Boy Shot because of Toy Gun

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4191513.stm

I have no sympathy for this kid he wasnt seven or eight, he was 14 should have known better not to aim a weapon (toy or not) at an Isralie soldier in a VERY hostile area and expect not to get shot.

dear, it's crazy, crazy shit. I agree with you, Helios. He should have known better, as sad as the whole thing is.

A 14 year old is still a child. Although all of the circumstances of this situation are probably not revealed, I am shocked by your cold remarks of "no sympathy" for the senseless death of a child and the certain grief of his family. Soldiers should be trained to handle dangerous situations by various means other than shooting first and asking questions later.

It is easy to judge when distanced.

Yes, the soldiers should have thought more, but a fourteen-year-old should know better than to aim a toy gun at soldiers. That's just stupid. I'm sorry, but even the redneck kids that I know are smarter than that.

It IS terrible that it all happened, and I feel terrible for the family, but the fact of the matter is that the boy should have known better than to do something that stupid.

Distance has nothing to do with this. Being 12,9,7 is a "child" he was 14 and he should have be quite able to see the extreme conflict between the two countries. You just dont point weapons at people (toys or not) in that setting.

The soldiers were trained, in a hostile environment as such someone points a weapon at you or your comrades you fire. There is no time to think through every possible situation of maybe's and could be's, thats how you end up dead in a battle torn area.

A 14 year old is still a child.
In Palestine, a 14-year-old is a man, not a child. The boy was Palistinian.

This may be tragic, but the fact is that the kid is dead because he did something stupid. Sadly, due to the length of the conflict over there, everybody should know that you simply dont go pointing ANYTHING that looks like a weapon at ANYBODY, let alone soldiers.

very well said, TD. They've had younger people carry out shootings and suicide bombings over there before, so fill in the blank. If you were the soilder what would you have done having something that even resembles a weapon pointed at you? (especially over there in Israel)

I feel sorry for the soldier. He will have to live the rest of his life with shooting a kid that didn't point a real gun at him. I'm not passing judgement here, and although I can not imagine how he feels, I recon he is feeling pretty bad.

Mr U

Wow. I really didn't think of that. After everything was said and done, he found out that he should a kid for nothing. That must be pretty bad :(

In Palestine, a 14-year-old is a man, not a child. The boy was Palistinian.

I don't agree. Regardless of cultural perceptions, the mind of a 14 year old is NOT mature. This situation proves that. Calling him a man does not make him a man and children that do actually commit acts of war in the Middle East are mostly acting on behalf of someone else. It is easy to persuade an immature child to do something wrong or dangerous. They don't know any better. "Hey kid, here's some money if you deliver this package to the man inside this building." The kid does it. Ten minutes later the bomb inside the package does its work. Meanwhile, the kid takes his new found fortune home to his family not realizing the scope of what just happened. I have seen it all to often. Anyway, I think it is easy to judge when distanced. To not feel sorry for the boy, is cold in my opinion. Anyway, it is over and done with and it is just a shame.

I'm sorry, but any fourteen-year-old is conscious of his or her actions. "kids" that age are fully capable of judging right from wrong and it's not uncommon for fourteen-year-olds to be familiar with guns and the like. A kid may go take that package into the building, but he would have a good idea what he's doing. You may have seen innocents participate in similar things, but older people are victim to the same thing also.

I've personally known kids that are 13, 14, 15 who have openly killed. Anybody raised in a hostile area is familiar with guns and the consequences. I'm not from such a place, yet I know that my little brothers are fully aware of what guns can and will do if misused, and even my eight-year-old bro knows better than to point a gun at a cop.

Regardless of whose fault it is, an innocent has been killed. I think that while discussing this it's important not to lose sight of that. This boy wasn't just a casualty of war - he was a pointless, random death.
At age 14, I think that the average kid, while aware of his actions, hasn't really become a full rounded person yet, and the people I'd blame for this would be the idiotic society that sends kids to "taunt the soldiers", and more specifically this kid's parents for letting him be there with a toy gun (maybe even for getting him it in the first place).

Soldiers should be trained to handle dangerous situations by various means other than shooting first and asking questions later.

I disagree. I wouldn't expect a soldier to do anything differently in a scenario like that. You don't walk up to a gunman in the Palestinian territories and ask him what he intends to do with his gun. That's how soldiers get killed. The whole concept of sending kids to intimidate the already uptight soldiers is idiotic and immoral. They're only encouraged to do that in the hope that a tragedy like this occurs.

As Goethe once said, the soldier will most likely never forgive himself. There's no need for us to judge him too.

