Bullshit Vs Lying: The Truth Gets Raped.

Who just said that all philosophy could be considered bullsh!t? Hey? You? Huh? Wat? Anyway...

Harry Frankfurt, one of the world's most esteemed moral philosophers and a professor in the hallowed halls of Princeton University, has recently published a book on the philosophical implications of bullshit.

He argues that bullshit is an entity in itself and is different from lying. He states: "The liar knows what the truth is and he is concerned with trying to keep people away from the truth, this shows a respect for the truth and the value of truth. Whereas the bullshitter does not care at all."

Frankfurt argues that bullshit has a far more harmful impact on modern life. It is Frankfurt's belief that bullshit is far more dangerous than simple out-and-out lying. He believes that whereas lying can be negated by stating the factual truth of a matter, bullshit is is more difficult to destroy as it is compounded by elements of truth and personal point-of-view. He offers the marketing media - in both commercial and political arenas - as bastions of bullshit in the manipulative ways consumers are encouraged to 'believe' the quality of a product. He also believes that this has the detrimental affect of encouraging people to bullshit in their daily lives. Indeed, I'm sure everyone knows someone who is known to embellish the truth...I have an acquaintence who always has a story to tell about how he once spotted Tiger Woods in a gym in NYC or had a beer with some baseball player in LA or was called into a wave by Kelly Slater at Pipeline or is friend's with a popular Taiwanese singer...blah, blah, blah...

Anyway, what do you think about bullshit? Do you believe it to be different from lying? How do you differentiate the two? Are you a bullshitter? Do you know someone who is? How does it make you feel to be subjected to bullshit? Are there different levels of bullshit? Was Bush lying about WMDs in Iraq or was he bullshitting? Was John Kerry's attempt to build up his security credentials by citing his Vietnam experience an example of the genre? What other examples can you think of?

Talk, type and discuss...This is the nature of the thread.

George Bush is both a liar and a bullshitter. There, I said it.

Everyone is a bullshitter, really. We're all known to embellish the truth every so often, usually to make ourselves look better or to knock someone else off their perch. Spinning bullshit to others if different from lying in my book. WHen you bullshit, you're adding to a story. When you lie, your'e making up a new story alltogether.

You can't bullshit a bullshitter. And that's all I have to say about that. Goddamnit.

You're bullshitting me, right? Honestly? Well, I dunno, because a philosopher gets a BA not a BS, correct me if I'm wrong. If they do get a BS, then we have our answer right there for a certain Mr. Harry Frankfurt.

The two are different; however, I disagree that bullshitting is more harmful. When someone lies to you, you can be seriously hurt, emotionally or physically, because you have a vested belief in what that person is telling you. If I asked my wife, "Were you with another man last night?", and she told me no, I would commit my mind and my heart to her answer. If I found out she lied, the effects would be utterly devastating to me. Yes, I could easily destroy her lie by discovering "factual truth" but that does not diminish the reprecussions of what the truth actually is.

To the contrary, I know people who are known for being "full of shit" i.e., bullshitters and the impact is less than that of lying because there is a certain amount of disengagement taken on by those like me who sit down to here a bullshitter's story. T.V. commercials?.........Anyone who attaches any validity to advertisements is a major sucker. We bullshit to escape reality because many human beings do not like to deal with reality in some way, shape, or form. I never believe my buddies when they bullshit because I know they have a tendancy to bullshit. Plus, the subject matter that they bullshit about is mostly rather superficial and whether it is true or not does not have much of an impact on the well-being of others. A buddy of mine trying to tell me that he fucked three hot models as opposed to the drunk, ugly, fat chick he really went home with does not affect me as much as catching my wife in a lie of infidelity.

This guys from Princeton, huh? I'm not that impressed with what he is saying. Seems as though he is out of touch...........

Oh........and my wife and I are great.........just hypothetical........... :D

I think bullshit is far from being more destructive than straight lying. When someone is bullshitting you 99% of the time you can tell it right away(unless you're really naive).

I find lying to be a lot easier to deal with, both when im getting lied to or if im the one lying. If you're really trying to get someone to believe a lie it always contains some truth behind it. Otherwise it wouldnt be believable. A lie is like a rubber band, twsit it anyway you want and it still works :p.

Is the guy talking about compulsive liars then? I mean seriously, how many people are there that compulsively lie one hundred percent of the time? Almost all lies are out of self-interest, and it's only harmful if it's done by a person who has your trust.

I wouldn't say he's exactly full of shit but he is writing a book without really having anything new to say.

To me bullshitter's n liars r the same...
They ain't saying the truth...
A liar to me will lie they way out of something, n a bullshitter will lie they way out of it, but constantly adds more to it..
Now a person who is full shit, u can basically see what they r about...

Well thats how I view it...
But that philosopher must of had a blast writing this book...

I think what Frankfurt is saying is that a liar knows he/she is not telling the truth, whereas a bullshitter believes so much in his/her use of the truth that it is the truth.

Also, it is true that extravagent acts of bullshit are obvious, but others can be more cryptic. This has the affect of making people believe bullshit...a la 'evidence' of WMDs in Iraq...

