The Next U.S. President

I've been reading Micheal Moore's Dude, Where's My Country and can't help but notice that every alligation he makes is backed up by some journalist through way of the media (in the footnotes) about some of the bizarre things that Bush has done since 9/11. It seems that the movie Farenheit 911 was the movie version of this book, although it could be the other way around. The book extends the information to include more and almost all information is backed up by something that was published, including the date it was published. But I can't help but wonder how this election will turn out.

Watching the Republican National Convention is actually interesting, but I wonder how many people will be lead on dumbed down words about going after terrorists without an actual plan, without facts or figures. I'm pissed off so far at Giuliani because even he's lying now.

We are not in Iraq because of Saddam's ties with Osama. That much makes sense. So why is my country so ignorant to the republicans. Why are the republicans so ignorant of Micheal Moore. Know your enemy, I say. But they won't even watch the movie, most of them. I know it has a political agenda, but the questions Moore has been asking are fair. Any intelligent President would be happy to answer them if he did everything right.

I've seen Donald Rumsfeld say blatantly that having one intelligence agency over all others or one person appointed to oversee all of it would be wrong. That would be like a monopoly, and to have competing organizations is better because it keeps us moving ahead. But not too long after that, I saw Bush carelessly say that he did not support the swift boat ads, and in the same morning that he could care less what people think of him, he's too busy and doesn't have time to worry about what people think! Big mistake there, buddy. But then at the end of the conference, he said that he would be appointing an intelligence director with Rumsfeld standing right next to him! Rumsfeld was totally silent, and abiding to his master.

Just tell me what you will do for America. I ask that to both the candidates. I don't want politics, I don't want you to be charismatic and apeasing, I just want answers about what we're going to do to minimize the escalating economy disaster and remedy the situation in Iraq, a place we shouldn't be.

I just don't get it. Anyone else want to share questions, comments, concerns about this election?

This an interesting one for us non-americans. The President of the US is the most poserful person in the world and it is worrying that the calibre of people who hold political office, not just in America but the UK, is so low.

So mush of twenty first century politics seems to be based on image and spin, rather than substance and character. The peole running both of our countries are neither honest or intelligent enough in my opinion to hold such high office. I know that it is the easiest thing in the world to pour scorn on the politicl system and processes but it concerns me that we let people run our countries that we wouldn't let into our homes.

I agree... How the hell do these people become presidents anyway?! Bush is not, in any way, intelligent... Which puzzles me why he is running the United States of America... and as for Tony Blair.. (A.K.A - Big ears), hes not a stupid person (like bush), but he doesn't show many other differences from Bush... We need professional people running our countries, people that can make decisions that are good... Not bad. Now where the hell are these people?!

Well, watching Laura Bush give a speech after her idiotic daughters just makes me want to vomit. She's so damn fake it just hurts to watch her. The whole Bush family reminds me of my grandparents, they are so old fashioned and out of touch with society, probably even reality.

If Bush says the same things over and over again about a billion times, does it make them true? No, not really. Laura said that she met him at a backyard barbeque, and they married three months later, then campaigned for the first time while living in an Oldsmobile. She said that after the campaign even she wanted to vote for him. But that doesn't say anything about his character, it just tells me he's a good salesman. And you should never trust a good salesman, wouldn't you agree? Her whole speech was impersonal. And her daughters just remind me of that Rich Girls television show, or any rich girls I've ever seen on TV. I must say that I hope Bush gets his butt kicked in the presidental debate. I can't wait for that. As long as Kerry isn't too boring about it, it should be quite the spectacle.

Although I applaud the anti-Bush protestors in NYC, if I was to wage a bet as to who will win the election I'd put my money on Bush. There are simply too many stupid people in Amercia.

Despite being the only other incumbent to preside over a net-job loss since Hoover and a catalogue of other things against him that would cause any other country to realise something was sour with their BIG apple, he is STILL ahead in the polls! Coupled with the fact that 'Farenheit 911' is the most popular documentary of all time, it makes you wonder what is going on in the US, and perhaps the UN needs to send some people over to monitor the 'fairness' of their up-coming election...a la what they did to Chavez, just cos he's friends with Castro.

