More Proof for Matrix in a Matrix

Although (as of now) I've chosen to remain neutral on the subject, I just stumbled upon something I believe would help the case of the nested Matrix concept.

When the commanders sat down to talk about the battle at the choke point, they said that someone triggered the EMP early, and it instantly knocked out all five ships (or at least the power to all five ships). We know this was Bane, because who else would have a motive to do it? Then, they said it wasn't a battle at all - it was a slaughter. They asked something about if anyone knew what happened, and one commander mentioned that someone did. That when one of the ships passed over, they found one, and only one survivor: Bane. And everyone knows Smith was inside Bane.

Which leaves us with a question: Why, when the sentinels passed over, did they only leave Bane, and killed every other (potential) survivor?

Answer: Assuming there's a Matrix in a Matrix, the sentinels can detect Smith is within Bane, and therefore pass over him because he has ties to the machines; he is their ally. This is basically the only explanation for why they only let Bane (Smith) survive.

One may ask, "Maybe he fell and they just couldn't find him?" First of all, if he fell, then chances are other members of his crew would have fallen too, and if Bane could survive it, why couldn't they? Whatever the situation, the sentinels would have detected them and chased after them. We have proof the sentinels are search-and-destroy because they did this to Neo, Trinity, Morpheus and Link when they exited the Nebuchadnezzer. And they could have easily hidden in the ruins, because it appeared as though there were numerous spots to hide. However, the sentinels moved without hesitation directly towards them. This means they KNEW where everyone was.
Which would mean that they would know exactly where every last survivor of the "battle" was and had the ability to destroy them. Except for Bane.


In a nutshell: There is a Matrix in a Matrix because the sentinels would have had to have known Smith was inside Bane in order to ignore Bane and have him survive at the "battle."

Scratch that neutral idea. I seem to have convinced myself, lol :cool:

Originally posted by Araxis
In a nutshell: There is a Matrix in a Matrix because the sentinels would have had to have known Smith was inside Bane in order to ignore Bane and have him survive at the "battle."

I have to disagree. I have posted this in another thread but the summary is:

Smith is an outcast. Whether it is in the Matrix or outside, there is no reason the source/matrix would want him alive. He has become a rogue program, a virus, an outcast, etc.

There is a logical explanation for why Smith was not harmed. After all, Smith and Neo have increasing similarities and in the end of Reloaded Smith and Neo are suffering the same symptoms.

Thus, it is not unreasonable to assume Smith survived in the very same way as Neo (holding up his hand to stop the sentinels), which resulted in a coma.

Before people start ranting about an EMP... lets remember that this is an Electro-Magnetic-Pulse. This kind of field has no impact on flesh and blood, and regardless of how 'machine like' Neo & Smith's minds are, they are in mortal bodies. Not to mention Neo would have fallen victim to the EMP used in the Matrix #1 (his body has not physically changed).

My theory? Neo and Smith are both in Limbo. They are showing the same symptoms as when a person is hard-wired into the Matrix sitting in their broadcast chairs. Thus, if they have the ability to control the matrix externally (that doesn't make Neo a cyborg!), they would have been able to disable the sentinels, but at the cost of being unconcious in the *real world!!!*.

We will have to wait until the third film for the real answer, as the debates are getting out of control... suffice to say however that I don't believe in the EMP, a second matrix, or that the sentinels deliberately spared Smith.

*gets off soap box*

There is a logical explanation for why Smith was not harmed. After all, Smith and Neo have increasing similarities and in the end of Reloaded Smith and Neo are suffering the same symptoms.

Thus, it is not unreasonable to assume Smith survived in the very same way as Neo (holding up his hand to stop the sentinels), which resulted in a coma.

Before people start ranting about an EMP... lets remember that this is an Electro-Magnetic-Pulse. This kind of field has no impact on flesh and blood, and regardless of how 'machine like' Neo & Smith's minds are, they are in mortal bodies. Not to mention Neo would have fallen victim to the EMP used in the Matrix #1 (his body has not physically changed).

I never said Bane survived because he created an EMP. I said he survived because Smith was inside him. Brings me to my next point...

Smith is an outcast. Whether it is in the Matrix or outside, there is no reason the source/matrix would want him alive. He has become a rogue program, a virus, an outcast, etc.