So a bullshitter is another name for a chronic liar???

So a bullshitter is another name for a chronic liar???

I guess there are similarities, but the problem with the bullshitter is that they can corroborate their bullshit with selective facts, whereas the chronic liar is admonished by the truth.

Thats so true...Thanks for clearing it up...
Either way I try to stand clear from bullshitters n chronic liars...

I try to stand clear from bullshitters n chronic liars...
Don't read my posts.

LMAO, thats for the info...I will tke that under consideration....

[QUOTE=Ou Be Low hoo]Who just said that all philosophy could be considered bullsh!t? Hey? You? Huh? Wat? Anyway...

bullshit is an entity in itself and is different from lying. He states: "The liar knows what the truth is and he is concerned with trying to keep people away from the truth, this shows a respect for the truth and the value of truth. Whereas the bullshitter does not care at all."

you can never destroy the truth,you can only hide it,crush it,pretend it isnt there.
revelation=truth
believe it!

I want to protest the discrimination of goats. Goatshit works just as fine as bull.
I love goats. (Truly, they make an awsome curry. Not what you think.)

I love goats.
Counseling is the solution for you. Goatshit is merely the shit of goats, but bullshit is a versatile and universally accepted word with many meanings and can be slipped into various contexts. This is something that goatshit can only watch with tears of jealousy welling up in its eyes.

See, that's so nice with people without humor. They are at the merci of the rest of us.

I think 'mercy' is the wrong word to be using.

I did not say that I had any, did I?

Counseling is the solution for you. Goatshit is merely the shit of goats, but bullshit is a versatile and universally accepted word with many meanings and can be slipped into various contexts. This is something that goatshit can only watch with tears of jealousy welling up in its eyes.
What could bullshit mean besides "untrue"?

If you don't already know, it's not worth the time to explain. I suggest suicide.

...you don't know do you?

If you don't already know, it's not worth the time to explain. I suggest suicide.

you don't know how to read, do you?

Reading is for losers. And you don't, do you?

Everyone knows, everyone except for you it seems. You cant expect us to actually come down to your level and explain it.

Fine. Be that way. I always knew what it meant anyway. I just didn't feel like telling you.

You're like Ray Charles in the Louvre...you don't have a fucking clue.

You guys are mean.

You guys are mean.
From a certain point of view, you damn Jew.

I love rhyming.

fym:
Some definitions of bull:

Bullshit = obscene words for unacceptable behavior; "I put up with a lot of bullshit from that jerk"; "what he said was mostly bull"
talk through one's hat; "The politician was not well prepared for the debate and faked it"

Bullshit! (2003-) is a Showtime Channel TV program shown in the United States, hosted by professional magicians Penn Jillette and Teller. The aim of the show is to expose ideas they believe to be unscientific or pseudoscientific through scientific skepticism, and to expose promotors of such things - especially those with ulterior motives.


Bullshit is the more common name for a card game often described by the milder name "I doubt it", usually played by children. It is also known by other euphemisms such as "BS" or "Cheat". A non-euphemistic alternative name is "YFL": "You Fucking Liar".


Bullshit (or bull) is a common English expletive meaning "humbug" or "nonsense." It implies that the purveyor of alleged nonsense is willfully lying, or that he/she is speaking boldly from ignorance. It is also the verb meaning to talk bullshit.

And in MDK's case a bull is why he can sit now on TD's cock without getting hurt.

Feeling better kid? And how is the weather today in Israel?

I'm so blessed to have a forum full of literal bastards. It brings warmth to my heart.

Careful, too much heat will fry your balls.

I don't know where your balls are, but mine aren't very close to my heart, anatomically speaking. Thanks for the tip though.

Just reach down and behind. Mine are the bigger ones.

I always wondered what those were.

Why the hell are you back there anyway?

No special reason. Just driving my point home.

FOHR, you just brought two meanings: Untruthfulness, and unacceptable behaviour. The rest of the examples just mean the same things.

And since you asked the weather is shocking. I can barely sleep at night because of the unbearable heat. I hate summer.

Two words: Air Conditioning.

... and a shower...

... and a shower...
Yeah dude, you smell.

No dude, that's the pampers goo sticking to your nose.

lmao...FYM wears pampers? That explains a lot....

Just reach down and behind. Mine are the bigger ones.
What's with the homoerotic tendencies? Does it make you feel better? Did daddy not love you? Or did he love too much?

See, that's where I get you by your nonexisting balls SUGAR... cause I'm not a man. I'm a girl.

If that's the way you feel, more power to ya.

Insert Crying Game music here...LMFAO

Bananas...

Bows.
Hey, this IS the bullshitty and lying thread, right? he he he
I had to demonstrate.
Sorry Suicidal Bitch... but finally we wont be able to make out he he he

Thats not what you said last night.

Thats not what you said last night.

Awww now they will all think that we are lesbian. That's just so wrong when everybody elsewhere knows we are bi... ;)

ok sorry but i so have to say this, i aint bi, i dont bi (buy) it lmao