The American political arena is lacking in so many areas...this is most glaringly obvious in that the person the people vote for isn't the guy who gets elected...it's the people the public don't vote for who get the power to elect the president. What the fuck is THAT about?

Would explain why and how Bush became a president...

Let's not turn this into a bush-bashing thread, shall we N-2. Though Moore may suggest that Bush is in fact stupid, he does not actually say it and such accusations are better left unsaid.

A large majority of any nation, be it the USA, or the Netherlands is composed out of idiots. That meaning people who know less than jack about politics, don't care at all and vote because someone won three purple hearts because in their white-trash, tornade-bait lifes, where they have sacrificed two sons for their country, that means something.

Why there is so much significance put on military duty is a complete unknown to me. Perhaps it has something to do with a man who has not seen combat should not send others into war. If that truly is the reason, than I wonder what kind of war-lusted nation the US is. Sure, I can understand that you don't want to sacrifice your son to someone who himself does not even has the slightest clue what war really means, but I don't feel that any democratic election should center on war. I believe a democratic election should go on how they intent to run a country.

Kerry intends to improve the economy? Well, he'd better, wouldn't you think? Instead of supplying a proper program which they will follow, like it is found in most democratic nations, the US elections have been turned into a mud-slinging contest, and a contest of who can find the best and most fitting punchlines.

You see, the intelectuals in the US know what the democrats want to do and what the republicans want to do. Son number two from trailer camp "Paradise" somewhere in Texas has no idea what either party wants, and he only hears some punchlines which are as meaningful as the information supplied in a McDonalds Commerical. Instead of informing the US public about how the elections influence their lifes, they give the average american the illusions that when they vote, America will become better, greater, and will have a better position in the world of tomorrow. Son number two however, will not see the effects of the "Better, Greater, Foreign policy"- policy, but rather from the tax cuts/increases for the meat plant he works for.

There is no true relation between the average American and politics, and interest in it is lower than ever. People do not care anymore. The only people to whom these are very exciting elections are the intelectuals, who sadly only populate 99% of the globe.

After all, what would you rather have? The idea that everything will be okay tomorrow, or the notion that you have to go out and ask for the information on how to decide how your country will slowly be turned into that better American, and whether that better American is actually better for you, and not better for corporations.

Barbara Streisand for President!

Mr U

I dislike President Bush because he makes selfish decisions and obviously isn't running the USA properly....

-Rephrased upon request...

someone should just shoot bush full with lead.

or when he is going to do one of his stupid speeches, snipe his sorry ass. and shoot him between the eye's

or even better shoot a rocket at him, that should work

i'm not american (well you all know that) i don't give a shit about that other guy

but anyone is better then bush.

man i just saw on the new's, arnold schwarzenegger, calling to all the people to vote on bush, for another 4 years

man i used to be a big fan of him, but look what he turned into

and lol and don't get me even started about bush's butt boy blair. that sorry loser does everything that bush say's

Better still just pay me to go to America and assinate his sorry ass..... But anyway, back to the topic...

Yippie, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I'm moderately interested though, so can anyone give me a general idea of the pros and cons of both contenders? What's Kerry planning to do about the war in Iraq for instance?

And why in the hell do Europeans and Taiwanese care so damn much?

I gotta agree with Swampy about the spins. I followed the party propoganda last Israeli elections and damn, they were all so completely full of shit. Representative democracy just doesn't work when your representatives are legally allowed to lie to you. That's bullshit.

I believe when HU said:

Let's not turn this into a bush-bashing thread, shall we N-2.

He expected the same from everyone, and not just N-2. Cool it on the various ways to assassinate the president, FK.

I sure dee-diddle-did expected that. Thus, as we have got a majority of moderators agreeing here that there should be no more Bush-bashing, hehe, let's not do it anymore.

Oh, and freeyourmind, basicly, Bush promises tax breaks for major corporations, and intends to fry all terrorists on the planet... Kerry on the other hand seems a bit less war-orientated, but still wants to go on in Iraq. Also, he wants to tax corporations and give the money to the poor, kinda robin hood kinda guy ;).

Mr U

USA would be better WITHOUT bush. But anyway, I'll hold my anger and hatred of him back. :D

I don't like to discuss politics, but N-2, and excuse me for this, but you are definitely talking out of your ass.

