Does anybody here think that time travel is possible? I think it's possible into the past, but you can only travel in the future to the time you left. Here's what I mean:
06/25/05 3:49:01 PM: Leave for 10/18/91 8:05:00 AM.
10/18/91 8:05:00 AM: Arrive.
10/19/91 11:49:23 PM: Leave for the latest possible time you can go (06/25/05 3:49:01 PM.
06/25/05 3:49:01 PM: Arrive back from the past.
I'd like to know your thoughts.
End of line.
-Snoopy Yes, but not in the normal sense that most people think of it. I am more a fan of the multi-verse theory and our ability to access each different one through the quantum foam. Not really time travel, but it kind of is. Problem with the multi-verse is that it's so utterly depressive and unmotivating. Sure, you can travel back in time, but why should you? You have already done it a near infinite amount of times already, and will do it for an infinite amount of times to come. Every single change you could probably implement already exists in an infinite amount and all the ways you could possibly screw up already exist.
Mr U Exactly. So why bother? Instead just sit back with a couple of bitches and some 40's and let somebody else worry about it. My theory/concept of "time" techincally would allow for time travel, but one could not alter the timeline.
The theory I have is based on the idea that time is an artificial construct of our reality designed to allow our feeble, temporal minds to function (put in place by God - whatever God you want to believe in will jive with this in my opinion). All that will happen has already happened, is happening, and will happen, all at the same "time". God (existing outside of our reality in a state of timelessness/eternity) would the only entity that has the ability to see and access all points on the timeline as if it was all happening "now", whereas we continually flow in one direction on the timeline living thru a portion of it, perhaps even repeatedly not knowing.
My concept could likely be seen as the ultimate TV rerun marathon of time. I think that time travel could be theoretically possible, but in doing so one would put themselves out of "sync" with the timeline and never be able to interact with time until getting back into his proper time.
While time travel might be theoretically possible, how one would go about building a machine that would in effect put oneself out of sync with time is beyond me.
I guess maybe this doesn't fall into the realm of "theory" and more into the relm of "fantasy" or "craziness", but that is pretty much how my mind processes the idea of time and time travel.
Exactly. So why bother? Instead just sit back with a couple of bitches and some 40's and let somebody else worry about it.
While I'm not so enthusiastic about the bitches, a Busch 40 sounds really good right now. Time travel isnt possible.A matter of entropy renders it somewhat impossible(at least from what i understand).I'm kinda rusty on the subject.I'll have to refresh my memory. So you believe time to be some sort of closed system? And how can anything be 'somewhat' impossible? Please do refresh your memory, I would like to hear more about this. So you believe time to be some sort of closed system? And how can anything be 'somewhat' impossible? Please do refresh your memory, I would like to hear more about this.
Precisely.(I dont remember much on the subject so correct me if i'm wrong).
In vertue of the first law of thermodynamics,the amount of energy in the Universe remains constant.But if you're traveling through time,your presence must create a shift in the total amount of energy in the Universe.Which cant be possible(right?) Well, entropy would be the measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder and that is a property of the system's state and is related to it in such a manner that a reversible change in heat in the system produces a change in the measure which varies directly with the heat change and inversely with the absolute temperature at which the change takes place. The first law states that the change in internal energy of a system is equal to the heat added to the system minus the work done by the system. I am not certain how all of this applies to what you are saying. Heat is kinetic energy that results from the movement of molecules in a gas or the vibration of atoms.And like you put it:
The first law states that the change in internal energy of a system is equal to the heat added to the system minus the work done by the system.
Thus the system(the universe) would be receiving energy that isnt dissipated in the 'work'.Excess internal energy if you will.Which simply means that you'd be creating energy,when energy can only be transformed from one form to another. Quantum particles divide into an infinite amount of variations every moment. I do not believe thermodynamics apply to the multi-verse theory.
Mr U Exactly. Multi-verse is not affected by time since you have an infinite number of universes existing at an infinite number of points in time. Hence the entire theory that time travel, in a manner of speaking, would be possible using quantum foam or worm holes to jump from universe to universe. For more information on this please see that crappy show Sliders which was on basic cable, then got canned and then was picked up again on the Sci-Fi channel. Actually it applies in a sense much more to a multi-verse.Each universe in each timeline being a system on its own,the energy of the time-traveler cannot exist in the other universes without contradicting the thermodynamic laws.You see,I initially came to the conclusion of time-travel simply being impossible when i read about all the different paradoxes it created.The only solution to them was the impossibility of time-travel.Thats why when I heard of this theory,I though this is the most likely option. Except it really isnt time travel. Seriously. It isnt. You would simply be going to another universe. Thats it. In which case all of the travel is done by the quantum foam, which becomes the system involved with the first law, thus removing any of the universes from the equation. Even so.Let's take the Sliders show you were talking about.The amount of energy you represent in this universe,already exists in the other universe.So there cant be 2 of you in one universe!
