Terri Schiavo...Is what they doing murder???

Ok, this is a touchy topic...
I do not agree on them taking off her feeding tube...She breathes on her own, n they sincerely have no clue what is going on in her mind, really...
Being a mother, I couldn't bare doing what they r doing to their daughter...
Under Florida law, Mr. Schiavo is Mrs. Schiavo's legal guardian, although her family is seeking his removal as guardian ostensibly so that they can assume responsibility for Mrs. Schiavo's care. To date, Mr. Schiavo has successfully fought those efforts in court.
All I can ask is why???
Mrs. Schiavo's family has been battling her husband over her fate since 1993. Although she never wrote a living will expressing a wish to refuse nutrition or medical treatment if disabled, Mr. Schiavo claims that he recalls conversations they had had which make him sure she would not want to continue living in such a state, and two of his relatives have supported that claim.
Give her back to her parents. Let them take care of her, n they r willing to do it...They gave her life n will always love her unconditionally..Her husband as moved on, he now has a wife n 2 kids..Why the hell ain't he letting her parents care for her...
I just don't understand how they can do this to her..Its not like she is in a coma n needs a machine breathe for her. She is capable of breathing on her own...All she needs is the feeding tube...as my grandmother once needed it..
Is he afraid that if he give her back to her parents. They may discover a dark secret that he had been hiding...
I myself cannot understand there decision of starving her too death...I feel the parents pain..n I feel like it murder...
She is severly brain damage not brain dead...
Mrs. Schiavo's parents' expressed willingness to keep her alive by any means necessary, including quadruple amputation, as a key reason for denying transfer of guardianship to the Schindlers.
But that happens even to those who r paralyzed, bed ridden..
I know this may be a diffiuclt topic to discuss.
But we have to respect others for their opinion on this...
But I guess I have to step back n put my motherly ways to side n remember Million Dollar Baby...
This is a harsh world we live in :(
Here is the web site where I some of her info, Terri Schiavo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo)

There are two stances here, from my point. You either believe the woman should live, or that the woman should die. I see it as being that simple. Three judges have declared that the woman should die, and seeing as she has been living like a plant since 1990, I can't blame them.

What I find utterly repulsive is the way president Bush is handling this. Believing in something is one thing, but neglecting democracy, of which trias politica is a vital part, whilst on a mission to spread democracy through the world is more than hypocrite. It is a despicable act of treachery to the US people, and everyone not rebelling to this is denying his own capital rights.

Rights that include the right to live. How can anyone bother about the life of one woman, when your freedom is on the line? It's beyond me.

Mr U

There are forces engaged in an ideological battle that are exploiting the husband, parents, and this poor woman for their own politics. Everything has to be scandal or headline for a decision to be made in America.

I can't believe that Bush is stepping in on this one. Even for him that's extremely dirty. He has NO RIGHT to consistenly deny the court's ruling, the established legal rights of the husband, and the death of a woman who isn't even alive. All that stuff you heard about her case having "hope" is crock. She needs a damn tube to eat. That's like saying an Parkinson's patient will one day suddenly jump up and start figure skating, or a guy with no short term memory will suddenly be able to think about what happened yesterday. It's unrealistic, impossible, and alltogether disgusting. If not for her sake, at least kill her to preserve what little dignity medicine has left under the Republican legislature.

I mean, the blatent hypocrasy of this is mind-boggling. Bush passes a fucking law making it so that people on life support must have the plug pulled if they can't pay for it (even babies), and then the Congress makes a big stink about ONE woman who's been in a vegatative state for 15 years and is never coming back. Talk about an infringment of
1. State laws (Florida law allows it to be done)
2. The lower courts (they've already decided that the plug is to be pulled and the SCOTUS has declined to make a ruling about it, effectively agreeing with them)
3. Sancity of marriage (the husband wants the plug pulled)
4. Personal rights (making a Terri Law violates the equal rights provision in the Constitution)

And the list goes on. Good bye freedom! Hello theocracy! Of course, all this shit will be forgotten in a month by the ADD-riddled US populace.

Ok, if she wouldn't be able to live on her own, and has been that way for over ten years, perhaps this is best.

Yes, I understand the importance of life, but look at the situation here. How is her life benefitting her? Honestly, how would you feel if you were in that situation?

I had a uncle that was in a motorcycle accident when he was twenty. "Luckily," he lived. Yeah, lived, but was in a vegetable state for ten fucking years. I remember as a kid going to see Uncle Stanley, and it being just weird. Everyone talked to him like he could respond, but then they'd also stand there in front of him, talking about how they wondered whether or not it'd be right to pull the plug. Due to legal crap, we couldn't. I was nine years old when he finally died (from what, I don't know. It isn't discussed at all now, and at the time they just didn't tell me or my siblings).