I'm not a Bush supporter, and I registered Democrat for the election, but I believe you said you lived in the UK. Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but when was that ever the US? There might only be a difference in a word, but I think there is a huge ocean in between us. You have no idea what would be best for the US then. So in the future, so as to not sound like an idiot, I suggest repharasing that statement, as statements are seen as fact most of the time. Try saying "In my opinion, I think the US would be better without Bush." And then you say your reasons. That is called a discussion. People do that when talking about certain topics. It keeps people going, because if people don't communicate, then we cease to be humans.

So, think before you speak, and only say things you know about. Also, I don't know why a teenager such as yourself could hate so many things. Live life man, calm it down. By hating Bush, you just damage yourself. It doesn't affect anyone else but yourself. So, what I'm saying is, it is no use 'hating' him. Loathe is a much better word if you really can't stand someone. The definition is much better fitting as well.

Ah yes, but there is such a thing as travelling and research.... But I'm not going to argue.. I don't like talking politics either... I've rephrased the statement..

If the world still exists 16 years from now, elect me president and I'll fix everything up 1 time.

Ah yes, but there is such a thing as travelling and research.... But I'm not going to argue.. I don't like talking politics either... I've rephrased the statement..
Travelling and research do not denote knowledge and experience. Sure you might have travelled here, experienced a tourist's life, but that's not living and working here. Also, research doesn't always yield experience either. I could research all I wanted on the flamingo, read everything there is to know, but experience doesn't come from books. You actually have to be immersed in it. Same with a sport. I could read and watch everything there is to know how to play basketball, but I could still really suck at it, when I myself want to play it.

The truth is, you don't know what you are talking about. Now if we were talking about the UK and Tony Blair, and I said I hated Tony Blair, you would have the same argument against me.

You never really know a person. Try keeping your opinions with reasons. The way you rephrased it was dumb. There was no reason behind it. 'I don't like bush'... because? It is really rude to not like someone for no reason and there rarely ever is no reason.

God, you have to take everything so seriously don't you.. lol. I just rephrased it in a jokey way... If I wanted to be detailed I'd make a paragraph.. But I just can't be bothered. Actually, if you had a disagreement with Tony Blair, then I'd agree with you... To a certain extent (depends what the disagreement is...). I don't like to argue about politics.. It's all too confusing and for someone like me that has no interest in it, would loose badly if I even attempted to argue. So I'm not going to go down that road. I'll just delete the post. I understand what your saying about experience, but knowledge often is aquired from books. Your right, I don't live in the USA, I haven't experienced life in the USA like others may have.. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion... I don't have to give reason. If you hated Blair, I wouldn't ask you to produce a reason (mainly because I'd support you)...

You just hit the proverbial nail on the head. If you can't be bothered to type a response, don't post in this thread. It is quite simple. What you just proved to me is you like putting your two cents into everything that you don't even know or care about.

If you may have not seen, this is a politics thread. If you don't want to discuss politcs, don't post.

And yes, you can write down your opinion in a sentence and not give a reason, but you think others will acknowledge you opinion without reason? Not likely. It will likely be passed by as a shallow statement of your opinion, without much to be spoken about or cared about.

Quite right.. I shall cease posting in this thread...

N-2, we do want you in this thread, but try to read more than write until you form some actual opinions about this. I'm not trying to be mean or condescending, because even I'm still trying to figure this out. I know what I see on tv and read online, but that's all I know, and I made this thread in the hopes to see other opinions from people who might know something I don't. So glad to have you in the thread, it's not often that you get intelligent discussion about politics from people you know and love. :)


So back to the subject. I will offer my own opinions based on things I've seen to try and differentiate the candidates. I'm still looking at transcripts, but so far I've heard no actual facts, so I have to make inferences. Facts are very hard to prove, and even when provable, you have to wonder if it's really true or if it's been made to look that way.