BUUUUT.(For there is a but).The question is:When one travels in time(into the past or into the future),isn't another one of his counter-parts doing the same voyage onto his universe thus compensating the loss of energy caused by the departure or the initial time-traveler? :D You arent thinking infinite enough. There will be different versions of you on some of them, but not all. You have to remember, not only are that at different times but can be drastically different in many ways from the one we currently reside in. Why can't there be two of the same? Every atom is exactly the same as the other. There is no difference. They can exist together. Why couldn't two people exist in the same universe? This is a problem created by some not-so-knowledgable sci-fi author.
One part of energy does not differ from the other.
When we view the entire multi-verse as being a closed system, interaction between two universes is possible. How can reality be limited by our perception?
Mr U There fact that you dont exist doesnt mean that the energy you're made up of doesn't exist.And now to quote myself:
When one travels in time(into the past or into the future),isn't another one of his counter-parts doing the same voyage onto his universe thus compensating the loss of energy caused by the departure or the initial time-traveler?
Like i said i liked this theory,until i thought of the above.(which basically kills it!).
edit:
Why can't there be two of the same? Every atom is exactly the same as the other. There is no difference. They can exist together. Why couldn't two people exist in the same universe? This is a problem created by some not-so-knowledgable sci-fi author.
One part of energy does not differ from the other.
When we view the entire multi-verse as being a closed system, interaction between two universes is possible. How can reality be limited by our perception?
Mr U
It was just to say that the amount of energy your are made of is already taken by your other you.In other words your presence is ADDING to the already present energy of the universe,which is impossible.
The multiverse theory is the one that says that modiications create a alternate universe when something is modified right?If that is the case,then it cannot be in a closed system,because each modification would also be impossible since its creating energy within the system(The new universe).Thus the system cannot be a closed one. No, new matter is not created. You do not understand the elementary matter of the multi-verse theory. Instead of interpreting wikipedia info, I'd recommend reading up on quantum physics. The days of Einstein are over. Before you can make a clean judgement on theories being possible or not, do research.
Mr U Yes, please. i dont really feel like trying to break this down Barney style for you anymore. You are missing the simple parts of this in an attempt to standfast against time travel, which as I have said, really isnt even the issue here. All angry i see.Well, i don't know why you're getting so hyped up.But i can tell by your 'the days of einstein are over ' statement that u just read and spit up what you read in ,well whatever it is you read.Computer's can retain a lot of information.It doesnt mean they can think!And i know for having met millions of kids like you,that all you know about quantum physics is the spelling.
edit:
missed thedon's part.
ok,cant you read????????Oh you can!Then read!!!! When did I ever suggest that computers can think? Having met millions of kids like me? All I know is the spelling? It is true that my knowledge on the field of Quantum Physics is limited. My current field of study does not allow me the time to go indepth on it, and I severely lack the mathemetical knowledge that is required from quantum physicists. However, I am not the one here professing that a theory supported by a multitude of scientists who have that mathemetical knowledge, and the practical knowledge of quantum physics, is wrong.
Buy: Clicky! (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521564573/202-9876624-7723848)
Mr U Yet another interesting book added to my amazon wishlist. And when were either of us ever angry? Perhaps bored of walking around in circles because you wont allow the thread to move forward, but not angry. But I must admit, meeting a million different kids is pretty impressive. I probably havent met half that number. And no, I cant read. I happen to be blind. But thanks for pointing that out. Dick. Good to see you've calmed down.I'll check out the book. First Warning. -HU I'd hate to get a first warning in pink Ilavos. lol
About the time travel... why would it be impossible to travel forward? In an infinity of dimensions there would be forcibly one where the traveller pops up after his identical doubles death no? :rolleyes: I'd hate to get a first warning in pink Ilavos. lol
About the time travel... why would it be impossible to travel forward? In an infinity of dimensions there would be forcibly one where the traveller pops up after his identical doubles death no? :rolleyes:
You have to realize that just because you're dead doesnt mean that the energy that you're made of is gone,it just transforms.It is possible to exist in the same time as yourself,you just have to find a way to get rid of the excess energy that your presence represents.This violation of the laws of thermodynamics is actually quite known to physicist.But just like with the paradox of causality,they have no answer to it!
