What is real?... are we real?

;) The most important question isn´t are we real, and even what is the matrix... is: what we can do with this reallity... magic? psichycs? menthalism?... may be we can fly... I dont know... just think one second... we arent in the matrix... but... the cientist discover a brain power... "the electrical pulses of the brain can make elevate a pensil if that person focus in"...I dont know... im just trying to say: the phisycs of Gallileo, Newton, Einstein... they have teories... but... with the time some of these lost validate.. may be... all we think isn´t right... we cant know everything...
Think in this... and forgibe me mi english...
bye

GT

you do bring up a few good points. I feel that we are real but all the things around us isn't. Of course i could be wrong. :)

This is not real. I know. Well, not really, but just go onto www.thematrix.com and search for Philosophy and the Matrix and click on "Brain In A Vat Skepticizm" and read it. It makes sense.

Well, if you're asking what we can prove, i can only prove that you exist. There's no way to prove anyone else exists or anything else. I think, therefore, I am. I'm not entirely sure what to believe about life, but i do tend tword a theory of the world around us being fake. Or at least, not all there is. More out of a hope that life isn't this pointless than actuall proof.

Its hard to tell whats real and whats not. I mean, right now I'm a teenager and if you recall the Animatrix short "Kid's story" they say "he doubted reality. lots of kids his age are."
Its hard for me to tell whats real and whats not because of lots of chemical imbalances and hormone changes etc....but the real question is, will I still doubt reality when I'm even older? Like say, Neo's age? (late 20's to 30's?)
As for the brain in a vat theory, its possible...I read that essay once.
To tell the truth, I think there IS something wrong with the world. It might not be the matrix, it could be bigger than that or smaller. All I know is that its there. Like a splinter in my mind. Driving me mad. ;)

I have to side with Mr. Hacker Dude over here when using that infamous quote "I think; therefore I am." but another way of understanding that quote is with this one, "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all." Sure this is a pretty nihilistic idea, but I fall into the gap between the two quotes, sort of like that one girl from "Matriculated" in "The Animatrix" when she says, "No, just the my mind exists. I don't know about the rest." Don't get me wrong here, I have a girlfriend and I love her very much, but how can I know for certain that she is real, and not just an electrical signal interpreted by my brain while I'm nothing more than a Blue Pill on the opposite end of the power plant from my girlfriend, the sad thing is, there is no way to be certain :eek:

I for one believe that anything is possible. I believe that we could fly and do other things. I do believe that this is possible but does mankind have the time and patience to create and harness this power. That i dont belive in. It is just like putting trust in mankind, you cant. Because our egotistical, selfcentered minds will be our down fall. But are there a few people put there who have harnessed this power, yes. That i believe.

Here is a short t-file written in '89 that deals a bit with this issue.

Consider the proposition of knowledge. When we experience an event we generally unquestionably accept it as a truth -- that is to say, we don't question that it happened. For example, when I'm French kissing a girl I feel that hot wet tongue and I don't doubt the experience. When I'm sitting here, reading this text file, I don't doubt that I'm doing so; I see the glowing characters on the screen and it's an experience I don't doubt is occurring. But there's another experience I didn't doubt either....

I was lying on my bed, staring at the ceiling in the darkness of my room. Suddenly, still prone, I was pulled from my bed -- against my will – and carted out through my window into the darkness of the night. I was suspended in air for a moment, and I distinctly remember thinking, "No! I don't want to go!" And no sooner had I completed that thought than I was being sucked through a tornado filled with autumn leaves. There was a strong wind and I could smell and feel the stiff crunchy leaves and they collided against my body.

I landed in a long tiled hallway. Immediately I acknowledged the array of doors and directly made my way towards a large rubber orange door. Out stepped my girl -- I didn't meet her face, but her stomach was hard and flat. She had long lean legs and I was happy to see her again! We made our way towards the end of the hall and out into the afternoon sunlight.

Walking along the red brick path, we managed to cut through the throng of sweater-clad upperclassmen. Doug yelled out to me as we passed him – they were all going somewhere; I don't remember where or why, but we certainly weren't going to join them. I returned Doug's greeting with, "...you trendy dork!" Shock spread across his face as we made our way past him.

It was then that I realized that Richard was there. Richard's face turned red and he leaned forward and retorted a challenge towards me. At first I hesitated, but then I realized he was in a wheelchair so I quickly gave him a shove that sent him tumbling into the soft green lawn. Richard, sprawled helplessly in the grass, sent his horse after us.

My girl and I, half running, managed to get the sliding glass door open and charged into the kitchen of the house. There was a large bleeding sirloin on the breadboard and suddenly I could taste it; it was raw and salty. The horse was right behind us now. Just as we finished sprinting through the kitchen and into the hallway I heard the horse's hooves on the kitchen tile.

We turned into the master bedroom. Plaster littered the green carpet -- no one had been in this house in ages and I pondered for a moment about my ex-wife. The horse was right behind us now. There was no here to run. I stopped short of the shower stall.

Suddenly I woke up.

Without hesitation I passed off my entire experience as a dream. Yet, while I was dreaming I utilized every sensory experience to test the reality of my situation and yet my sensory experience was merely reportive; it didn't attribute my experiences to fact or fiction, instead it just reported to me what was happening.

I saw the color of the green carpet. I felt the door and determined it was made of rubber. I smelled the crunchy autumn leaves. I heard the horse's hooves on the kitchen tile. I could taste the raw salty sirloin. I even had the memory of my "ex-wife", and I've never been married -- I couldn't even trust my own memories as being true!