Everything I watch on the news channels is spin. Most everything. Some things, like the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth is a non issue that becomes an issue because the news channels won't just drop it. Because someone is paying someone to keep talking about it. Why can't we pay people to talk about the bad things that Bush is doing? Because for one, we have more respect for our adversaries, two, we don't really have as much money as them, and three, we know that if we attack, we will be met with harsh criticism and slander by the Republicans. That's right, we're democrats. And we want the people of America to come first, and to be treated as equal, with equal opportunities for everyone, not just those who pass certain financial qualifications.

It's hard for me to believe that most republicans haven't seen Moore's movie. What could be the reasons for this? They don't have the time? They're not even an itty bit curious? Well... I think it's fear that their leader will dissapoint them. And there's actually nothing too bad about Bush in the movie, he's still a likeable guy, it's just that he's making all the wrong decisions. He's not the most qualified for the job, he's just the right kind of salesman to feed you crap and make you think you underpaid for it. Now, I myself can't exactly say what precisely he has done wrong, because I never met him and I haven't witnessed any of his wrongdoings. But what is appearant, is that he is not following the advice of qualified intelligent people at all levels, in all aspects. He seems to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it. And as long as he shows up with a smile on his face and ignorant of criticism, he'll keep demolishing our wonderful nation and change the outlook the entire world has on us to a negative perspective.

I keep looking for a transcript of Kerry's speech to the American Legion this morning, but I can't find it. If anyone has it please put a link here, but I sure can't find it. It came on live, then was over and I only heard one republican commentator trash it, then nothing much except small exerpts. How long does it take to put it on the web I wonder. It was actually very good, though considered bashing, I thought he chose his words (or actually his advisor did) very carefully, and delivered it in a good tone, showing only disdain for his opponent's actions, not character. That's a good thing. I was trying to find it and link it because I don't want to say something wrong, he actually brought up good points and I wouldn't want to mutilate them before reading it.

Okay, now that I'm on the first page with the quick reply...

Ou Be, I think you're referring to the electoral vote. And although I still don't know exactly how that works, I do believe my vote may count for nothing, but that won't deter me from voting my first vote ever. I passed in the last election.

HU, I think the reason so much military debate is being brought up is because we're currently in a war. That and both of our presidents served in the military at one time, albeit in different ways. Kerry has been in service in hostile fire zones, which is different than serving in the National Guard, which involved no conflict. I think it's one of the strongpoints for the Democrats because Kerry is thinking about how war can really screw up a lot of people, whereas Bush hasn't had the experience and blindly rushed into battle with little or no help from other nations, and while ignoring the advice of the people put into place to prevent war. NATO, the UN, people like that who try to keep order in the world. You are correct in that most people couldn't care less about politics, and will vote for something they saw on a commercial with something catchy than to actually go out and research the candidates. Most people don't have the attention span or the interest, which I find hard to believe, as most people I know wish for a better job and healthcare, and help paying their bills, and hoping that their factory doesn't close down so that they have to compete with everyone else in town for another job that pays less than the one you have now.

I asked an eleven year old yesterday, "If you could vote in this election, who would you vote for?"
Sarah: "Who's the people in the election again?"
Me: "George W. Bush and John F. Kerry"
Sarah: "Um... Bush."
Me: "Why?"
Sarah: "I don't like Kerry"
Me: "Is it because of his face?"
Sarah: "Well, yeah I guess"
Me: "Don't you realize that Bush doesn't care about you or your mom, and he's hurting our economy to the point where you will have less money to spend on the things you want to do?"
Sarah: "---"

And then I started talking about why I will be voting for Kerry and not Bush, and trying to tell her in a way that an eleven year old would understand what Bush has done by going through the Micheal Moore book. I also talked to her mother today, and she said she's probably not going to vote, but just in case she does, I gave her the same speech and talked about some things I'd seen on the news. I really really want what is best for this country, and I think that Kerry is more wise and down to earth, no matter how his demeanor or mannerisms are uncomforatble, I still think he knows better than Georgie what to do with this country. And it's almost like the administration of this board, when someone new steps in, the possiblities change and the amount of good you can do is limitless, simply because you're the new guy. Ready and willing to fix what needs fixing.

I'm with HU on this one...you definitely seem to have progressed from the simple Michael Moore School Of Politics and gained a wider view of all things Elephant...not that Moore is bad, he simply has a propensity for self-promotion which creates it's own special brand of bias...