And all I am saying here is,rather than saying :"Time travel is possible but there's no answer to the paradoxes", i say "The solution to all this and to these paradoxes is time travel isnt possible".Simple suggestion. Okay. I'll play along.
Prove that the Universe is a closed system.
Oh, and what the hell is the causality paradox?
Mr U You have to realize that just because you're dead doesnt mean that the energy that you're made of is gone,it just transforms.It is possible to exist in the same time as yourself,you just have to find a way to get rid of the excess energy that your presence represents.This violation of the laws of thermodynamics is actually quite known to physicist.But just like with the paradox of causality,they have no answer to it!
And all I am saying here is,rather than saying :"Time travel is possible but there's no answer to the paradoxes", i say "The solution to all this and to these paradoxes is time travel isnt possible".Simple suggestion.
Well ok, but this supposes that the laws of thermodynamics actually apply to said dimension, no? What if they dont? This sounds like a closed system to me, if you limit the idea of travel only to a universe where your laws apply then no but I thought we were discussing this thing in a more general manner? After all nobody even tried to think up a way of travelling. The possibility of the travel in itself is so far fetched that it could very well be possible but only in a form of universe where the normal laws of physic dont apply?
It's like that light-speed business. If you cross the light-speed barrier you enter unfamiliar grounds, or not? Well ok, but this supposes that the laws of thermodynamics actually apply to said dimension, no? What if they dont? This sounds like a closed system to me, if you limit the idea of travel only to a universe where your laws apply then no but I thought we were discussing this thing in a more general manner? After all nobody even tried to think up a way of travelling. The possibility of the travel in itself is so far fetched that it could very well be possible but only in a form of universe where the normal laws of physic dont apply?
It's like that light-speed business. If you cross the light-speed barrier you enter unfamiliar grounds, or not?
You're right.These laws have to apply in order for any of this to actually mean anything.
Okay. I'll play along.
Prove that the Universe is a closed system.
Oh, and what the hell is the causality paradox?
Mr U
Ouch!That'll lead to trying to prove if the expansion of the universe is infinite or if it'll stop and eventually crash upon itself.I don't have that pretention!But since either scenarios are possible,i just stand by the one that allows the laws of thermodynamics to actually apply.
The causality paradox is somewhat the opposite of the grandfather paradox.Rather than preventing yourself from being born,you happen to be one of your ancestors or you happen to have caused the events which later lead to your traveling back in time in the first place. The causality paradox does not apply to multi-verses, because the events you set off are in a different universe all together. Do you even know what the multi-verse theory is?
Ouch? So you admit it's possible that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply, without even bothering to form a rational theory about it, yet subscribe it as the only valid paradox (causality paradox does not apply) against time-travel? Do you actually believe someone will take you serious?
There are no paradoxes in time travel when it comes to the multi-verse theory. Time-travel in this instance is possible, if we can bridge through the 'gap' between universes.
Mr U You're talking about the theory that our universe is actually just the for us visible part which is actually just one universe in a multifarious set of universes, right?
clicky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse)
Unless you were talking about the matrix propagande theory that our universe is a simulation, in which case I have responded wrong the whole time lol?
clicky... (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2004/220704multiversetheory.htm) The causality paradox does not apply to multi-verses, because the events you set off are in a different universe all together. Do you even know what the multi-verse theory is?
Ouch? So you admit it's possible that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply, without even bothering to form a rational theory about it, yet subscribe it as the only valid paradox (causality paradox does not apply) against time-travel? Do you actually believe someone will take you serious?
There are no paradoxes in time travel when it comes to the multi-verse theory. Time-travel in this instance is possible, if we can bridge through the 'gap' between universes.
Mr U
Yes,it is possible that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply.Just as it is possible that none of the laws of physics might not apply either.Question being are you trying to understand how the universe works and what can be gained from such knowledge or are you trying to shape the universe in a way that fits best your fantasies?
I did not say the causality paradox was what was stoping time travel from being possible.I said that the paradox had not yet been solved.
These are not my theories!I did not come up with them.And i do not have the pretention of saying that my opinion is the right one.But if you read the first post by which this thread started you'll see that Snoopy asked if anyone thought time travel was possible.MY take on it was that it wasn't,based on the theories I thought where best. Awww dont mind Pinky and his mind-slapping lol it's his way of saying hellooo lol
(and if he responds that means that your post interested him somewhat. ;) ) Unless you were talking about the matrix propagande theory that our universe is a simulation, in which case I have responded wrong the whole time lol?
clicky... (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2004/220704multiversetheory.htm)
Not even I am not that strange, lol. Nah, the first :).
