet either, but I just thought I would throw in my $0.02

KL

This conversation takes place after the freeway sequence where morpheus battles the agent on top of the truck.

are you sure about this?

if so, it messes up my timeline completely.

oh well.

I suppose it doesn't matter.

What matters is if he had touched the source before seeing the oracle, and she saw in him that he had touched it, or if he touched it afterwards, and she simply knew because that's what she does.

100% positive that it's after the freeway chase scene. And I think the Oracle is referring to the fact he's in a coma. His body being there in the Real World, but his mind trapped between The Real World and The Matrix.

I think that if she is referring to his coma state, then his mind is completely in the matrix, not trapped in between. I think the WHOLE neo is trapped in between because his body is in the real world and his mind is in the matrix.

I'm thinking the scene between him and smith takes place near the beginning of M3.

While I haven't played the game...if Niobe's meeting with the Oracle occured before the council meeting in the movie it would make more sense, IMHO, because it provides a reason for Niobe to volunteer and gives meaning to her words when Commander Locke asks what she is doing. "What I can." Sounds just like what the Oracle said to her...

However, what could the Oracle be talking about except Neo's coma which puts Niobe's visit with her well after the council meeting...

I think that this may be a key point...and it just hit me what it might be. The split between the real world and the matrix that Neo's mind is undergoing could refer to his choice in the Architects room. One door is to choose the Matrix and restart the cycle, the other is to choose the real world and save trinity. Trinity did fight through hell when she came into the matrix and she definately influenced him to choose the real world over the matrix. This could also explain why Neo couldn't see whether Trinity lived or died in his dream because he hadn't actually made that choice, which the Oracle somehow knew, even though she said he had already made the choice, and decided to talk to Niobe in order to influence him to choose the real world over the Matrix...

While I haven't played the game...if Niobe's meeting with the Oracle occured before the council meeting in the movie it would make more sense, IMHO, because it provides a reason for Niobe to volunteer and gives meaning to her words when Commander Locke asks what she is doing. "What I can." Sounds just like what the Oracle said to her...

The reason why she volunteers at the council is explained in the game too. At one point Lock and Niobe are talking in Niobes quarters and he's telling her about the plan he has to form a first line of defence against the sentinels using the hovercrafts. He then tells her he didn't include her ship because it was too small and the EMP wouldn't be very effective anyway. She's very very very mad about the fact that she's being put aside. She tells him that that's a lie, and he just says he doesn't want anything to happen to her.

So her volunteering at the council is just to p*ss of Lock cause he had not given her an opportunity to help defend Zion. We also know from the game that she doesn't love Lock. She loves Morpheus. Persephone establishes that during their little conversation.