As for N2 and the other tool...you make me sad.

Freeyourgoddamnmind - I'm not Taiwanese, I just live here.

NMN - American politics affect the world, therefore we all have an opinion on it. In Europe and pretty much the rest of the whole world, news programs do not focus entirely on home-affairs...there is something called 'foreign'-affairs, which deals with happenings outside your own country...Also, not all Americans are as insular as yourself and you can actually learn a lot about a country by talking to it's people.

As for Kerry, I think he is an idiot too...How can he STILL be so close in the polls to Bush when you look at ALL the ammunition he has on the current incumbent!?!?!?! - The war in Iraq is a fucking mess - despite him declaring it OVER a long time ago, Afghanistan is still insecure, he dodged military combat thanks to his Daddy's pals in pertinent places, the economny is a wreck after so many successful Clinton years, his soldiers imitate the behaviour of the Commander-in-chief by being sadistic torturers, he rapes the poor and gives head to the rich, he disreards scientifically-corrobortated reports on the destruction of the environment in favor of reports signed by Spice Girls and other loonies, he STILL hasn't signed the Kyoto agreement AND he's intent on sucking the planet dry of oil instead of looking for viable, long-term alternatives! Kerry SHOULD be just about guaranteed the election based on those failings of Bush! Maybe the kingmakers don't want him to win, because if he does then they have to wait 8 years till they could annoint Hillary Clinton...A woman with balls, a brain and the popularity to wipe that stupid smirk off of Bush's monkey-face.

As for N2 and the other tool...you make me sad.

Wow, where do I begin on you then...

Well, I'm glad I make you sad... It's a darn sight better than making you happy or angry.. lol :D

I keep looking for a transcript of Kerry's speech to the American Legion this morning, but I can't find it. If anyone has it please put a link here, but I sure can't find it. .

well, here are at least a few quotes..http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0901.html

personally, I'm fed up with politics - especially american politics. It's just annoying. Perhaps it's not even the possibility that Bush could stay in office which is causing pain but rather that there is no real alternative. Kerry is..well, he isn't better than him and the good ol' argument that "everyone is better than Bush" won't wash with me anymore. I supported Kerry just a few months ago but he's the same liar and it's annoying. :rolleyes:

When I turned on TV (oh yeah, sometimes I do..:D) and they showed the Republican party convention there is one thing that I noticed. The republicans are trying to justify everything with patriotism. And no matter who speaks..it's always the same crap: "America is strong...God Bless America" etc They raise their hand, the flag is behind them.. :wtf: I must laugh when I see that...

Apparently that strategy still seems to work when you look at the polls.


The american election campaign is corrupt. It's not about politics anymore, it's just about some perky slogans as HU mentioned. I don't call that what's going on right now an "election campaign"..it's a hate campaign on both sides. Is that the usual case? Republicans trying to find some piquant things that they can use in the smear campaign and Democrats doing exactly the same thing... Sorry but I just haven't seen that before in a european election.

Oh, and freeyourmind, basicly, Bush promises tax breaks for major corporations, and intends to fry all terrorists on the planet... Kerry on the other hand seems a bit less war-orientated, but still wants to go on in Iraq. Also, he wants to tax corporations and give the money to the poor, kinda robin hood kinda guy ;).

Mr U
I just read Smithfan's link and it seems Kerry is intending to cut taxes and look out for the middle class. So still quite capitalistic... I'm not sure how this differs from Bush... does Bush honestly want the favour of just the very rich?More detail from any of you guys on the specifics of the economical issue would be very welcome :)

The war on Iraq issue is to me even more confusing. Kerry's opinions on it don't differ from Bush's, but he claims that he's more capable. That's not really something that the average citizen can go on... Yeah, Bush messes up his speeches, but I'm still not convinced he must be an idiot for it... Even if Bush did screw up, who's to say Kerry won't worse? I'd have thought that the two contenders were supposed to base their campaigns on their beliefs... after all, they have plenty of advisors to right their littler wrongs...

Val, you seem to be very strongly in favour of Kerry, or at least against Bush. Is this only because of the economical issue? How is Bush making your situation bad? What is he focusing his efforts on instead?