Listen.........it is not that I disagree with EVERYTHING y'all are saying. All of you are making good points. I'm just saying that these good points are not justifications for having "no sympathy" for the boy, as Helios stated. Yes a 14-yr old knows what he is doing, but let's try and remember some stupid things we all did at 14 and be thankful we lived through it. I did some stupid and dangerous things. Thankfully, I lived to learn from my mistakes. This boy didn't and to feel "no sympathy" is cold and wrong. If it were someone you knew, you might still think, "What a stupid thing to do", but would you honestly feel nothing simply because the logic of the situation did not add up? I don't think so. As I said, it is easy to judge when distanced. Just imagine if it were a kid that you knew and were close to. This is all I have been trying to say. Just my opinion. Before judging, try to put yourself in the other's shoes. It enhances perspective and understanding.

I understand what you're saying Anomolous and I agree for the most part, but I just wanted to stress that you should also to try to put yourself in the soldier's shoes. It's sad that the kid got killed but the soldier was not trigger-happy by any means. He did exactly what he should have done.

As I said, it is easy to judge when distanced.

Yeah, like you just did with me. You know nothing of me yet you want to say that if I have no sympathy I am cold and wrong. You want to say that if it was somebody I knew I would feel different. You dont know a fucking thing.

I did some stupid and dangerous things.

Ever point a gun, fake or real, at a soldier who was serving in an extremely hostile enviroment? Didnt think so.

Just imagine if it were a kid that you knew and were close to. This is all I have been trying to say. Just my opinion. Before judging, try to put yourself in the other's shoes. It enhances perspective and understanding.

Good fucking advice, try using it. I saw a lot of people die in Iraq, some of them I knew and some I didnt. I felt no sympathy for them regardless. We were in a setting where anybody get die at any moment, and we understood that. We had better shit to do than feel sorry for those who had fallen. They were honored and we moved on.

this kid was in a setting where anybody can die at any moment. He decided to do one of the most dumbass things that he could have. I see no need to feel even a bit sorry for somebody who dies because of their own stupidity. I feel bad for the soldier. Killing a person in battle is a hard thing to deal with, killing an unarmed boy....I couldnt imagine dealing with that.

Stupid people don't deserve sympathy? It's not the kid's fault that he lives in a dangerous environment. Most 14 year-olds I know are incredibly stupid. I know kids from the other side of the conflict who would go into a terrorist training camp with no second thoughts if their parents didn't restrain them. This kid does hold some responsibility for his death, but that doesn't change the fact that this was an innocent death and a tragedy. I agree with Anomolous that the knee-jerk reaction of "what an idiot", while possibly true, is disrespectful to the dead. The regrettability of this incident far overweighs its stupidity.

I'm just saying that these good points are not justifications for having "no sympathy" for the boy, as Helios stated. Yes a 14-yr old knows what he is doing, but let's try and remember some stupid things we all did at 14 and be thankful we lived through it.

Yeah I did stupid things at 14, but none of them involved pointing look-alike weapons at soldiers. Yeah its cold but its just being realistic.

This boy didn't and to feel "no sympathy" is cold and wrong. If it were someone you knew, you might still think, "What a stupid thing to do", but would you honestly feel nothing simply because the logic of the situation did not add up? I don't think so.

You dont know me, if it were somebody I knew I would have felt little difference. If anything mad at them for being so stupid.

Yeah I did stupid things at 14, but none of them involved pointing look-alike weapons at soldiers. Yeah its cold but its just being realistic.



You dont know me, if it were somebody I knew I would have felt little difference. If anything mad at them for being so stupid.


Hey, hey, hey......I'm not saying you are a bad person. I don't know you. Just thought the comment was cold. I see you agree but as you said you are just being realistic. That's cool. I was just judging the statement, not you. No hard feelings, o.k.?

Yeah, like you just did with me. You know nothing of me yet you want to say that if I have no sympathy I am cold and wrong. You want to say that if it was somebody I knew I would feel different. You dont know a fucking thing.



Ever point a gun, fake or real, at a soldier who was serving in an extremely hostile enviroment? Didnt think so.



Good fucking advice, try using it. I saw a lot of people die in Iraq, some of them I knew and some I didnt. I felt no sympathy for them regardless. We were in a setting where anybody get die at any moment, and we understood that. We had better shit to do than feel sorry for those who had fallen. They were honored and we moved on.

this kid was in a setting where anybody can die at any moment. He decided to do one of the most dumbass things that he could have. I see no need to feel even a bit sorry for somebody who dies because of their own stupidity. I feel bad for the soldier. Killing a person in battle is a hard thing to deal with, killing an unarmed boy....I couldnt imagine dealing with that.

Hey, take it easy. I haven't addressed anything to you so far, Don. But, after reading this last post I think it safe to say you are a bit harsh. You are confusing sympathy for pity. There's nothing wrong with feeling something when someone dies. What's the matter with you? Why are you so angry? We're just talking here.