I said that the paradox had not yet been solved.
And I say that I am the Sun God and that all power is me and that all power is great and that I am great and before me there are none as great as me. Still, the chance of me being the Sun God are pretty slim. The Causality paradox does not apply to the multiverse theory. This has nothing to do with any kind of discussion, denying this and believing in this denial is foolish. I can understand if you don't believe in, per example, evolution. But don't go telling me evolution means God created the Earth 6000 years ago, because that's not what it says.
MY take on it was that it wasn't,based on the theories I thought where best.
What the hell are you on about? Raping some crippled lines from Christian dogmatists concerning the monoverse (excuse the greek ;)) and than applying them to a multiverse theory is beyong absurd. You show yourself to be more moronic than those people who disbelief in science. They accept the contents of science, and disbelief in the whole. They don't take bits out and rape it by pointing at unrelated and solved paradoxes.
Now, this is not me angry or pissed. This is me utterly suprised at you being moronic. Now, this is not me flaming you either. Truly, I believe you are a moron. I can find no other explanation as to how you can so misinterpret the theories 'you choose the best from'. Have you even read one book on Quantum Physics or Relativity? *Gasp* Did you study physics at your highschool?
The internet is a great place to discuss and find information. It's not a great place to learn Quantum Physics or Relativity. It takes a lot of time, a lot of energy and a good instructor. And maybe, when you have heard the story from three different people (as is usual), the coin will fall.
Mr U See now you're just nervous and 'shakey'.I know this because the number of spelling errors just increased like hell!Watch out.
Next time,don't quote me like you're doing the commercial for some lowsy movie and take 3/4 of what i said out so you'll make it look like i said things I didnt say.(hope it's not too much for you)
You're going about a whole lot of non sense and namecalling.I'd do the same,but you'd censor me.Angry and pissed people do that.I really would go on about this whole thing,but i'll just quote Machiavelli:
"In this world there are 3 kinds of people.Those who understand things straight on,those who understand with a lilttle help,and those (like you) who just don't[...]".
Now act like a mod and bring this thread back on topic instead of making it your personal battle field.That's what the PMs are for. Boys... perhaps you should either chill or even better split the last posts and move them to a new thread at the Blitzkrieg and have a nice flamewar thus increasing my vocabulary with new interesting expressions. I'd even wager some points on the funniest flames... I dont think time travel is real and i dont know why you would want to time travel. If u did and changed sumthin in the past u screw up the good things in the future(at least u might). No offense, but if u actually want to time travel, i think that shows u r one of those ppl who just is never happy with their life. Well...i believe that time travel were ever to be possible, it would only be to the future, no backwards. Otherwise u could easily disrupt the space time continuim...so if u wanna go 3000 years into the future and be stuck there...have fun! And thus the thread downgraded from more or less serious discussion to comic level for kids. Way to go. There was never a serious discussion to be found here. Nope. This thread was nothing but someone who read a pseudo-science site, and applied the faulty paradoxes given there to a different situation and was suprised when people laughed at him for it.
Well...i believe that time travel were ever to be possible, it would only be to the future, no backwards. Otherwise u could easily disrupt the space time continuim...so if u wanna go 3000 years into the future and be stuck there...have fun!
You have no idea what space-time contiuum is, do you?
^ You see, that's the whole problem. Kids these days watch Star Trek, read an article, and believe they understand the foundation of relativity and quantum physics without ever reading a single book about it. No, you are not the smartest person in the world, or the only one who grasps your own special, unique, and most of all, true theory. You are just another guy on the street who will still be explaining his theories over 20 years, impressing pre-schoolers with his use of big, grown-up words.
Oh, and of course the usage of formulas..
e^(π*i)+1=0
Mr U There is some interesting discussion up there--good job! I like it.
Incidentally, I did not read a pseudo-science site; I just wanted to know what everyone else thought about this.
End of line.
-Snoopy Oh, that was not referencing to you, but to Ilavos.
Mr U You see, that's the whole problem. Kids these days watch Star Trek, read an article, and believe they understand the foundation of relativity and quantum physics without ever reading a single book about it. No, you are not the smartest person in the world, or the only one who grasps your own special, unique, and most of all, true theory. You are just another guy on the street who will still be explaining his theories over 20 years, impressing pre-schoolers with his use of big, grown-up words.
You should really listen to yourself sometimes.This applies to you more than anyone else. Let it go. This thread is obviously dead and will only continue to degenerate further with each reply. Ilavos, I have to agree with Mr. U I'm sorry but, you're a moron.