Ou Be, that's not the point. You're not American and therefore it's hard for me to see why you and many other non-Americans here are so fiercely opposed to Bush. I understand the moral concerns, but I just can't figure out why that couples with so much emotion. I'm opposed to a lot of things, but when they have zero to do with me I don't get emotional at all about it... anyway, it's not a topic for discussion, it's just something I find funny.
You too seem to be talking about Bush's incompetence rather than his intentions. I guess that's a viable reasoning too, but I just don't see how you'd know that Kerry would do better...

Smithfan, you sure there are no smear campaigns in Europe? I know that the stuff we see here in Israel during elections is much more extreme and shameless than what I've seen of the American propoganda... maybe it's because there are bigger issues on the line for America and Israel than there are for many European countries...

smith_fan, thanks so much for that. That pretty much summed up his speech. The only thing I can think of to add was that when he started talking about what Bush has done wrong, he said, "I know it's difficult to hear the truth" or something to that effect. Also, I think you are dead on about the way the Republicans will only talk about patriotism and 9/11. No real answers, just making the country feel the way they did on 9/11, very unified out of fear and anger.

OBLh, I don't think either president has really presented a true plan for what they actually plan to do with the next four years. The closest thing I've heard is what Kerry said in the speech on Sept. 1st about instituting healthcare immediately. I heard that he already pushed for healthcare changes that will reduce costs for many people here (not just veterans) in 2006, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

FYM, I think that speech by Kerry Sept. 1st was actually better than the one he gave at his own convention. For the first time I wasn't just liking him because he wasn't Bush, but because he was telling me things I wanted to hear. But when I think like that, I also notice that Republicans look at Bush the way I do at Kerry, that he will magically make things wonderful and safe. I think it's selective hearing, where you hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe. The opinions I trust the most on the news channels are from the people who will point out the faults of both candidates, not just praise one and discriminate against the other.

One of the reasons I'm reading Michael Moore is because he keeps bringing up things from the past that I didn't know, things that I don't think anyone else will bring up. I feel like I'm playing catch up, because I never really cared about history, politics, or anything that happened before, but in politics, your history is everything. It's the most deciding factor to what you might do in the future. I know Moore has his own agenda, so I hate to quote him, because I don't want to be a follower of anyone really.

Does anyone remember anything weird that happened in the past, on the news, that no one talks about today? I can remember when George W. had a black eye. What was his exuse? Something about a pretzel? I can't remember what the excuse was, but I do remember thinking that perhaps one of his staff or his wife was very controlling and had a nasty temper. It's things like that which don't get brought up ever, but they really did happen. I hear Moore bring up some of the more negative parts of past history, and I don't know whether to just accept what he has to say or what, because I could never prove or disprove it.

Ou Be, that's not the point. You're not American and therefore it's hard for me to see why you and many other non-Americans here are so fiercely opposed to Bush. I understand the moral concerns, but I just can't figure out why that couples with so much emotion. I'm opposed to a lot of things, but when they have zero to do with me I don't get emotional at all about it... anyway, it's not a topic for discussion, it's just something I find funny.


Aha! Now I get it! You're saying ridiculous things to try and provoke me! Well it won't work, you @!#$@!&%$%^#*%@*&^#)@*&*@&*(#&*%&#%&*%!

I find it rather amusing that you can't understand why non-Americans feel so opposed to Bush when what he does affects the WORLD!!!!!!!!!!! Seeing as the rest of us live in this world, we have desire to see it prosper, flourish and be a good place to live...as opposed to a fucked-up, war-torn, oil-raped, disaster zone where no-one has respect for the next man/woman or beast...

I see where Obe is coming from here. Seeeing as how America is the most influential country in the world and all. By being the leader of that country what you do literally affects the whole world. Not just america.

I find it rather amusing that you can't understand why non-Americans feel so opposed to Bush when what he does affects the WORLD!!!!!!!!!!! Seeing as the rest of us live in this world, we have desire to see it prosper, flourish and be a good place to live...as opposed to a fucked-up, war-torn, oil-raped, disaster zone where no-one has respect for the next man/woman or beast...

I agree.

