Swastika Might Get Banned

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Royal_Family

By CONSTANT BRAND, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union (news - web sites) may consider banning Nazi symbols in its 25 member nations after Britain's Prince Harry wore a swastika armband to a costume party, the bloc's top justice official said Monday.

Franco Frattini, the EU's justice and home affairs commissioner, said he was open to discussing the issue at a Jan. 27 meeting of EU justice ministers.


"It may be worth looking into the possibility of a total ban, a Europe-wide ban," his spokesman, Friso Roscam Abbing, told reporters Monday. "Commissioner Frattini shares the general feeling of opprobrium on the use of the swastika and other Nazi symbols."


The call came after several German conservatives, socialists and liberal democrats in the European Parliament urged a European ban following a scandal last week over photos published worldwide of Harry, third in line to the British throne, wearing the Nazi outfit.


German Socialist Helmut Kuhne called Harry a "royal idiot" for not knowing the consequences and World War II history linked to the Nazi swastika.


Germany already bans such symbols.


But British Liberal Democrat Chris Davies questioned the need to ban the swastika.


"I understand how the burden of history weighs upon my German colleagues' view," he said. "However, banning symbols cannot ban evil and risks playing into the hands of those who would seek to subvert the very liberties we most champion."


Roscam Abbing said Frattini would urge EU ministers to use the swastika incident to push for agreement on EU-wide rules to combat racism, fascism and anti-Semitism.


A proposal was introduced two years ago but discussions have failed to make headway. Roscam Abbing said officials would take care not to violate freedom of expression in devising such a ban.


Frattini's decision to look into an EU-wide ban could further embarrass Queen Elizabeth II (news - web sites), who is to lead British

I dont really see the need for a ban. Everyone knows what the symbol is and what it stands/stood for. If somebody wants to be an ass and go around wearing it then that person just makes themselves a target.

I didn't even know that it isn't banned in UK and US. I support a worldwide ban, I'm sick of seeing those symbols.

I don't really attach that much meaning to symbols, but apparantely there are a whole lot of people who do. Swastikas offend people, and are representative of something that has no redeeming value. If it makes sense, I don't see any reason it shouldn't be banned.

Prince Harry - What a prick. Turning up to party dressed as a Nazi, just in time for the WW2 aniversary.

He was acting like a tactless little child. Even William apparently shot him daggers when he saw him, then almost killed him when one of Harry's good mates came dressed as the queen and said when called on stage: It's like being asked to have sex with the queen, while it's still an honor, who the hell would? Or something to that effect. Then Harry burst into laughter.

Naughty boy Harry, stop bogarting the spliff for the eyes of the world are apon you.

I don't think it should even be banned in Germany. Let alone a worldwide ban. Granted, Germans have to live with Hitler's crap for so long, but banning would lead to underground shit, that already probably takes place in the countries that have banned the symbol.

I don't understand why there are so many people annoyed by it today, when we could forget what it means, and go back to what it originally stood for.

Here's a brief history thing I found:
This postcard, copyright 1907 by E. Phillips, a U.S. card publisher, speaks for the universally high regard in which the swastika was held as a good luck token before use by the Nazis corrupted its meaning.

http://www.luckymojo.com/swastika.gif

The text on the card back reads:


GOOD LUCK EMBLEM
"The Swastika" is the oldest cross and emblem in the world. It forms a combination of four "L's" standing for Luck, Light, Love and Life. It has been found in ancient Rome, excavations in Grecian cities, on Buddhist idols, on Chinese coins dated 315 B.C., and our own Southwest Indians use it as an amulet.

It is claimed that the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers of Mexico, Central America consider "The Swastika" a charm to drive away evil and bring good luck, long life and prosperity to the possessor.