Listen, it's very easy to understand.
world line (multiverse) theory means that every choice you make creates a branch in existence. This branch does not only apply to choices but to every single aspect of one world line to the next.
The difference between one and the next could be as minute as a single hydrogen atom in the atmosphere of our planet, or as vast as the lack of a universe all together.
Multiverse theory is the most stable and logical theory according to mathematical calculation. Grandfather paradox (causality paradox) DOES NOT APPLY to multiverse theory, why? Because according to multiverse theory as soon as you travel backward through time you change from one universe to another, meaning that any changes you make there, won't affect your future, they will affect the future of the worldine you've changed things on.
Now this being said, the reason I think you're a moron (and as Mr. U I am not flaming, I just literally believe that you're ignorant and cocky) is because this fact has nothing to do with anything in physics. The fact that the causality paradox does not apply has nothing to do with the theory itself, it's basic common sense. If there is a building with two identical rooms and you travel from room B into room A and throw the chairs arround and make a mess, room B won't be changed because of what you did in room A.
How hard is that to understand?
Now, some people think "Why would you want to go back in time?" ESPECIALLY if you can't change stuff for your future because it's a different worldine!
Well guess what, just because you can't change things, it doesn't mean you can't take things from the past and bring them to your time. Think of all the knowledge that can be had travelling to the past to simply observe! Or to visit a deceased relative, you would even be able to in some sick way bring the dead back to life! They'd probably make laws against that though...
Oh and
See now you're just nervous and 'shakey'.I know this because the number of spelling errors just increased like hell!Watch out.
He's making spelling mistakes because he's typing frantically at the astonishment that a human being in his midst is displaying such lack of common sense for the sole purpose of continuing a debate that has obviously ended quite some time ago.
By the way, you need to learn how to peroperly use punctuation, so don't be ragging on other peoples spelling when you've stumbled off the illiterate tree and hit every branch on the way down.
Thank you and goodnight, I'm here all week. Oh and just to throw a little extra, time travel is already (in some sense) proven.
Take a ceisium clock and put it up in space, on the spacestation, take anothere ceisium clock and put it deep under ground near the earths core.
Their times will read differently (only by an extremely minute number) when you get them back after a period of time.
Why? Because time is not a constant. Time is affected by gravity. This is proven.
When you are closer to a gravitational point of large mass, time will slow down.
That's why time stops at the center of a black hole, now, if we had exotic energy to throw around we could bridge the gap at the event horizon of the black hole and travel to the universe on the other side.
OR if we had two rotating kerr black holes and fed electrons onto their surface (which don't get sucked in but travel on the suraface of the event horizon altering the density and field of the black hole) Then we could pass through the blackhole without being smooshed by it's immense gravity. Also, when at that point time becomes a sinusoidial function, you remember that from highschool? Go one way or the other baby, however, this pulls string theory into the mix and we got a veritable theory frenzy!
Howerver, these are just that: theories. Can't prove them because A: We don't have black holes to play around with but I'm hoping CERN will fix that soon with the new LHC :D (MICRO SINGULARITIES :D :D :D)
B: Cause even if we HAD black holes we don't have the technoligy to contain them not to mention the fact that time travel would need ridiculously powerful computers in order to calculate the trajectory in order to not time travel yourself into a wall or out in the middle of space.
If I had a time travelling machine I'd go back to yesterday and save one of my infinite selfes from eating that KFC, ugh man.
WHICH is another cool point to bring up. MR. U Don't fear! There's a universe in existence where you've ripped your way into Ilavos's stomach with a spoon and spread his entrails all over his bedroom floor. Cause if there's an infinite number of universes for an infinite number of differences in each one, then everything's been done, and everything will be done and there's a version of myself doing everything I want to do, just wish I could trade places with him.
HECK THAT means that there's a version of me that time travelled back to save another one of myselves from having that KFC! ACTUALLY, There's an INFINITE number of Me's doing it to an INFINITE number of other me's who haven't had bad KFC yet!
Maybe I'll have a me knock on my door in a second telling me not to do something else! That would be cool.
There's one thing I don't understand about all this.
If there's an infinite amount of people doing an infinite amount of things why aren't there an infinite amount of people teleporting themsleves here now? Cause technically there's a place where there ARE an infinite amount of people time travelling to the same place...
I've asked this question before and got an answer but wasn't paying attention, but if anyone can answer (again) I'll try to pay attention this time.
Oh and SCREW YOU, I LIKED SLIDERS! IT WAS NOT CRAPPY
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