After the finale of the RNC tonight, and then Kerry's emergency press conference in Ohio to point out what a loser Bush has been in the last four years, I am definitely an avid Kerry supporter. I just love the man, what more can I say? :)

Bah. Well, I want the world to prosper too, and if I was convinced Bush was the ultimate evil then I would have been fiercely opposed to him too... but what I don't get is all the emotion attached to it... did you hate Saddam Hussein with such a passion too? or Bashar Assad? Or that N. Korean Dictator whose name I don't remember? Neither those guys or Bush truly affect your life in Taiwan, so it's beyond me why you should get angry about this. And if was trying to provoke you I wouldn't have said that this was not a topic for discussion and was just something I was wondering about.

Val, are we agreed on that the two candidates' opinions do not substantially differ? If so, why are you so convinced that Kerry would be more competent? What if he makes a complete mess of things?

He can't possibly make a bigger mess of things than Bush already has, but I do agree that it's possible. Don't take what I'm saying here as fact, but from what I hear and I read, Bush has done the following: His administration can be quoted as saying to intelligence officials to find any link necessary between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. When they presented the evidence to the world (Condy Rice was on tv talking to the news programs about it) the evidence was not spell checked and was pulled from web sites including some term papers with evidence that was more than a decade old. Rice was forced to admit this on one news show. When we invaded Afghanistan, that was justified, but in the process we allowed many terrorists to flee that country. When we invaded Iraq, we did capture Saddam Hussein, but in the process have killed somewhere between 7,000 and 12,000 innocent Iraqui civilians using the smart bombing techniques implemented by the Clinton administration based on bad knowledge of where Saddam might be. In the process, Halliburton (Cheney formerly being the C.E.O. of this company) has had millions of dollars worth in government contracts... I'm not sure for what, oil production, a natural gas pipeline? I'm not sure what the contracts were for. And we still occupy Iraq, while Iran and North Korea are multiplying the amount of weapons of mass destruction (I don't know about weapons, they might be nuclear, but might be other types too) because our forces are spread so thin in Iraq. President Bush admitted that he was overwhelmed by what they are dealing with now that the war has been 'won' and can't seem to find a way to back out. Meanwhile, here at home (the U.S.), companies are being given tax relief to send jobs overseas, we americans are losing jobs, 4-5 million of us have no healthcare and no hope of healthcare. Republicans said in the RNC that job growth is up, but it's only up from what it was 12 months ago. That's not counting the loss of jobs overall. Bush has given a tax cut to only the 1% richest Americans. He's making us poor people pay the bills for the wealthy to get tax cuts. Weird, but I did hear someone try to explain this to America on a news program one night. He said that the richest pay the most percentage of the taxes (because they make more they pay a lot in taxes compared to the poorer of us) and therefore should get the most back. But how many more millions does one person need so that someone else can't even afford health care? It's just sick the way this administration tries to cover everything up, and it seems they're trying to kill the poor people who sign up for the military. Let me just say that the American troops will come home and there will be violence here at home, it happens after every war. Stories of men killing their cheating wives, stories of people shooting other people over simple disagreements. It's hard to go to war and come back without being throroughly changed. I'm worried about how the rest of the world views us. I'm worried that the oil will run out in the future and my ancestors, or perhaps even children/grandchildren, will live in a world that isn't ready to switch from one type of energy to another. I'm just plain scared that this lifetime or the next, we will suffer because a lunatic billionaire saw 9/11 as his opportunity to do whatever he wants in the name of 'terrorism'.

Kerry, on the other hand, has been in war, and I know that he knows first hand what will happen if he sends troops to any country. He talks about training and sending more Special Forces, than newly recruited kids who are thrown into a bad situation. He also respects the people who are in our military now, because he is a war hero himself. He wants what is best for every American, not just the wealthy and connected. And I like that he is backed by Bill Clinton, one of the smartest men who ever lived, and THE best Democrat of our time.

If you can't understand what is wrong with Bush, then you should give up your interest in the political game.

If you prescribe to an isolationist view, then of course you lack the fundamental requirements needed to understand global politics.

The World = Many people
USA = BIG country
US President = global-influence
Bad US president = detrimental effects on our lives..as citizens of The World.

Kerry is merely the only other viable option, as there isn't a frogs chance in France that Nader would get elected.