It should be noted that this text is not entirely accurate: The Mound Builders inhabited the Ohio River Valley and the Cliff Dwellers lived in the Southwestern United States; however, both did use the swastika, as did the Mayas of Mexico. Furthermore, although the swastika may look like four "L's" to one who uses the Roman alphabet, in Greek it forms four Gammas ("G's"), in Hebrew it can be seen as four Daleths ("D's"), and among the non-literate people of North America, it corresponded to no letters at all. Thus the ascription of Luck, Light, Love, and Life to the amulet is simply an English mnemonic, although it is prettily reinforced on this card by images of a horseshoe (luck), the rising Sun (light), twin hearts (love), and Earth (life). Finally, not mentioned in the text is the swastika's use as the specific emblem of Ganesha, the Hindu god of good luck, who is also represented as an elephant.

At left is a very nice American-made beaded item from the 1920s that bears the initials J.B.Y. and a black swastika on a white background. It is a simple strap-woven seed-bead piece of the type often made for a merit badge by Girl and Boy Scouts, or, as in this case, woven on a "while you wait" basis by American Indians for tourists at places like the Fred Harvey hotel chain in Arizona and New Mexico. It was found in an estate collection of Native American bead-work that had been put away and wrapped in 1929-dated newspapers. The twisted cotton threads terminate in a brass pin for hanging.

It's sad that we have to start banning symbols that one man took for his selfish reasons because he was a deranged crackhead.

Banning it is over the top I think, lets face it, if you want to ban one, then you have to ban them all, as such, lets ban The Sound of Music and every history book in publication today.
What Harry did was just stupid, and he's getting flack from it from all members of his family, but lets face it, he's also taken drugs and is almost the wart on the Windsor family tree at the moment.

a royal idiot wearing a swastika is one thing but German exchange students getting permanantly insulted as Nazis is another thing. In no other country in Europe, the media is so obsessed to associate todays Germany with the Nazis even after 60 years. And in no other country are so many people who are crazy about that.

And that's sad.

the whole thing is sad, simply sad. The number of kids (and other white trash) running around with swastikas sewn onto their jackets, tattooed on their bums, or drawn onto their notebooks is downright depressing. It's like they don't even realize fully what they're saying- they just know it's a symbol that pisses people off, so it's another form of rebellion to many. There's so many ignorant rednecks out there (believe me, I live with an assload of them). I don't even understand how someone can be that stupid at times! But the prince himself? That's just downright stupid. Shame on him; he should know better.

hmm, maybe he's just like my buddies, and can also blame it on inbreeding. Nah.

I was under the impression the origional swastika was a jewish sign for good luck and prosperity and that is why Hitler took it and defiled it. Today it is only associated with violence and racist hatred. I am for banning it world wide. The saddest part of this whole thing is, it's more than likely going to happen because some royal fool wore it on his arm. Should have been done shortly after WWII.

The Swastika stood symbol for the Nazi regime, right? Had Adolf Hitler not murdered countless jews, homosexuals, cripples, and others, he would have been seen as one of the best statesmen. Ever.

Will I ever defend the murder of anyone? No! What I am getting tired of, however, is the slander of Adolf Hitler. Yes, he did some things, but he did not do them because he was a monster. Adolf Hitler was a model citizen, a man who had fought for his country, and who had vision. He was not some inhumane monster as he has portrayed way too often. I very much appreciated 'Der Untergang' for this. It showed a side to Hitler that had been suppressed for so long.

I want my children to learn that there is no true good and evil, and that neither Bush, neither Hitler was evil. Both killed for their ideals, for what they believed was good, and for what they believed was good for their country.

Recently, a movie was made about Alexander. Alexander seems to be made a hero. This man slaughtered, butchered, countless civilians to impress other cities in his opposition to seize fighting and surrender their city to them.

Let it be very clear that I do not support the extermination of jews, or any other minorities, and that I find it incredibly regrettable that this happened. However, I believe it to be cowardice and just to portray Hitler and his accomplices as monsters. They were all too human, and they all fought for what they believed to be right.