His last years "alive" were so painful, especially for my dad (his brother). After Uncle Stan died, Dad just seemed free to live his own life. We didn't have to go visit him twice a week, say our hellos and good wishes. I'm sorry, but there's nothing more confusing to a little kid than having to go visit someone that's as active as the deceased. We couldn't hug him because of all the cords and tubes; we could talk to him, but he'd never respond.

All I know is I ever end up in that state, the best thing anyone can do is take me out back and shoot me.

I'm gonna have to agree with u there..
As I mentioned before I am a mother n would hate to give up on my daughter..But then I would have to stop, n think if I would of wanted this even for myself...N the truth to that as u all already know, I don't.....
I guess it is the best thing to do for her...Even thou how pain full it will be to the parents...Seeing there daughter lay there dying of starvation...I would never wanna go through that myself....

no, that's really quite harsh, letting her slowly die of starvation.

I gave in and *gasp* watched the news this evening. I really didn't fully think about how long that'd take and alll...in my mind, it was like, "Oh, well, remove the feeding tube, in a day or so she'll be dead because she's dependant." I blame my lack of common sense on too much sleep.

Like you mentioned, Niva, it'd take two to three weeks for that to kill her; what a terrible, cruel way to go.

They also showed Terri, and she looks a lot more able than they make her sound in various articles. I mean, she was upright, looking around, and smiling. That's a hell of a lot more than uncle stan ever did.

I don't know, I just don't know what would be the right thing to do in this situation.

There are forces engaged in an ideological battle that are exploiting the husband, parents, and this poor woman for their own politics. Everything has to be scandal or headline for a decision to be made in America.

I can't believe that Bush is stepping in on this one. Even for him that's extremely dirty. He has NO RIGHT to consistenly deny the court's ruling, the established legal rights of the husband, and the death of a woman who isn't even alive. All that stuff you heard about her case having "hope" is crock. She needs a damn tube to eat. That's like saying an Parkinson's patient will one day suddenly jump up and start figure skating, or a guy with no short term memory will suddenly be able to think about what happened yesterday. It's unrealistic, impossible, and alltogether disgusting. If not for her sake, at least kill her to preserve what little dignity medicine has left under the Republican legislature.

I mean, the blatent hypocrasy of this is mind-boggling. Bush passes a fucking law making it so that people on life support must have the plug pulled if they can't pay for it (even babies), and then the Congress makes a big stink about ONE woman who's been in a vegatative state for 15 years and is never coming back. Talk about an infringment of
1. State laws (Florida law allows it to be done)
2. The lower courts (they've already decided that the plug is to be pulled and the SCOTUS has declined to make a ruling about it, effectively agreeing with them)
3. Sancity of marriage (the husband wants the plug pulled)
4. Personal rights (making a Terri Law violates the equal rights provision in the Constitution)

And the list goes on. Good bye freedom! Hello theocracy! Of course, all this shit will be forgotten in a month by the ADD-riddled US populace.

Amen. :D


Seriously though, my heart goes out to this family. I have a three year old son and I could not imagine having to go through something like this. I am married also and I will tell you this much: If my wife kept me in the vegatative state that Mrs. Schiavo is in or gave up on me by turning me over to my parents essentially ignoring my wishes, I would haunt her for the rest of her life. I may not have a living will but my wife and I have had many intimate, hypothetical conversation about what are wishes would be in a situation such as this. No doubt Terri and her husband had these same conversations because at one time they loved each other and shared their lives together intimately. Terri's husband may not have been the best man, but he is no better or worse than any other troubled husband in a troubled marriage. Hell, I am no saint but I remain committed to be the best husband and father I can be.

Terri's parents cling to the notion of life because they cannot deal with their daughter's death. This is understandable but there is a parameter of reason here that once breached leads to illogical action. And now, Congress has overstepped their bounds with this offensive display of political propoganda. Interesting how illogical action can spill over to other venues. Anyone who feels that Congress is doing this for justice, due process, sanctity of life is a fool. This was a no-brainer for Republicans who saw this as a free ride to politically sway the "pro-life" base and win over new conservative votes for mid-term elections coming up next year. I read a few articles in the Washington Post that cited memos sent amongst the Republican leadership outlining the political capital this issue would have for them. Repugnant!!!

For those who don't believe this, ask yourself this question: What is particularly unique or different about Terri Schiavo compared to the thousands of other American citizens who would have liked Congressional assistance with a similar situation? I swear.........the things we Americans pay attention to......... :rolleyes: If only other more pertinent issues would get this kind of response from Congress, we could have many of our domestic issues resolved.

