The Man over God

When i was around 10 years old, i was watching some obscure movie/TV awards show with my mom. She made many comments, apparently loving the "wittiscisms" and "sincerity" of the actor's speeches. Only one thing stuck in my mind "I'd like to thank, etc. etc. etc., and most of all, i'd like to thank God for my talent and ability." I had seen this many times previously already: Basketball players, Football players, other actors, musicians, artists, any sort of accomplished person. I questioned it, and was promptly informed that i shouldn't be "selfish and arrogant," and that "real great people are great because of humility."

You're already thinking "Fuck, another religion thread." Well, all i want is for someone to explain to me why it's immoral to praise yourself for your hard work, and somehow noble to accredit your great achievements to some omniescent force that you've never seen or felt. And don't give me that spiritual "i've felt him" crap. He wasn't there helping that young boy take shot after shot for years and years just so he could play professional basketball. He wasn't "being felt" when that musician wrote note after note, testing song after song, working his craft to perfection. THEY DID IT THEMSELVES. They worked hard for their "Talent." They are what they are because of commitment and dedication, all coming straight from the self, from the strength of their own wills. The strength of the human being is incomparable to any other strength is the world. It has conquered everything that has stood in this world, for better or for worse. How can we demean ourselves by subjecting our value to comparison to fucking sheep?

Yeah, that's one major reason I came to dislike flambouyant theist beliefs. Whenever you do something like compete in the olympics, you're obligated as a theist to surrender credit for your success to some intangible performance-enhancing God (but, of course, your failures are your own).

It's anti-human.

You just don't understand it, Helios.
They did work God, but without Him, where would they be?
NOWHERE.
He gave them everything they had. Sure, part of the credit is theirs, because they chose to work so hard, but they couldn't have worked so hard had it not been for God.
Don't give me that selfish crap about, "They should be proud! They did it!" They did, but without God they couldn't have done it.
Remember, pride goes before destruction, and an arrogant spirit before a fall.
Also, pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

Free Your Minds.

-neoizcool

I'm not anti-God, but who is to say that people can do great things without the aid or belief of God?
Beliefs work both ways you know.
You can't state that 'God gives strength' as if that is anything more than an opinion.

My personal beliefs about 'God' are so broad and undecided, that I'm just left with an open mind. But I just can't stand the anti-athiest attitude.
I wish more people could respect athiests' beliefs as much as most athiests respect theists' beliefs.

Quote: "Also, pride is one of the seven deadly sins."

So everybody should now conform to an individual's beliefs as if they have some kind of importance? I don't think that's quite the way it works. Right and wrong is relative.


Hmm... having read over my post, I didn't mean to sound snipey. Sorry if it came across that way. :p

Qwertez, the belief that right and wrong are relative is an opinion, and not at all a fact. When I said pride was one of the seven deadly sins, I meant the Bible says it is.
Also, it's not just an individual's belief. It's two billion people's belief.
You say most atheist's respect theists' belief. I don't call saying, "Well, what you believe is right is right for you, but you have no right to say it is for all people."
I do. I believe that God is responsible for all the talents you have. He created you, and gave them to you.

Free Your Minds.

-neoizcool

I think the general idea is that God gives some people good abilities to start with - whether it's a high IQ, strong body, creative mind, or whatever, and these people are thanking him for giving them a good place to start from.

Also, when believers go through difficult times, they believe it is God that helps them out, and therefore they thank him for giving them the strength to persevere.

None of this is to say effort didn't have anything to do with the success, but for a believer, the effort pales in comparison to the help given. Besides, saying in your acceptance speech "I want to thank myself for being so wonderful and amazing" kind of betrays the purpose. Your effort is already being acknowledged by the fact that you're awarded whatever you're awarded. The speeches are just to thank people.

I'm not seeing where this is comparing us to sheep.

Ah, not to be lulled into a God discussion (which I feel is severely out of point), but I think when folks credit God or something like that they just want to acknowledge the things that helped them along. Sure in the end we know folks who win stuff win it by themselves, but they can never have gotten along completely alone. No man is an island. Now I'll even go so far as to say that thanking a God is a politically smart move: nobody to feel left out by it; or jealous, or overly proud. I guess its one thing that unites people of faith: to put their faith on something that's higher above everyone. A very admirable effect.
Also, the people who hear someone talking about thanks don't really want to hear him talk about himself. Imagine: how's he going to do it? 'I'm good, aren't I?' or 'Yeah, you chose the best, guys. Thanks.' At the very least, it'll make for a pretty short speech. Notice also that the best 'thanks' have the audience included in the list. That's the thing about showbiz: the folks listening and seeing you want to feel significant too. Every other guy who's worked with you will want to at least know they've been remembered, and in my opinion they deserve at least that chance in the spotlight with you.

Thanking God is a politically smart move, that's why so many people are hypocrites when they're in front of big crowd's thanking God, but don't really believe in him. The majority of people who thank Him, though, thank him not for politically correct reasons, but just for being thankful because they love Him and what he's done. What do you mean, Mac, a God discussion is severely out of point?
And this is comparing us to sheep, FYM, because we are God's sheep.

Free Your Minds.

-neoizcool

pride is one of the seven deadly sins.


This is why i will never subscribe to religion (heh, makes it sound like Playboy or Boy's Life). I think pride is a good thing which motivates us to do better next time. I think it's silly to deny any involvement in what you accomplished. If you want to thank someone (God) for helping you, fine. As long as you believe that the person actually helped you. If you don't believe in god, don't thank him. I think in this world, most people who thank god (exluding presidents) really mean it. It's just no longer hip to be religious and thus, celebrities have no reason to fake religion.

Indeed it is out of point, NIC. To me this discussion didn't seem to have been created to focus on why a winner thanks God, but more like why a winner is expected to thank everything and everyone but himself. At least, I had that impression.
And while it may be politically sound, the action; and religion itself, need not be political. How many winners really didn't have God in their hearts as they thanked him? It may be a convenient thing to do, but it still is one that can be heartfelt. Hacker Dude has a point.

alright, i believe this conversation goes deep. God is whom some believe to be the reason they are alive, hense they owe everything to Him, because they are alive and they accomplished some amazing things. here is where it gets tricky though, if someone were to save another person from harm or even death, would the person being saved thank the protector or God for creating that person to protect you. what is the solution? thank the protector, or God? i say, thank God, for he has calculated every single event that has come down to having that protector, saving you.
now there can be numerous situations, similiar to that. but that is the only example i can think of. like i said God is the answer to many questions, and the question to many answers.

I think I understand why some people thank God. The belief in him alone can motivate many people and if you have two people - a believer and a none believer, say trying to survive in a cold isolated spot, it is possible that the belief in God can in fact give this person strength and help them to survive. Whereas the other person could give up to the cold and not make it through.

Like a sort of placebo effect. So God can help people, whether he is real or not. I say 'he' as though I am implying a personified being. God may be in many forms, but the idea of him alone can be beneficial. Myself, I'm unsure...