Should the Swastika be banned? No! I have had a conversation with Hitman about the use of the word 'nigger'. Symbolism is made by the population. We decide what value we place on symbols and words. We can give the Swastika a beautiful meaning once more.
The same goes for 'Mein Kampf'. The book might be boring, but it is a rare historical piece of evidence.

Now, as a disclaimer, I'm do not follow or encourage Nazi or Neo-Nazi ideals. I'm simply for keeping history unpoluted and uncolored. Honestly, if the Indians had repelled the Americans, and had writted history, how would you think the Americans would have been portrayed?

Mr U

You forgot to mention one other thing, Hitler made the trains run on time. The main point that keeps coming up, and was beat to death by HU, is that the negative connotation is there simply because people keep putting it there. This is one of the reasons I despise people in general. All you have to do is stop linking it to a symbol of the Nazi death machine and return it to what it used to be. But nooooo....we cant do that. That would, in some freaking way I cant imagine, minimalize the millions (inflated number) of juden that were killed. Too freaking bad. Durring the life of the Golden Horde the Khans killed 30 million chinese. Nobody seems to have a problem with modern mongol heritage or the fact that they still celebrated what the Khans did. People need to stop being such sniveling little pussies about everything. Yes, the nazi regime did some seriously bad stuff. Yes these things should be remembered. But at some point you have to accept it as history and move on.

I think the main reason it's not treated as history yet is because many of the survivors are still alive. It's also important to remember how recent it was in order to understand how easily it can happen again, and in that respect I agree that the subject has been overly tabooed. Instead of focusing on the lack of questioning and the "screw in a system" mentality, the leaders and their people have been demonized. This isn't about the inhumanity of the German people. It's about the inhumanity of certain human characteristics.

As for the Swastika, yes it was used in the past as a symbol for good things, but has become, due to Hitler and whether we like it or not, a symbol for Nazi ideals. If we see a swastika tattooed to a man's chest then it's much more likely that its connotation is the negative one than that is the positive one.
Its function as the Nazi symbol has had a much stronger meaning for human history than its original (was it buddhist?) and now negligible one. I doubt it can be returned to its original meaning any time soon. It's been stained now, and functions as a symbol for the demonized version of the Nazis, if that makes sense. Today it expresses evil and disrespect towards the victims of the holocaust, and is something we should abhor. Its previous positive meaning just doesn''t matter as much in the end.

Come on! This may sound childish but if if someone was chiefly responsible for the slaughter of 30 milion (minimum) innocents (including my Grandparents I might add) he just might have some issues if he believes that is the right thing to do.

Disclaimer: I have nothing against German (or even Austrian - seeing as Hitler was) people.

Yes, he was a complete bloody nutter with only one testical and a mother complex. He would often beat his women before he bed them, and his hommies were a bunch of sadistic transvestites and coke sniffers who liked to perform experiments on human beings without general anestisia. Apart from that, I hear he was a bright person.

ah, Mengele, now that was one messed up man....

I agree with you guys who are stating that Hitler wasn't the only one to kill many innocents. The thing is, so many are running around now trying to glorify the symbol he chose to take. Even if the Swastika was created with good intentions, it became corrputed. Saying that the Swastika isn't that bad is just like people who say that Halloween isn't good. Look at how that holiday was started. Over time, it evolved and became a fun holiday, but it still has the terrible past. Should we look at the origins of symbols, or what they've become?

Honey, I know where you are coming from, however anyone with anything that has that symbol on their person is instantly labeled as a racsist bastard, even if they are wearing it because of what it origionally stood for. Good luck, light, love and life. In hindsight, a banning of it would not do any good, for it would make it even more infamous and popular among sadists.

Who cares what the sadists do? Even if its followers keep following it illegally it will be clear that it is not something that society accepts. It'd be a symbolic banning of a symbol :p

Right, its symbolic. There is no real meaning or purpose to this. The people that currently are of the mind to go walking around with a swastika are probably not going to be too bothered by this. Perhaps the EU should focus a bit of time and attention on matters that would actaully have some impact on the people living there.