My own experience was so deceiving and yet I am forced to attribute everything I know to experience; sensory experience. It's as if I'm a container moving through life and my senses report back to me what is happening.

What do my senses tell me? "He's lecturing about volcanism." "Move your hand, Dork -- That burner is hot!" "She's soft AND warm!" "It smells like rain."

Everything I know about -- or think I know about -- I know because I've experienced. There is nothing by which I know that I haven't experienced. (With this in mind, we don't truly "know" that the earth is spherical --however, based upon our other experiences it seems rational to believe – but that starts to probe beyond the limits of this file.)

Everything I've experienced I've experienced through at least one of my senses; vision, hearing, touch, taste, or smell. My senses are the interpreters of reality.

But, as demonstrated by my dream, my senses deceive me. Even my memories deceive me. By all tests that dream appeared to be reality. So how do I even know that I'm here, sitting in front of the computer, reading this text file?

The simple fact is I don't know.

Consider this; if you have a tape recorder and sometimes you put a tape in and press play and it "eats" the tape and other times you put a tape in and it merely plays it, then you tend to not trust that tape recorder with your tapes.

If my senses sometimes report things that are real and they sometimes don't, it's not entirely unreasonable to doubt my sensory input as being valid.

In fact, what is your brain and how does it interact with your sensory input? All your senses transmit their information to your brain through the central nervous system and what is the central nervous system?

Wouldn't it be interesting if we could learn more about how the brain works? If we could do that, perhaps we could learn more about reality and how to recognize it when we're experiencing it.

I remember (or do I?) reading a passage from a psychology book where scientists were experimenting with cats. By electrically stimulating certain parts of the brain they could cause the cat to experience different sensations.

For example, by stimulating one area of the brain the cat would have the sensation of extraordinary hunger and would continue to eat as long as that area of its brain was being artificially stimulated. Other strange reactions occurred; they would stimulate other areas of its brain and the cat might suddenly hiss and raise its back -- who knows what it was really experiencing at that moment? Perhaps a dog? Another cat? Was it just terror?

In fact, what makes us so certain of our own reality? Maybe it's really one thousand years into the future and I'm a scientist. You're just a brain in vat; you have no body. I'm merely electrically stimulating your brain to make you think you have a body that's having all sorts of "ordinary experiences" that would occur one thousand years ago.

I thought it would be interesting to inform you about reality and see if you reject or accept it. You didn't really read this file; I simply stimulated your brain so you would think you're having the experience of reading it.

There is no need to doubt my claims. If you have no body -- and thus lack appendages -- it's impossible for you to kill yourself. After all, how can a brain in a vat commit suicide?

- Tequila Willy

The path in front is one guided by the powers of yourself. The ideas of religions, gods, etc. do not exist. For the path one takes in life depends upon the thoughts of the one. Your destiny is only revealed to you once you have forseen the path. What happens in our corporeal worlds is not without consequences, although it is up to you to determine what is good or bad, real or not.

urm yeah i have to agree with sicroendo8 i think we r real and certain things we see are copies of things in the real world e.g computers they had those in the real world tho the one in front of you is not real computers do exist if that makes sence nothing we see is real but some of it exists
also just a question the site wont let me post a new thread can any1 help me...thanx

That was an interesting thing to read, TheDon. I'm writing an essay for English class right now, and my thesis (my main statement that Im trying to prove, for you guys who might not know) is "The sky is not blue."
While the essay itself wont get too serious, I will be using the brain-in-a-vat theory as a reference. I think that maybe it could be true. Though a person doesnt like the idea of just being a brain in a vat, people also don't like the idea of death but it still happens. Could it be that maybe theres only one person alive and all the rest of us are programs created for the sole purpose of making them believe in the false world? Who knows.
This ends another exciting episode of "Deep Thoughts with The_Wanderer".

;) The most important question isn´t are we real, and even what is the matrix... is: what we can do with this reallity... magic? psichycs? menthalism?... may be we can fly... I dont know... just think one second... we arent in the matrix... but... the cientist discover a brain power... "the electrical pulses of the brain can make elevate a pensil if that person focus in"...I dont know... im just trying to say: the phisycs of Gallileo, Newton, Einstein... they have teories... but... with the time some of these lost validate.. may be... all we think isn´t right... we cant know everything...
Think in this... and forgibe me mi english...
bye

GT

Newton and Einstein.. their theories did not lost validate yet.. Newton's theories are just (in general, in common sense) limits of what u refer as Einstein's theories.. :) The wrong thing here is we just accommodate things according to our perception. Our intend here makes the point.

evrything is very real and matrix is just a movie!!!

It is most certainly not *just* a movie, silly. Evrythng s vry rl, spclly th mtrx.

Don't worry - everything is as real as being real can possibly be. Real.

It's like the Christians who say that nobody "owns" anything - it all belongs to God. But they aren't about to let people borrow their houses, so they actually do *own* the houses for all intents and purposes as long as *owning* means anything, whatever they may believe.

It's the same way with reality. The reality you can see and hear and touch is real - as real as it gets.

Of course, why you believe in it is another matter. There is no way to *prove* that reality is real. You accept that on faith in order to live a normal life. (faith is not a fundamentally religious concept, it is merely the assumption of the truth or falseness of information without proof)

The message of the Matrix movies *might* be that all of this kind of faith could be completely wrong. The main characters in the movie all have their faith in reality destroyed, but then they get a new worldview that is also faith-based, and end up right back where they started having faith that Zion is the real reality when they actually don't have a clue.

I have only thing to say:

Theoretically, anything is possible. Beliefs have everything to do with it. Its like the mystery of death, nobody knows until it happens to them