I'm not sure whether or not the Architect/Matrix is aware that he is a virus yet. And I don't believe the sentinels can tell the difference between a rogue program or a regular program.

Originally posted by murray
I have to disagree. I have posted this in another thread but the summary is:

Smith is an outcast. Whether it is in the Matrix or outside, there is no reason the source/matrix would want him alive. He has become a rogue program, a virus, an outcast, etc.

There is a logical explanation for why Smith was not harmed. After all, Smith and Neo have increasing similarities and in the end of Reloaded Smith and Neo are suffering the same symptoms.

Thus, it is not unreasonable to assume Smith survived in the very same way as Neo (holding up his hand to stop the sentinels), which resulted in a coma.

Before people start ranting about an EMP... lets remember that this is an Electro-Magnetic-Pulse. This kind of field has no impact on flesh and blood, and regardless of how 'machine like' Neo & Smith's minds are, they are in mortal bodies. Not to mention Neo would have fallen victim to the EMP used in the Matrix #1 (his body has not physically changed).

My theory? Neo and Smith are both in Limbo. They are showing the same symptoms as when a person is hard-wired into the Matrix sitting in their broadcast chairs. Thus, if they have the ability to control the matrix externally (that doesn't make Neo a cyborg!), they would have been able to disable the sentinels, but at the cost of being unconcious in the *real world!!!*.

We will have to wait until the third film for the real answer, as the debates are getting out of control... suffice to say however that I don't believe in the EMP, a second matrix, or that the sentinels deliberately spared Smith.

*gets off soap box*



enough said, I couldn't have worded it better myself.

I also have to disagree with this Matrix in a Matrix theory.

I don't believe that the Sentinels somehow "knew" to leave Bane alone. I think they tried to kill Bane. Perhaps Bane used some power, similar to what Neo did in the end, to fend off a few of them. Then he fainted, and the Sentinels presumed he was dead. Who knows.

But I don't think that just because Bane survived, that it stands as proof of a "second Matrix".

Everyone seems to think that because Neo can stop bullets in the Matrix, then the fact that he stops Sentinels must mean that the "real world" is also a Matrix. That seems like such an elementary explanation. And it goes against the whole storyline, because then it makes almost everything that has happened thus far irrevelant.

If there was a second Matrix, then the whole story would be right back where we started. And all the progress that has been made, both story and charactrer development, is lost.

It's just kind of a lame twist. I think Zion exists in the real world and the reason Bane survived and Neo could stop Sentinels has something to do with their interaction with each other.

Although I do agree that it would be a lame twist... this theory seems logical to me.

"I don't believe that the Sentinels somehow "knew" to leave Bane alone. I think they tried to kill Bane. Perhaps Bane used some power, similar to what Neo did in the end, to fend off a few of them. Then he fainted, and the Sentinels presumed he was dead. Who knows. "

Well, I don't know how he could use similar powers to fend off 250,000 sentinels, if he's just going to faint after 5 seconds ;)

But at the same time, that brings up another point: How DID he faint?

I'm back to neutral on this one. You guys butchered my attempt at proving my idea. :p

Oh well...back to the drawing board. :cool:

Originally posted by Lymetyme
Everyone seems to think that because Neo can stop bullets in the Matrix, then the fact that he stops Sentinels must mean that the "real world" is also a Matrix


Put it this way: This is a movie for entertainment, and what most people find cool is Neo fighting bad guys with his superpowers in the matrix.

I theorise that Neo and Smith/Bane's physical bodies in Zion (the real world) can now interface with the Matrix without being plugged in. If Zion was indeed a Matrix program aswell, and had rules to be bent/broken, then (since Smith is in Bane's body) the next movie would be set in Zion and there'd be no point in entering the original matrix at all.

However, in the Revolution preview, you can clearly see Neo and Smith are back in the original matrix, standing on a road in the rain, about to fight. There are hundreds of Smiths standing around. Again, if Neo and Bane/Smith have realised that Zion is just another software program, then they'd fight it out there.

Honestly, its a science fiction film. I can't believe how much fuss has been caused by a single scene of Neo stopping a Sentinel. There are hundreds of other explanations, lets not think of the cliche's!.