I think it is radical and incredulous that compassionate conservatives will do anything for Life without giving any common sensical regard for Quality of Life. Terri does not have a life that is dignified, enriching, or purposeful. From a spiritual standpoint, I think that Terri's spirit(soul) could very well be trapped in limbo unable to move on because selfish individuals will not let her go. I only say this because Terri's parents are religious and many of those who feel Terri should be "saved" are religious too. Funny that they do not consider Terri's spirit and what it might be going through right now. They are not truly thinking about Terri.

Lastly, this whole starvation and dehydration thing is seriously overdramaticized. She cannot feel the starvation or dehydration. There is no torture because she cannot perceive it in anyway. One-hundred forty doctors have examined her in fifteen years and she is clearly gone. I have had family members in the hospital who did not want heroic measures taken. They had their tubes taken out and they enjoyed their last few days. They eventually died because they could not take in food or water but the cancer or the diabetes was going to take them anyway. So, this "please don't starve Terri" nonsense is over-blown emotional hype devoid of sensible thinking. It's funny how conservatives think liberals say crazy things to make their points. It goes both ways. Wake up America........we are too easily distracted these days getting boinked up the bum by Washington while we focus on things that are not our business.

Even though I'm supposedly on vacation, i feel the need to comment on this.......

1) The poor woman has been living like this for 15 years now. Mr. Schavio has been fighting her parents in court for at least 7 years to try and get her off the feeding tube so she can die in peace. I respect this man because I believe that he is genuine when he says that he made a promise to her. You know why? They have offered him 1.5 million dollars to drop this case. And he still won't. He could walk away from this case a millionaire, but he won't because he made a promise to his wife. He really has not a whole lot to gain by furthering this case.
2) I understand where the parents are coming from, even though I am not a parent. However, I do not understand why they claim she is getting better when she has been in the same state for 15 years. Now, I worked in a nursing home for about six months and I know how some of these vegitated people are. Thgey have no idea what's going on 99% of the time. But I suppose I have no juristiction over Terri's case because I am not a doctor and I have not seen Terri in person. Why now are doctors questioning her diagnosis? Its been the same for years, why question it now? I understand her parents concerns, but maybe it is time for them to let their daughter go. Their spokesman came out today and said that she was weak and compared in the past when he said she was "laughing and talking." Talking? If she could talk we wouldn't have this problem. So that guy is evidently full of shit. And I know he said talking because I was watching MSNBC when he made a statement today.
3) Thirdly, the government intervening in this case at all is completely inappropriate in my opinion. Republicans have violated their core belief of minimum government intervention by stepping into this. The last ounce of respect I had for the Bush family is now gone. The only reason that the politicians have stepped into this is to boost their image as "pro-life". However, they have called Terri a "godsend" to divert attention from the acts of Tom Dolay (or whatever his name is). This is nothing but an attempt to boost public image on the Republicans part. They will pay for this dearly in the next election, I believe.
4) Lastly, put yourself in the place of Terri Schiavo. Would you want your face plastered on newspapers and TV screens across the country in the state that she is in? If she were in her right mind, can you imagine how embarrassed she would be? I don't think that anyone would want that. This to me has not become about Terri anymore. Each side has their own agenda, and everyone just wants to further their cause.
Let the poor woman die, and let her rest. She is not in any pain.

I agree with PP......if I were like that, I would rather be let go than lie prone and uncommunicative in a bed for 15 years. I think that its wrong for all these right to life people to try and fight to keep a woman alive that they don't even know. Why can't everyone just leave Terri and her loved ones alone and let them deal with this terrible situation? Learned doctors and medical proffesionals have declared that she will never recover from her vegitative state. Today I read in the newspaper that doctors found that most of her brain has died and been replaced with something like a watery slush. That is no way to live. Some may think its cruel to "starve" her to death, but really, how else is she going to die, short of shooting her? I don't even know if euthanasia is legal in the States. Let her die in peace so no one has to suffer anymore.

Even though I'm supposedly on vacation, i feel the need to comment on this.......

1) The poor woman has been living like this for 15 years now. Mr. Schavio has been fighting her parents in court for at least 7 years to try and get her off the feeding tube so she can die in peace. I respect this man because I believe that he is genuine when he says that he made a promise to her. You know why? They have offered him 1.5 million dollars to drop this case. And he still won't. He could walk away from this case a millionaire, but he won't because he made a promise to his wife. He really has not a whole lot to gain by furthering this case.

Check this out then. http://www.conservativetruth.org/article.php?id=2019

Ive felt from the beginning there was more to this case than just a so called "compasionate" husband trying to put his wife at rest, and this article only reasures me there is. There is so much more going on in this case beyond just the well being of Terri. And unfortunately this is the time to do it while everything is out in the open.