Stupid people don't deserve sympathy? It's not the kid's fault that he lives in a dangerous environment. Most 14 year-olds I know are incredibly stupid. I know kids from the other side of the conflict who would go into a terrorist training camp with no second thoughts if their parents didn't restrain them. This kid does hold some responsibility for his death, but that doesn't change the fact that this was an innocent death and a tragedy. I agree with Anomolous that the knee-jerk reaction of "what an idiot", while possibly true, is disrespectful to the dead. The regrettability of this incident far overweighs its stupidity.


Exactly. Thank you.


Apologies for the triple post.

You are confusing sympathy for pity.

I am not confusing anything. Deffinition of sympathy from Websters: A feeling or an expression of pity or sorrow for the distress of another; compassion or commiseration.

What's the matter with you? Why are you so angry? We're just talking here.

I am not angry, I am practical. A thousand people die every day. They come from a thousand different cities, a thousand different situations and die for a thousand different reasons. There is nothing special about this kid other than his death got in the news.

Dark and nihilistic, yet quite on-target, TheDon. I commend you for finding such an excellent way to voice it.

On the regard of triple posting, please use the EDIT button. You can still quote posts by copying the content you want to quote and pasting it between tags (replacing the 0 with a o).

Mr U

Children are shot every couple of years in the United States for aiming toy guns at police officers. This is nothing new. This child should have employed even more caution, living in that part of the world.

I am not confusing anything. Deffinition of sympathy from Websters: A feeling or an expression of pity or sorrow for the distress of another; compassion or commiseration.



I am not angry, I am practical. A thousand people die every day. They come from a thousand different cities, a thousand different situations and die for a thousand different reasons. There is nothing special about this kid other than his death got in the news.


Nice. Real nice, Don.
And while some find your comments to be impressively profound, I view it as a cold, detatched, soul-less, and desensitized summation of life and death on a daily basis. I'm sure his family thought that he was special. But, I guess since you say there is nothing special about him then there musn't be. Don, you can be practical and still have a heart. I wasn't judging you before, but based on your new comments, I am now. Shame on you.
And you too Archangel............just because these types of occurrences aren't anything new doesn't mean that one should adopt such a cold outlook on what happened.
I'm not saying one should cry over everything, but to post an article like this and say "I have no sympathy for this kid" is just cold and heartless.
Everyone gets upset when I say, "It is easy to judge when distanced", but read your posts................I'm calling it like it is. This is what some of you are doing. What the hell happened to caring about others? Why the need to declaim, in so many words, that this kid got what he deserved? How would all of you feel if somebody came out and said things like this about a person close to you that got killed?
I don't know..........maybe it is just easy to say these things without consequences on the internet.....................I just don't understand.....

I'm not saying one should cry over everything, but to post an article like this and say "I have no sympathy for this kid" is just cold and heartless.
Everyone gets upset when I say, "It is easy to judge when distanced", but read your posts................I'm calling it like it is. This is what some of you are doing. What the hell happened to caring about others? Why the need to declaim, in so many words, that this kid got what he deserved? How would all of you feel if somebody came out and said things like this about a person close to you that got killed?


It depends since no one I knew has ever died from doing something as "stupid" as what this kid did. My responses have nothing to do with "not caring about others", but that still doesnt change the fact of what he did was extremly unwise.

I don't know..........maybe it is just easy to say these things without consequences on the internet.....................I just don't understand.....
The internet has nothing to do with this, some of us have actually seen people die. My words would be no different if I were talking face to face with you.

It depends since no one I knew has ever died from doing something as "stupid" as what this kid did. My responses have nothing to do with "not caring about others", but that still doesnt change the fact of what he did was extremly unwise.


The internet has nothing to do with this, some of us have actually seen people die. My words would be no different if I were talking face to face with you.

Fair enough. You're right. It doesn't change the fact that what he did was unwise. I know.

I don't think he deserved to die, neither do I believe that TheDon meant to say that.

People die everyday, and most of them do not deserve death. Saying someone is special because of the way he died is, nonsense. The whole point 'everyone is special' is nonsense. Everyone is different, yes, and it is regrettable that another specimen of the human species has died a pointless death. It is by far not the first and by far not the last.

Mr U

I don't think he deserved to die, neither do I believe that TheDon meant to say that.

People die everyday, and most of them do not deserve death. Saying someone is special because of the way he died is, nonsense. The whole point 'everyone is special' is nonsense. Everyone is different, yes, and it is regrettable that another specimen of the human species has died a pointless death. It is by far not the first and by far not the last.

Mr U

I see. I agree. I guess I didn't really mean that he should be regarded as special by us. I'm not one to feel that everyone is special. I just wouldn't go to the other side of the spectrum and say that someone isn't special just because I don't know them. I don't mean that everyone here should be "bleeding hearts" about mankind. I just don't see the need for the distanced contempt. But that's cool............I see where everyone is coming from. I may be overreactive here.