Guns and the Training Matrix

I've seen a lot of interesting posts about characters (Neo, Smith, etc) "moving" inbetween Matricies. I also saw a very interesting question about how the envelope that Bane delivered to the real world got into Neo's hands (if it was, indeed, the disk like object given to David).

Can/How do characters move 'objects' inbetween Matricies?

Consider: In the first Matrix movie, we saw Neo training in a bunch of "training Matricies" that operators such as Tank fabricated in order to teach him how to interact in the real Matrix. When Neo decides to try to save Morpheus from the agents, he begins in "white screen" training Matrix and requests, "Guns, lots of guns."

We then cut to the great scene in which Neo and Trinity, using all of this hardware they acquired from the training Matrix, I assume, blast apart the "soliders" in the Matrix.

How did they move those guns from their "training construct" to the real Matrix????? If they have that kind of power already, they should be able to do major damage to the Agents simply by "conjuring up" all sorts of weapons, etc.

I think in the white screen place, whatever you're carrying there carries over to the Matrix as well.

But that makes you wonder: why wouldn't they carry guns whereever they went? That way they wouldn't always have to use hand-to-hand (even if it is cool as hell).


How the card from the Oracle got from the Matrix to Zion, I also wonder.

That's what I'm saying -- forget about the disk/card in M2 and just think about the first movie, and I'm still confused! :)

If they can carry stuff from the training matricies with them when they hack into the "real" Matrix, I think every time I would freakin' "carry" an Abrams tank with me every time I went into the Matrix, or maybe a cloak of invisibility, or a force field generator, or something.

:D

There are called contructs, programnes. I believe I was a programned package that was brought back. Think of how Trin took the tracking device out of Neo? How it changed to what it really was when they through it out of the car?

Think how we didn't see the package only that A package or programne was sent from the matrix to the Real.

how would a tank have helped in m1? it wouldn't have. they take what they need. they 'hack' the matrix, making these weapons appear. I don't see a problem with it.

The info brought to neo from the oracle was stored in the device he gave them, that physical device was NOT transferred.

I believe that that room is like the "bootstrap" as it is called on a computer.. that is the very first bit of code that is read by the computer that tells it what to do next,,, IE: boot dos. or windows or whatever...

so by starting with a clean slate.. you take your first bit of code
then boot up the system.

so each time they are loaded into the matrix.. the operator rewrites the code to be appropriate for that situation...


if you went running around with Abrahms tanks.. I think the agents would kinda notice you quickly... after all.. they are everyone and everything that is plugged in.
also,, the tank wouldn't do you any good against a agent..
if they can dodge a AK 47,, they can dodge a tank.

that white room,, in the construct now has me thinking of the white room at ZION..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

"Think how we didn't see the package only that A package or programne was sent from the matrix to the Real."

?...?....??????

If the package can go from the Matrix to the real world, how come all their fancy jackets and sunglasses don't come with them? ;)

And that doesn't answer our question -- how come they could bring all those guns with them in one scene, but even in Reloaded they still depend on regular hand-to-hand.

:D

Knew the "tank" comment would get some reaction -- I'm not saying I would bring a tank, of course (I was trying to make a sly pun by hinting that Tank (the operator) could just give everyone a tank (the weapon), but it was poorly crafted, sorry).

I LOVE the idea of the bootstrap, that is a elegant answer, but it still makes me curious why more of the rebels aren't using their bootstrap advantage, so to speak, to even up the odds a little bit.

If the operator can rewrite the Matrix to include the people jacking in to have guns on them, why can't they hack it so that someone has a gun at another time? Like when Morpheus is fighting the Agent on top of the truck; why not hack and give him a gun?

They can't bring into the Matrix things that haven't been invented, such as stealth generators etc.

And, they look all fancy in the Matrix because thats how they see themselves in the real world aka the matrix. If you watch M1 Morpheus has a big term for it, can't remember it off hand.

And they always do have guns with them, BUT they aren't always good, hence the hand to hand combat. Lets not forget, Agents can dodge bullets, therefore guns useless against them. Same thing for Smith, guns useless once more. And finaly, the Twins can become "invisible" and let the bullets go through them, making guns useless once more.

They HAVE the guns, they are just pointless to use them. Hence the hand to hand combat.

They DO go into the matrix heavily armed. They always have guns on them. And they have stashes in hidden in there besides (mouse pulled tommy guns from a box). But what good are they if the agents just dodge 'em?

This is true, this is true. Well, I'm convinced now. Thanks ;)

Friends,

If the agents can dodge bullets, let's not lie to ourselves and say that rebels use hand-to-hand combat because the guns are ineffective.

If someone can dodge a bullet, they sure as heck can dodge a punch, no matter how fast. (unless you're Neo, of course ;) )

No, the reason that the agents AND the rebels use guns, I believe, is because NONE of them have freed their mind to the extent that Neo has.

I have always wondered "Why do the agents use guns in the first place? Why do the rebels? Why not make laser beams come out of your eyes, for example?" The answer is that the rebels have not freed their minds enough to be able to think this way -- the only way they know to fight is to take the rules of the Matrix (guns are good for killing) and bend them a bit (I will get LOTS of guns). The agents, being noncreative programs, adhere to the rules also because, after all, they have to preserve the illusion of the Matrix as a real world.

If the agents were truly "free" and the rebels were truly "free", then go ahead, shoot me a billion times and I'll just "will" the bullets to bounce off me. They aren't that free though -- they still believe that bullets (though they know them to be nonreal) can hurt them. Those are the rules.

But no one, besides Neo, has the ability to "break" the rules like that (fly at superspeed, bend space, etc). All the other players can just bend the rules a bit. (move really quickly, punch concrete walls, momentarily defy gravity)

I think the reason the agents and rebels always end up fighting hand to hand is simply because none of them has the mental prowess (humnans because they are humans, agents because they are not creative and they are programmed to conform to some degree to the world around them) to bend the rules for anything other than their own bodies. At their very best, they can make their own digital projections of themselves do pretty amazing things, but they cannot, like Neo, control things oustide of themselves (like bullets).