That is no way to live. Some may think its cruel to "starve" her to death, but really, how else is she going to die, short of shooting her? I don't even know if euthanasia is legal in the States. Let her die in peace so no one has to suffer anymore.

That or the tube could be reinserted and this unusual/cruel charade could continue for another 15 years while whats left of her brain will deteriorate even further.

THE CONSERVATIEV TRUTH? "The Antidote to the liberal news media"?

US politicians are using this woman to become identified with certain moral values. Bush wants to be known as the moral president. Bush, is right-wing. That site is right-wing. That site is very right-wing. I am right-wing, but that site is on a whole different scale.

Is there another source that can back up that information, because I put large question marks with this site.

Mr U

PP edit: don't be an ass.

Terry Schiavo (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7293186/?GT1=6305) passed away this morning.

Well then, here come the many lawsuits that will follow. The fun and bullshit have only begun...

RIP Terri. Wasn't her husband going to ask for an autopsy to prove how extensive her brain damage was, and that he didn't strangle her all those years ago?

A side note - Today I read in the newspaper an interesting comparison or Terri and Pope John Paul. The pope (who is close to death) has been put on a Nasogastric tube in order to eat, because he now can't swallow. I think it his is wish that he stay being fed like this so he can have a dignified death.

Firstly, I would like to think that person in vegetation state is as good as dead. 'Cause they can't speak or do anything. But, I know it is also wrong to think it that way. It won't be fair for the person cares about her.

It maybe cruel, but if that is what she had wished for before she went deep into comatose, I don't think it is called murder.

But then again, it wont be fair Mr. Schiavo too. He can't carry that burden forever. He is fit and need to carry on living as anyone else.

Its sounds like murder, but when you think about it carefully, it was just a bad a difficult choice. One that involves ending someones lives.


When my father in law was hopitalized for the second time, he knew he had from 1 to none. My mother in law insisted that he should be tubed feed and kept alived. The thing is, although his body is alived, his brain stoip functioning. He was breathing assisted by a machine. Our whole family would want to see him lying there day after day in the hospital, but logically, he will never speak again. When we finally decided to end his misery my mother in-law went against it and threw a harsh and bad language to me. She said, I am a ungrateful person and that her daughter had made a bad choice marrying a man like me.. and among other things..... a year has passed, and we are still a family.

What I'm saying is that, the death of Terry Schiavo should had never involved government and courts, legal stuff. Their whole family should had come down together and discussed what is the best solution. So that when a decision had finally been made, the memory of her would linger sweetly in their mind instead of bad memories. Terry Schiavo death will be tragiccally instilled in her families mind, because it invokes controversy.

So you value a person's life based on what they can do? No one but Terri knew what she could or couldn't do. I'm sick of people thinking they have the right to play God. Maybe we should kill all the mentally handicapped people who don't contribute much to our society as well.

It's as if we don't have enough murder and hatred in this world already. How bout pro-life, pro-freedom for once.

So, allowing someone a peaceful death is "playing God" but forcing them to be kept alive isn't?

What if you KNOW the person would have wanted to die? Where's your pro-freedom then?

i already have a will that states that should i be completely incompacitated, ie a vegitative state in which i am not aware, or that they can prove that my brain function is basic to stay alive, or surviving alone on modern technology; that i be let to die with what little dignity my medical state leaves me with. but then again living in australia, with the laws of euthanasia the way they are, that alone with a signed legal will stating that would still be a court battle. everyone has ideals of humanity and being alive. sadly i cant see the scene of loosing ones dignity or awareness and still being kept alive for years after the fact.

It is her own fault. The idea of a living will has been around for many years. It has been given media attention as far back as 25 years. If people dont understand the value of having a living will by this point, or even by the point the Terry had her wittle accident, then that is their problem and they should probably die anyway. Look at all the trouble and money caused by this one single case, simply because ol Terry didnt want to bother with a living will.

^ I agree. Even though I don't agree with taking someone off life support at all, we have to follow the law, and there should have been no argument over whether she lives or dies. If the person has not set up a living will or durable power of attorney, then they should stay on life support; it's not up to anyone else to judge who is worthy to live.

I don't consider it as murder. She was only living on machines, and she didn't recover. I

Suffering and having to live like that was terrible and a crime in itself. If it was HER wish, whether that be on paper via a lawyer, or spoken from herself, then she deserved to have her wishes granted. This was her life, and it should have been her choice.

My brother verbally stated to me to pull the plug on him if it came to that, and I respected his wishes and did so. I have no regrets, and considered it an honor that he asked me to be the one, for he knew I wouldn't fuck about and fight like the other members of my family.

(ftr, I had 2 brothers, 1 half and one full. The one I'm stating above was my full brother as I don't recognise the other. That's another story bla bla. Just so those wondering aren't confused.)